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  #1  
Old 07-20-2009, 08:24 AM
stabmasterarson stabmasterarson is offline
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Default Recommend me a loud snare batter

I play metal, and I have a show coming up on saturday. I have a tama rockstar kit with the stock 14x6 snare, it's birch I believe. I am using an evans ec reverse dot 2 ply batter, it's all I've ever used and I'm happy with it I guess. I am wondering to myself though if a single ply head will be louder with more crack and rebound than a 2 ply head. My snare is pretty damn loud as it is but when I play fast rolls or blast above 190 with my left hand, I lose volume. I'm looking for a skin that will make weak hits sound loud......doubt that exists, but I'm throwing it out there.

I have an evans 3mil clear reso that's a couple months old on the snare. All my skins are evans, but I am not against experimenting, hence the thread!
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  #2  
Old 07-20-2009, 09:08 AM
wy yung wy yung is offline
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

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Originally Posted by stabmasterarson View Post
I play metal, and I have a show coming up on saturday. I have a tama rockstar kit with the stock 14x6 snare, it's birch I believe. I am using an evans ec reverse dot 2 ply batter, it's all I've ever used and I'm happy with it I guess. I am wondering to myself though if a single ply head will be louder with more crack and rebound than a 2 ply head. My snare is pretty damn loud as it is but when I play fast rolls or blast above 190 with my left hand, I lose volume. I'm looking for a skin that will make weak hits sound loud......doubt that exists, but I'm throwing it out there.

I have an evans 3mil clear reso that's a couple months old on the snare. All my skins are evans, but I am not against experimenting, hence the thread!
You could try an Emperor. On a snare with the head tight the feel shouldn't change too much between single and double ply heads. Remo's are brighter, at least to my ear, so it could help you.

"when I play fast rolls or blast above 190 with my left hand, I lose volume."

This sounds like a technique issue rather than a head issue.
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  #3  
Old 07-20-2009, 09:35 AM
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Naigewron Naigewron is offline
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

The loudest (and most durable) snare head I've tried is the Remo Emperor-X
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  #4  
Old 07-20-2009, 10:12 AM
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

The loudest I ever played was an Evans ST. VERY loud, very sensitive, lots of ring (which might take some getting used to), and likes medium to high tuning. I had it on a steel snare with 40-strand snare and it cut though everything.
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  #5  
Old 07-20-2009, 03:58 PM
stabmasterarson stabmasterarson is offline
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

I know my technique isn't perfect, but I'm looking for a quick fix. Over time, my faster playing with my left hand has improved and gotten louder and more precise, but its still my weak hand.
Thanks for the tips, I'll look into them!
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  #6  
Old 07-20-2009, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

Evans powercenter reverse dot, can't go wrong with that one.

The worst choice you could make would be the Aquarian High Energy, it kills a lot of the tone and its really not a good choice for most metal drummers even though its marketed towards them. It will last a long time but the tone is not worth it.
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  #7  
Old 07-21-2009, 09:59 AM
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Mikey Dangerous Mikey Dangerous is offline
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

I agree that the Emperor X is very durable...it has to be - it's thick as hell!! LOL

I don't find it any louder necessarily than other heads (except that you can hit it harder cuz it's thick as hell) and I doubt very much that it would give you the sensitivity you require to play blast at 190 bpm and make it sound clean...again, cuz it's thick as hell!! I use one (coated) on my 14 x 6.5 Birdseye Maple Tama Artstar II snare so I speak from experience. It's not bad, but it's run it natural course and it needs to be replaced. I will be switching to a coated Emperor within the next few weeks. I wouldn't use an Emp. X again for any of my snares.

Keep in mind that any head that will make "weak hits sound louder" will also make "loud" hits sound louder so the difference will still be there. As you know, this is a technique issue, but I think you are speaking more about sensitivity when you say you're looking for a head that makes "weak hits sound loud" because a sensitive, more responsive head will help these weaker notes stand out more in the meantime, until you can play them evenly on your own. Is that right?

From your description of what and how you play, I think you should try something single-ply like an Ambassador or Powerstroke 3 (coated of course). Both are 1-ply, 10 mil heads. They WILL give you more volume/crack, and more importantly, all the sensitivity you need to boot. Also, experiment with moongels or O-rings (more so for the Ambassador, the P3 has a built-in dampening ring) cuz they can dramatically change the snare's sound (sometimes for the better, but not always). If you are concerned about single-ply's not being meaty enough in sound or durable enough, then try a coated Emperor (and again experiment with the gels and rings). The Emp is 2-ply, 7 mil each ply. I'm guessing you want more of a focused sound with less overtones since you play metal so you will probably like what an O-ring will do to your snare's sound. Incidentally, I prefer Yamaha O-rings because they are narrower and thinner than others giving them the ability to get rid of the unwanted overtones without killing the actual sound of the drum.. They're the best in my opinion. Also, using good snare wires is very important and will not only help you for this issue, but improve the overall sound of your snare. Look into upgrading your wires if you don't already have good ones. BTW, PureSound makes great wires.

I'm a Remo guy so I can't speak from experience on Evans heads, but lots of drummers use the Genera/Genera Dry/Genera HD/Genera HD Dry heads and they seem to really like them a lot so I'm sure there's some great options there as well.

I'm not a metal drummer nor am I a hard-hitter by nature, but my band's music is mostly heavy alternative so I do hit hard often enough. In nearly 3 years I have yet to put even so much as a dent or dimple in any of my heads. My technique is decent in terms of how I strike a drum, but it's certainly not anything to marvel at. A friend of mine was in a metal band for years and he used coated Ambs on his snare without any issues so you should be fine with a thinner head. Basically what I'm saying is don't worry about putting your stick through the head. If you somehow manage to pull that off, head selection is far from your biggest dilemma!

All the best,

Mike
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  #8  
Old 07-22-2009, 07:05 PM
stabmasterarson stabmasterarson is offline
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

Thanks for the tips guys

I went and picked up an evans ST coated batter, and I couldn't be happier. I guess what I was looking for was a more sensitive head, and that's what I got. Lots of crack, tons of rebound, and I don't have to lay into the head in order to get good volume when I'm going fast. It has 2 plies and out of the box felt really heavy and dead, but when I put it on and cranked it tight, it really sounds good. Way better than the EC reverse dot I was using. Rolls are loud and articulate, it makes me sound like a better drummer than I am LOL!
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  #9  
Old 07-23-2009, 06:38 AM
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

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Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
The loudest (and most durable) snare head I've tried is the Remo Emperor-X
Agreed. A regular coated emperor is just as loud but in my experience the coating comes off way to fast for my liking.
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  #10  
Old 07-30-2009, 06:07 AM
ibrokemydrums ibrokemydrums is offline
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

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Originally Posted by razorx View Post
Agreed. A regular coated emperor is just as loud but in my experience the coating comes off way to fast for my liking.
right now i have a powerstroke 3 on my snare, and i like it, but its really worn out, and do you think i should get an ambassador or emperor? or just any other head you would suggest me, i play metal. just like this guy, and i want a sensitive but also loud snare with a crack.
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  #11  
Old 07-30-2009, 06:23 AM
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

the loudest i could get my snare to go (since its just some steel one i picked up at a pawn shop) was with an Evans genera HD dry (with an Evans hazy 300 for the resonant).
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  #12  
Old 07-30-2009, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

Is there such a thing as a loud drum head? I mean, how would you make a "loud" drum head?
I can see a multi-ply thick-ass head that could stand up to having the hell beat out of it, but would it be louder than, say, an Ambassador?
It seems to me that it's a bit like asking what's the loudest guitar string, not that I know anything about guitars.
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  #13  
Old 07-30-2009, 09:04 AM
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

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Originally Posted by con struct View Post
Is there such a thing as a loud drum head? I mean, how would you make a "loud" drum head?
I can see a multi-ply thick-ass head that could stand up to having the hell beat out of it, but would it be louder than, say, an Ambassador?
It seems to me that it's a bit like asking what's the loudest guitar string, not that I know anything about guitars.
A thick head will generally be louder than a thinner head, just like a thick drum shell will be louder than a thin one. The loudest hits won't be all that much louder between thicknesses, but (at least from what I've found) a thick head will make soft hits sound louder.

The very loudest drum head I've ever had on a drum of mine was an Aquarian Power-House, which is amazingly thick and made of kevlar. Even ghost notes were deafening, and trying to keep it under control was practically impossible. Definitely a head made for a single dynamic level: Hard and loud.
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  #14  
Old 07-30-2009, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

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Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
A thick head will generally be louder than a thinner head, just like a thick drum shell will be louder than a thin one..
But wouldn't a thick head, because it has greater mass, be "harder" to move than a thin head when struck? It seems that a thicker head would be less responsive and therefore require more force to get volume from it, no?
And don't the vibrations of the head contribute to the volume of the drum as would be measured in decibels? I would think that a thinner head would naturally vibrate more rapidly, thereby making the drum "louder."
No, I don't know what I'm talking about at all.
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  #15  
Old 07-30-2009, 10:36 AM
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

Quote:
Originally Posted by con struct View Post
But wouldn't a thick head, because it has greater mass, be "harder" to move than a thin head when struck? It seems that a thicker head would be less responsive and therefore require more force to get volume from it, no?
And don't the vibrations of the head contribute to the volume of the drum as would be measured in decibels? I would think that a thinner head would naturally vibrate more rapidly, thereby making the drum "louder."
No, I don't know what I'm talking about at all.
More rapid vibrations do not mean more volume, they mean higher pitch. Volume is caused by soundwave amplitude (the "height" of the waves, so to speak), while pitch is caused by soundwave frequancy (or the "length" of the waves)

As for the actual physics behind why the thicker heads seem to be louder, I'm not sure what actually causes it. All I know is that when I went from an Evans G2 to a Remo Emperor-X, even my bass player commented on how loud the snare sounded all of a sudden ;-)
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  #16  
Old 07-30-2009, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

Its simple physics. A 1 ply head will always have more volume than a 2 ply head. The differences aren't as big as one might think, but they are there.

A super thick Emperor X or Evans ST isn't going to have the full tone, volume and projection a Coated Ambassador or G1 is going to have. It takes the full spectrum of frequencies to help projection. The volume depends on the shell material, thickness and most importantly the player.

In a rock or metal band context WITHOUT microphones, which snare will have a nice full bodied pop, which one would have a little bip?

A 14x5.5 with a Coated Ambassador batter side and an Ambassador Snare Side, 20 strand snares loose enough for great snare buzz at all dynamics?

OR

A 14x5.5 with an Emperor X/Super Tough with an Ambassador Snare Side, 20 strand wires?

Option #1 without a doubt will have more body in the mix than Option B.
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  #17  
Old 07-30-2009, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

This might be a case of frequency isolation. Some heads tend to dampen certain frequencies and enhance others.

Imagine being in a crowded room and hearing a high pitched voice over others. It's not so much a volume thing but a void that allows that frequency to cut through making it appear to be louder.
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  #18  
Old 08-07-2009, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Recommend me a loud snare batter

Again, it all depends on the drum. On a supra 400, I think the single ply heads are louder. On a deeper maple drum, an emperor X gives me more volume. It can also depend on tuning, too. If the drum has a short sound, it may seem to have less volume than a drum tuned midrange with a longer note. Single ply heads are also more sensitive than 2 ply heads, so it takes less power to get volume. Either way, I don't think there's a huge difference in volume with any head, only differences in attack, frequencies, and sensitivity.

As far as blast beats go, when you start getting into the super fast range, there's gonna be a natural drop in volume, regardless of what head you use, especially when you get up into the 210/ 220bpm range. To play that fast, you have to have a real short stroke, and use mostly fingers, so the power is not gonna be there. That's why all these extreme metal guys trigger everything- it makes everything more consistent in volume.
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