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  #1  
Old 09-27-2009, 04:38 PM
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Default How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

hi guys,
so the title of the thread really says it all: how much would it change my playing (in bad or good ways) to get an Axis or Iron Cobra double pedal rather than the one ive got, wich cost lyk 50 or 60 euros and where the pedal is pretty much held together by tape =P? im including a picture of the pedal.
you might wonder why im asking this question. Well actually ive never really gotten the chance to use an Iron Cobra or anything lyk that so firsty i dont know the feel you have with those pedals. Secondly im sure they are much better than my 50 euro pedal, but they are expensive! and im planning to buy a new kit fr Christmas so im kinda wondering if its really use buying a pro pedal if i can already go up to 200-210 wit my good ol' taped pedal.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

I'm thinking if your pedal is adjusted properly, and it is in working order, a better pedal will help you only minimally. Advertising will make you believe you can be a lot better. I think more expensive gear may be built better and last longer but still think it will have a minimal affect on your playing. You can also look to buy better, used, if that will make you happier. You may also want to put a bit of carpet under your set to keep if from creeping across the floor.
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Old 09-27-2009, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

yeah well if it was in working order it wouldnt have tape on it..... i dont believe in all the advertizing and thats exactly why i was asking u guys cause ive seen some guys with Axis longboards and Co. and i thought u could give me your opinion on if they really have a better feel and if u get more speed, etc. Well in some way im askin if its really worth spending 600 euros for a double pedal that doesnt really make your performances better.
and yes i will put sumthing on the floor. it gets real annoying to have my kit roaming around the room when i start playing double pedal.
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Old 09-27-2009, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

It's not about having a "top of the line" pedal. It's about having a pedal which doesn't limit you (rust, loose bolts etc.) A top of the line pedal won't make you better, a crap pedal will just make you worse. Am I making sense?
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Old 09-27-2009, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

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Originally Posted by Ironcobra View Post
It's not about having a "top of the line" pedal. It's about having a pedal which doesn't limit you (rust, loose bolts etc.) A top of the line pedal won't make you better, a crap pedal will just make you worse. Am I making sense?
Agreed. People seem to think that a top of the line pedal is a magic bullet that will instantly make you able to play faster and with more control. Not true. All that is necessary is a pedal that is reliable and functional. I found that a Pearl P-100 pedal (a relatively budget model six or seven years ago) is about as 'good' as you'll ever need for anything. I play a DW5000 - which is a really great pedal, but I'm not any worse when I play on a P-100. In fact, the lightness of the P-100 gives it a much easier playing action in many regards. I use the DW because I like the added smoothness, but I can play with both equally well.

One of my pedals costs twice as much as the other. Both are great.

With regards to double pedals, there is so much bad science out there it is unbelievable. Just buy a well-made good-quality pedal and it will be as good for you as any other. One of my P-100s is a double. It's a good double pedal, I just don't use it much any more because I have no call for double bass. All this nonsense about floating cams and improved action, etc is just bad marketing science that makes little to no difference in the Real World.
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Old 09-27-2009, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

yeah that makes sense, its true i feel like i cant give all ive got most of the time; also the slave pedal feels extremely loose... ive tried everything, playing around with all the springs, all that stuff but nothing seemed to help.
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Old 09-27-2009, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat View Post
Agreed. People seem to think that a top of the line pedal is a magic bullet that will instantly make you able to play faster and with more control. Not true. All that is necessary is a pedal that is reliable and functional.

ok thanks for the info, well then id really be needing a pedal which is "reliable and functional" because at the moment with the taped pedal i dont seem to be getting anywhere. Dont get me wrong, im not blaming the pedal because i cant get past a certain speed but i think its holding me back from getting speedier. Or maybe i just reached my limit and i just wont be able to to double bass faster than 210, even with a top of the line pedal that could be it aswell.
So what dyou suggest? should i just try to get the pedal repared? Or try getting another cheap pedal?
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Old 09-27-2009, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

Save up and get a better, more reliable pedal. Pedals held together with tape will make a difference one way or another. Don't buy another cheap one - buy something of good quality; just not necessarily top of the line. Pearl make great mid-level pedals. I know plenty of guys who play mid-level pedals. I even know a guy who plays a Camco from the 1970s and swears by it - he has very good foot technique.

More often it's the technique and not the pedal that's holding a player back. In the case of a taped up pedal, it's entirely possible that the pedal might have something to do with it, but I doubt it's the sole cause of your lack of progress.
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Old 09-27-2009, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

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Originally Posted by DrummerBoy95 View Post
ok thanks for the info, well then id really be needing a pedal which is "reliable and functional" because at the moment with the taped pedal i dont seem to be getting anywhere. Dont get me wrong, im not blaming the pedal because i cant get past a certain speed but i think its holding me back from getting speedier. Or maybe i just reached my limit and i just wont be able to to double bass faster than 210, even with a top of the line pedal that could be it aswell.
So what dyou suggest? should i just try to get the pedal repared? Or try getting another cheap pedal?
Hey if you are doing 16ths at 210 with a crappy pedal I wouldn't be complaining..I would keep those pedals! I have pearl eliminators and I can't crack 200 yet.
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

A pedal should be comfortable for you. The fact that your pedal is held together WITH TAPE should be enough of an indicator that you might want to get a new pedal. Or at least replace the broken parts on your current one. Part of buying a pro-level pedal is to get a longer life out of it (that means no tape/broken parts). Get your feet on as many pedals as you can. If you know other drummers, try their pedals out. Forget so much about the price. If you play a pedal, and it feels really good to you, that's what matters. Of course, stay within' your budget. Doesn't do you any good to fall in love with the $400 pedal, only to go home with a $99 one, because that's all you can afford. But inversely, don't buy a $400 pedal simply because it costs more than the $200 one, if the $200 one feels better to you.
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

A lot of it has to do with feel too. Just because they are expensive doesnt always mean that you will play it better.....In my case, I went to my local GC and played all of the pedals that I had been looking at,( iron cobra, pearl demon drive, DW).....I was set on the Pearl demon drive, only because I had heard it was durable,fast and an over-all great pedal....until I played it!!.....long story short, I ended up buying a DW9000 because it felt perfect for ME. It was $550 vs. $750 for the Pearls. Depending upon your playing style and preference, you might be able to get by with a less expensive pedal...I would STRONGLY recomend playing as many pedals as you can before you envest.


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Old 09-28-2009, 03:14 AM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

No help whatsoever in my case anyways. I can play just as good/bad on my 330 dollar iron cobras as i can on a 150 dollar dw pedal. I do suggest getting a new pedal if your current pedal is limeting your playing.
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Old 09-28-2009, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

hey guys,
thanks alot for all the feedback, u guys are the best. So Ive decided that whenever i go to a shop, im just gonna play on all the pedals there and see which one feels the best. im not looking towards buying a pedal right now (my taped pedal still works =P) so i think ill have more time to try out a bunch of different pedals. 1 last question what do you guys mean when you talk about "Longboards"? does it mean the pedal is longer and if yes what does it change?
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Old 09-29-2009, 05:13 AM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

On a shortboard pedal, the footboard is split at the heel. On a longboard pedal, the footboard goes all the way to the back. On the long board you have a larger playing surface, that lets you play with your foot further back on the pedal for higher speed.

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Shortboard:
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Old 09-29-2009, 05:55 AM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
A pedal should be comfortable for you. The fact that your pedal is held together WITH TAPE should be enough of an indicator that you might want to get a new pedal. Or at least replace the broken parts on your current one. Part of buying a pro-level pedal is to get a longer life out of it (that means no tape/broken parts). Get your feet on as many pedals as you can. If you know other drummers, try their pedals out. Forget so much about the price. If you play a pedal, and it feels really good to you, that's what matters. Of course, stay within' your budget. Doesn't do you any good to fall in love with the $400 pedal, only to go home with a $99 one, because that's all you can afford. But inversely, don't buy a $400 pedal simply because it costs more than the $200 one, if the $200 one feels better to you.
Something else to think about is the longevitiy of a more expensive pedal which Harry brings up. I have been playing the same DW5000 pedals singe 1997. They are single chains and have lasted 14 years. I have though of upgrading to the 9000 series briefly but don't see the benefit over what I have.


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Old 09-29-2009, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

I played a gig with someone else's DW 9000 doubles, and now I have DW 9000's. It was all about feel for me.
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:40 AM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

For practicing, I'd say go with a not-awesome pedal. You never know when you're going to have to play someone else's set and who knows? They might have an absolutely terrible pedal rig. If you're used to a really good pedal, then I'd say you're screwed. However, from my experience, if you practice with a crappy pedal then move up to a good-quality pedal, it's like running after taking ankle weights off. Really phenomenal. Granted, for playing gigs, a good (not necessarily top-of-the-line) pedal is beneficial, but I'd say don't become dependent on them.

(In other words, don't be one of those people who compensates for lack of technique with money. Using a less-than-par pedal will get you some great foot technique.)
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

An expensive, top of the line pedal, won't make you play better; but it will make your life easier. I'd rather have my equipment assist in doing work for me than fighting me. Pedals are like computers. A good computer should respond to your inputs quickly while a budget computer leaves you irritated and behind in your task. I know that's a dumb example, but drum pedals are the only element of a drum kit that has moving parts. If it were up to me I'd want a quality, well made pedal with these parts giving me the best possible advantage.
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

IMHO

Trick are the best for me, but if you find that not to be true for you, then you are correct as well.

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Old 09-30-2009, 02:41 AM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat View Post
Agreed. People seem to think that a top of the line pedal is a magic bullet that will instantly make you able to play faster and with more control. Not true. All that is necessary is a pedal that is reliable and functional. I found that a Pearl P-100 pedal (a relatively budget model six or seven years ago) is about as 'good' as you'll ever need for anything. I play a DW5000 - which is a really great pedal, but I'm not any worse when I play on a P-100. In fact, the lightness of the P-100 gives it a much easier playing action in many regards. I use the DW because I like the added smoothness, but I can play with both equally well.

One of my pedals costs twice as much as the other. Both are great.

With regards to double pedals, there is so much bad science out there it is unbelievable. Just buy a well-made good-quality pedal and it will be as good for you as any other. One of my P-100s is a double. It's a good double pedal, I just don't use it much any more because I have no call for double bass. All this nonsense about floating cams and improved action, etc is just bad marketing science that makes little to no difference in the Real World.

Ya the double pedal you have now is in poor condition if its being held up by tape. If your looking for a new double pedal just don't buy one with out trying it out. find one that works well for you. i would look into some pedals by pearl like the eliminator series or iron cobras by tama.
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Old 09-30-2009, 05:14 AM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

One of the things that I try looking for is something that has parts readily available for repair. I call it my 7-11 philosophy. I want something that I can find a part for at a 7-11. Am I exagerating, probably but I want to have dependable gear that doesn't take a month's wait or longer to get a crucial part for.


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Old 09-30-2009, 06:06 AM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironcobra View Post
It's not about having a "top of the line" pedal. It's about having a pedal which doesn't limit you (rust, loose bolts etc.) A top of the line pedal won't make you better, a crap pedal will just make you worse. Am I making sense?
Makes sense. Provided the pedal is reliable and fixable (just in case carry spares) all is fine. Back in the day (1978) i preferred the Ludwig Speedking over the more expensive Ghost pedal. What really matters is that you have a pedal that feels right to you an can play well. Throwing more money does not necessarily mean you are a better player. I.E.: A better racecar driver with a slower car will usually beat a lesser driver who has a faster car.

On the other side of the coin, a pedal with more adjustability may allow you to grow as a player to achieve the best you can. This is why i loved the old Pearl EDP ???? pedal at first because you could adjust... everything. It was a geek-engineer's dream of sorts, though i heard one of the reasons they discontinued it is that some people adjusted them so far out of whack it was hard to get back to square 1.

Using the Tama Cobra dual setup now cuz that is what came with the set, had to mod them a bit tho.
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

i play two double pedals. one of them is my iron cobra. it's nice and smooth and fast, and it's adjusted just the way i like it. the other is an el-cheapo PDP double pedal set up on the kit in my band's practice room. it belongs to the drummer from the other band who also uses the practice room and lets me use his junky kit. i can play most things reasonably well with either pedal, but when it comes to really fast articulate playing, my tama pedal definitely has an edge. it's not a huge edge, but the tama pedal is noticeably smoother and more responsive.
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Old 10-03-2009, 04:54 AM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

a piece of sh!t pedal will feel like a piece of sh!t under your feet, whatever brand it is. tryout as many different pedals as you can and see what feels good under your feet and feels good to you.

yeah, some pedals are more expensive than others, and some are WAY OVER PRICED. but finding a good QUALITY pedal without breaking the bank ain't that hard!!
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Old 10-06-2009, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miraclemanays View Post
An expensive, top of the line pedal, won't make you play better; but it will make your life easier. I'd rather have my equipment assist in doing work for me than fighting me. Pedals are like computers. A good computer should respond to your inputs quickly while a budget computer leaves you irritated and behind in your task. I know that's a dumb example, but drum pedals are the only element of a drum kit that has moving parts. If it were up to me I'd want a quality, well made pedal with these parts giving me the best possible advantage.
I definately agree with this. And to all of those who say you should be able to play good on anything. In an ideal world yes and i can get by on just about any setting. But if you come to playing a pedal that is as far away from your pedal set up as you can get, you are going to see your performance hindered no matter what anyone says because it has happened to me. It doesn't matter how expensive or what brand it is it's how it works for you!

Here's a good example, i went to the drum shop one day in Newcastle and one of the guys working there had just bought a Trick Pro V1 pedal for god knows how much and he loved them. A couple of month later i was testing out pedals for myself and i started playing the Pearl P-902. I then got talking to another guy that worked there about the other guys trick pedals. And he said to me, he is thinking about selling them and buying two of those pedals that you are playing. That says it all really, there is a major price difference between tricks and pearls and most people would probably would say that that is crazy but hey they obviously clicked more with him than the tricks! So yeah find what feels comfortable!
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

I started playing again this year after almost 15 years of no drums at all. It's been slow go but I've found that upgrading is helping me to be efficient. I always used a single Ludwig Speed King pedal and my right foot is pretty strong but I just bought an Axis XL single for 179 and it's been like going from a Olds to a Cadillac...

Hardware is a vehicle, it's a tool that should work for YOU. Otherwise, YOU are the tool. Just like a computer, it is only as accurate as it's operator - garbage in, garbage out. This new pedal will take getting used to but I think it's a great investment. Most places have good return policies so don't be afraid to get something and try it out.

Good luck,

Jiva
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

I have axis double pedals. I was at the local drum store today and tried out the DW 9000
double pedal. I put a hold on one I will be picking up next week. I also have DW5000 double pedal from the late 80s. I think that pedal smokes the Axis pedal. Somthing about the direct drive that i don;t like. I have been using them for years trying to convince myself
that its me not the pedals. Back to DW.
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:44 AM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

I bought my then-top-of-the-line Yamaha double bass pedal in 1992 when i commited myself to learning how to play double bass. To this day, it's solid as a rock and silky smooth and comfortable. I practiced double bass blast beats 2-6 hours/ day, 3-6 days per week for almost 2 years straight. My limit for sustained speed was 192 bpm sixteenth notes over a 32 bar phrase. I stayed at that plateau from 1994 to Dec 2007 when i "upgraded" to a Trick detonator pro1v-2 bigfoot. I've increased my speed to 216 bpm. About a 12% gain in speed. $740 USD for +24bpm. WORTH EVERY HARD EARNED PENNY TO ME. If I could spend another $740 to get a pedal to take me up another 10bpm, I'd charge it to my credit card right this second. I haven't seen anything else on the market that comes close to my Trick though. The cool thing is though (and some people may get bent out of shape over this) I can now play about 204-206 bpm on my old yamahas. So yes. The Trick made me a faster drummer. (before anybody tries to shoot that statement down, read the part where i stayed on that plateau for 13 years playing the same pedal).
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: How much does having a "pro" double pedal help you?

hey guys,
thanks alot for all of the feedback. next time i get the opportunity, im gonna go to a shop and try out all of their pedals from A to Z, and i wont care for the price or the brand, and ill try to find the pedal that feels right for me. ive allways had a hard time choosing gear.... the only problem is that over here, the only gear we get is the gear that is imported from the states, and most of the time its sold at prices that reach the double of what you would normally be paying in the USA i think.
What i do think is that i have to get rid of that taped pedal. i went to a shop the other day to get it repaired but the guys couldnt do anything, they just said "oh well, you should check out these Iron Cobras" ...
the only good thing about this pedal is that its gonna be easier for me to play fast as soon as i get a new pedal, since ive been practicing with a taped pedal =P
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