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  #1  
Old 09-11-2009, 09:55 PM
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Default The pressure is on ☛

You know, honestly I think Im gonna wait on this one till they come out with a digital pressure gauge and adjustable LED brightness.

http://www.airlogic.com/
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Old 09-11-2009, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

hhm looks interesting will there be a direct drive could possibly get more interest. dont like the footplates at all
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Old 09-11-2009, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Shocks instead of springs. Interesting. And for 230.00 seems reasonable.
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Old 09-12-2009, 01:57 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Apart from the other things, I really don't fancy those footboards.
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Old 09-12-2009, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

wow, just wow! :)
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Old 09-12-2009, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

I just can't imagine very many people buying these. Like the PDP B.O.A. pedal and the Gibraltar Catapult. Sometimes "too weird" is just "too weird".....
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Old 09-12-2009, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

those footboards look like hell to play. What's wrong with a normal plate that actually gives you some space to place your foot on?
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Old 09-12-2009, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Tacky in the extreme.
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Old 09-12-2009, 02:25 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

well that sure is interesting.
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

I don't think that air would be any better than a spring, The exception being that the drummer would have more control of pedal tension by adjusting the air press. I can't see the pedal being any faster.
The downside is that there is more parts to break. KISS! (Keep It Simple Stupid!)
The main engineering beauty of the foot pedal is that it is a simple device that takes advantage of just about all of the laws of physics to work.
I really don't feel like monitoring the press on my pedals. It's just one more dumb thing to worry about. In 35 years of playing, I have never had a pedal fail. I wouldn't want to spoil that record!
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

"The more they overthink the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the drain" - Chief Engineering Officer Scotty.

Here's my simple 'old-faithful' Camco from 1983...
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Very cool and innovative. I would love to give these a try. I think it's great to see such experimentation and boundary pushing. Let's face it, Western plywood drums haven't changed much in 150 years and trap drums not much in 75+ years since Krupa got us started with lugs and hoops. The very first bass drum pedals are over 100 years old and were spring operated, like the ones today. The last big revolution was plastic heads in the 1950s! Looking at that record, it is easy to think drummers don't tend to embrace innovation. A breath of fresh air is welcome.

I think one downside of these might be, they wouldn't be as robust as spring pedals - you couldn't just toss them into the trap case. I have seen some pedals that use rare earth magnets instead of springs and those would be great also.
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  #13  
Old 09-14-2009, 08:35 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

The wife and I were kind of musing about these kinds of systems the other day (we are both cyclists and I grew up in an automotive eng family - the whole spring thing has been explored in those areas), but for controlling the rebound damping (as opposed to changing spring rate)
anyone remember those softride stems..that they eventually put a little damper shock on?
sort of like that


One thing I think that site neglects to mention (or maybe oversimplifies with "all" -- you CAN actually vary the rate of a coil spring (which is really just a wound up torsion bar) by varying the spacing in the coils.
I don't think it was intentional or particularly distorting from a 'typical product' standpoint - but not completely accurate in terms of allowing for a variety of solutions...and as long as we are getting gizmo... :D
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

I imagine this pedal playing just like the magnetic pedal.

It might be worth a try, but I wouldn't buy anything in 2009 that looks like it's from 1979.
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Quote....Let's face it, Western plywood drums haven't changed much in 150 years.

Gretsch invented ply drums in the 1920's so they are really only 80 some years old, but point well taken. I too would like to try the pedal.
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

If it aint broke, don't fix it

There's a reason drum gear hasn't changed much over the years.
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  #17  
Old 09-15-2009, 12:33 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

I think there have been many subtle changes. Wood types, cross layering of wood plies, types of heads, cymbal lathing and hammering, shock resistant sticks, plastic "wood" blocks, double pedals, 2.3 mm rims, s-hoops. Many many changes but nothing drastic.
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:40 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

How many MPG does that thing get? The footboards look like they'd cause a serious flesh-wound if played without shoes.
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Old 09-15-2009, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
Very cool and innovative. I would love to give these a try. I think it's great to see such experimentation and boundary pushing. Let's face it, Western plywood drums haven't changed much in 150 years and trap drums not much in 75+ years since Krupa got us started with lugs and hoops. The very first bass drum pedals are over 100 years old and were spring operated, like the ones today. The last big revolution was plastic heads in the 1950s! Looking at that record, it is easy to think drummers don't tend to embrace innovation. A breath of fresh air is welcome.

I think one downside of these might be, they wouldn't be as robust as spring pedals - you couldn't just toss them into the trap case. I have seen some pedals that use rare earth magnets instead of springs and those would be great also.
There was far more variation in pedal design a few decades ago, including a hydraulic pedal by Premier. There's a reason why it all simmered down to the basic design we have today.
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Quote....Let's face it, Western plywood drums haven't changed much in 150 years.

Gretsch invented ply drums in the 1920's so they are really only 80 some years old, but point well taken. I too would like to try the pedal.
I researched this more and you are indeed right. Plywood was invented in the 1850s but apparently wasn't used much for drums - perhaps because drummers then were a conservative lot who didn't want to try new things much!

Weren't the first Ludwig and Leedy snares and basses made of plywood? In the 1900s and 1910s?
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

I Googled first multi-ply drums.

1918 Fred Gretsch, Sr. develops revolutionary multi-ply drum lamination process resulting in the world's first "warp free" drum hoop.
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  #22  
Old 09-15-2009, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

I still want to weld a (clipless) bike pedal one up for grins

not only would you have to choose among drive linkage

but cleat format - time,shimano,speedplay

a geek's (that'd be me) dream of overcomplication and incompatibility!!!
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  #23  
Old 09-15-2009, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Airlogic just got an invite from me to jump-in here and tell us more about the pedal. Let's hope they show-up and represent.

You'll notice on their site they make mention of only the 'return' force being activated/powered by the compressed air.

-Your Airlogic bass drum pedal does not make use of springs, either expansion, or compression to provide the return force.

-Airlogic is the only pedal that utilizes compressed air to provide the return action.

-The air cylinder on the Airlogic pedal makes use of compressed air which roduces a pneumatic force to return the beater.

Interesting would be how much resistance is at the start of the stroke. Zero, a little? We're assuming beginning stroke is related to how much pressure is in the tank, even though the foot pedal is not used to charge/pump-up the tank.

-This graph illustrates the fact that less force is required at the beginning of the stroke and ramps-up exponentially as the beater approaches the bass drum.

Airlogic makes mention (a few times) of the pump possibly failing to pressurize fully.

-Periodically, or when the relief valve is not sealing completely, add 1 to 2 drops of "3 in 1" type oil to the pressure relief ball. Allow the oil to work into the valve to improve seating capability.

With one of these pedals you'd worried about blowing a seal. Not really a new twist though. Drummers can blow a seal on their air-lift thrones, but they can still make it through a gig. Another seal to worry about?
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  #24  
Old 09-15-2009, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjim View Post
I still want to weld a (clipless) bike pedal one up for grins

not only would you have to choose among drive linkage

but cleat format - time,shimano,speedplay

a geek's (that'd be me) dream of overcomplication and incompatibility!!!
I have thought about that a few times. My sister has a bike with cleats and I wondered about doing that with double drum pedals
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Interesting would be how much resistance is at the start of the stroke. Zero, a little? We're assuming beginning stroke is related to how much pressure is in the tank, even though the foot pedal is not used to charge/pump-up the tank.
I'd ASSUME (and that's worth less-than-nothing) it'd be a function of how much pressure you put into it -- like tuning a bike shock


I think it's an interesting idea

when (if) they stop by I'd be interested to hear if it has dampened rebound behavior


Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Shocks instead of springs. Interesting. And for 230.00 seems reasonable.
just from the description, it sounds more like an airspring than a shock


a spring stores energy
a shock controls the rate of energy transfer

so like in a vehicle suspension the spring absorbs the energy from a bump, but the shock controls how fast that energy goes in (compression damping) and out (rebound damping) of the spring so you don't get uncontrolled oscillations after the bump goes by
(I remember a couple of pointed object lessons I had in this concept in a 73 Mercury Capri with bad struts and an early rockshox fork - FWIW I pulled it out both times, but I think it was far more luck than skill ;) )

Last edited by justjim; 09-15-2009 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

It looks like a cool idea but at the same time it seems like their trying to reinvent the wheel or drum pedal in this case.

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  #27  
Old 09-15-2009, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjim View Post
I'd ASSUME (and that's worth less-than-nothing) it'd be a function of how much pressure you put into it -- like tuning a bike shock


I think it's an interesting idea

when (if) they stop by I'd be interested to hear if it has dampened rebound behavior
Which begs the question of 'Why not have two tanks, one for beginning stroke, one for return?'
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Which begs the question of 'Why not have two tanks, one for beginning stroke, one for return?'
dunno -- there might be enough internal material damping, esp with the progressive rate (as you come to the end of the rebound most of the energy has been spilled - geometric rate and all - so there might not be that much left to scrub off)

but I thinkjust putting another air spring counter to it wouldn't necessarilly really dampen it (having the extra material would probably cause some resistance, and you could put different spring rates on em I suppose which would maybe spread out the resonance, but to really dampen it like a shock, you'd need a noncompressible medium like oil and control orifice, or something with high internal damping like an elastomer)

eh, it'll be interesting to hear from the manfctr how it all plays out in the practical

Last edited by justjim; 09-15-2009 at 09:36 PM.
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  #29  
Old 09-15-2009, 09:31 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
I have thought about that a few times. My sister has a bike with cleats and I wondered about doing that with double drum pedals
might be worth a shot -- for grins (dragsters often have a little toe clip on the throttle pedal -- that may be a little more practical, but not nearly as much fun)

I don't play doubles, so I can't comment on that

the soles of bike shoes TEND (you can find soft ones) to be really really stiff and you aren't going to be able to heel and toe

but I suppose you could mount a trigger on the rebound throw of the pedal :D

eh, I'll sock it away for an "if i get really bored this winter" project

(I live in Seattle, so come about Nov, it gets really dark and stupid projects help keep you sane)
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
I just can't imagine very many people buying these. Like the PDP B.O.A. pedal and the Gibraltar Catapult. Sometimes "too weird" is just "too weird".....
I agree.

I've seen many odd pedals come out over the years, and for the most part, they never sell, and are never heard from again after a few years.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:05 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
I agree.

I've seen many odd pedals come out over the years, and for the most part, they never sell, and are never heard from again after a few years.

Depends on how much its promoted. Case in point, the BOA.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

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Depends on how much its promoted. Case in point, the BOA.
That has a lot to do with it.

There are probably pedal designs that are "better" in some ways then the conventional spring design, i.e. smoother, faster, more controllable, etc. But they doubtless have some tradeoffs (expense, durability, repairability, reliability, etc.). The conventional spring pedal is like the cockroach or shark - perfectly evolved and difficult to improve.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
The conventional spring pedal is like the cockroach or shark - perfectly evolved and difficult to improve.
Very True!!!

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  #34  
Old 09-16-2009, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

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The conventional spring pedal is like the cockroach or shark - perfectly evolved and difficult to improve.
Now there's a great comparison. Bravo, sir.
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  #35  
Old 10-25-2011, 08:16 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjim View Post
I still want to weld a (clipless) bike pedal one up for grins

not only would you have to choose among drive linkage

but cleat format - time,shimano,speedplay

a geek's (that'd be me) dream of overcomplication and incompatibility!!!
If you do the Clips... I feel the direct linkage will keep the pedal from springing around like a pedal with a chain might... The footplate may stay attached to the foot, but the mechanical parts still move and slack the chain...

That's my input anyway...

DR. Pedal
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  #36  
Old 10-25-2011, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
You know, honestly I think Im gonna wait on this one till they come out with a digital pressure gauge and adjustable LED brightness.

http://www.airlogic.com/
I do have a question about the air pressure and if it exhausts any air when it's played?? If it is just an air piston, there must be a cam in there somewhere... I agree the footplates look weak, though I would like to feel one...

DR Pedal.
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  #37  
Old 10-26-2011, 01:57 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

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I do have a question about the air pressure and if it exhausts any air when it's played?? If it is just an air piston, there must be a cam in there somewhere... I agree the footplates look weak, though I would like to feel one...

DR Pedal.
It (the air) has gotta be contained, otherwise you need a compressor to constantly refill it.
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  #38  
Old 10-26-2011, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

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It (the air) has gotta be contained, otherwise you need a compressor to constantly refill it.
Yes... Quite a ignorant question from me... Thank you... and can I say DAHHH... But I'm learning a lot!!
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  #39  
Old 10-26-2011, 04:12 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

these guys are literally 15 miles from me....maybe I can get them to offer a demo so I can give the forum a write up.


F
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  #40  
Old 10-26-2011, 04:28 AM
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Default Re: The pressure is on ☛

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these guys are literally 15 miles from me....maybe I can get them to offer a demo so I can give the forum a write up.


F
If not please play one and get back to us with how it feels...

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