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  #1  
Old 02-12-2010, 03:55 AM
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Default Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

For years I've played Evans heads, but I notice a fair amount of professionals use Remo. I put a coated Emporer on my snare drum for comparison and the coating began flaking immediately (after one show there is a spot about the size of a pea where the coating is gone).

Is this a problem with coated Emporer's or Remo in general; or did I get a bad head? Can anyone offer some insight?

Thanks!
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

I cannot speak for the emperor head on the snare, but I do have a coated ambassador heads on my entire kit and I put them through the paces and have not had a flake from them yet. I have heard of this with some other folks though so maybe it is an issue.

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Old 02-12-2010, 04:08 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

I have noticed Evans does have a more durable coating, but...I do prefer the sound of Remo. The sound I can get from Vintage E's is like no other.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:01 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerfluff View Post
For years I've played Evans heads, but I notice a fair amount of professionals use Remo. I put a coated Emporer on my snare drum for comparison and the coating began flaking immediately (after one show there is a spot about the size of a pea where the coating is gone).

Is this a problem with coated Emporer's or Remo in general; or did I get a bad head? Can anyone offer some insight?

Thanks!
Not from my experience. I have coated emps on 5 snares and 4 toms. I have used them for years now. The coating wears in time, of course, but I'm yet to see a head, where the coating 'flakes'.......especially so soon.
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

I have seen people use coated heads with no or little wear of the coating and I've also seen and heard of the coating flaking off almost immediately. I look at like this.. It's sprayed on and it gets hit so sooner or later is gonna come off. I don't who's coating is better. I kind of think they are all the same but I could be wrong. Aqaurian claims their coating doesn't flake or chip but it does. I have tried their coated Studio X heads and the coating popped off them right from the start. I don't do brush work so I just avoid them. I have always used clear heads in my 30 years. I gave coated a chance and they always flaked and chipped and made a mess so...
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Technique, sticks and drum placement have more to do with coated heads wearing away than a manufacturing defect.

Technique - If you don't have a perfect up/down stroke, then you are doing what is called "slicing" This will scrape the heads causing premature coating wear.

Sticks - If you are using sticks with beat up beats, this will take the coating off a head prematurely.

Drum Placement - If you have your drums at strange angles, whether a real steep angle or that new awful flat fad, you will end up taking the coating off of the heads.

I have not ONCE had coating come off a Remo, Aquarian or Evans head. That goes for the Remo heads that do have more problems than others. Those include, Coated Emperors, Coated Powerstroke 3 and Coated Powerstroke 4. These are heads that have coating on a clear mylar. Again, I haven't even had coating wear on those models.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

It's incredibly difficult having perfect up and down strokes with brushes, lol. Brushes can play havoc with snare batter heads. The coating wear problem is what actually turned me to Evans after playing Remo for about 47 years. The coatings never flaked after just one night or two, but I have noticed some premature erosion of Remo's coating compared to that of Evans.

Dennis
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Old 02-13-2010, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerfluff View Post
For years I've played Evans heads, but I notice a fair amount of professionals use Remo. I put a coated Emporer on my snare drum for comparison and the coating began flaking immediately (after one show there is a spot about the size of a pea where the coating is gone).

Is this a problem with coated Emporer's or Remo in general; or did I get a bad head? Can anyone offer some insight?

Thanks!

Yeah...Remos heads do that. In MY experience... Do a search on the forums and will find all sorts of Remo vs. Evans vs. Aquarian, etc. Everyone has their preference (and it's just that...a preference). I used to use Remo heads until I got tired of them flaking after just one practice session and in some cases, just one song. There were also a few customer service issues with Remo; I'll just say I've had better.
A few years ago I switched to Aquarian for all my heads. They are the best sounding ones I tried and they last forever. Also, they have the best customer service department; I've been helped by Roy Burns personally a few times.
If you are looking for a good Emp weight head, try the coated Response 2 head.
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  #9  
Old 02-13-2010, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Only time I've ever seen that happen is on my Coated PS3.... on my bass drum. I tend to bury the beater when I'm playing louder too, so it's understandable. It was a gradual, slow removal too, so I eventually just put the patch I was trying to avoid using because of the attack on it and now everything's fine.

Other than that, I had teeny tiny spots where the coating had started to wear away enough to where you could just barely start to see the clear part of an Ambassador on my snare once... after I had played the crap out of it for about a year and a half.

Never had an issue otherwise.
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  #10  
Old 02-14-2010, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by PureRockFury View Post
Technique, sticks and drum placement have more to do with coated heads wearing away than a manufacturing defect.

Technique - If you don't have a perfect up/down stroke, then you are doing what is called "slicing" This will scrape the heads causing premature coating wear.

Sticks - If you are using sticks with beat up beats, this will take the coating off a head prematurely.

Drum Placement - If you have your drums at strange angles, whether a real steep angle or that new awful flat fad, you will end up taking the coating off of the heads.

I have not ONCE had coating come off a Remo, Aquarian or Evans head. That goes for the Remo heads that do have more problems than others. Those include, Coated Emperors, Coated Powerstroke 3 and Coated Powerstroke 4. These are heads that have coating on a clear mylar. Again, I haven't even had coating wear on those models.
I appreciate the response, but I've been playing for 25 years and I'm pretty sure my technique is sound. I Evans G1 Coated heads on the toms and never had the coating flake or chip. My snare has always been a Genera HD Dry and it has never flaked or chipped. I use either Pro-Mark 747 Oak with nylon tip or Vater 5a Los Angeles Hickory with a nylon tip.

However, in this instance the flaking occured within an hour of regular playing with slightly used sticks. I'm not so simple as to wonder why the coating wears over time - this was literally less than 60 minutes into the first use of the new drum head. It was seated, tuned, and positioned no differently than any other head prior, yet began flaking almost immediately. If my playing style and/or drum position were a factor, then it stands to reason every drum head I use would flake; yet this is the first one to ever do so.

It would seem there's a mix of those who have experienced what happened to my head and those who have never had it happen. Perhaps I hit too hard or the angle of my drum just isn't in the Remo sweet spot. I'm not sure, but I know that I'm extremely disappointed in the experience and will likely stick with Evans heads.

Thanks to everyone who offered their experience and insight.

Fluff out
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  #11  
Old 02-14-2010, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

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Originally Posted by drummerfluff View Post
However, in this instance the flaking occured within an hour of regular playing with slightly used sticks. I'm not so simple as to wonder why the coating wears over time - this was literally less than 60 minutes into the first use of the new drum head. It was seated, tuned, and positioned no differently than any other head prior, yet began flaking almost immediately. If my playing style and/or drum position were a factor, then it stands to reason every drum head I use would flake; yet this is the first one to ever do so.
I know you're not referring to general wear and tear here, so I'll suggest a bad head in this case. As I stated earlier, I've not seen one 'flake' so quickly and I've used Remo heads for years. All heads wear, that's a given, but flaking after an hour is certainly not the norm, in my experience.
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2010, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Thanks for all the avice!

As it turns out, Remo heads and I just don't seem to get along. I tried the coated Ambassador head after the issue with the Emporer. It lasted longer, but still began flaking much quicker than the Evans heads. It must be the combination of my playing style mixed with the coating process/material and drum placement.

No clue. Sad to say I'll not be endorsing Remo anytime soon (sorry Remo lover!), but I very much appreciate everyone who offered their experiences. Very helpful stuff!!!

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Old 02-25-2010, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

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Originally Posted by PureRockFury View Post
Drum Placement - If you have your drums at strange angles, whether a real steep angle or that new awful flat fad, you will end up taking the coating off of the heads.
How does a flat placement promote this? If anything it makes the angle of attack as flat as possible which should be the best thing possible in terms of head wear.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

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Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
How does a flat placement promote this? If anything it makes the angle of attack as flat as possible which should be the best thing possible in terms of head wear.
Not real sure. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say he means that if the drum angle is flat and your downstroke is not, the tip of the stick might hit at an ackward angle causing the coating to flake.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

I think you may have gotten an older head from an older production run. I was buying coated ambassadors from a local shop whose stock was probably several years old. Those heads would flake like nobody's business. I then started buying them at the local Guitar Center and noticed right away that the color was different (more of an ivory shade of white), they sounded better, and they wouldn't flake at all.

Obviously they have changed their manufacturing process in the past few years and are making better heads now.
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Well, Remo may have earned a few points. A buddy of mine asked me to try the Powerstroke 3 head before dumping the brand all together. I put on one my snare last night, which still has the Ambassador snare side, and LOVED how fat it sounded. I played for 1:45 live last night, smacking the crap out of it, and you can barely tell I hit it!

I also think the nylon tips may have something to do with what's been happening. I noticed a little bur on one of the older sticks that could have contributed to scratching off the film. Not sure when the bur happened, I try to remember to check the tips before every show. However, I'm going to put this Powerstroke through it's paces with wood tips and see what happens.

Stay tuned!!!

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Old 03-04-2010, 04:04 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

They have changed over the years, certainly. I've seen coated Remos last for years (as far as the coating is concerned) and then other wear out very shortly after one gig or so. I've started preferring the Fiberskyn (hope to try the Skyntone models) because of their warm sound but without a coating that can flake off.
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  #18  
Old 10-10-2010, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

I just put coated emps on all my toms and my 14 floor has flaking coming off after one day. Do I go back and get another one or just let it go and continue using it?
One day!!
I love Remo heads but one day!!!
So should I replace it right away or just leave it?
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Old 10-10-2010, 07:38 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

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Originally Posted by piperdoog View Post
I just put coated emps on all my toms and my 14 floor has flaking coming off after one day. Do I go back and get another one or just let it go and continue using it?
One day!!
I love Remo heads but one day!!!
So should I replace it right away or just leave it?
This must be some kind of a new record, lol. Make sure that your stick tips are not chewed up. If they're in good condition, I would return the head.

Dennis
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Old 10-11-2010, 05:35 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

I have had my share of problems with flaking from Remo heads, but I like the sound of them. I gave them another shot with coated Ambassadors on the snare and I noticed what Zambizzi said about the different color of coating. After about three months, still no flaking. The heads that I was using were the Ludwig coated heads on the toms. No extreme angles on the rack toms,( low and rather flat) floor toms (flat) and snare(flat), so I don't think the flat drum scenario that was mentioned previously is the problem.
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Old 10-11-2010, 06:03 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

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This must be some kind of a new record, lol. Make sure that your stick tips are not chewed up. If they're in good condition, I would return the head.
Yep......I've never seen such widespread panning of Remo heads since joining DW.

I don't doubt anyones experiences, but I'm continually floored by their bad wrap here at Drummerworld. I've used these things for 25 odd years......quite simply, I know what I like and I'm fully aware of the concept of "value for money". If these things didn't hold up, I wouldn't use them....simple as that. I've used Evans heads before, so I have a viable alternative....yet I go back to Remo......surely I'm not that dimwitted that I'm missing something I shouldn't be?

It staggers me to read post after post highlighting 'durability issues' with Remo heads. The fact remains that ALL heads wear out eventually.......no secret there, surely?

Are they REALLY as bad as you guys in the States make 'em out to be? Or is anyone willing to stick their hand up to "user error"? I'm genuinely lost on this one. :-)
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Old 10-11-2010, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

I've been using Vintage Emps on my drums for the past few months. The coating on the 12" is steadily wearing away. I really don't care since it took many, many hours of use to get there. They're just at that break-in point, too, where they're sounding incredible. They'll probably last another 3-4 months.

But again...I have some Ambassadors that I've reused on several kits now. They're turning brown but there's no flaking, at all.

I bought some Emperors a few years ago that you could basically rub the coating off w/ your finger. By the time I got them tuned, a good portion of the coating was missing. I think they've fine-tuned their recipe since then.
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Old 10-11-2010, 06:22 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

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II bought some Emperors a few years ago that you could basically rub the coating off w/ your finger. By the time I got them tuned, a good portion of the coating was missing. I think they've fine-tuned their recipe since then.
lol......I thought of you when I was posting Zam......you don't count. :-)

I've put your unfortunate run of bad luck (out of round drums...heads falling apart or not fitting at all), down to the fact that you must have been a bad, baaaaaad man in a previous life.

It's karma I tells ya.....it HAS to be! :-)
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Even if the coating flakes off, how much is needed to flake off before it notably affects the sound?

I could care less if there's a quarter-sized 'hole' in the coating, because it still sounds nice when I hit the head.

I'll be sure to buy my heads from Musiciansfriend, it's more likely they have newer ones.
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Old 10-11-2010, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

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lol......I thought of you when I was posting Zam......you don't count. :-)

I've put your unfortunate run of bad luck (out of round drums...heads falling apart or not fitting at all), down to the fact that you must have been a bad, baaaaaad man in a previous life.

It's karma I tells ya.....it HAS to be! :-)
Hah! It's a small price to pay for the charmed life I have lived, otherwise, so far. Like my mom told me at dinner, last weekend, "Your father had a horseshoe up his a%$, too!". Something's gotta give, right?
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Well I see it happening again!!!!!
I love Remo heads, I have endorsed their product since I started playing but the 14 floor tom again flaking very fast. I went to the store and they gave me a new one no problem but 2 to 3 weeks in guess what?
I don't get it, my sticks are fine the tuning is fine, the other heads are doing well, but this 14' is the shit's.
I'm going to keep playing it but Remo is starting to eat my account and my patience. I may get the coated ambassadors back on the s classix here, I have clear amb on the reso and coated emps on the batter, I may go to the coated amb?
Any thoughts.
The ambass don't flake quite as easy although I like the emps.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Piperdoog, what kind of stick w/ what kind of tip do you use?!
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Piperdoog, give an Evans GPlus a shot and tell me what you think. Our coating is designed and applied in a manner that is resistant to chipping.
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:30 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

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Piperdoog, give an Evans GPlus a shot and tell me what you think. Our coating is designed and applied in a manner that is resistant to chipping.
I'm using a wood tip, Buddy Rich Vic Firth sticks. And my next batch of heads maybe different. I have not played Evans but will give them a try, or go to the Ambassadors, I have had them on my snare drums and they don't flake, but those Emperor's (brutal)

Last edited by piperdoog; 11-19-2010 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:00 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

I agree with the Evans products and their resistance to coating failure. I switched to Evans products almost five years ago after using Remo for close to forty five years. I just purchased a DW Classic kit with came equipped with DW (Remo) coated heads. I don't play hard at all, but just after a week or two the batter head on my 12" x 8" rack tom already exhibited a bit of coating flaking. When I re-head these drums, I'll probably be using G1 coated heads. I have four other kits and they all have Evans heads top and bottom.

Dennis
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:45 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

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or go to the Ambassadors, I have had them on my snare drums and they don't flake, but those Emperor's (brutal)
Same coating on both heads.....doubt you'll see much difference.
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Old 11-19-2010, 02:00 AM
piperdoog piperdoog is offline
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

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Same coating on both heads.....doubt you'll see much difference.
I see that they both do have the same type of coating which makes it even more interesting, why is it only the Emperor that I am having the problem with, the Amb have all stood the time. So I'm saying go with the Amb on the toms, the birch kit I have will sound good with those, or breakup with Remo and date another company. Evans, Aquarian...
I have not even tried another tom head other than Remo, so maybe time to test the waters. I have brand new clear Amb on the reso, any advice on the batter for an S Classix. Someone mentioned the Gplus coated.......

Last edited by piperdoog; 11-19-2010 at 04:42 AM.
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Old 11-19-2010, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

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Originally Posted by piperdoog View Post
any advice on the batter for an S Classix. Someone mentioned the Gplus coated.......
G Plus is great because it's a thicker single-ply head. It has greater resonance than the G2 but has more durability than the G1. For what it's worth, Jojo Mayer uses them on his Sonors and loves them.
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  #34  
Old 11-19-2010, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

To simply add to the mix, I've had problems with both Evans and Remo's flaking prematurely.

I've also not had problems with both companies products.

Similar to sticks breaking prematurely, I reckon there are aspects of the skins that the companies' quality control is unable to detect or account for.
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:55 AM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

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To simply add to the mix, I've had problems with both Evans and Remo's flaking prematurely.

I've also not had problems with both companies products.

Similar to sticks breaking prematurely, I reckon there are aspects of the skins that the companies' quality control is unable to detect or account for.
Hey thanks for the input, sorry about your Leafs brother!!!!!
I just heard about Remo's new Ambassador x, although I'm tempted to try out these Evans G plus....
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  #36  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

I bought a Remo Powerstroke 3 for my snare and after one set there were multiple spots missing in the batter. One 45 minute set. And I play folk rock. Unacceptable. At the same time, I have an Ambassador on one of my other snares and it doesn't have spots. But that one head was bad enough. None of the Evans heads I have used have done that before.

There's always going to be the Remo/Evans war, because they are the 2 dominent head manufacturers (no offense to Aquarian and such). But to me, Evans wins hands down. They sound as good or better, and as a company are far more innovative, with the EMADs, the Onyx, the G-plus, the EC's...I don't want to start some sort of argument. I'm just saying I was a Remo boy and Evans won me over with their quality.
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  #37  
Old 11-24-2010, 09:18 PM
anzi anzi is offline
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

For me, with Remo, it has allways been so that if the head is a coated clear head, the coating will chip fast. But if it's a coated head that has white film, it will last for a long time. Coated emperors i've had alwways have clear film, and the coating never lasts more than a few hours. Ambassadors, however sometimes have clear film, and sometimes white.
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  #38  
Old 11-25-2010, 01:18 AM
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IDDrummer IDDrummer is offline
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Unless you are using brushes on a coated snare head, I can't really see what the big deal is. It's cosmetic - you would have to have an incredible amount of coating come off before it noticeably affected the sound...

FWIW, I've had coating flake prematurely on every major brand. Usually it lasts just fine, sometimes not, but I've never really felt compelled to return a head because the coating flaked.
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  #39  
Old 01-21-2011, 11:19 PM
piperdoog piperdoog is offline
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist View Post
G Plus is great because it's a thicker single-ply head. It has greater resonance than the G2 but has more durability than the G1. For what it's worth, Jojo Mayer uses them on his Sonors and loves them.
Ok I'm taking your advice, the next heads I put on my 3 toms will be the G Plus, sick of the coating on my Emps leaving me prematurely. We shall see....
Still have a little life left in them but will try a change.
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  #40  
Old 01-22-2011, 12:12 AM
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Spectron Spectron is offline
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Default Re: Flaking on Coated Emporer Heads

I beat the crap out of my toms and snare and aside from a very small
worn through area on my snare (cs) I haven't seen any flaking from my Emperors.

I saw this thread when it came out in Feb 2010 and since then I have been beating the living daylights out of my emperors actually trying to get some flakage.....

nada....are you guys tuning like ultra low or something? Using baseball bats for sticks?? Playing more than an an hour a day everyday?

I play about 45 min to an hour every single day and when I hit toms and snare I
HIT. Dents yes, flakage? no. very weird.
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