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  #1  
Old 04-16-2010, 01:09 PM
jonniesharpy jonniesharpy is offline
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Default Cymbal Stacks?

Hey, im brand new here! and i already have a question.

I've noticed these Max Stax that Mike Portnoy uses, which seem to cost the earth.
Ive seen alternatives (meinl generation x?) and they seem to sound awful in comparison.

Anyone have any experience of making one or buying a cheaper alternative that sounds good?

Ive considered getting some cheap splashes, Tambourine zils, Butterfly clips and a drill and seeing how much destruction i can do!

Any ideas/responses would be awesome!
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Stacks?

Hey,
I don't know about the cymbal stacks that Mike Portnoy uses...or the meinl generation x ones either.

But I made my own stack simply by putting a 16" crash on a cymbal stand, and an 8" splash on top (no felts or anything in between). If you use decent quality cymbals it should have a good sound quality (i use A customs). The 16" crash and 8" splash has a nice trashy sound and fast decay.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:39 PM
jonniesharpy jonniesharpy is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Stacks?

So i guess if i just get a crash and a splash with the same size bell and put nothing between they choke eachother? sounds perfect! do the size/weight of the cymbals make a difference to how fast they choke once you hit them? Youve opened up a world of experimentation for me! thanks for the fast reply too!
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:34 PM
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MikeM MikeM is online now
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Default Re: Cymbal Stacks?

I stack broken crashes. I have a Paiste Signature 17" Full Crash sitting right on top of an 18" K Dark Crash. Both have chunks missing. The bell of the Paiste is smaller than the Zildjian so they don't choke, but since they're both broken they cut out pretty quick. Makes for a great china substitute that's trashy, loud, and can be used as a ride. I've been using that exact pairing for 17 or 18 years now (only cymbals I never replace - in that same time period I've owned 9 pr hats, 6 rides, and probably 20 crashes).
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:53 PM
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Grace :) Grace :) is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Stacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonniesharpy View Post
So i guess if i just get a crash and a splash with the same size bell and put nothing between they choke eachother? sounds perfect! do the size/weight of the cymbals make a difference to how fast they choke once you hit them? Youve opened up a world of experimentation for me! thanks for the fast reply too!
no problem.
yes, the two cymbals choke eachother and give a very trashy sound. I'm not sure exactly how the size or weight affects the decay of the cymbals, but from experimenting with my cymbals, i've found that putting an 8" splash on a 14" crash decays a bit faster than a 16" crash with an 8" splash. so i guess that the bigger the cymbal on the bottom the slower the decay. (although i don't think it makes a MASSIVE difference until you get to bigger sizes like 20" crashes or bigger) I also found that a 16" projection crash (which i think is a heavier cymbal) with the same 8" splash on top takes quite a lot longer than the normal 16" with the splash to decay. so i would guess that in general heavier cymbals don't choke as quickly.

I saw an interesting video on youtube of a drummer explaining their kit and they had a mini china (might have been 12" or 14") upside down with a 10" splash on top. that sounded great too. you just need to experiment with different cymbals and see what sounds good.

also on a cosmetic note, if you stack a splash on top of a crash i've found that it rubs the logo off the crash cymbal, where the edge of the splash touches the logo of the crash. So if you're bothered about keeping the logos nice and fresh then you might want to get some older cymbals off ebay, or as the other poster said use broken ones.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:17 PM
jonniesharpy jonniesharpy is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Stacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace :) View Post
no problem.
yes, the two cymbals choke eachother and give a very trashy sound. I'm not sure exactly how the size or weight affects the decay of the cymbals, but from experimenting with my cymbals, i've found that putting an 8" splash on a 14" crash decays a bit faster than a 16" crash with an 8" splash. so i guess that the bigger the cymbal on the bottom the slower the decay. (although i don't think it makes a MASSIVE difference until you get to bigger sizes like 20" crashes or bigger) I also found that a 16" projection crash (which i think is a heavier cymbal) with the same 8" splash on top takes quite a lot longer than the normal 16" with the splash to decay. so i would guess that in general heavier cymbals don't choke as quickly.

I saw an interesting video on youtube of a drummer explaining their kit and they had a mini china (might have been 12" or 14") upside down with a 10" splash on top. that sounded great too. you just need to experiment with different cymbals and see what sounds good.
Wow thats a lot of stuff to think about, but i think im ready to get out there and experiment, ive got a Sabian AAX 16 crash that i hate the sound off, il grab a splash and add it to it and see how it sounds! thanks very much indeed for your advice!

oh, and the upside down china/splash thing sounds cool too!!! il try that too. So it seems the moral of this story is the Mike portnoy Max Stax at 329 really isnt worth it!...

... we'll see ;)
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  #7  
Old 04-16-2010, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Stacks?

just try stacking different sizes of cymbals, whatever you have or can get your hands on to see which combinations you like.

I can't comment on the Mike Portnoy stacks...but my understanding of a stack has always been that it is one cymbal on top of another, so i would guess that any extra cost to the MP stax above that of buying the cymbals individually (not in the stax set, but putting them together yourself) is paying for having Mike Portnoys name on the cymbal (unless they aren't the same as this method of stacking). But yeah, stacking this way sounds good, so definitely try it before you splash out 300+ for something
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:22 PM
sd9er sd9er is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Stacks?

Anyone have cracked splashes (partially around the bell)? Take the bigger splash, invert it (like a china) and put it inverted on a smaller upside-down splash....
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  #9  
Old 07-13-2012, 03:31 PM
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Nickropolis Nickropolis is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Stacks?

I'm using a stack at the moment, it's got a very quick decay similar to a Sabian Chopper. 8" B8 splash over 14" AAX mini china over broken 16" AAX stage crash, all inverted.

In general, as the cymbal on the bottom of the stack gets heavier and bigger, there will be more wash, more mass vibrating the whole thing. If you have a heavy cymbal on top, you will get more of a dead sound but this can be used for closed hi hat sounds or wherever else you think it might fit. Crashes, splashes, hihats and chinas seem to be the choices for most stacks but nothing says you can't use a ride or whatever you want.

I've used just the china and splash together, it's brighter but the decay isn't as quick because there's less brass on the stand. Also used the 16" crash over an 18" crash ride both inverted, that was too loud for me but sounded every bit as good as many chinas I've heard.

The Portnoy stacks sound fine, but to ME it seems a little pricey for something that I can easily do myself. Not saying nobody else is allowed to buy them of course, if you really like that specific sound then by all means buy 'em up.
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