Practise statement to discuss

[gusty]

"If you don't have the dedication to practice 8-12 hours a day for at least a large period of your life... then give up. You will not succeed."

What do you think about this?

[Garvin]

BS... Whose definition of success? Also, how the hell can anyone survive by practicing? No one has ever paid me a dime to practice. There are only 24 hours in a day.

[Funky Crêpe]

Originally Posted by gusty

"If you don't have the dedication to practice 8-12 hours a day for at least a large period of your life... then give up. You will not succeed."

What do you think about this?

who said that......must not have been a very economical person. Some days an hour of practice can do amazing things, other days you can practice for 5 hours and get no where, depends on the individual and what mood they are in

[gusty]

I haven't spoken to him in years, and when I did he was a very good young drummer so I guess he's gotten even better. I think he took his version of success (probably being a well known jazz drummer) and thought it was every one else's as well. My idea of success isn't as big as his - make a living as a drummer.

[Hedon]

i doubt anyone has the dedication to practice 12 hours a day consistently

keeping a 3-4 hours practice a day routine for a few years can make you a great drummer imo
but thats really hard
12 is just not realistic

[gusty]

Originally Posted by Hedon

i doubt anyone has the dedication to practice 12 hours a day consistently

keeping a 3-4 hours practice a day routine for a few years can make you a great drummer imo
but thats really hard
12 is just not realistic

It's possible. I read Wy Yung did something like 8-12 for a period of his life.

For the majority (me included) it would be impossible.

8-12 hours!?
I am a student, and studying an average 6-8 hours a day (classes included) is a must to get anywhere fast. Of course there's days where you only study one hour, and sometimes an impending deadline forces you to do 10-12. But this is so I can be a professional engineer. I imagine it could hold true for drummers who study at conservatory.

But if it's your hobby and you have no ambition to "make it big" (whatever that may mean) in the music scene? 1 hour is on the long side for most people in that case.

As a drum teacher, I am happy when I see a pupil practising for 30 minutes a day, about 4 days per week.

[JPW]

Originally Posted by Hedon

i doubt anyone has the dedication to practice 12 hours a day consistently

keeping a 3-4 hours practice a day routine for a few years can make you a great drummer imo
but thats really hard
12 is just not realistic

Depends how you define practice. Buddy Rich never practiced but played constantly with a band. But then again I'm not sure you can develope to a GREAT drummer without having also a great band without practicing. And either way it takes a lot of time.

But I think there just has to be a saturation point where your brain just can't take anymore input without sleep. And there certanly is a point where your muscles won't respond to any more practice and it's much earlier. I would think the saturation point is somewhere between 5-8 hours depending how you divide it and what you practice.

[Hedon]

Originally Posted by JPW

Depends how you define practice. Buddy Rich never practiced but played constantly with a band. But then again I'm not sure you can develope to a GREAT drummer without having also a great band without practicing. And either way it takes a lot of time.

But I think there just has to be a saturation point where your brain just can't take anymore input without sleep. And there certanly is a point where your muscles won't respond to any more practice and it's much earlier. I would think the saturation point is somewhere between 5-8 hours depending how you divide it and what you practice.

you have a good point there
practicing that much might actually have no effect after you pass some time barrier

[jimtyler]

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with this somewhat.
When I was 19 I was out of school, had quit college, and confused. I knew I wanted to be a drummer. I was decent in high school, and early bands, but it was 1970 and a lot was going on with music.
I decided to practice 8 hours a day like it was a regular job. I developed a practice routine that included at least an hour on hand technique, another hour on foot technique,, etc.
I did that for 10 months. By the end of that time I had a regular day job and had to cut practice down to 4 hours a day.
I look back at that time as when I truly became a drummer.

[arrowhen]

When someone talks about "success" without defining their terms, that's just silly.

But someone tells me I should *quit* just because I'm not using *their* methods to achieve *their* vision of "success"? Them's fightin' words.

[brownie1969]

If you NEED to practice 8-12 hours a day, to BECOME a good drummer.....then I'd say your playing the wrong instrument.

[Old Doc Yak]

I disagree with that completely. I've watched guys practice in all sorts of endeavors. You can only practice for a certain amount of time before fatigue sets in. Once that happens things begin to get sloppy and people tend to quit on a downer. One thing I've learned after years of working with horses is to quit practice on a positive note. Even if it's only twenty minutes, a half hour or an hour, when you get it right - quit on an up. Only my humble opinion.

[jon e rotten]

Well, I don't know the correct answer to this, but if you can stay focused on drumming for 12 hours a day I'd be really impressed.

[FourOnTheFloorTom]

I know both Terry Bozzio and Dave Weckl did long hours of practice during highschool and college --- Bozzio did a 6 to 8 hr schedule during the summer. Really, that's the only time one could do it: when your young and have nothing but time.

The bigger number is 10,000 hours. In the book "This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession" by Daniel J. Levitin, he sites numerous studies that found that to become a virtuoso at ANYTHING, you must put in at least 10,000 of real, effective practice. Some people, like Bozzio, got there quicker than others, but that 10,000 hr threshold seems to be the trick.

Another thing to consider is the idea of SPACED REPETITION. Many teachers believe that 20 min of practice every day on a concept is better that 3 hrs, once a week. The brain needs to be reminded over and over before it will fully grasp ideas. Very few people can learn new concept in depth in just one sitting.

tc

[Ian Williams]

Originally Posted by gusty

"If you don't have the dedication to practice 8-12 hours a day for at least a large period of your life... then give up. You will not succeed."

What do you think about this?

Weak mind!
Time is life, there are too many important things to do in 24 hours. Regarding drumming I aim for quality above > quantity.

[Funky Crêpe]

some peoplean learn something like the moeller technique in one sitting, it can happen.....for others it can take 6 or 7 months. It is all on the individual, maybe buddy didn't need to practice because he really was gods gift?? who knows, but certainly guys like weckl wouldn't be where they are today without doing that.

but, if weckl had stumbled on the moeller technique and that kind of fluidity earlier, who knows?.........like the saying goes...the better you get the luckier you get!

[DrumEatDrum]

Depends on what one means by "large portion" and "success".

I spent a year at PIT, and I would easily spend 8 to 12 hours a day on drumming, between classes, lessons, workshops and practice.

Is a year a large portion? I don't know. Does that count as 8 to 12 hours? It depends on your perspective.

Success is largely a relative term. Are we talking income? Making a full time living? Or just artistic success? If you record an album that doesn't get released, you still had the skills to perform properly on the recording, but it's hard to say it's a "success".

And of course, different people learn at different rates. I once had a student who took weeks to learn just to learn one beat, while another kid the same age could learn anything I threw at him with in minutes.

As for dedicating 8-12 hours a day, it does happen. People like Weckl, Bozzio, and the such do practice that much. But in part, because they can.

It's the problem when at the time of being younger up and comer, is the guys that get a well paying gig/tour/band situations can afford to practice all day long in between tours/shows/albums, while the rest of us are busy working day jobs trying to make rent, which cuts into available practice time.

[theindian]

Another thing to think about is, What are your goals playing wise, & what skills do you need to achieve them. If you are shooting for virtuoso level, wfd, crazy 4 way independance, and berklee grad, then 8 hours a day might be required. If your goal is to play drums proficiently in a group setting, as a time keeper/groovemiester, then there is no reason to practice 8 or more hrs a day.

At one point I was consistently getting a 4 hour a day practice. I really imrpoved during that period, and learned a lot, but at times I found myself going into territory that was way beyond any chops/grooves that I would realisticly use in a group setting. It can get tough to be creative and keep your session fresh, it is easy to become overly repetitive.
I am lucky to get an hour in every day now since I started my new job. Its not as long but its consistent and it keeps me interested.

[donv]

Originally Posted by gusty

"If you don't have the dedication to practice 8-12 hours a day for at least a large period of your life... then give up. You will not succeed."

What do you think about this?

Wow! I'd say whoever came up with this was trying to convince themself of something. I will say this though, 8 to 12 hours a day may not be a necessity, but it sure as heck isn''t going to hurt anyone either. Then again, a lot of someones playing is their personality, experiences and life skills and if all someone is doing is practicing then they need to get a life to improve and expand upon their personality, experiences and life skills. There's a lot more to being a musician then playing an instrument.

[gusty]

I don't disagree that if you really want to be a great player then that is what would be required. I didn't like it because he assumed I wanted what I can really only dream of, what he may be able to achieve. And if I did put in that many hours, I think I would end up hating drums, because I would miss out on so many things in life that I like. Interestingly, after we had this discussion (over 2 years ago) I started my 1 hour a day practise routine. While it wasn't inspiraring, it did get me angry enough to start practise, which seems to be the way things happen for me sometimes.

[nocTurnal]

Originally Posted by FourOnTheFloorTom

I know both Terry Bozzio and Dave Weckl did long hours of practice during highschool and college --- Bozzio did a 6 to 8 hr schedule during the summer. Really, that's the only time one could do it: when your young and have nothing but time.

The bigger number is 10,000 hours. In the book "This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession" by Daniel J. Levitin, he sites numerous studies that found that to become a virtuoso at ANYTHING, you must put in at least 10,000 of real, effective practice. Some people, like Bozzio, got there quicker than others, but that 10,000 hr threshold seems to be the trick.

Another thing to consider is the idea of SPACED REPETITION. Many teachers believe that 20 min of practice every day on a concept is better that 3 hrs, once a week. The brain needs to be reminded over and over before it will fully grasp ideas. Very few people can learn new concept in depth in just one sitting.

tc

That sounds like a really interesting book. Thank you for mentioning it. I'll have to read it.

Like a lot of people already said, how can you have a life practicing 8-12 hours a day. I believe that you have to be very young to do that. Once you get into your 20s, it's very hard to do. I think it's possible. But you'd have to be living on very little. You'd have to work part time, have no debt, no gf (unless she's musician), live on the cheap somewhere, etc. I guess it depends on how bad you want it. I also heard that 20 minutes at a time on one subject is the best idea. Then take a 5 minute break and come back and start a new subject for another 20 minutes, etc.

I agree about the brain becoming "fatigued"... but I think you can do it if you build yourself up gradually. Boxers have to workout for hours and hours day after day leading up to a big fight. Or how about those actors in the new movie musical NINE. They rehearsed for 12 hours a day for two months before they even began filming.