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  #1  
Old 03-08-2010, 06:58 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default How good is this?

...

Surfing the tube this morning, I came up with this old Erskine clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdzwe...eature=related

Given all the groovechoptechiquefeel conversations here, I thought this was a nice little all-in-one demo.

In light of the recent Steve Gadd debate, do you see chops here or you dont? curious what people think.

...
*PS- sorry mods, would you like to move this to the drummers section?

Last edited by aydee; 03-08-2010 at 07:39 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-08-2010, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
...

Surfing the tube this morning, I came up with this old Erskine clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdzwe...eature=related

Given all the groovechoptechiquefeel conversations here, I thought this was a nice little all-in-one demo.

In light of the recent Steve Gadd debate, do you see chops here or you dont? curious what people think.

...

*hangs slack jawed in awe*

that's it right there. Dont bother speaking on it, just post that clip everytime someone starts some noise. Best of both worlds with an intuitive understanding of taste and texture thrown in for good measure.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

I was alright. It lacked that get down, gritty, street level, stuff that Stanton Moore plays.

Too sterile for my taste.
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  #4  
Old 03-08-2010, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Anything but sterile IMO. I love that singing snare line. Wonderful expression, almost independent of the substrate groove, yet bouncing within it's boundries. Chops? well yes, but only sufficient to offer the level of control necessary to execute the piece.
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Sterile? I'm not sure about that one SF...
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  #6  
Old 03-08-2010, 09:48 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHUp9...eature=related
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Awesome, loved it!
Plus, in addition to all you mentioned, it's got hair! :D
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  #8  
Old 03-08-2010, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Perfect example of Erskines ability to play cleanly, and dynamically. I definitely felt like I was watching a demo of someone depicting what human beings refer to as "drumming" though.

Erskine looks like a bus driver, and I second the opinion of sterility. In fact, I feel like I can forgo my upcoming vasectomy after watching this video. I love and respect Peter Erskine's ability and contribution to drumming, he is an awesome player and I have lots of other videos and recordings of him killin' it, but it feels like he shot this video the same day as his grandmothers funeral or something. It feels empty and sad, but brimming with technical prowess.
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Little mo Nawleanes.

The man himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6g32...eature=related
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Last edited by Steady Freddy; 03-08-2010 at 11:18 PM.
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  #10  
Old 03-09-2010, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: How good is this?

apples & oranges

Yeah, Stanton killed it for sure - now play it or, how many of us got it? Stanton was entertaining us w/ chops, skill & knowledge.

Erskine on the other hand (as boring as it might of be) was stripping it down to show us something as a starting point.
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  #11  
Old 03-09-2010, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: How good is this?

In that clip of Peter, I wouldn't call that chops as much as musicality. He's so beyond confident in his time feel, and I get the feeling he's of the mindset that he doesn't need to "impress", which frees him up to think in a more musical sense than a technical sense.
Oh how Stanton kills though...
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  #12  
Old 03-09-2010, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Foot View Post
apples & oranges

Yeah, Stanton killed it for sure - now play it or, how many of us got it? Stanton was entertaining us w/ chops, skill & knowledge.

Erskine on the other hand (as boring as it might of be) was stripping it down to show us something as a starting point.
That's a good point.

Here's Stanton breaking down one of his grooves. Maybe a better comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIxxB4c_T-k
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  #13  
Old 03-09-2010, 01:30 AM
RobertM RobertM is offline
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Default Re: How good is this?

Wow, Stanton's floor tom sounds like a low-tuned Yamaha Recording Custom with a pinstripe or clear head, and not a Gretsch Custom. Sounds "thuddy," not open and full like a Gretsch drum usually does.

I agree with SF: Erskine's a very good drummer, but this video does not demonstrate his best groovin'. Check out Erskine's playing on "Hackensack" from Andy Summer's Green Chimneys album: he's got some groove on there.

For ultimate Stanton groove, I recommend either "Go Go" off of Vintage Reserve or "Launch" from Garage-a-Trois's Emphasizer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Freddy View Post
Little mo Nawleanes.

The man himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6g32...eature=related
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  #14  
Old 03-09-2010, 01:52 AM
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Default Re: How good is this?

I don't really like it that much... This Stanton solo is great

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6g32SElGkg
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  #15  
Old 03-09-2010, 02:02 AM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Just to keep things fair.

Here's one of Erskine's with some serious phat dripping off it.

I love this second line kinda stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V70BY...eature=related
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  #16  
Old 03-09-2010, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

After reading all your comments, I had to watch that OP Erskine clip again. I know I'm out of my technique depth here compared to most of you guys, but what you perceive as sterility, I perceive as space. To me, the piece breathes. I imagine the groove sitting in with other instrument voices. In that context, it sounds superb to me. Maybe my simple rock brain is easily pleased.
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  #17  
Old 03-09-2010, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Sometimes less is more, I really enjoyed the relaxed muscality of that piece. I feel, occassion, that there is too much focus on speed.

I haven't heard of Erskine before, I'm going to check out more of his stuff.
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  #18  
Old 03-09-2010, 01:44 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: How good is this?

Couple of points of note here, guys.

First, I think this clip is in the context of a stripped down instruction video and not a performance and therefore might perhaps be seen to be lacking in phatt, fizz, juice, mustard etc for some..

Second, the point I was trying to make originally was that in my opinion, I think it takes tremendous chops, which were very tightly reined in and controlled, to do what he did here.

Sure, Stanton is awesome greasy in this context and a great example, as I'm sure are millions of of other fine examples of grooves that are dripping with technique and 'chops' which arent obvious.

I guess I'm trying to equate the words chops & technique with the understanding and mastering of rhythm and not necessarily just with speed and agility around the drum kit, which often becomes a popular interpretation.

...

Last edited by aydee; 03-09-2010 at 02:01 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-09-2010, 02:49 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

The "sterility" could have to do with the drumsound in this clip I think.
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  #20  
Old 03-09-2010, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Second, the point I was trying to make originally was that in my opinion, I think it takes tremendous chops, which were very tightly reined in and controlled, to do what he did here.


I guess I'm trying to equate the words chops & technique with the understanding and mastering of rhythm and not necessarily just with speed and agility around the drum kit, which often becomes a popular interpretation.

...
Totally agree. I'll go with my original post to back that up.
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  #21  
Old 03-09-2010, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post

I guess I'm trying to equate the words chops & technique with the understanding and mastering of rhythm and not necessarily just with speed and agility around the drum kit, which often becomes a popular interpretation.

...
Good point Aydee... I never really think of second line drumming as super fast or a chops playground. This type of playing relies so much more on feel than speed, and as indicated in the original vid it is hardly dependant on a keen fashion sense :)
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Couple of points of note here, guys.

First, I think this clip is in the context of a stripped down instruction video and not a performance and therefore might perhaps be seen to be lacking in phatt, fizz, juice, mustard etc for some..

Second, the point I was trying to make originally was that in my opinion, I think it takes tremendous chops, which were very tightly reined in and controlled, to do what he did here.

Sure, Stanton is awesome greasy in this context and a great example, as I'm sure are millions of of other fine examples of grooves that are dripping with technique and 'chops' which arent obvious.

I guess I'm trying to equate the words chops & technique with the understanding and mastering of rhythm and not necessarily just with speed and agility around the drum kit, which often becomes a popular interpretation.

...
What I thought was missing in the first clip was the lack of feel and not chops. It didn't capture the feel of second line drumming. Second line can be played simply and still get the proper lilt for that groove. That's what was lacking. It seemed to watered down and sanitized to me.

And yes. We're back to feel vs.technique. Oh No.........................................
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  #23  
Old 03-09-2010, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Not insulting the drummer since this is just one clip of his, but I was really, really underwhelmed. Nothing too interesting happening, either on the groove side or the chops side. Seemed more like a basic lesson than a demonstration.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

In fairness to him, I know that I've heard recordings of myself from 15 years ago that make me cringe. Its like looking at family photos and seeing some of the funny haircuts and mustaches from the 80's.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Hell, I'm embarrassed of drum videos I recorded two months ago.
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Peter Erskine is one of the great living masters of the instrument, so I'm all over anything he plays- rating him like he's an episode of the Simpsons doesn't do anything for me. This piece is an educational sketch illustrating a musical approach to soloing- maybe the wrong place to look for drum porn.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:23 PM
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  #27  
Old 03-09-2010, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
...

Do you see chops here or you dont? curious what people think.
Nope, this is straight up groove...
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:23 AM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
Peter Erskine is one of the great living masters of the instrument, so I'm all over anything he plays- rating him like he's an episode of the Simpsons doesn't do anything for me. This piece is an educational sketch illustrating a musical approach to soloing- maybe the wrong place to look for drum porn.
Haha...that about sums it up.
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  #29  
Old 03-10-2010, 08:03 AM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
... the point I was trying to make originally was that in my opinion, I think it takes tremendous chops, which were very tightly reined in and controlled, to do what he did here.

.... I guess I'm trying to equate the words chops & technique with the understanding and mastering of rhythm and not necessarily just with speed and agility around the drum kit, which often becomes a popular interpretation.
That makes sense to me, Abe. You're talking about him having the headroom to give him the time, feel and coordination to do what he did the way he did it.

This reminds me of the money beat thread. You could have Steve Gadd play a moderate tempo money beat and then you could have, say, me play it. There'd be an obvious difference in the authority, groove and dynamics - no doubt also in tone production, consistency and anything else you care to name too :) I've seen this when playing along with Wy when he gave me some lessons. It's pretty sobering.

Monster players play simple things monstrously well.
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Monster players play simple things monstrously well.
Now that's a nice quote! :)
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  #31  
Old 03-17-2010, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

Quote:
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Monster players play simple things monstrously well.
Hell of a sentence :- )
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  #32  
Old 03-17-2010, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: How good is this?

thats how i see econd line new orleans stuff, laid back, lazy, but the nuances must be perfect, and is a very tough style to play, i know this is'nt erskine, but just a short solo, no real chops until the end, but the piece is genius, especially getting the left hand buzz roles perfect, check it out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cOhJB1vDKw

lovely kit too by the way!
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