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  #1  
Old 03-27-2010, 11:28 PM
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Default Angles, Angles, Angles...

So I had an idea.

Most pieces of a drum kit are placed generally to the same point, which is normally your belt or your stomach. This is an ergonomic given, depending on how high the drum/cymbal is, but if you imagine an entire plane coming off the surface of the cymbal/drum, then it's easy to apply to your generic set-up.

But, there are obviously those who defy this idea(see Megan White), most of the time with Cymbal angles.

So, just to see what's up with this, post pics of your drum kits in profile, or a picture that effectively shows the "planes" of your set-up.
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Old 03-28-2010, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

I'll get some up in a bit. My toms are pretty angled for a number of reasons, I really dislike the "all flat" design.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

If you just scan the Your Gear section you will see everyones set ups. That's what the section is for.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

Okay so here's mine:



It's a matter of ergonomics. It's MUCH easier to be able to hit the snares by going "forward" than "out and then down". Not to mention with those toms I have two options if I want them flat: put them really spread out or really high up. I don't like either of those options. When I play I like to have everything kinda near each other. It's a lot easier to do fast fills if I don't have one tom all the way over heeeeeere, and then one over theeeeere, you know?
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Old 03-28-2010, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

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Originally Posted by MisterMixelpix View Post
It's a matter of ergonomics. It's MUCH easier to be able to hit the snares by going "forward" than "out and then down". Not to mention with those toms I have two options if I want them flat: put them really spread out or really high up. I don't like either of those options. When I play I like to have everything kinda near each other. It's a lot easier to do fast fills if I don't have one tom all the way over heeeeeere, and then one over theeeeere, you know?
Yeah, I can see how that works out. My set-up is based on that idea, except it's all flat.
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:15 PM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

Mind showin' a picture? Like I said, if I tried to make my toms flat, I'd run into one of two problems: they'd have to be up too high for my tastes, or I'd have to spread them out to lower them, neither setup is particularly attractive.

One of the reason they're angled is so I could effectively lower them, y'know? Since I can't sink the toms INTO the kick, I angle them toward me.
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

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Originally Posted by MisterMixelpix View Post
Mind showin' a picture?
Link to pics of my set-up is in my signature.
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

Ahhh, I see. I don't think I could have the toms that close to me either. It's one reason I almost wish I'd bought one of the 2010 sets of Superstars: the toms are a lot shallower, so I can mount them above the base a little flatter and lower.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

It's interesting what you said Coldhardsteel about everything being placed towards a point. I've never given it any thought, but not that i do i've realised that my drums and cymbals (possibly not my floor tom) are all pointing at my midriff. For example my snare is lower than that point and is angled away from me.
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

As much as it is an ergonomical matter, it is a technical matter as well. Most drummers I know and see who have sophisticated technique have rather flat tom angles, most beginners (see lots of them as a teacher) have them pretty angled.

The goal is to have your sticks land on the surface as flat as possible in order to have them bounce back with as much energy as possible (like a basketball i.e.).

I see some beginners have their drums angled ridiculously, but at the same time their sticks are more or less horizontal when they hit the head - so they won't really have much bounce.

I see others with the same angles whose technique 'match' the drums, meaning their sticks aren't the same lineage as their forearms at all, which on one hand justifies their tom angles, but on the other hand it's a rather unfortunate, limited hand technique.

My personal setup: As I continue to improve, I see my tomes getting flatter over the years. They aren't horizontal, but much much flatter than in my beginning.
I suspect the total flat drum setups (like in some punk bands, flat cymbals, flat drums) to be a visual choice rather than a functional.

Have you ever seen Rodney Holmes' setup by the way? He is quite a little guy, his snare is low and flat, his toms are also, but the batter head of the snare is like the same height as the reso head of his small tom! It's ridiculous, I can't even imagine how he manages to play that fast between those two drums! (he does though)
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:47 PM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Matthias View Post
As much as it is an ergonomical matter, it is a technical matter as well. Most drummers I know and see who have sophisticated technique have rather flat tom angles, most beginners (see lots of them as a teacher) have them pretty angled.

The goal is to have your sticks land on the surface as flat as possible in order to have them bounce back with as much energy as possible (like a basketball i.e.).

I see some beginners have their drums angled ridiculously, but at the same time their sticks are more or less horizontal when they hit the head - so they won't really have much bounce.

I see others with the same angles whose technique 'match' the drums, meaning their sticks aren't the same lineage as their forearms at all, which on one hand justifies their tom angles, but on the other hand it's a rather unfortunate, limited hand technique.

My personal setup: As I continue to improve, I see my tomes getting flatter over the years. They aren't horizontal, but much much flatter than in my beginning.
I suspect the total flat drum setups (like in some punk bands, flat cymbals, flat drums) to be a visual choice rather than a functional.

Have you ever seen Rodney Holmes' setup by the way? He is quite a little guy, his snare is low and flat, his toms are also, but the batter head of the snare is like the same height as the reso head of his small tom! It's ridiculous, I can't even imagine how he manages to play that fast between those two drums! (he does though)
I must say I agree strongly about this.

I've said this many times before, but I based my set-up on the idea of a set of marching quint toms, and it's helped my technicality a lot(not to mention forcing me to think in new combinations for fills). But I've also noticed that since it's practically one plane, that it's easier to play because my hands aren't constantly changing position.
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Old 03-29-2010, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Matthias View Post
Have you ever seen Rodney Holmes' setup by the way? He is quite a little guy, his snare is low and flat, his toms are also, but the batter head of the snare is like the same height as the reso head of his small tom! It's ridiculous, I can't even imagine how he manages to play that fast between those two drums! (he does though)


Toms are actually very angled... He's a guy that could use an 18" kick very well I think, it makes placement a lot easier.

I play with slightly angled drums. I'll make pictures tonight.
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Old 03-29-2010, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

I have to take exception to the statement that advanced drummers have flat toms. I've seen sooooo many metal bands with amazing drummers and angled toms.

Anyway, I'd LIKE flatter toms, but with their depth and placement, it's either angle 'em or leave them in locations I really don't like. Maybe if I get a rack I can fix the problem...
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Old 03-29-2010, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMixelpix View Post
Anyway, I'd LIKE flatter toms, but with their depth and placement, it's either angle 'em or leave them in locations I really don't like.
This is one of the reasons I absolutely HATE "power" toms (12x10, 13x11, etc.). I'm a short guy at 5 feet 7 inches, so I've never been able to position the rack toms on a "standard" kit in a way that suits me. I don't even use the 12 inch rack tom on my drumset because it's an inch deeper than the other one and makes me have to reach higher than I would like. 8 inches is the deepest I ever want any rack tom to be.
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Old 03-29-2010, 05:41 PM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

I'd love flatter rack toms, but its just not possible with my current setup (usual 2up1dn 5 piece, very similar to MM's).

I never considered myself short (I'm like 5'9" or 5'10"), but apparently I am... all of the thrones and snare stands I've owned just barely go low enough. So when you mount 10/12" toms on a 22" BD and you're not tall enough to sit over them you have to angle them so that you can hit them properly...

I have been considering getting the Tama cymbal stand tom mounts (cheaper than a rack) so that I can get the toms closer to me, and therefore over the edge of the BD which SHOULD allow me to get them lower and flatter... but I'm still within my first month of drumming so rack tom efficiency isn't my main concern right now (I need to stop myself from buying gear before I actually learn how to play).
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMixelpix View Post
...Anyway, I'd LIKE flatter toms, but with their depth and placement, it's either angle 'em or leave them in locations I really don't like. Maybe if I get a rack I can fix the problem...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifter in the Dark View Post
This is one of the reasons I absolutely HATE "power" toms (12x10, 13x11, etc.). I'm a short guy at 5 feet 7 inches, so I've never been able to position the rack toms on a "standard" kit in a way that suits me. I don't even use the 12 inch rack tom on my drumset because it's an inch deeper than the other one and makes me have to reach higher than I would like. 8 inches is the deepest I ever want any rack tom to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuo View Post
I'd love flatter rack toms, but its just not possible with my current setup (usual 2up1dn 5 piece, very similar to MM's).

I never considered myself short (I'm like 5'9" or 5'10"), but apparently I am... all of the thrones and snare stands I've owned just barely go low enough. So when you mount 10/12" toms on a 22" BD and you're not tall enough to sit over them you have to angle them so that you can hit them properly...

I have been considering getting the Tama cymbal stand tom mounts (cheaper than a rack) so that I can get the toms closer to me, and therefore over the edge of the BD which SHOULD allow me to get them lower and flatter... but I'm still within my first month of drumming so rack tom efficiency isn't my main concern right now (I need to stop myself from buying gear before I actually learn how to play).
Biggest remedy for this, if you're not going to go my route, is indeed to get a rack.

Racks allow toms to not only be separated from the bass drum with more combinations that stand mounted ones, they also allow angled toms to go deeper because they won't necessarily be directly over the bass drum. I think if you want it like that, it's worth the money to be able to play the way you want.
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMixelpix View Post
I have to take exception to the statement that advanced drummers have flat toms. I've seen sooooo many metal bands with amazing drummers and angled toms.

Anyway, I'd LIKE flatter toms, but with their depth and placement, it's either angle 'em or leave them in locations I really don't like. Maybe if I get a rack I can fix the problem...
Yes I thought of that too, it gets really difficult when you have 22" bass drum or even bigger, you practically can't do with flat toms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank0072
Toms are actually very angled... He's a guy that could use an 18" kick very well I think, it makes placement a lot easier.
Wow, you're right! Should have taken a picture of his set when I saw him live... Toms were a lot flatter there than on your pic I'm quite sure. The one on your pic must be some 5 years old I suppose, from the MD fest '95.
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Old 03-30-2010, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: Angles, Angles, Angles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhardsteel View Post
Biggest remedy for this, if you're not going to go my route, is indeed to get a rack.

Racks allow toms to not only be separated from the bass drum with more combinations that stand mounted ones, they also allow angled toms to go deeper because they won't necessarily be directly over the bass drum. I think if you want it like that, it's worth the money to be able to play the way you want.
I'm definitely buying a rack down the road. After my pedal on Thursday, a rack is next. Unless the guy buys my snare, then it's a snare and THEN a rack, LOL.
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