Hi-Hat Edges

Kopi · #1 04-13-2010, 04:35 PM

Hey guys, I'm looking at some new hi hats but I want to learn a little more about them first.

I played a set of sabian hats a week ago and loved how they sound (I think they were AAX, I'm using really old, really budget hats now). I noticed that they had like a waved edge.

Is this popular amongst better hi hats? What is this called, and what sort of options are there like this in the 150-250 dollar range?

Cheers!

Fuo · #2 04-13-2010, 04:40 PM

They sound like AAX X-Celerators

Chazz · #3 04-13-2010, 04:44 PM

Paiste makes a 'Sound Edge Hi-Hats' with the bottom wavy..
They may have been one of the originator's of that type...
It is a preference to what sound you like!

alparrott · #4 04-13-2010, 06:29 PM

All of the big cymbal companies do this, but Paiste did it first with their Sound Edge (Bonzo played them back in the day). Zildjian calls it Mastersound, Sabian calls it X-celerator, and Meinl calls it Soundwave. (Sounds like a bunch of Transformers.)

The idea is that the cymbals don't choke up full of air when being closed, thereby preventing a solid 'chick' sound. Whether the cymbals are actually wavy profiled or hammered specially around their edges, there are gaps left for air to escape.

RollingStone000 · #5 04-13-2010, 06:37 PM

All companies do that now a days. Zildjian has the "Mastersound", Paiste the "Soundedge"; Sabian the "X-Celerator", and Meinl, Diril, Istanbul, etc. it's a common feature among all (good) cymbal companies.

The idea behind it is that it prevents "airlock" between the hats. Meaning it allows the air to continue circulating around the cymbals instead of getting trapped and creating pressure in between the void of the top and bottom hat when quickly closing the hats with your foot.

mrbling · #6 04-13-2010, 06:49 PM

yay i have these. the 14" aax ones great hi hats. parrot hit it on the head all the top companies make em ive also played the mastersounds yet prefere the sabians.

Ruok · #7 04-13-2010, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kopi

what sort of options are there like this in the 150-250 dollar range?

Cheers!

You can find used Paiste 3000, 2000 and 2oo2 Sound Edges (all top-notch pro cymbals) for that price almost always on ebay. Zildjian and Sabian hats with the wavy bottom should also be found on ebay in that price range as well. Some may actually be new or in like-new condition. I understand Paiste Alpha Sound Edges brand new are quite nice for a pro sound at a smaller price tag, though I've never heard them myself.

mrbling · #8 04-14-2010, 01:05 AM

yer used is the way to go check ebay i got my x celerators for £130 so around the $200 mark, yes? basically new only thing that i noticed that they had been used was sweat on the bottom cymbal that had splashed up. not so good consition now though, look black from some angles.

Kopi · #9 04-14-2010, 04:48 PM

Mastersound, X-ccelerator, Soundedge, gotcha. Cheers guys!

I won a small competition through a cymbal company called "Amedia Cymbals", I don't know how many of you have heard of them, but I get 30% off all their products. I've heard from a few that they make some great cymbals, here is their catalogue.

I can get a set of hand made hats from these guys for about $120 CAD. If they're decent cymbals I would think about trying them...However I'm not sure if they have some sort of edge design like the above mentioned from Zildjian, Sabian, Paiste...

nickg · #10 04-18-2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruok

. I understand Paiste Alpha Sound Edges brand new are quite nice for a pro sound at a smaller price tag, though I've never heard them myself.

that's what i'm currently using and love 'em!!!

Strangelove · #11 04-19-2010, 03:02 AM

And we wonder where they got the idea for the wavy edge bottoms:

http://naplesseashellcompany.com/giant_clam_shell.jpg

bobdadruma · #12 04-19-2010, 03:20 AM

Instead of waves some bottom hats have numerous small bumps around the edge. The Zildjian K series readily come to my mind. My personal favorites are the K Custom Hybrid
series. They are not cheap, even used. But they are excellent. Most of the best hats have a way to prevent air lock. I also played the Paiste 2002 sound edge hats for many years and I also like them very much.

larryace · #13 04-19-2010, 04:18 AM

I suffer from airlock fairly reglarly. If I drilled holes in my bottom HH cymbal, would that prevent airlock? I have no wavy bottom HH cymbal.

madidus · #14 04-19-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace

I suffer from airlock fairly reglarly. If I drilled holes in my bottom HH cymbal, would that prevent airlock? I have no wavy bottom HH cymbal.

Some Sabian hihats have 3 holes in the bottom cymbal to prevent airlock. I have the AA Fusion Hats and have never experienced airlock.

jodgey4 · #15 04-24-2010, 01:07 AM

I'd like to throw in my view. From what I've seen and heard, holes in the bottom hat do the same thing as the sound edges as far as letting sound out, but they shouldn't effect the sound, perhaps dry it a bit. I have 2002 15" SE's, and my new 13" Traditional Medium Lights came today... and I can't play them because there's a TV watching party over here! Anyways, as the common folk know, when you close with hi-hats with with your foot, they make a sound, then that's it. The 15" SE's when closed, produce a biting 'chunk..........(r)ing' sound. Not unpleasing, rather musical actually, but it's still there. Also when you hit them closed, you get the same ring for a bit (especially when closed really tight), and the biting attack stays when they are open. I think its great, it helps it cut. Hope that helps.

WayneWickman · #16 04-24-2010, 01:14 AM

Lets be realistic..has anyone experienced "airlock"? I played New Beats for 20+yrs and K's for the last few and never had airlock. It does more for sound than prevent airlock. Listen to both types, buy the one you like more.

MikeM · #17 04-24-2010, 01:30 AM

I've definitely experienced airlock and I hate it. It happens whenever the top and bottom cymbals have no angle between them, usually from the bottom cymbal tilter screw coming loose. So I'll be playing along on my ride cymbal, keeping nice quarters with my left foot, and all of a sudden, "hey, where'd my hi-hat pulse go? I'm still playing them..." Then I have to reach under that hats where the screw is and fiddle with it while trying not to dent up the time.

I had a Quick Beat bottom for years and never had that problem. Now I have New Beats and it happens from time to time. But I don't care for ripple-bottom cymbals too much, so I put up with occasional air lock.

MikeM · #18 04-24-2010, 01:43 AM

I've definitely experienced airlock and I hate it. It happens whenever the top and bottom cymbals have no angle between them, usually from the bottom cymbal tilter screw coming loose. So I'll be playing along on my ride cymbal, keeping nice quarters with my left foot, and all of a sudden, "hey, where'd my hi-hat pulse go? I'm still playing them..." Then I have to reach under that hats where the screw is and fiddle with it while trying not to dent up the time.

I had a Quick Beat bottom for years and never had that problem. Now I have New Beats and it happens from time to time. But I don't care for ripple-bottom cymbals too much, so I put up with occasional air lock.

TTNW · #19 05-09-2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace

I suffer from airlock fairly reglarly. If I drilled holes in my bottom HH cymbal, would that prevent airlock? I have no wavy bottom HH cymbal.

I know this thread is old but I thought I'd add my 2 cents. Since there were some unanswered questions.

Drilling holes in your bottom cymbal will prevent air lock and as long as the bottom cymbal is on the medium/heavy to heavy side it shouldn't change your hats sound noticeably.

Quote:

Originally Posted by madidus

Some Sabian hihats have 3 holes in the bottom cymbal to prevent airlock. I have the AA Fusion Hats and have never experienced airlock.

Zildjian Quick Beats are like this too, except with four holes. Same result. I have a pair 13 A Quick Beats and the interesting things to note about the bottom cymbal besides the holes is that the profile of the cymbal is like a flat ride. No bell and slight bow to the edge. I got a 13 K top to replace the A top. The A top is lighter, with a pronounced bell and wider lathing. The K is not as bright, with more hammering it's drier and it being just a little heavier pairs up nicely with the flat slab of the bottom QuickBeat.

This makes them very responsive for hats that are on the heavier side for their 13" size. I can get a nice sloshy sound without having to open them so much that they sound too obnoxious. Great sound when played quietly and you can bash them and they will still sound sort of civilized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jodgey4

I'd like to throw in my view. From what I've seen and heard, holes in the bottom hat do the same thing as the sound edges as far as letting sound out, but they shouldn't effect the sound, perhaps dry it a bit. I have 2002 15" SE's, and my new 13" Traditional Medium Lights came today... and I can't play them because there's a TV watching party over here! Anyways, as the common folk know, when you close with hi-hats with with your foot, they make a sound, then that's it. The 15" SE's when closed, produce a biting 'chunk..........(r)ing' sound. Not unpleasing, rather musical actually, but it's still there. Also when you hit them closed, you get the same ring for a bit (especially when closed really tight), and the biting attack stays when they are open. I think its great, it helps it cut. Hope that helps.

This is exactly why I love my 14 A Mastersounds. They can do it all.
The recent A Custom Rezo series has half circle cutouts along the bottom cymbal's edge. Interesting combination of the edge and air-hole styles.

When I checked them out at Guitar Center, I thought that they accomplish the same things as the SE or MS style of edge feature. I did think that they might be a little dangerous for me because I have been known to get a little wild and sloppy and I've busted up my knuckles on the edge of my hats. The Rezo are corner sharp on the bottom edge. They could be filed down and rounded off. Not a big deal.

In any case another example of the an anti-airlock design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeM

I've definitely experienced airlock.. ..usually from the bottom cymbal tilter screw coming loose.. .. I don't care for ripple-bottom cymbals too much, so I put up with occasional air lock.

All in all this is the reason why the bottom cymbal tilter is probably the preferred method. To a certain extent, it's a bit of a compromise to drill holes or crimp the edge of hat bottoms. Bottoms that have a good size bell, a bit of a bow for good projection and unchanged edge contact with the top sound better to me.

That's probably why you rarely hear anybody say they don't like New Beats. They just sound so good, airlock or no airlock.

I drilled two 1/4 inch holes in the bottom my son's ZXT Rock Hats. Just use a nice sharp new drill bit and take your time and you won't hurt your cymbal in the process. Two holes are plenty and if you do it about an 1 to 1 1/2 down from the bottom of the bell it won't really change the sound too much.

I must admit that those hats rock. They're heavy, clangy, slow, brash, super bright and terrible for delicate or funky playing. They rock for playing like an animal and not worrying about bashing away. The band can turn up as loud as they want and I can cut through with those, so it makes it a lot of fun to drag them out once in a while.

In a nutshell, Larry, you could drill the holes and be done with it. It will safely solve your problem.