Czarcie Kopyto (Devil's hoof) - Double bass pedal from Poland

[sinol]

Hi drummers! I'm new on forum. I'm Peter from Poland:)

Have You heard about "Czarcie Kopyto"?

http://www.czarciekopyto.com/

It's new (first in fact) polish double bass pedal. What do You think?. Even axis and brilliant trick are technically in the back. It's fully for custom order. Similar product would cost 2 times more that this (it's proffesional opinion). In Poland CK is even cheaper than axis! Its my dream to get this pedals:)
"CZARCIE KOPYTO" means "DEUCE HOOF" (or devils' hoof).
Ladies and Gentleman...what do You think?
Rgrds, P

[MykeyInChains]

I have never seen it before. It definitely looks well made, obviously using the Trick pedals as a model. It looks almost identical. I wouldn't mind trying it at my local music store, but if they are custom ordered, i doubt I will. I would never buy a pedal I can't try first. I don't see anything ground-breaking. It still uses the normal pull spring, but it looks infinitely adjustable, which is good. All the machining looks super clean. Its nice to see some tell-tale machining marks on the footboard. Its not just a cast chunk of aluminum. Looks like a solid product. Too bad it hasn't reached the states.

[frank0072]

to bad it's covered in devils and pentagrams. not a very neutral look imho.

[konaboy]

Originally Posted by frank0072

to bad it's covered in devils and pentagrams. not a very neutral look imho.

I'm with you on that although he did say they were custom order so maybe that was an option someone chose.

They look o.k. nothing revolutionary and not sure how they are superior to trick or axis

[Filacterua]

Originally Posted by frank0072

to bad it's covered in devils and pentagrams. not a very neutral look imho.

I could be mistaken, but I believe the words translate into "Devil's Hoof"...

[Les Ismore]

Uh ohh, bearings in the heel hinge(s)... better than TRICK already.


Extension spring, see how easy it is? TRICK should offer an extension spring pedal.


Foot board angle could have been made infinite adjust (with another channel) instead of just a few holes.

[KarlCrafton]

Out of the Direct Drive pedals, I like the Axis best, but this looks like a pretty cool pedal.
I like the idea of bearings in the heel, and the spring. I like the feel of a spring like this rather than the rotating type (can't think of what it's called right now...).
I agree with Les, i it had a channel for the foot board adjustment, that would be huge.

[sinol]

Originally Posted by konaboy

I'm with you on that although he did say they were custom order so maybe that was an option someone chose.

They look o.k. nothing revolutionary and not sure how they are superior to trick or axis

Yes You can have this pedals without these stupid marks (I prefer clean footboard too)

Obviously its not better than axis or Trick. Its different. Its hand made product with CNC machines usage (is it even correct sentence in english? lol). There was official present of CZ in Poland. People who spend thier lives on drumming (mechanism stuff also) said this twin is magnificent and made with WATCH-MAKER PRECISION. Its cheaper for us to order this pedals than axis or Trick which is pretty non-available in Poland. I must have this devils' tool!. I see good opinions about CZ here:) Thanks for posting.
Best regards:)

[Les Ismore]

Obviously its not better than axis or Trick.

Sorry dude, it is better than TRICK, it has heel hinge bearings.

[sinol]

It has better mechanism solutions but it can't be said so obious that its better than trick (not to mention my opinion contained in topic title:)) I think this IS the best double bass pedal in the world but I know that users of trick or axis could disagree. It's just MY opinion. When I get this treasure I will make some crash tests and tell You something more about it:) For now I can only say CZ has exelent opinion among experienced drummers.
Rgrds.

[Les Ismore]

better mechanism solutions

... is enough to qualify as 'better' (than TRICK).

TRICK can up grade, they need somewhere to go and bearings in their heel hinge and an extension spring gives them somewhere to go.

[jorgos]

Originally Posted by Les Ismore

Obviously its not better than axis or Trick.

Sorry dude, it is better than TRICK, it has heel hinge bearings.

I'm with You.


I read some specifications about this Pedal.

Web Translate in CODE:

[ This is the CUSTOM equipment Only- Devil's hoof is produced only for individual orders, manufacturing is not mass!.
We provide individual approach to each client.]

Made with CNC(Computerized Numerical Control) machine.That's why it's so precisely construction.

1)Construction is not Cast,it's solid mass aluminium

7075 Aluminium (Al Zn 5.5 Mg Cu) .[7075 is a zinc aluminium alloy and is the strongest grade of aluminium]

2)Non aliminium part's is very hard HRC45(carbon)steel.

3)Every connection hinge,have bearing.Total 28.Some of those is Japanes NACHI.

[Les Ismore]

Here's youtube Vid of
Czarcie Kopyto

[Ian]

It has a vertical spring, not the coil that the Trick and SpeedKing have. I'm gonna vote for different, not better.

[Les Ismore]

Originally Posted by Ian

It has a vertical spring, not the coil that the Trick and SpeedKing have. I'm gonna vote for different, not better.

Sorry, it does have a coil spring, so does TRICK, Speed King and Ghost... all coil springs.

Heel hinge bearings make it better than TRICK.

[Pavlos]

Originally Posted by Les Ismore

Uh ohh, bearings in the heel hinge(s)... better than TRICK already.


Extension spring, see how easy it is? TRICK should offer an extension spring pedal.


Foot board angle could have been made infinite adjust (with another channel) instead of just a few holes.

What does extension spring mean? Trick and Speed King have the spring compressed in the shaft right? And this one just has a spring on the outside like most pedals. Am I undestanding this correctly? Why is one better than the other?

And judging from these pics could it be said that the Trick is more adjustable which is a plus in it's favor?

[Les Ismore]

What does extension spring mean?

It means just that, it extends and contracts. Czarcie Kopyto is extension spring.


Trick and Speed King have the spring compressed in the shaft right?

Speed King's springs get compressed inside the pedal posts, TRICK has a different action happening- one small coil working horizontally (see second pic of this post). Still in the post, still gets compressed, but 'different'.

Why is one better than the other?

Its all feel, so one decides which spring is best for them. When I say "better than TRICK" Im referring to the fact Czarcie Kopyto has heel hinge bearings where TRICK chose to employ a steel pin rubbing on aluminum.

All springs on production drum pedals are 'coil springs' (except PDP BOA). We can assume Ian meant to say "extention" rather than "vertical" and "compression" rather than "coil".

Czarcie Kopyto has all the adjustments TRICK has, except for the 'slide track hoop adjustment'. Kopyto could have made (what TRICK calls) the 'stroke adjustment cluster' infinite adjust, but they chose three hole positions like TRICK and TRICK might have a slight-edge in the 'dynamic' their stroke adjustment cluster delivers to the throw.

These two pedals are genetically related (almost twins), so Its all going to come down to price. In the end, if Czarcie Kopyto is cheaper its a no brainer.

[Fiery]

Originally Posted by Les Ismore

These two pedals are genetically related (almost twins), so Its all going to come down to price. In the end, if Czarcie Kopyto is cheaper its a no brainer.

Not if it feels worse. And it does look very, very heavy.

[sinol]

CK is cheaper because it's making in Poland (only for order). If it was mass production in USA CK would cost two times more than axis I think.

[Pavlos]

Originally Posted by Les Ismore

Speed King's springs get compressed inside the pedal posts, TRICK has a different action happening- one small coil working horizontally (see second pic of this post). Still in the post, still gets compressed, but 'different'.

Cool. I always thought the Trick was in the post like the SK. Thanks for the pics.

[diosdude]

Originally Posted by sinol

CK is cheaper because it's making in Poland (only for order). If it was mass production in USA CK would cost two times more than axis I think.

Looks like somebody probably failed his economics class (and English class, no offense). Considering economies of scale, if you have 2 similar items, one hand made to order and one mass produced, the mass produced item will make it to market at a lower unit cost. It's cheaper in Poland because is manufactured there. Axis and Trick are more expensive in Poland because they are imported, subjected to shipping/ freight charges and tariffs that must be passed on to the customer. In the USA, that pedal would probably be more than $1000 for any of us to get our hands on it. Case in point, look how much it is to buy a Sonor Giant step double pedal here in the states. Trick and Axis blow away the Sonor for value.

[diosdude]

Originally Posted by Les Ismore

Sorry, it does have a coil spring, so does TRICK, Speed King and Ghost... all coil springs.

Heel hinge bearings make it better than TRICK.

Yes but the Trick has a couple features that make it better than Devil's hoof. Looks like you have to remove the devil's hoof from the bass drum every time to adjust the spring tension. You can dial in your spring tension much faster on the trick without ever having to move the pedal. You can also adjust the distance of the entire drive assembly in relation to the drum head, one more adjustment in favor of the Trick. As far as the pin argument vs bearings in the heel hinge, that's a good point, theoretically, friction could be reduced even further by installing bearings there. It's totally subjective, but IMO compression spring action is better that stretch spring action. I have a few suggestions to improve on the Trick's design that come from competitor models: sonic hammer mallets like the axis AL-2's, a clip on the footboard to mount the "L" shaped drum key like the Pearl Demon, spurs, in addition to the industrial strength velcro, A docking station, like the Sonor Giant Steps that allow for quick mounting and dismounting from the bass drum hoops, and different configurations, specifically a left handed model and a middle double pedal like the Sonor gtep middle/ sleishman double or off-set.

[Les Ismore]

I have a few suggestions to improve on the Trick's design that come from competitor models: ... A docking station, like the Sonor Giant Steps that allow for quick mounting and dismounting from the bass drum hoops

What could be quicker than the TRICK spring loaded lever for detaching from the BD hoop?

Docking Station is only good if you use the same bass drum every time.

Here's one for SONOR- Make Docking Station 'modular optional', useable on the pedal as well as left on the hoop. Extra Docking Stations are $50 and @ $999 for a Giant Step double its getting a little krazy.

[diosdude]

Originally Posted by Les Ismore

I have a few suggestions to improve on the Trick's design that come from competitor models: ... A docking station, like the Sonor Giant Steps that allow for quick mounting and dismounting from the bass drum hoops

What could be quicker than the TRICK spring loaded lever for detaching from the BD hoop?

Docking Station is only good if you use the same bass drum every time.

Nah, man, docking station is the fastest way to mount a pedal to a drum especially since there's no spurs on the trick, as soon as it touches the carpet, it's stuck in place. Then you gotta lift up the front of your bass drum and drag it to the pedal, excaserbated by the bass drum spurs dragging or if rack toms are in the way of the bass drum (trust me, i have a huge drum cage with this problem and i have to go through this pain in the arse every time i mount my TRICK). With the docking station, you basically just have to get the bass drum where you want it to be and viola! 2 seconds later, the pedal is in place without the aggravation. Additional docking stations are like 48 bucks i think, which is nothing for somebody who can buy a 700 dollar (or in the case of the GMP-4 middle, $1300) pedal. Hell if the trick offered it as standard on the detonator, every single one of my bass drums (6 total for 4 kits) would have the docking station mounted on the bass drum.

[Les Ismore]

With the docking station, you basically just have to get the bass drum where you want it to be and viola!

Like I said, only good if its your bass drum and there's a Docking Station already lined-up on the hoop. I have a Giant Step, I know all about Docking Station. Its a little chore to center perfectly on the hoop and practically 'unless' it stays on the hoop.

If you travel and play rented sets, Docking Station is not happening and more trouble than its worth. That's the exact situation you need quick on and off; when its not your set to strike... pedal off and you get the hell out, no removing a silly Docking Station.

[Pavlos]

Originally Posted by Les Ismore

With the docking station, you basically just have to get the bass drum where you want it to be and viola!

Like I said, only good if its your bass drum and there's a Docking Station already lined-up on the hoop. I have a Giant Step, I know all about Docking Station. Its a little chore to center perfectly on the hoop and practically 'unless' it stays on the hoop.

I also use the giant step. I have a docking station on each of my bass drums and it works great in that application. I didn't find it hard to center and they never come off or get loose. They're solid. Makes setting up quicker and easier too.

However, I agree, if youhave to use your pedal on lots of different bass drums it's probably not the best idea. For me it it's prefect.

[Les Ismore]

I also use the giant step. I have a docking station on each of my bass drums and it works great in that application. I didn't find it hard to center

Me- Im pretty anal about having docking station (or something semi-permanent) mounted 'perfectly', especially docking station and that means all gaps on docking station equal... takes me a little bit of adjusting to get get docking station 'perfectly' aligned.

If its 'off' a 1mm anywhere I can see it, and then know the pedal isn't perfectly flat on the floor when it could/should be.



Looks like you have to remove the devil's hoof from the bass drum every time to adjust the spring tension.

KOPYTO's sping tension adjust and hoop clamp wing nut are both right next to each other on the outside of the post.


You can dial in your spring tension much faster on the trick

Faster than AXIS fo sho, but KOPYTO's spring tension looks pretty user friendly



You can also adjust the distance of the entire drive assembly in relation to the drum head, one more adjustment in favor of the Trick.


This IMO is probably the best extra-feature on the TRICK, I don't see why the KOPYTO gang couldn't put something like this in their design.

[yamaha]

Actually, you can move the clamp on the base of the CK, actually, you can make more adjustments on the CK than on the trick, look at the manual. Looks really nice to me, and I see no advantages to compression springs such as in the Trick, I challenge you to give me a valid reason as to why compression spring is better!

[Deathmetalconga]

These are very beautiful, well-made pedals. It is clear they're made in a high-quality production shop. I wish I could play one. They look like precision instruments and the pedal hinge bearings show great attention to detail.

Also, I think your English is just fine for what you need to say here. Thanks for sharing with us.

[IL DUCE]

Clearly these pedals were inspiried by trick. But I'll be honest with you That website has the absolute worse proof reader ever, I don't know about you guys but it look like every word on that page was spelled wrong to me. Shheeh.

[Les Ismore]

Actually, you can move the clamp on the base of the CK, actually, you can make more adjustments on the CK than on the trick, look at the manual.


Who reads manuals?

I didn't, would if I was buying one (CK) though.

Looks like its adjustable... nice, AXIS needs this too. ☟



.................................................. .....................

[yamaha]

Originally Posted by Les Ismore

Actually, you can move the clamp on the base of the CK, actually, you can make more adjustments on the CK than on the trick, look at the manual.


Who reads manuals?

I didn't, would if I was buying one (CK) though.

Thats true, i never read manuals unless i dont own something and really want to know how it works, so thats why I read it, thins pedal looks awesome, It even has power adjustment like the axis( not infinite, but 5 places) and infinite pedal board angle adjustment, as someone pointed out earlier.

That is certainly a slick pedal! Aesthetically handsome and it definitely means business. If I lived in or near Poland, I would certainly get one.

As far as it being 'better' than Trick or Axis, well the whole idea of 'better' is just a dumb argument. It can only be 'different', and those differences may be better suited for certain players. 'Better' is entirely subjective in the world of drum gear, and is merely an opinion.

My opinion is that Axis is better than all other pedals.... Why? Because I have Axis pedals. Whenever people ask 'What is the best?" around here, the replies are almost always an owner saying what they own is the best. All subjective. My stuff is better than your stuff and even though I haven't actually tried the other stuff I will still say my stuff is better, because it is mine! OK, I am just teasing.... My Axis pedals aren't better. They are just different from these Czarcie Kopyto and the Trick.

(My Axis ARE better than that Pearl demondrive though... What is up with that stupid bump on the footboard? UGHH! LOL!) :)

[Blastphemer]

Hello Everybody !
Did you heard about CZARCIE KOPYTO pedals ? (Devil's Hoof in english)
Now INFERNO of BEHEMOTH and a lot of other drummers are endorsed by those pedals !
It's a mix of AXIS and TRICKS, and they are cheaper, but I Don't know where to buy those babies ?!

[Les Ismore]

We talked about em a year ago, don't think anyone here bought one, or they would have been crowing about already.

[Blastphemer]

Owww, sorry...


Owww, sorry...

[joeysnare]

krimh from the band decapitated is using em for recording their new album, he say's they have a lot of power but are quite heavy.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBFsql9H3mk

[Th0rn]

Please join Czarcie Kopyto on http://czarciekopyto.com/index.php?lang=en

This is very similar pedal to Axis...I think...maybe better :)

[jammy313]

look cool like a cross between axis and trick. how much are they im in the market for pedals like this

[Sinmara]

Sorry to drag this thread up again, I wonder if anybody on here has used them by now?

It doesn't say how much they are on their website, but I imagine they are pretty expensive :(