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  #321  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:14 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

Jay, I know that right from the beginning you and I knew what Abe was up to!

The "Number One Song That Defines Jazz" thread comes to my mind.

The main question is What we knew and When we knew it! Congress wants to ask us some questions!
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  #322  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:16 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Jay, I know that right from the beginning you and I knew what Abe was up to!

The "Number One Song That Defines Jazz" thread comes to my mind.
Oh my goodness, Bob, that brings back memories!
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  #323  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Originally Posted by Deltadrummer View Post
Do you think that it is somewhat of a myth that each generation comes to believe, that everything is in decline? They said that at the turn of the century too, and with jazz in the 1920s.
I don't believe that that's a myth at all. I've been hearing that musically the sky is falling since I first picked up sticks 30 years ago, and I'm sure sure I'll still hear echos of it from my grave.

I stopped worrying about the sky falling years ago. Music just changes and morphs. That's what it does. There has always been a lot of crap around, but there have always been gems in every era to be found by those willing to seek them out.
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  #324  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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. Metal is different because it is about selling and marketing music; it is a music made for mass consumption;]
That has to be the single dumbest statement I've ever read on this site.

Thousands of bands out there would disagree with that.

There are 101 variations of metal, and most of them are NOT made for mass consumption.

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where as for quite some time jazz has been a music that is made by many purely for the artistic and expressionistic aspects of the genre,
Again, you're only discussing bop, post bob, and ignoring the tons of rather commercial jazz that existed long before bebop came along.

Geez, people, read a history book already.
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  #325  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Hey Bob! What about setting to the tune "Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin'"? Put a little Kenny G horn on that sucker and you're all set!
No, it would be a disgrace to Steve Perry!!!! :-P

Er, wait...Steve Smith played on that track, and he's considered a jazz guy now. Does that make it a legit track now?

Can we dial up the Deen Castranovo version?
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  #326  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:24 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Oh my goodness, Bob, that brings back memories!
It does, It certainly does!
Remember when I said that Stairway To Heaven could be a jazz song if one followed the definition of jazz in the dictionary?
Crazy Fun Times Man, crazy Fun Times! I had a Blast and I know that you did also.
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  #327  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Metal is different because it is about selling and marketing music; it is a music made for mass consumption; where as for quite some time jazz has been a music that is made by many purely for the artistic and expressionistic aspects of the genre, and truthfully musicians who make popular jazz know the difference.
That's just plain silly. Anything that is released by a record company is about marketing and selling music. Take Esperanza Spalding, for example.

And although I don't know much about metal music I can guarantee that those musicians who play it, some of whom are incredible players, know the difference between crap metal music and the metal music that is about the "artistic and expressionistic aspects of the genre."
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  #328  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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That has to be the single dumbest statement I've ever read on this site.

Thousands of bands out there would disagree with that.

There are 101 variations of metal, and most of them are NOT made for mass consumption.


Again, you're only discussing bop, post bob, and ignoring the tons of rather commercial jazz that existed long before bebop came along.

Geez, people, read a history book already.
I have a master's in music history and have done doctoral work in music history, so I've read quite a few history books already.

Yes, but we've been down this line already. The fact is that jazz became a music of purely musical explorations, and that has happened for metal as well. so jazzers get all bent out of shape when you call them snobs for loving that part of it, but look how bent out of shape you got when I suggested that metal was not an artistic endeavor.
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  #329  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:33 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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It does, It certainly does!
Remember when I said that Stairway To Heaven could be a jazz song if one followed the definition of jazz in the dictionary?
Yes I do. That's back when I was being a real prick. I'm sure my response was indignant and arbitrary.

We go through things, you know? And then we see how foolish, how defensive and stupid we've been.

It sure is nice to come out on the other side of all that and just be able to actually dig on life and people without lugging around all that old decrepit baggage!
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  #330  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:42 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

If you go back to my post number 46 I think that I gave away the goat back then.
That is when I let it slip that I was just messing around.
We are all Tools in one of Abe's jazz threads!
I said it then.
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  #331  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

But Abe has been upfront with that all along.

I am sorry that I am actually trying to have a reasonable discussion on concepts that some may think arbitrary and others may not; but whether or not you think someone is being a prick, well I never got banned, you're in here to, maybe being more careful; but you do have a point of view. And you're both still pricks.:)

Anyway, people should read the posts, after all that, he still went for it.
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  #332  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:50 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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If you go back to my post number 46 I think that I gave away the goat back then.
Well, why didn't you give me the goat? I've been wanting to have a goat in my back yard ever since I moved into this house.

I would have paid for shipping, you know.
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  #333  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:51 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

Ken, The whole thing was one of Abe's jokes right from the start.
I saw it in the first post.
I laughed my ass off!
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  #334  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:52 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Well, why didn't you give me the goat? I've been wanting to have a goat in my back yard ever since I moved into this house.
I thought that you were in on it!
Perhaps a bear named Cocktail Frank?
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  #335  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

But Ken, jazz was about rebellion in much the same way as rock was. Then it developed its own traditions. Personally, I've never cared a bit about tradition in any part of life. As a bit of an outsider (by inclination, not choice) tradition has always represented to me a sense of rejection, and with a healthy dose of LCD. To me "tradition" = "the bastards who have dissed me" lol

So my sympathies have always been with progressivism and traditional stuff to me has only been a tool - prior learning from which I can pick and choose the bits I like - but nothing to feel terribly fond of. Pat's reverence is utterly foreign to me. That's insider talk, not my talk.

In that sense I'm maybe not an ideal person to talk about this issue because I cannot understand the concept of reverence for tradition. It has always completely passed me by in all areas of life.

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Originally Posted by Deltadrummer
It's funny because folks say the 1980s were the demise of great music. Older folks say it was the 70s and Led Zeppelin especially. Then when that rock and roll came in in the 50s it destroyed everything. Do you think that it is somewhat of a myth that each generation comes to believe, that everything is in decline? They said that at the turn of the century too, and with jazz in the 1920s.
How true! I do think that the 80s heralded the final takeover of The Music BUSINESS, as opposed to The MUSIC Business. It had been heading that way for a while. The 60s and early 70s were times of unbridled creativity, discovery and experimentation, although there was still lots of pap in the top 40. In 1970 The Doors released Morrison Hotel and Led Zep released LZ III. The same year Tony Orlando's Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree dominated in the No 1 spot, with Jud Strunk's Daisy a Day in #2 spot.
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  #336  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:01 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

My God, I just poured myself a glass of Russian Vodka with ice and I can't drink it because I'm re-reading these post. I'm laughing so hard right now!
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  #337  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:02 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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That's it Polly. I think you put the nail on it again. The recording was the last straw for Pat..

I think it would be interesting to talk about a rock equivalent, now that rock is becoming enshrined in the sacred halls. When the Brits first started doing blues the aficionados complained; but the artist themselves weren't the ones complaining. There was ELP, which Lester Bangs said ruined rock and roll. Prog rock defiled the 'sacred' profanity of rock and roll. It was a war crime. LA Metal comes under the heading of inter-sexualizing the genre. So even though purists decried it, at home, everyone was happy.

But really, rock and roll is about rebellion. Can you do anything to defile it?

It's funny because folks say the 1980s were the demise of great music. Older folks say it was the 70s and Led Zeppelin especially. Then when that rock and roll came in in the 50s it destroyed everything. Do you think that it is somewhat of a myth that each generation comes to believe, that everything is in decline? They said that at the turn of the century too, and with jazz in the 1920s.
"Geez Bob !!! You're......Like.....A Rolling Stone....or something."
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  #338  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:04 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

Stan, I'm sorry if you were offended in any way by all of this.
I wouldn't want to see you be hurt.
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  #339  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:07 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

Ken, I honestly wanted to let you in on this but you were so perfect that I just couldn't!
I apologize to you most of all!
You were truly just a victim that was caught up in this.
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  #340  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:07 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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But Ken, jazz was about rebellion in much the same way as rock was. Then it developed its own traditions. Personally, I've never cared a bit about tradition in any part of life. As a bit of an outsider (by inclination, not choice) tradition has always represented to me a sense of rejection, and with a healthy dose of LCD. To me "tradition" = "the bastards who have dissed me" lol

So my sympathies have always been with progressivism and traditional stuff to me has only been a tool - prior learning from which I can pick and choose the bits I like - but nothing to feel terribly fond of. Pat's reverence is utterly foreign to me. That's insider talk, not my talk.

In that sense I'm maybe not an ideal person to talk about this issue because I cannot understand the concept of reverence for tradition. It has always completely passed me by in all areas of life.



How true! I do think that the 80s heralded the final takeover of The Music BUSINESS, as opposed to The MUSIC Business. It had been heading that way for a while. The 60s and early 70s were times of unbridled creativity, discovery and experimentation, although there was still lots of pap in the top 40. In 1970 The Doors released Morrison Hotel and Led Zep released LZ III. The same year Tony Orlando's Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree dominated in the No 1 spot, with Jud Strunk's Daisy a Day in #2 spot.

True, and there was a lot of feminist rebellion in there as well. A lot of the rebellion in jazz was about segregation. But these guys knew their music. I think that it is amazing many of them could play like they did by ear.

Rock rebellion was pure as well, esp when it was about the war; but even when punk was about expressing class conflict. it really became rebellion about noting though. lol

Maybe you would understand this. I actually thought that after all we discussed, this guy would have the respect to realize where I was coming from when I goated him. But he tells me to read a history book, after all the posts where I think if anything one should realize I know my music history.
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  #341  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:09 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Ken, I honestly wanted to let you in on this but you were so perfect that I just couldn't!
I apologize to you most of all!
You were truly just a victim that was caught up in this.
I actually enjoy it because it helps me to keep up on the ideas and Polly is a plethora of just coming up with the great insights that keep me thinking.
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  #342  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:11 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

Where is Abe? Its time for him to come clean!
He made this mess, He should help make amends also.
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  #343  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:13 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

Abe, Fool me once, Shame on you! Fool me twice...
I can't stop laughing!!!
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  #344  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:15 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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I have a master's in music history and have done doctoral work in music history, so I've read quite a few history books already.

Yes, but we've been down this line already. The fact is that jazz became a music of purely musical explorations, and that has happened for metal as well. so jazzers get all bent out of shape when you call them snobs for loving that part of it, but look how bent out of shape you got when I suggested that metal was not an artistic endeavor.
I never called anyone a snob. Quick, find one post where I called anyone a snob?
You won't find it. Nice try, but it failed.

Me bent out of shape? Naw, I'm not into yoga. :-P
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  #345  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:19 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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I never called anyone a snob. Quick, find one post where I called anyone a snob?
You won't find it. Nice try, but it failed.

Me bent out of shape? Naw, I'm not into yoga. :-P
It was not a personal attack. I actually thought we were 'discussing' something not being involved with personal attacks.
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  #346  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:23 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Maybe you would understand this. I actually thought that after all we discussed, this guy would the the respect to realize where I was coming from when I goated him. But he tells me to read a history book, after all the posts where I think if anything one should realize I know my music history.
This guy? Me? come on, just say it to me.

I don't see a single post where I claimed to not realize where you are coming from.
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  #347  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:25 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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It was not a personal attack. I actually thought we were 'discussing' something not being involved with personal attacks.
I don't see any personal attacks anywhere in this thread until you made the snide comment about me. Which I don't get, because at no point did I take you to task.
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  #348  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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This guy? Me? come on, just say.

I don't see a single post where I claimed to not realize where you are coming from.
Forget about it!
Everyone is a "Tool" in a Jazz thread!
He didn't mean anything by it.
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  #349  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

So...what kind of drum sticks are you people using?
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  #350  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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This guy? Me? come on, just say.

I don't see a single post where I claimed to not realize where you are coming from.
Dude, I made that statement and everyone jumped on me for it. And I confessed I was baiting you, and you still fell into it.You insinuated that I should read a history book. After the discussions we've had, do you really think I haven't read a history book?
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  #351  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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So...what kind of drum sticks are you people using?
What ever I get for 3 bucks at the Guitar Center holiday sales. I'm not picky.
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  #352  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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So...what kind of drum sticks are you people using?
Zildjian 7a
how about you?
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  #353  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:29 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

I've been playing Vic Firth 5A for, oh, I guess about two or three years now, maybe not that long. Anyway that's what I'm playing now. I used to play Vic Firth 7As.
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  #354  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:32 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

I play two up and one down. I also like my 16x18 bass drum and my 13x5.5 Panther Maple snare.
My God, I still can't stop laughing!!!
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  #355  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:34 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Where is Abe? Its time for him to come clean!
He made this mess, He should help make amends also.
ROFL. Yep, if that boy isn't here with a poop scooper soon we're gunna be buried under it all. The good news is this thread's been going for a while and every now I feel some green shoots are popping up out of the compost.

Bob, I use Vic Firth Kidsticks these days! Remember that cover of Little Wing I posted where you critiqued my hand technique? You'll see 'em there :)

BTW, what's the record thread length so far?

Ken, that metal comment was nice bait. Maybe what we need is for Nickelback to have a major hit covering Paranoid?
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  #356  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:34 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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I play two up and one down. I also like my 16x18 bass drum and my 13x5.5 Panther Maple snare.
My God, I stil can't stop laughing!!!
One up, one down for me, Bob. I'm a simple guy. I fish, I swim, I build fires.
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  #357  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:37 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Originally Posted by con struct View Post
One up, one down for me, Bob. I'm a simple guy. I fish, I swim, I build fires.
I hunt deer, and I like to watch fires!
The US Army taught me that. At least I don't hunt people anymore!
My son is in the Army now and he likes to hunt people as much as I did way back when. He has to follow Rules of Engagement now. We didn't have to! We killed whoever we wanted to!
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  #358  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:39 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Originally Posted by Deltadrummer View Post
Dude, I made that statement and everyone jumped on me for it. And I confessed I was baiting you, and you still fell into it.You insinuated that I should read a history book. After the discussions we've had, do you really think I haven't read a history book?
Well, I'm reading this in-between mowing my lawn, dealing with my 3 year old and my 5 month old, so forgive me if I don't keep tabs on whom is whom around here. I didn't realize I was supposed to do a search and read every previous post of yours to know what you do or do not already know.

You made an ignorant statement, I called you on it, and now you're back tracking.

Why you suddenly want to make this personnel is beyond me. I've said nothing to you directly before you suddenly decided to come at me with this "bait".

Baiting people is also in poor taste, and against the rules
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=35130
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There is no trolling, flaming, or insulting of others allowed. Do not make comments that are sexist, racist, pejorative, obscene, inflammatory, spiteful, abusive, threatening, or in any way insulting or disrespectful to any individual or group of people. Do not allow disagreements to become personal. Attacking or insulting another forum member rather than disagreeing with their point of view will not be tolerated. If you do disagree with someone else's opinion, show your intelligence by arguing your position calmly and respectfully.
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  #359  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:44 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
I hunt deer, and I like to watch fires!
The US Army taught me that. At least I don't hunt people anymore!
This has been a beautiful day, and this evening I took a beer out to the back yard and I looked at all the trees turning green and listened to the birds singing, and I decided to make a fire.

We have a big oak tree in our back yard and there were a lot of branches that had been blown off during the winter, so I took those branches, broke them up and made a fire.

I sat out there as the sun went down, until all I could see were the silhouettes of the trees against the grey-blue sky. It was so quite and peaceful, and I tended my fire and drank my beer and I said to myself, "what a wonderful world."
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  #360  
Old 04-02-2010, 04:44 AM
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Default Re: Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Well, I'm reading this in-between mowing my lawn, dealing with my 3 year old and my 5 month old, so forgive me if I don't keep tabs on whom is whom around here. I didn't realize I was supposed to do a search and read every previous post of yours to know what you do or do not already know.

You made an ignorant statement, I called you on it, and now you're back tracking.

Why you suddenly want to make this personnel is beyond me. I've said nothing to you directly before you suddenly decided to come at me with this "bait".

Baiting people is also in poor taste, and against the rules
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=35130
Like I said, truthfully, I thought you would understand where I was coming from. I didn't make an ignorant statement> And you were the one who chose to become disrepectful so I've had it, end of story.
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