Benny greb, letter system, what is it good for actually ??

[Overg]

HI,

I bought the Benny greb DVD , while he is really amazing drummer, a fun guy, and nice DVD to watch in general, I asked during the movie, what is so different and so good about the letter system?

Not only that, he start by explaining the letters.
so far so good. (what is the connection between the letters and the rhythm pieces.. no clue.. )
second, he show examples on the pad, and then on the set of the same letters.
ok nice.

but then when the "Speaking" part should start , he change direction, and start talking on odd grouping and so on..
where is the letter system now? why we learnt it? aside from the fact that it can be another thing to practice .
how it differ for better or worse from the regular rudiment learn system?

any one with solution ?

[Witterings]

The system isn't new, it's been used in various formats over a period over time, what he's done is simplified it in a way that even if you can't read a note of music you can improve your ability.
In summary what it's trying to do is open up your sticking and ability to be able to play absolutely any combination of notes with or without accents on the left or right hands or played as doubles / flams etc, if you're already beyond that point then it won't be of much benefit to you.
From the point of view of the rhythmic part, that alone helped me massively be able to play any combination on my bass drum I wished, songs that I found hard to emulate the bass drum before suddenly became very easy.
I think it's probably one of two things, either you're at a level that you're so good you're way above this in which case you should be doing your own DVD :-) or your where I was a couple of years ago and didn't quite understand the benefits. All I can say is it made a MASSIVE difference to my all round playing and even over time how I hold the sticks as you can't play it properly without the right technique.
If that's stil left you in the dark and you want me to try and explain in simpler terms let me know.

[Swiss Matthias]

Benny is a supercool drummer and a supernice guy.
Of course the system isn't new. It's not the same as the rudiments, only some of the variations actually are the same thing as some rudiments.
But it should help you gain control and command over time and subdivision, especially all the 16ths.
To me, the step from the 16ths alphabet system to the odd groupings is a bit of a jump too. Although I've been messing with odd groupings for a while, I think it misses a few steps in between. The best thing probably is to just watch Benny play and listen to what he does, he surely shows off the speaking part :).

Btw, love his solo on "Grebfruit" where he loses his splash and just laughs about it:). I'm glad the take made it on the DVD, and even in the regular part!

[Overg]

Originally Posted by Witterings

The system isn't new, it's been used in various formats over a period over time, what he's done is simplified it in a way that even if you can't read a note of music you can improve your ability.
In summary what it's trying to do is open up your sticking and ability to be able to play absolutely any combination of notes with or without accents on the left or right hands or played as doubles / flams etc, if you're already beyond that point then it won't be of much benefit to you.
From the point of view of the rhythmic part, that alone helped me massively be able to play any combination on my bass drum I wished, songs that I found hard to emulate the bass drum before suddenly became very easy.
I think it's probably one of two things, either you're at a level that you're so good you're way above this in which case you should be doing your own DVD :-) or your where I was a couple of years ago and didn't quite understand the benefits. All I can say is it made a MASSIVE difference to my all round playing and even over time how I hold the sticks as you can't play it properly without the right technique.
If that's stil left you in the dark and you want me to try and explain in simpler terms let me know.

I am still in the dark :) although I can see what u mean :
I am definitely not in the stage that I am over it, in fact I am a beginner, and that explain why (maybe) I don't really get what he is trying to do.
but question, isn't the rudiments cover just that?
I mean if you know like 20 of them, is there any combination that you can't play ?

[Witterings]

OK, every drummers biggest limitation can be not being able to play what's going through your mind as your hands don't have the ability / you haven't learnt how to do it and one of the things that makes the biggest difference to how a pattern sounds is where you put the accents. If you then take 4 notes you can either accent none of them, one of them, 2 of them, 3 of them or all of them and that's what this teaches you but also if say you're working with 2 accents out of four notes you can accent either one and two or one and three or one and four etc etc. In effect if you've perfected the entire system you can play any combination at any time you want either with or without accents and your hands / physical ability should theoretically no longer be a limiting factor
Imagine having absolutely no limitation to what your hands and feet can do, that's what this is designed to do, some bits you'll find easier to break through the hard bits and others you won't, I really stuggled with flams on the note T in the tenary especially where it alternates form the left to the right hand lead.
The rhytmics the same, once I'd got my head round how to do the bass drum there was no stopping me and it fell into place really quickly, the notes on the high hat I've only recently started but if you'd actually sat next to a really S*-t hot drummer that instead of 1,2,3,4 on the high hat is able to literally play the beat just with bass / snare and then the high hat's just used for adding accents and those accents then aren't constant but constantly moving the effect is incredible !!!
It definitely doesn't replace rudiments but as you point out it's very similar, I found a lot of this though easier to then apply to playing.
Hope that's helped

[Overg]

Originally Posted by Witterings

OK, every drummers biggest limitation can be not being able to play what's going through your mind as your hands don't have the ability / you haven't learnt how to do it and one of the things that makes the biggest difference to how a pattern sounds is where you put the accents. If you then take 4 notes you can either accent none of them, one of them, 2 of them, 3 of them or all of them and that's what this teaches you but also if say you're working with 2 accents out of four notes you can accent either one and two or one and three or one and four etc etc. In effect if you've perfected the entire system you can play any combination at any time you want either with or without accents and your hands / physical ability should theoretically no longer be a limiting factor
Imagine having absolutely no limitation to what your hands and feet can do, that's what this is designed to do, some bits you'll find easier to break through the hard bits and others you won't, I really stuggled with flams on the note T in the tenary especially where it alternates form the left to the right hand lead.
The rhytmics the same, once I'd got my head round how to do the bass drum there was no stopping me and it fell into place really quickly, the notes on the high hat I've only recently started but if you'd actually sat next to a really S*-t hot drummer that instead of 1,2,3,4 on the high hat is able to literally play the beat just with bass / snare and then the high hat's just used for adding accents and those accents then aren't constant but constantly moving the effect is incredible !!!
It definitely doesn't replace rudiments but as you point out it's very similar, I found a lot of this though easier to then apply to playing.
Hope that's helped

I c, I guess I will go back to the DVD and start over, and see where it takes me :)
Thanks!

[virfirjans]

What benny do in the DVD is other way to explain the same.
While he is talking about the letters come to me the Gary Chaffe's book "time functioning pattern" where is said the same with other words.
I think the diference between greb's method and rudiments is that Greb is introducing letters and rudiments introduce litle sentence.

[Witterings]

Originally Posted by Overg

I c, I guess I will go back to the DVD and start over, and see where it takes me :)
Thanks!

It is worth while, give it 3 months and see how much you've improved, also break it down as opposed to doing the whole thing through so 1 line at a time so A,B,C,and D and work on that repeating it, when you're happy move onto E,F,G and H, then join those 2 lines together and then go onto the 3rd line.
Also try 4, 2 1 ing it, ie play A 4 x's, then B 4 x's then C and D 4 x's each then back to A and play it twice before going onto B etc, etc

Sounds like you're at a level that you could possibly do with a few lessons as well

[Overg]

Originally Posted by Witterings

It is worth while, give it 3 months and see how much you've improved, also break it down as opposed to doing the whole thing through so 1 line at a time so A,B,C,and D and work on that repeating it, when you're happy move onto E,F,G and H, then join those 2 lines together and then go onto the 3rd line.
Also try 4, 2 1 ing it, ie play A 4 x's, then B 4 x's then C and D 4 x's each then back to A and play it twice before going onto B etc, etc

Sounds like you're at a level that you could possibly do with a few lessons as well

Thanks,
well I will take is slow and see if it's really improving my abilities, should be interesting.
thanks again for the guidelines :)

[Swiss Matthias]

By the way, going to see a Benny clinic tonight :D.

[Witterings]

Originally Posted by Swiss Matthias

By the way, going to see a Benny clinic tonight :D.

Coooooeeeeelllllll !!