DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Off Topic Lounge

Off Topic Lounge All Discussions Not Related To Drumming

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-04-2010, 09:46 PM
Pavlos's Avatar
Pavlos Pavlos is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Detroit Rock City
Posts: 475
Default Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Bruce Springsteen is taking legal action against the owners of a New York bar who allegedly failed to obtain permission to play The Boss' songs.

The "Born to Run" rocker filed a copyright infringement lawsuit against Connolly's Pub & Restaurant on Wednesday, claiming the venue's bosses charged customers a fee to hear a band perform three of Springsteen's tracks in August 2008.
http://music.msn.com/music/article.a...6503&GT1=28102

This is obivously not about money for the Boss, but about the bar not paying ASCAP (American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers). Interesting case.

Has anyone known whether bars they play at pay the proper fees to ASCAP if you're playing covers? I never even knew about this before I read this article.

How do you all feel about this? Should we as performers be questioning the bar owners when we play covers? Is it our responsibility or theirs?
__________________
My Sonor-Paiste Setup Mania

Look Mommy, there's an airplane up in the sky.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-04-2010, 09:54 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,842
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Many (although not all) clubs/bars pay an annual licensing fee to ASCAP to cover themselves from such liability.

It's not exactly a new thing.

I remember when my band was on the verge of getting signed 12-14 years ago, (which never fully went through) we all went down to ASCAP to get the paper work rolling to cover ourselves, and ASCAP gave us a list of clubs in the immediate area who had valid ASCAP licenses.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-04-2010, 09:56 PM
TFITTING942
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Strange he even knew about the 3 songs being played. I wonder if this fee is paid by every bar in the country or is it a NY thing? I can't imagine all the bars I played in over the years were paying it. I doubt half of them had liquor licenses. I certainly agree with money being paid to any and all artists that deserve it but I would hate to see live music disappear because of a fee bar owners refuse to pay up.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-04-2010, 10:01 PM
Strangelove's Avatar
Strangelove Strangelove is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere west of sanity
Posts: 1,133
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

The "Born to Run" rocker filed a copyright infringement lawsuit against Connolly's Pub & Restaurant on Wednesday, claiming the venue's bosses charged customers a fee to hear a band perform three of Springsteen's tracks in August 2008.

I wonder if this is the crux of the biscuit. IOW, the issue is the club charging the patrons and Springsteen not liking that, not necessarily whether they were paying ASCAP or not.

Last edited by Strangelove; 02-04-2010 at 10:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-04-2010, 10:56 PM
Pavlos's Avatar
Pavlos Pavlos is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Detroit Rock City
Posts: 475
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Not sure this is about the bar charging or not. This is from further down in the article I linked to above.

Quote:
The ASCAP Senior Vice President For Licensing, Vincent Candilora, explains, "It's not about him as a recording artist. In this instance, he's simply a songwriter with rights.
"We had been after them (Connolly's) for complying for over two years, so it's not so much about who or where. Why should those places that are complying with the law be at a competitive disadvantage?"
__________________
My Sonor-Paiste Setup Mania

Look Mommy, there's an airplane up in the sky.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-05-2010, 01:51 AM
GRUNTERSDAD's Avatar
GRUNTERSDAD GRUNTERSDAD is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida's West Coast
Posts: 15,579
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

He is the third or fourth person I have heard doing this in the last few months. I'll have to look back to refresh my memory. Taylor Swift was the latest.
__________________
Thank you for sharing my day.
Gretsch Renown
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-05-2010, 01:57 AM
Eric Eric is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 139
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Bars are responsible for paying ascap to have live music. I know some of the smaller jazz clubs back in the day would try to circumvent this by having the bands play only originals or change the heads of common jazz standards (since chord changes are not copywrighted.)
__________________
www.ericmontzka.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-05-2010, 06:32 AM
mcbike's Avatar
mcbike mcbike is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 660
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

most bars you play at will have a ascap sticker in the window by the front entrance. I know alot of companies like grocery stores and malls use a satellite music service that pays the royalties for them. alot of bars have gone to those digital juke boxes which also pay the royalties.

Alot of venues don't pay the ascap fees, there are only so many "inspectors" so they can't hit up every venue so venues risk it.
__________________
http://www.blaggards.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-05-2010, 08:10 PM
nhzoso
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

WOW that suxx. I guess it's his right but just seems petty to me especially when you have made hundreds of millions of dollars in your life. Why not have someone who makes $60k pay a fee for having live music.

If They keep enforcing this it will only be a matter of time before every club does away with live bands and you have DJ'd everywhere..

I know it's just not Springsteen but how much friggin money do you need man? How much is enough? I am sure Bruce never covered others material when he was starting out right? Why you would let this ascap use your name for this greed is beyond me and I will never understand it.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-05-2010, 08:17 PM
GRUNTERSDAD's Avatar
GRUNTERSDAD GRUNTERSDAD is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida's West Coast
Posts: 15,579
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

I think technically DJ's need to play under the same rules. They are playing music for money so they have to ante up. My local pub pays the ASCAP dues for a juke box and for the local entertainers to play there. I ue to manage a bowling center and we were not allowed to play commercial radio over the PA system for the same rules.
__________________
Thank you for sharing my day.
Gretsch Renown
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-05-2010, 08:35 PM
Pavlos's Avatar
Pavlos Pavlos is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Detroit Rock City
Posts: 475
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Well, apparently the Boss isn't sueing the bar, ASCAP is. Springsteen now wants his name taken off the lawsuit as a plaintiff. It looks like ASCAP may have been using his name as a way to gain greater publicity or legitimacy for the lawsuit without his knowing.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/...t_7332269.html
__________________
My Sonor-Paiste Setup Mania

Look Mommy, there's an airplane up in the sky.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-05-2010, 08:49 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,842
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhzoso View Post
WOW that suxx. I guess it's his right but just seems petty to me especially when you have made hundreds of millions of dollars in your life. Why not have someone who makes $60k pay a fee for having live music.

If They keep enforcing this it will only be a matter of time before every club does away with live bands and you have DJ'd everywhere..

I know it's just not Springsteen but how much friggin money do you need man? How much is enough? I am sure Bruce never covered others material when he was starting out right? Why you would let this ascap use your name for this greed is beyond me and I will never understand it.
This rule has been being enforced since the 1920's.

Really, this is nothing new.

Try researching publishing royalties and the rules about such before jumping to conclusions about greed.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-05-2010, 08:53 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,842
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlos View Post
Well, apparently the Boss isn't sueing the bar, ASCAP is. Springsteen now wants his name taken off the lawsuit as a plaintiff. It looks like ASCAP may have been using his name as a way to gain greater publicity or legitimacy for the lawsuit without his knowing.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/...t_7332269.html
I thought it was pretty obvious ASCAP was doing the suing, not Springsteen.

On one hand, yes, they should have contacted him, because they clearly used his name to get some weight behind the suit, on the the other hand, if he has a contract with ASCAP to collect his royalties on his behalf (which every published song writer has such a deal with either ASCAP or BMI), then they were suing for his benefit, among others.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-05-2010, 08:57 PM
Pavlos's Avatar
Pavlos Pavlos is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Detroit Rock City
Posts: 475
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
I thought it was pretty obvious ASCAP was doing the suing, not Springsteen.
Not from the first article I read and posted which clearly stated Bruce was the one that brought the lawsuit. Looks like a case of muddled journalism or ASCAP using his name without his permission (not really sure.)

That's why I posted the followup article. My thread title is now misleading. Can I edit my thread title?
__________________
My Sonor-Paiste Setup Mania

Look Mommy, there's an airplane up in the sky.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-05-2010, 09:51 PM
awesometastic awesometastic is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 57
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

I think the real crime here is that people are still playing Springsteen songs.

/Kidding

//Well, only sorta kidding
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-07-2010, 12:51 AM
nhzoso
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
This rule has been being enforced since the 1920's.

Really, this is nothing new.

Try researching publishing royalties and the rules about such before jumping to conclusions about greed.

Fair enough but I was referring to the Boss being greedy, I really do not know much about ascap, and lo and behold they are using his name without his permission. I guess they can break the rules as long as No one breaks theirs? What do they do? Do they pay royalties to the performer? If so how do they know who to pay it too?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-07-2010, 01:08 AM
Pollyanna's Avatar
Pollyanna Pollyanna is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cyberspace, Sydney connection
Posts: 10,000
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

This a great news - should be more of it.

Maybe then we'll hear more music from unrecorded independent artists who can offer their wares for free.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-07-2010, 01:21 AM
con struct's Avatar
con struct con struct is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lumpen post-industrial district
Posts: 2,062
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

From today's New York TImes:

February 4, 2010, 4:09 pm
Springsteen Says He Is Not Suing a New York Bar
By BEN SISARIO

Bruce Springsteen wants to make something clear: he is not suing any bars where bands might be playing his songs.

In response to reports saying that he and ASCAP, the royalty collection agency, had sued Connolly’s Pub & Restaurant in Midtown Manhattan for copyright infringement because it did not pay licensing fees, Mr. Springsteen’s publicity firm said in a statement that ASCAP had filed the suit without his involvement or permission. “ASCAP was solely responsible for naming Bruce Springsteen as a plaintiff in the lawsuit,” the statement said. “Bruce Springsteen had no knowledge of this lawsuit, was not asked if he would participate as a named plaintiff, and would not have agreed to do so if he had been asked.”

According to the suit, the bar, on West 45th Street near Times Square, did not pay fees for public performances of two Springsteen songs when a band played there in August 2008. A spokesman for ASCAP declined to comment in response to the Springsteen statement.
__________________
Call me J
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:10 AM
oops's Avatar
oops oops is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 579
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhzoso View Post
Fair enough but I was referring to the Boss being greedy, I really do not know much about ascap, and lo and behold they are using his name without his permission. I guess they can break the rules as long as No one breaks theirs? What do they do? Do they pay royalties to the performer? If so how do they know who to pay it too?
I don't think you really understand the situation. The way it works in Australia is APRA (Australian equivalent of ASCAP) sells licenses to live music venues to allow them to have live performances on their premises. These live venues or the performers who perform at them will submit a record of when they played and what tunes they played.

APRA then compiles a list of who performed when and where and what tunes they performed, they then divided the licensing fees the venue payed at the beginning out to the songwriters, based on how many tunes where performed, and where and when it occurred.

It's basically all fed into a computer.

It benefits the SONGWRITERS, not the venues, not APRA (ASCAP, which are generally non-profit organizations), and not necessarily the performers.

If i go out with my original band this year, play 15 shows, with a set list of tunes composed 100% by me I can look forward to getting a check of around $200 at the end of the year. (this is a rough estimate).

It's a shame that ASCAP didn't get Springsteen's permission for this particular venture, but bars should be paying licensing fees. In the long run, the fee really isn't that much, as far as I'm aware it's a couple hundred dollars.
__________________
Wishing I was Stanton Moore...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-07-2010, 03:23 PM
nhzoso
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Well I doubt they are non-profit, sounds like they need to have some good high priced lawyers on retainer to enforce this. Which there is no way they can fully enforce it. I live in NH and I don't remember seeing anything ascap stickers anywhere, they probably only worry about it in big city major bars, which if you want to get into the big time I imagine you have to play these clubs anyway so why not start learning to pay your dues : )
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-07-2010, 10:21 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,842
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhzoso View Post
Well I doubt they are non-profit, sounds like they need to have some good high priced lawyers on retainer to enforce this. Which there is no way they can fully enforce it. I live in NH and I don't remember seeing anything ascap stickers anywhere, they probably only worry about it in big city major bars, which if you want to get into the big time I imagine you have to play these clubs anyway so why not start learning to pay your dues : )
You may not see the stickers, but it's NOT just a big city thing.

But ASCAP and BMI mostly work behind the scenes, which is why most people have little clue as to what they do. But if it wasn't for them, most song writers of the last 80 or so years would be flat broke.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-07-2010, 10:24 PM
Pavlos's Avatar
Pavlos Pavlos is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Detroit Rock City
Posts: 475
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by oops View Post

If i go out with my original band this year, play 15 shows, with a set list of tunes composed 100% by me I can look forward to getting a check of around $200 at the end of the year. (this is a rough estimate).
Interesting. My band plays about 90% originals with a few covers sprinkled in. Maybe we should get with ASCAP and get a check. Does anyone else here do this?

And really, how can I change my thread title? I feel bad now that it is wrong.
__________________
My Sonor-Paiste Setup Mania

Look Mommy, there's an airplane up in the sky.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-07-2010, 11:52 PM
Vipercussionist's Avatar
Vipercussionist Vipercussionist is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Rhode Island (USA)
Posts: 742
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlos View Post
Interesting. My band plays about 90% originals with a few covers sprinkled in. Maybe we should get with ASCAP and get a check. Does anyone else here do this?

And really, how can I change my thread title? I feel bad now that it is wrong.
HA HA!! They're not handing out checks to just ANYONE, you'd get paid of others are playing/using YOUR songs, not if YOU play them, you already OWN them!!!

L0L!!!
.
__________________
Things to share
Thanks are implied
You are welcome
Listen To BONHAM here!!
ViperFace
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-08-2010, 12:29 AM
oops's Avatar
oops oops is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 579
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlos View Post
Interesting. My band plays about 90% originals with a few covers sprinkled in. Maybe we should get with ASCAP and get a check. Does anyone else here do this?

And really, how can I change my thread title? I feel bad now that it is wrong.
http://www.ascap.com/about/payment/paymentintro.html

I'd check out that for an intro into how it works, there's a link at the bottom on how to 'register your works'. Just keep following through and it explains everything.

According to their website, the following pay licensing fees to them:

* The three major television networks: ABC, CBS and NBC

* Public television - the Public Broadcasting System (PBS) and its affiliated stations

* The majority of the 11,000 cable systems and virtually all of the cable program services

* About 11,500 local commercial radio stations

* About 2,000 non-commercial radio broadcasters, including college radio stations and National Public Radio (NPR) stations

* Hundreds of background music services (such as MUZAK, airlines)

* About 2,300 colleges and universities

* About 5,700 concert presenters

* Over 1,000 symphony orchestras

* Over 2,000 web sites

* Tens of thousands of "general" licensees: bars, restaurants, hotels, ice and roller skating rinks, circuses, theme parks, veterans and fraternal organizations and more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipercussionist
HA HA!! They're not handing out checks to just ANYONE, you'd get paid of others are playing/using YOUR songs, not if YOU play them, you already OWN them!!!

L0L!!!
Unfortunately, you're incorrect. You do get paid to perform your own songs. Venues are paying for the rights to have your songs performed, if it happens to be you performing them, you get paid twice: once for whatever you make on the door/whatever the venue gives you, and once by ASCAP.

It's basically a brilliant system to protect songwriters.

Pavlos: the thing to sort out before doing this is who in the band actually wrote the tunes. If you're willing to split the songwriting credit 4 ways then it'll benefit the whole band, otherwise it'll really only benefit the person who actually wrote the songs. I'd seriously sort it out before you start trying to claim money, as if you wait till after you're going to have massive problems.
__________________
Wishing I was Stanton Moore...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-08-2010, 12:56 AM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 9,959
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by oops View Post
I don't think you really understand the situation. The way it works in Australia is APRA (Australian equivalent of ASCAP) sells licenses to live music venues to allow them to have live performances on their premises. These live venues or the performers who perform at them will submit a record of when they played and what tunes they played.

APRA then compiles a list of who performed when and where and what tunes they performed, they then divided the licensing fees the venue payed at the beginning out to the songwriters, based on how many tunes where performed, and where and when it occurred.

It's basically all fed into a computer.

It benefits the SONGWRITERS, not the venues, not APRA (ASCAP, which are generally non-profit organizations), and not necessarily the performers.

If i go out with my original band this year, play 15 shows, with a set list of tunes composed 100% by me I can look forward to getting a check of around $200 at the end of the year. (this is a rough estimate).

It's a shame that ASCAP didn't get Springsteen's permission for this particular venture, but bars should be paying licensing fees. In the long run, the fee really isn't that much, as far as I'm aware it's a couple hundred dollars.
Hey mate........is this a relatively new thing in Oz? I played in various cover bands up until several years ago and never once submitted a set list to either APRA or the venue for this purpose. Never gave it a seconds thought to be honest. Was it always in place but has been largely ignored, or has it come about in the time that I've not been playing live?
__________________
What's the best cape for running away from a gig?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-08-2010, 01:15 AM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 13,767
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

I always wondered how musicians collected their royalties from say radio broadcasts for starters. Does the station pay each label a penny or whatever when they play a song? What a huge job that would be to coordinate, all those records, all those artists... How is any of this proven, who played what how many times. Is that somones job? making sure every side that is played is paid for all the time? Multiply that by all the radio stations across the country and wow what a complicated system!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-08-2010, 01:55 AM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 9,959
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I always wondered how musicians collected their royalties from say radio broadcasts for starters. Does the station pay each label a penny or whatever when they play a song? What a huge job that would be to coordinate, all those records, all those artists... How is any of this proven, who played what how many times. Is that somones job? making sure every side that is played is paid for all the time? Multiply that by all the radio stations across the country and wow what a complicated system!
Yep, radio stations keep meticulous records on what was played. Each programme has to fill out a 'run sheet' of the music they'll be playing. These are submitted to the relevant bodies, who are then responsible for the royalty distribution. From the majors, right down to local community stations.
__________________
What's the best cape for running away from a gig?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-08-2010, 02:30 AM
bobdadruma's Avatar
bobdadruma bobdadruma is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: second measure of a fill-in
Posts: 10,367
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

I remember way back when in the early eighties. I was helping a friend of mine run a small Mexican restaurant. One eve, a guy walked in and he said that we had to stop playing the radio in the dinning room unless we paid royalties to ASCAP.
We thought that he was a freak or something. We didn't believe him. We took him out back and we beat the crap out of him like we used to do to all of the freaks that came into the joint. An hour later a cop walked in and we were arrested for assault. Apparently we had broken one of this guys ribs and his nose. Oh Well! Do-Do Happens!
We had to call in some favors from some Low Friends In High Places to get out of that one!
We didn't do any time but we had to pay that jerks hospital bill.
That was my first introduction to ASCAP.
__________________
I kind of like old drums:)
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-08-2010, 02:55 AM
Tropellor's Avatar
Tropellor Tropellor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 172
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Hey mate........is this a relatively new thing in Oz? I played in various cover bands up until several years ago and never once submitted a set list to either APRA or the venue for this purpose. Never gave it a seconds thought to be honest. Was it always in place but has been largely ignored, or has it come about in the time that I've not been playing live?
Heya Pocket,

APRA was established in 1926. I'm the QLD Representative for the Songwriters, but if you'd like to discuss it further, I suggest you speak to Con or Sibylla in the Victorian office (the office is in Richmond). If you're an original writer, and you have your work Performed Live or Broadcast on TV/Internet/Radio then you are eligible for membership (which is free and available online).

Here in Australia, any Venue/Business that uses music that is audible to the public are required to pay an annual licence to APRA, APRA then distributes the money (royalty) back to the Songwriters. Major Radio and TV are to submit a full log of every work (song) that they broadcast, to allow the royalty to be paid back to the writer. Also, as mentioned, the songwriters submit a Live Performance Return each year to tell APRA 1) What venues they performed at over the Financial year 2) What songs they performed and 3) How many times each song was performed.

APRA has reciprocal agreements with collection societies around the world, so if you receive airplay in the states (for example) then BMI or ASCAP will pay APRA then APRA will pay you. Alternatively, if an American artist receives airplay in Australia, APRA will bay ASCAP or BMI and then they will pay the writer.

Ok, i'm done!

Cheers
__________________
www.myspace.com/oneillchris
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-08-2010, 05:08 AM
nhzoso
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
I remember way back when in the early eighties. I was helping a friend of mine run a small Mexican restaurant. One eve, a guy walked in and he said that we had to stop playing the radio in the dinning room unless we paid royalties to ASCAP.
We thought that he was a freak or something. We didn't believe him. We took him out back and we beat the crap out of him like we used to do to all of the freaks that came into the joint. An hour later a cop walked in and we were arrested for assault. Apparently we had broken one of this guys ribs and his nose. Oh Well! Do-Do Happens!
We had to call in some favors from some Low Friends In High Places to get out of that one!
We didn't do any time but we had to pay that jerks hospital bill.
That was my first introduction to ASCAP.

LOL, where does it stop? I mean really how many rules and regulations can we have? The Music Police???? really? just what the world needs.. I swear every time I hear these we are the world (save Haiti) BS gatherings I think of crap like this.

These big time ego maniac musicians are in it just for the almighty $, and if you think differently than you are sorely mistaken. I for one am happy you guys did what you did. Pay some greedy talentless hack money for playing the radio (a free public service BTW) in your restaurant. Pffft, I don;t think so. No wonder why music interest is fading. Not much difference between a politician and a professional musician nowadays.(Good job lars)

Of course I don't mean every single pro musician so save the you can't lump every one into the same jar BS argument for someone who has not heard it before.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 02-08-2010, 07:02 AM
oops's Avatar
oops oops is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 579
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Hey mate........is this a relatively new thing in Oz? I played in various cover bands up until several years ago and never once submitted a set list to either APRA or the venue for this purpose. Never gave it a seconds thought to be honest. Was it always in place but has been largely ignored, or has it come about in the time that I've not been playing live?
Depending on the situation the venue nearly always pays APRA and the band doesn't worry about it. In some situations (say the band was playing at a private wedding, maybe at a chapel/someone's house where there usually isn't live music) it gets very difficult, in which case I believe it's still the venue/organizers responsibility to buy a one-off license.

Definitely worth calling up your local APRA office to talk to someone about it, otherwise search out a music lawyer or similar and they can put you in the right direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhoza
LOL, where does it stop? I mean really how many rules and regulations can we have? The Music Police???? really? just what the world needs.. I swear every time I hear these we are the world (save Haiti) BS gatherings I think of crap like this.

These big time ego maniac musicians are in it just for the almighty $, and if you think differently than you are sorely mistaken. I for one am happy you guys did what you did. Pay some greedy talentless hack money for playing the radio (a free public service BTW) in your restaurant. Pffft, I don;t think so. No wonder why music interest is fading. Not much difference between a politician and a professional musician nowadays.(Good job lars)

Of course I don't mean every single pro musician so save the you can't lump every one into the same jar BS argument for someone who has not heard it before.
Not really sure that this requires a response but I'd consider thinking about your fellow musicians before making blanket statements like this. APRA/ASCAP are here to benefit MUSICIAN'S, whether you're Springsteen, Brad Mehldau, the Arctic Monkeys or the guy who plays at your local pub on a Friday night. Without organizations like this musicians across the world would be in a much worse place.

Haiti is a completely different kettle of fish and I really don't think it requires discussion.
__________________
Wishing I was Stanton Moore...
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-08-2010, 07:48 AM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,842
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhzoso View Post
LOL, where does it stop? I mean really how many rules and regulations can we have? The Music Police???? really? just what the world needs.. I swear every time I hear these we are the world (save Haiti) BS gatherings I think of crap like this.

These big time ego maniac musicians are in it just for the almighty $, and if you think differently than you are sorely mistaken. I for one am happy you guys did what you did. Pay some greedy talentless hack money for playing the radio (a free public service BTW) in your restaurant. Pffft, I don;t think so. No wonder why music interest is fading. Not much difference between a politician and a professional musician nowadays.(Good job lars)

Of course I don't mean every single pro musician so save the you can't lump every one into the same jar BS argument for someone who has not heard it before.
Actually, music is fading because of people who have the attitude that a musician's work should always be free.

Never mind how much a drum set costs, never mind how much lessons, rehearsal time, studio time and work it takes to create music, people think it should just be free and blame anyone who thinks otherwise for being greedy.

But try to going to the grocery store and getting groceries, and not paying for them, or not paying your rent/mortgage because you're a musician. Doesn't work.

And radio isn't a free service, that's why they sell advertising.

Really, learn how the music business works. Read some books, take a class. Learn about how songwriters actually get paid.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-08-2010, 08:21 AM
Tropellor's Avatar
Tropellor Tropellor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 172
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhzoso View Post
Pay some greedy talentless hack money for playing the radio (a free public service BTW) in your restaurant.
Yeah, I think you've totally missed the point there. Organisations like ASCAP exist to ASSIST the songwriter by paying them broadcast royalties that they are entitled to. Many musician rely on their royalty payments when they are distributed to them, and are very grateful that organisations like ASCAP exist. Otherwise they'd be ringing up each radio station asking for their individual royalty payment... if they heard it on air.
__________________
www.myspace.com/oneillchris
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-08-2010, 08:27 AM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 9,959
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Oops and Tropellor......thanks for the replies on the Oz tangent to this thread. It's an issue that was always outta sight, outta mind for me. We never offered, no one ever asked - with respect to playing covers. Interesting thread!
__________________
What's the best cape for running away from a gig?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-08-2010, 08:40 AM
Pollyanna's Avatar
Pollyanna Pollyanna is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cyberspace, Sydney connection
Posts: 10,000
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

I could be wrong but I thought that APRA pays when you play original material rather than covers. My old originals band received some fairly paltry cheques from time to time.

Our guitarist would periodically submit the details of our gigs etc and APRA would tally up the pennies and throw them over.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-08-2010, 08:54 AM
Tropellor's Avatar
Tropellor Tropellor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 172
Default Re: Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
I could be wrong but I thought that APRA pays when you play original material rather than covers. My old originals band received some fairly paltry cheques from time to time.

Our guitarist would periodically submit the details of our gigs etc and APRA would tally up the pennies and throw them over.
Heya Polly,

That's right, APRA represents original Songwriters. However, it's common that people perform a combination of originals and covers, and by courtesy they can tell APRA the covers they performed, and that royalty gets paid to the songwriter of that cover. You can only be a member of APRA if you are an original songwriter/co-writer.

Cheers
__________________
www.myspace.com/oneillchris
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com