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  #1  
Old 08-18-2009, 04:18 PM
aboylikedave aboylikedave is offline
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Default Coated heads for kick drum?

Hi - I'm going to go with Remo Ambassador for my kick. Anything thicker or premuffled just kills my Stage Custom 20 kick.

Why is it that you rarely see a coated head on a kick?

What are your opinions on coated or clear for kick drums? I'd be interested in your opinions for both batter and reso.

Cheers
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  #2  
Old 08-18-2009, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

I love coated heads on my bass drum. A lot less ticky attack, more depth, a tad more punch, more warmth. This goes for Coated PS3's, Coated EMAD's, etc...

My ideal setup is a Coated Powerstroke 3 with a Fiberskyn Powerstroke 3 w/port on the front. YUM!

Right now I'm using a Coated EMAD with a Coated EQ3 Resonant with awesome results on my Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute Nouveau.
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

I should add it will largely be for funk, occasional jazz, occasional retro 70's punk/new wave (Blondie, Clash) I should also repeat that my kick is by nature very lifeless!
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

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Originally Posted by aboylikedave View Post
I should add it will largely be for funk, occasional jazz, occasional retro 70's punk/new wave (Blondie, Clash) I should also repeat that my kick is by nature very lifeless!
What kind of wood is it made from? Also are you putting that Ambassador on the batter side? What do you have on at the moment? Are you going for a boomy or clicky sound?

Personally I like a clear head on the batter (20" PS3 no falam patch) so you can see inside the bass drum. I've got a small pillow inside it and it's a whole lot easier to tell if the pillow has shifted or not. Then a coated Ambassador or Emperor on the reso, I'm considering going unported.
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

My bass drum is fitted with coated head on both side. Aquarian Coated Full Force batter and REMO Fiberskyn (FA) as reso.

Couldn't be happier with the sound. Maybe coated heads on bass drum isn't much popular because more people use clear heads for toms so why would they go coated on bass drum.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

[quote=RollingStone000;604474]What kind of wood is it made from? Also are you putting that Ambassador on the batter side? What do you have on at the moment? Are you going for a boomy or clicky sound?

It basswood I believe. I was thinking about an ambassador on the batter and reso. And I want a sound which isn't boomy in a rock way but full and bassy in a funk way, sort of a focussed thuddy boom. I'm definitely not after a clicky sound. At the moment it is a slappy sound with little real low end

It was not very inspiring with the stock heads, so I put on a PS3 batter but it got very slappy, so I even put on a SK1 reso to try and make it more thuddy but t just made i more slappy and lifeless, so now I'm thinking 'let it sing!'
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  #7  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

Not too familiar with basswood myself. However a lot of the the deep thud/boom can come from the right tuning as well. My friend just got a kit and slapped an Emad2 on the batter and an EQ1 reso and has it tight and it sounds way too high, almost between an click and boom sound with very short sustain and has way too much rebound for my taste. Try going for a low pitch tuning, and then tune your reso head the same, that may rumble any pictures off of your walls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga8Q12mKYxI

Personally I don't think you'd enjoy the ambassador as a batter and reso, you'll hear a lot of overtones unless you stuff it with something. Try an Emperor if you want something without any built in muffling. Or maybe a pinstripe for your batter. It's kind of difficult to say without hearing the drum. But definitely try retuning it first, before you drop some unnecessary cash.
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Old 08-19-2009, 04:52 AM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

[quote=aboylikedave;604504]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingStone000 View Post
What kind of wood is it made from? Also are you putting that Ambassador on the batter side? What do you have on at the moment? Are you going for a boomy or clicky sound?

It basswood I believe. I was thinking about an ambassador on the batter and reso. And I want a sound which isn't boomy in a rock way but full and bassy in a funk way, sort of a focussed thuddy boom. I'm definitely not after a clicky sound. At the moment it is a slappy sound with little real low end

It was not very inspiring with the stock heads, so I put on a PS3 batter but it got very slappy, so I even put on a SK1 reso to try and make it more thuddy but t just made i more slappy and lifeless, so now I'm thinking 'let it sing!'
What beaters do you use and how do you tune the heads?
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:12 AM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

[quote=Fiery;604637]
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Originally Posted by aboylikedave View Post
What beaters do you use and how do you tune the heads?
Felt beater, and I've tried everything tuning wise, from tight to loose, but never a deep boom or thud. It just sounds weak and slappy. TBH, changing the tuning didn't make a huge amount of difference (well obviously a bit but not extreme).
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

What about the dampening? Do you have anything in your kick drum, and if yes, what is it and how is it positioned?
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

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Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
What about the dampening? Do you have anything in your kick drum, and if yes, what is it and how is it positioned?
Tried towels, pillows, position touching or not touching. Damped gives more of a nice dull thud but is then too quiet.

What do you recommend?

I think ultimately it just doesn't sound like it is in any way resonating properly.
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2009, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

Are you sitting behind the kit when you're listening to it? Because that'll sound different as well. Maybe try placing a small pillow (and I'm talkin' small) inside of the bass drum just soak up the random overtones. I've got one in mine and it's just small enough to fit in there centered and not touch either head, or have it touch one of the heads very lightly. I know what you're going through, it is a finicky thing. I had a great cannon-esque boom coming from my kick, then I decided to screw around with it and pitched it higher, a few days later I decided I didn't like it, and tried dropping it back down. Hasn't sounded the same since. My condolences.
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

I had a coated head on my kick, a SuperKick 3. It couldn't really get all too much of a sound out of it. I went with a clear EMAD, and now it's a completely different story.

Here's what I learned: The coating is going to dry the head/drum. Now, with good tuning, you'll get warmth and less plasticy attack to make for that, if not completely overshadow it. Thing is, if the tuning is off, or you have excessive muffling (such as the SK3, I mean a power dot AND that SK muffling? What was I thinking?) your kick is going to be weak, muddled, and have pretty lame projection.

In my opinion, working with a coated head takes more precision, not because of overtones or ring, but because of the opposite. That being said, if you nail the tuning, you will have a SLEW of warmth, and an attack that manages to not be plasticy but heard all the same.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

Drew, how big of a bass drum is it (diameter and depth, for some reason people only mention the diameter)? I've been pondering going unported and empty in the drum, which brings up a good point you made about over muffling the heads with that sk3 and power dot. You can really kill the great tones you can get out of bass drum with too heavy a head.

Aboylikedave, do you have your toms mounted on the bass drum? Or is the bass drum angled/pitched back i.e. the front hoop is an inch or two of the ground while the back is sitting on the pedal?
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PureRockFury View Post
Right now I'm using a Coated EMAD with a Coated EQ3 Resonant with awesome results on my Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute Nouveau.
I'm using the a coated EMAD and smooth white EQ3, absolutely a killer combo!

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  #16  
Old 08-21-2009, 10:25 AM
aboylikedave aboylikedave is offline
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

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Originally Posted by RollingStone000 View Post

Aboylikedave, do you have your toms mounted on the bass drum? Or is the bass drum angled/pitched back i.e. the front hoop is an inch or two of the ground while the back is sitting on the pedal?
Yes, toms on the as drum and front hoop about a quarter of an inch off the ground.
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  #17  
Old 08-21-2009, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

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Originally Posted by RollingStone000 View Post
A...... My condolences.
Thank you!

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  #18  
Old 08-21-2009, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

Coated Ambassadors are my favourite bass drum head; on both sides and no holes. Actually, that goes for every drum (except snare of course, which is a coated Amb over Amb hazy). Coated Emps over coated Ambs is great too.
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

Well, I don't think a 20" kick is ever gonna be boomy with lots of low end. At least not with basswood. The problem with 20" kicks too, is that you can't tune them that high before they start getting too high pitched, so some pre-muffled heads that need to be tuned higher are not ever gonna sound good. And, if you put anything like a pillow in a 20" kick, it's gonna kill quite a bit of the volume. Unmuffled heads are actually higher pitched than the pre-muffled heads, so you will need a little muffling to counteract that. A simple felt strip at the bottom on either side should do the trick. Then again, you may just have a dud of a bass drum.
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Old 08-21-2009, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aboylikedave View Post
Yes, toms on the as drum and front hoop about a quarter of an inch off the ground.
That could be your problem right there. The weight of your tom/s could be restricting the natural vibrations and resonance of your bass drum. Try taking your tom/s off and then playing the bass drum, it'll sound a whole lot more open. The problem is then, where are you going to put your toms. I don't know man, have considered going the tom stand or isolation mounts route? It'll cost more, but your drums will sing when setup that way.

Regarding the reso side of the drum being up of the ground, that shouldn't do too much to the sound. Although you may notice that when the drum is leaned back the batter head may have a slightly higher pitch since it's sitting on the batter side hoop (Thank you Bob Gatzen).
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:38 AM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

The toms aren't limiting your resonance but your tuning might be. Make sure both heads are tuned up and none of that wrinkly nonsense. You can try tuning the front higher than the batter as well, tune it too high and you can choke the resonance at the expense of higher pitch (you could like that too). Just dampen the heads with felt strips behind them, the old-fashioned way and you'll have a pretty open drum. Stage Customs are birch and other miscellaneous woods in the inner plies and are quite capable of resonating. Don't expect Recording Custom quality though. The best way is to have the bass level as well so that no pressure is on either side from either the ground or the pedal, this also allows the beater to strike level as well giving a fuller sound. (Get a nice round felt beater too and none of those plastic flat sided things that give wimpy sounds) Keep in mind a 20" kick is not going to dominate anything, though. Coated Ambassadors or Renaissance Ambassadors will do nicely. My Gretsch Catalina kit is cheap mahogany so it doesn't resonate all that well either, but the 26" kick makes up for it, but I have to have it basically wide open. Perhaps the bearing edges on that Stage Custom are poorly made, but it is a Yamaha so I would think differently.
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  #22  
Old 08-22-2009, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingStone000 View Post
Are you sitting behind the kit when you're listening to it? Because that'll sound different as well.
Try having someone else play your kit while you stand out from the kit to get a better evaluation of how your kick sounds. This is the ideal way to fine tune your bass drum.

Of course it helps to be able too hear and feel it while playing. You can always put your bass close to or up against a wall to add bottom end. I myself put ply wood under my kit that not only helps me feel my bass drum but also makes my 14" floor tom sound gi-normous! The room itself has huge impact on how everything sounds.
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

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Originally Posted by drumhammerer View Post
Well, I don't think a 20" kick is ever gonna be boomy with lots of low end. At least not with basswood. The problem with 20" kicks too, is that you can't tune them that high before they start getting too high pitched, so some pre-muffled heads that need to be tuned higher are not ever gonna sound good. And, if you put anything like a pillow in a 20" kick, it's gonna kill quite a bit of the volume. Unmuffled heads are actually higher pitched than the pre-muffled heads, so you will need a little muffling to counteract that. A simple felt strip at the bottom on either side should do the trick. Then again, you may just have a dud of a bass drum.
The quality of the shell and edges are much more important than the specific type of timber that the shells are made of. I tend to prefer a rounder edge on kick drums, more akin to the edges of yesteryear then the extra-sharp double-45s everyone seems to use today; gives it a bit more body and low-end punch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Cardwell, C&C Drums, ghostnote.net View Post
great point.
and here an example.
Joey Waronaker wanted me to build him a kit out of Lauan wood.
The cheap mahogany the drums Pearl and Tama started making in the 1960's
Tama made under the name STAR.

I called Taka Hoshino of Tama and got him to build me following shells
8x12, 9x13, 14x14, 16x16, 16x18 tom shells
14x18, 14x22, 14x24 bass drum shells
all in 9 ply lauan with 9 ply reinforcement hoops.
I cut 45 inside cut. round over outside. and tons of hand sanding to finish. just to get contour just right. And then... you guessed it vaseline on the inside of shells and edges.
Those drums recorded Oceans 13 sound track.
I have received calls from Drum Doctors, Istanbul cymbals and several others in LA asking about getting a kit made from these shells.

I recently pulled the 24" kick and 18" floor tom and painted to match maple toms for BECK tour to open for THE POLICE in South America.
Go figure?
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

Now that I'm reading this thread, I'm thinking about reconsidering my future choice of bass drum heads for my new Sonor Force 3007 bass drum.... I just got this, it's a 20"x17.5" drum and I originally just put the heads on with nothing in there and kept them loose. Had a nice powerful kick to it, and I tightened them up a bit more and love the punch and subsequent boom I have....

These are with stock heads, with that really really minor bit of muffling around the edges that I imagine doesn't kill the resonance too much.

I was originally going to going with a coated Powerstroke 3 as a batter and a ported ebony Resonant PS3 as my replacement heads..... after reading some of the stuff in this thread I'm wondering if that might choke it a bit.

If it might, I could possibly just go with ambassadors on each side like I'm planning on doing with my toms. Any idea? I kinda want a little bit more low end from the drum.... I'm still thinking I'd like the Powerstrokes but I obviously can't tell for sure without playing them.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

hmmm maybe coated emp batter and smooth amb res?
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

Well I'm thinking if I was going to go with a 2-ply head I may as well stick with the Powerstroke combo....

So I think I'll most likely do that.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

[quote=aboylikedave;604504]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingStone000 View Post
What kind of wood is it made from? Also are you putting that Ambassador on the batter side? What do you have on at the moment? Are you going for a boomy or clicky sound?

It basswood I believe. I was thinking about an ambassador on the batter and reso. And I want a sound which isn't boomy in a rock way but full and bassy in a funk way, sort of a focussed thuddy boom. I'm definitely not after a clicky sound. At the moment it is a slappy sound with little real low end

It was not very inspiring with the stock heads, so I put on a PS3 batter but it got very slappy, so I even put on a SK1 reso to try and make it more thuddy but t just made i more slappy and lifeless, so now I'm thinking 'let it sing!'
I had a basswood 20" SONOR bass drum and I eventually put an Emad along with a Powerstroke 3, I put maple hoops on and used the Evans eq pad inside, it worked extremely well. Basswood is similar to mahogany, it has more of a top end tone. I did try other heads and that combination worked best.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

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Originally Posted by Bruce M. Thomson View Post
Basswood is similar to mahogany, it has more of a top end tone.
I thought mahogany had more low end? I could be wrong. From the hypothetical "low end tone" scale. Low to High, wouldn't it be as follows: mahogany, maple, then basswood?
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

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Originally Posted by Ozzy Biz View Post
Coated Ambassadors are my favourite bass drum head; on both sides and no holes. Actually, that goes for every drum (except snare of course, which is a coated Amb over Amb hazy). Coated Emps over coated Ambs is great too.
Love the signature Oz. ;) "One day baby...ya ain't worry my life no more..." I'm learning that solo right now...groovy gravy.

Anyhow, back on topic. It's funny how this combo seems so radical now when just a few decades ago it was as common as cold milk.

I'm playing a Pearl Reference kit I picked up on a killer deal a few weeks ago. The kick (22x18") is mostly African Mahogany (which has more low-end and punch than maple or birch, BTW). It came with coated PS3s on both sides. I cut a 3.5" hole in the front and they sound fantastic...though a little dry for my tastes. Do you think the Ambassador, with the lack of the overtone-rings the PS3 has would improve that? I want what most of us want...deep, fat, punchy, LOUD, and a healthy balance of "boom".

I thought about coated ambs on both sides w/ a very small hole (or maybe no hole if I was happy w/ the recording sound at first). And, maybe either a strip of felt on the batter side or an Evans EQ muffling pad against the batter head.

Last edited by zambizzi; 09-01-2009 at 05:16 AM.
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  #30  
Old 09-01-2009, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingStone000 View Post
Drew, how big of a bass drum is it (diameter and depth, for some reason people only mention the diameter)? I've been pondering going unported and empty in the drum, which brings up a good point you made about over muffling the heads with that sk3 and power dot. You can really kill the great tones you can get out of bass drum with too heavy a head.
I've got a 22x20 [DIAxDEP], which kicks like a cannon. My kick right now is empty with a clear EMAD (which ring I use depends on the situation), and an Evans EQ3 Coated Reso (it's an unported PS3 with vents, it's pretty good). With that combination, I've been able to keep my kick completely empty, and I love it. Empty without interior muffling is just how a drum is made to sound, if you ask me, and the tone simply cannot be beaten by any muffled combinations I've tried.
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  #31  
Old 09-03-2009, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

These felt strips - are they special drumming ones? Sorry to be thick....
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  #32  
Old 09-03-2009, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Coated heads for kick drum?

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Originally Posted by aboylikedave View Post
These felt strips - are they special drumming ones? Sorry to be thick....
Not really, although some drum companies do sell bags of felt strips. Gibraltar comes to mind. You can always swing by a fabric store as well, it'll probably be cheaper.
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