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  #41  
Old 01-16-2010, 01:34 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Good post boomstick.

I agree that playing in bands might be too limiting for someone like Bozzio. I remember reading that Bozzio was a little reluctant to play with Jeff Beck and set some musical conditions for doing it - like no call-and-response type jammy stuff.

Just to contrast that idea with one equally valid, I also remember reading where Stuart Copeland refused to do anything that might resemble a drum solo. He thought they were completely pointless and tacky.

There's two very influential, virtuoso, and creative drummers, from the same era, with very different views on the role of drums within (or without) a musical context.
Thanks man. As it happens, Copeland was a pretty big influence on me. I really liked how he developed a more innovative approach to drumming in pop music. When I come up with a drum part for an original song, I often think of his arrangements.
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  #42  
Old 01-16-2010, 01:57 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

When I was younger, I remember a number of drummers that were probably the most accomplished at their craft, and went way beyond the music style they played to show off their abilities. I'm sure guys like Benny Goodman and Glen Miller did not originally care for their over playing but eventually accepted them as superstars of the drum kit. And they would not have qualified as good session drummers by some people's standards around here. I'm talking, of course, about guys like Rich, Krupa and Belson. But honestly, what is wrong with drummers jumping the tracks and becoming more than the sum of their band members? Who says we cannot have any of these in modern times? Sometimes I think we over analyze things, get too sensitive to other musician's opinions, or get conditioned like pavlovs dog to take the role of a background musician per the instructions of studio engineers and producers. I really don't understand why guys that try to break that mold get criticized for it, especially by fellow drummers.
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  #43  
Old 01-16-2010, 02:18 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Good post boomstick.

I agree that playing in bands might be too limiting for someone like Bozzio. I remember reading that Bozzio was a little reluctant to play with Jeff Beck and set some musical conditions for doing it - like no call-and-response type jammy stuff.

Just to contrast that idea with one equally valid, I also remember reading where Stuart Copeland refused to do anything that might resemble a drum solo. He thought they were completely pointless and tacky.

There's two very influential, virtuoso, and creative drummers, from the same era, with very different views on the role of drums within (or without) a musical context.
No call and response??? shurley that would let him be more creative....?

And i tell you what polly, that link is more like it, i can listen to that, soonds exelent.

And i am just loving thoes speedos he's wearing...... a class act.

Im becoming converted.
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  #44  
Old 01-16-2010, 02:29 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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No call and response??? shurley that would let him be more creative....?
I think he was more concerned about not wanting to play a cliche form. If it's been done to death (or even done at all in some cases), chances are TB won't go near it.
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  #45  
Old 01-16-2010, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

Boomstick, you put that so well!


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Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
When I was younger, I remember a number of drummers that were probably the most accomplished at their craft, and went way beyond the music style they played to show off their abilities. I'm sure guys like Benny Goodman and Glen Miller did not originally care for their over playing but eventually accepted them as superstars of the drum kit. And they would not have qualified as good session drummers by some people's standards around here. I'm talking, of course, about guys like Rich, Krupa and Belson. But honestly, what is wrong with drummers jumping the tracks and becoming more than the sum of their band members? Who says we cannot have any of these in modern times? Sometimes I think we over analyze things, get too sensitive to other musician's opinions, or get conditioned like pavlovs dog to take the role of a background musician per the instructions of studio engineers and producers. I really don't understand why guys that try to break that mold get criticized for it, especially by fellow drummers.
It's just taste, Doctor. Taste with a touch of musical realpolitik. The thing about guys like Buddy, Gene and Louie (add Tony to the list) is they didn't just break the mold, they broke it amazingly well. These are not people who overplay but virtuosos who had so much to give that they overflowed. It's perfectly possible to love the playing of masters without getting a kick out of sloppy imitations.


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Originally Posted by AnimalBeats
And i tell you what polly, that link is more like it, i can listen to that, soonds exelent.
That was my fave number on Sheik Yerbouti. Killer track, eh?

Here's some smooth Terry playing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uo_dqfvP9k.

And here's some even smoother Terry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfdrxtho27o. Check out his cymbal work, especially when supporting the soloists. That's super tasty playing IMO. As a side note, Eddie Jobson's solo in the second link is my fave synth solo. Pity about the song's title, though lol
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  #46  
Old 01-16-2010, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

There have been so many stylistic phases in Bozzio's career that saying one does not like his rhythms needs to be explained in far more detail. For example, what was it one did not like about his rhythms with the Brecker Brothers? The album he did with them was pretty raw sounding, very punk. How about when he replaced Bruford in UK, what was wrong with his rhythms on Danger money? What did he do wrong on Rendevous 602? What was wrong with his Zappa stuff, such as on Disco boy? Or his Mike Clark inspired work with Missing Persons? What is wrong with his orchestral playing?

Just wondering.

Last edited by wy yung; 01-16-2010 at 02:49 PM.
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  #47  
Old 01-16-2010, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

We are commenting on art. If he does not do it for you thats cool. There is no need to Tell everyone about it.
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  #48  
Old 01-16-2010, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

I'm not a big fan of some of his solo's, however i enjoy his playing within the band ( Missing Persons and Zappa). For someone that has covered such a wide spectrum, it would be unfair to say i disliked him based on hearing very little of his work. On a side note, i'm sure Phil Rudd is quite capable of playing more than what he presents on any given AC/DC recording.
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  #49  
Old 01-16-2010, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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We are commenting on art. If he does not do it for you thats cool. There is no need to Tell everyone about it.

Sorry mate think you are totaly wrong; forums are all about feedom of speech and the expression of opinnion. There have been some exelent points made, and a good debate not only on bozzio, but on the nature of drumming and its aplications as a whole. Being educated to some of his (earlier) work has lead to a new found respect for the man. This thread has been posted off topic so as not to interfere with drummerworlds main topics, and although it was initaily negative, the response has been well structured and thought provoking.
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  #50  
Old 01-16-2010, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Being educated to some of his (earlier) work has lead to a new found respect for the man.
I love when this happens. There are several drummers, like Bozzio, that fall into the category of "Their drumming is larger than my musical listening experience".

Colaiuto, Steve Smith, Dunsbar and Bruford come to mind. I'm sure there are many others.

My first experience with these drummers was a new experience for me, but only a musical milestone for them within the realm of music that they participated in.

This sometimes hindered my appreciation (or lack thereof) because I had a less informed understanding of their musical relevance.

When I first noticed Vinnie Colaiuto, he was plaing with Zappa. I was more insecure with my drumming ability and my own philosophies on music and musicianship. Vinnie C. was very intimidating to me. Zappa's music could be so complicated and Vinnie navigated the arrangements in such a way that was inspiring but also very humbling. I formed an initial opinion at first that I didn't like him because it wasn't the kind of music I preferred. Many years later when I started to notice his drumming credit on countless albums, I discovered a new found respect for his drumming.

The same was for Bozzio, although it was coincidence that he was also with Zappa, in that I couldn't relate to his ability and I chalked him up as another superfreak that Zappa found. My musical development hadn't evolved enough to help me understand that as lifelong musicians, that music was part of one of many phases in their own development.

It happens over and over. You like Dunsbar with Journey but maybe think the drumming sucks on Jefferson Starship's Freedom at Point Zero. (He played on that album)

Maybe you are initially turned off by Bruford's electronic stuff but think he's a God in King Crimson.

I'm a big fan of Steve Gadd. I think that his best parts have been the highly creative and very original parts he created in a recording context. He's a great drummer but I'm less than impressed when I watch him play with Clapton. His playing is excellent but just not what I initially started appreciating Gadd for, so I still hold a bit of that attitude.

Drummers that have a a unique and dinstinctive style that is ongoing and consistent are easier to formulate an opinion about that doesn't change so much over time.

Terry Bozzio is a drummer that almost every drummer can find something to like about if they take the time to listen.
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Last edited by TTNW; 01-16-2010 at 08:11 PM.
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  #51  
Old 01-16-2010, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

well said TTNW...........................................
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  #52  
Old 01-17-2010, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Originally Posted by ANIMALBEATS View Post
Sorry mate think you are totaly wrong; forums are all about feedom of speech and the expression of opinnion. There have been some exelent points made, and a good debate not only on bozzio, but on the nature of drumming and its aplications as a whole. Being educated to some of his (earlier) work has lead to a new found respect for the man. This thread has been posted off topic so as not to interfere with drummerworlds main topics, and although it was initaily negative, the response has been well structured and thought provoking.
ANIMALBEATS you are correct. I am a huge Bozzio fan. I have even met him and helped at a clinic back in the 90s, I got to play his kit. There is a lot of stuff Terry does that is hard to digest. I love some his work he did with Robbie Robertson, Jeff Becks guitar shop, and of course Zappa. Polytown is another good album.
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  #53  
Old 01-17-2010, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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To be honest, I am a Gretsch fan, myself, and enjoy listening to Watts - always have. But when I see threads lionizing the guy as one of the greatest, I cannot believe my eyes. I don't think Charlie himself would ever even classify himself as one of the greats. Neither would Phil Collins, Don Henley, Phil Rudd, etc. They all were famous drummers from legendary rock groups, but legendary great drummers, they are not.
Phil Collins? Really? Have you heard Foxtrot, or Nursery Cryme, or Selling England by the Pound, or The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway? Any of the Brand X recordings?

The guy is a progressive rock legend.

Sorry for the hijack.
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  #54  
Old 01-19-2010, 07:51 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Phil Collins? Really? Have you heard Foxtrot, or Nursery Cryme, or Selling England by the Pound, or The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway? Any of the Brand X recordings?

The guy is a progressive rock legend.
Yes, I see Phil's playing as being more like Terry's than it is like Phil's or Don's. He was scary with Brand X.
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  #55  
Old 01-19-2010, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Boomstick, your comment about Terry B coming across better live is spot on IMO. I was a long way back in a big hall and Terry was just a teenager at the time, and I was still blown away. If anyone has the chance to see him play live, I suggest you don't worry about his recordings and go see him. He's a huge talent and he conveys an insane level of excitement live.
Am I reading this correctly...? You saw Bozzio when he was still a teenager?? Wow that hasd to be awhile back now in his SF days I would guess?
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  #56  
Old 01-19-2010, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Am I reading this correctly...? You saw Bozzio when he was still a teenager?? Wow that hasd to be awhile back now in his SF days I would guess?
It was mid-70s FZ. Word was going around that Terry was a 19yo prodigy. Looking up Wikipedia now, this turns out to be BS. Not even I'm that old! It was 1974 or 75 so he would have been around 24yo

Sorry for the misinformation. This has happened to me a couple of times here, where things a group of people I hung out with in my youth turned out to be rubbish or urban myths. The other good one was about egg cartons and soundproofing. How about that? Hedonistic, pre-Internet teenage rock musos turn out not to be the most reliable source of information lol

If you can trust my memory after that, Terry was a powerhouse at that gig. I hadn't been exposed to a lot of high-level musicianship and his sound, power and speed blew me away. I was in love - until he started singing :)
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  #57  
Old 01-19-2010, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
It was mid-70s FZ. Word was going around that Terry was a 19yo prodigy. Looking up Wikipedia now, this turns out to be BS. Not even I'm that old! It was 1974 or 75 so he would have been around 24yo

Sorry for the misinformation. This has happened to me a couple of times here, where things a group of people I hung out with in my youth turned out to be rubbish or urban myths. The other good one was about egg cartons and soundproofing. How about that? Hedonistic, pre-Internet teenage rock musos turn out not to be the most reliable source of information lol

If you can trust my memory after that, Terry was a powerhouse at that gig. I hadn't been exposed to a lot of high-level musicianship and his sound, power and speed blew me away. I was in love - until he started singing :)

No worries on accuracy....that is great you got to see him with Frank though. I did not see Frank live till the Wackerman era ( which was also great).....Bozzio looked about 12 or so when he played with Zappa so it's easy to see where people might have thought him younger than he was and Zappa was always good for razzing his players. you are right though he was a powerhouse of a player in those days ...and his Missing Persons days....intense.

yeah his singing....Punky. etc....;-) LOL.
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  #58  
Old 01-20-2010, 09:42 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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No worries on accuracy....that is great you got to see him with Frank though. I did not see Frank live till the Wackerman era ( which was also great).....Bozzio looked about 12 or so when he played with Zappa so it's easy to see where people might have thought him younger than he was and Zappa was always good for razzing his players. you are right though he was a powerhouse of a player in those days ...and his Missing Persons days....intense.

yeah his singing....Punky. etc....;-) LOL.
Cheers Druid. God knows where that rumour came from - some over-active imagination, I expect :)

Chad is a monster too but you don't get Terry's showmanship. Napoleon Murphy Brock carried on a lot too. Terry is a buzz to see live. He needed to work hard, though, because Uncle Frank really cranks his guitar up. And yes, his vocals are punky and pretty damn unsexy IMO - but fun :)
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