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  #1  
Old 06-24-2009, 07:32 PM
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Default Gas Lift Throne repair?

My beloved Gibraltar Gas Lift Throne seems to be failing on me. As i'm playing through a song, the seat starts to sink to its lowest level leaving the snare drum nearly chest high!

Is there an easy fix for this or am I stuck using my backup throne from now on?
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  #2  
Old 06-24-2009, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Gas Lift Throne repair?

I would contact Roc-N-Soc. You must play on it a lot to have it wear out. Mine has held up for 15 years just fine.

I believe these have a charged nitrogen case inside and likely one of your seals is leaking out nitrogen gas. Roc-N-Soc can help you figure out exactly what is wrong. I suspect it is a bad seal; if they are good, they will send you some more, free of charge, or tell you what size if these are commonly available seals and gaskets.

You may need to take it to an auto shop or send it back to Roc-N-Soc to get it restored to original working condition, to get the nitrogen cell recharged. Likely these sets function like auto suspension systems. There is probably a coiled spring inside that provides bounce and a gas shock absorber that keeps the spring from boinging around all the time. There must also be some kind of clutch that provides adjustability.

Les Ismore knows a lot about this kind of thing so I'd want to hear from him.
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:41 AM
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Default Re: Gas Lift Throne repair?

Easy fix, lower the snare drum.
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  #4  
Old 06-25-2009, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: Gas Lift Throne repair?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Easy fix, lower the snare drum.
That's great.

Mike I feel your pain brother. That happened to me once, at a gig. ND. (Nitro Dysfunction)Never again. I decided to go with a spindle seat on gigs and (a new) nitro at home. Gotta love the bounce of the nitros. But really, my beat's so heavy, it's a wonder any seat survives. Hey it was there I had to take it.
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: Gas Lift Throne repair?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikebike88 View Post
My beloved Gibraltar Gas Lift Throne seems to be failing on me. As i'm playing through a song, the seat starts to sink to its lowest level leaving the snare drum nearly chest high!

Is there an easy fix for this or am I stuck using my backup throne from now on?
Face it, you've 'passed gas'.

I went through it too when hydraulic thrones made their debut. Nothings changed. I can honestly say "You're screwed", there's no fix.

Its one reason threaded post thrones are popular, you still get screwed, but at least the end result is happiness.

if you have on of these time bombs, what can you do to maximize the bushings life? Fist off, NEVER, EVER us a lubricant on the post. Do not taunt the bushing with any kind of solvent, lube, polish etc. Try not to even look at it in a questionable way.

Nobody knows what eats the bushing material, so don't take chances. This may be an internal problem, or it could be from user influenced outside forces, not enough studies have been done.

Just wipe the post with a dry rag and always talk nicely to it. Don't chance lubing the (adjustment) handle, or anything on the stand for that matter. Any overspray could damage bushing, gravity pulls the stuff down onto bushings face, not good.

If you must lube, do so with a drip dispenser and carefully keep away from hydraulic post.

Last edited by Les Ismore; 06-25-2009 at 03:08 AM.
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Old 06-25-2009, 05:26 AM
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Default Re: Gas Lift Throne repair?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Face it, you've 'passed gas'.

I went through it too when hydraulic thrones made their debut. Nothings changed. I can honestly say "You're screwed", there's no fix.

Its one reason threaded post thrones are popular, you still get screwed, but at least the end result is happiness.

if you have on of these time bombs, what can you do to maximize the bushings life? Fist off, NEVER, EVER us a lubricant on the post. Do not taunt the bushing with any kind of solvent, lube, polish etc. Try not to even look at it in a questionable way.

Nobody knows what eats the bushing material, so don't take chances. This may be an internal problem, or it could be from user influenced outside forces, not enough studies have been done.

Just wipe the post with a dry rag and always talk nicely to it. Don't chance lubing the (adjustment) handle, or anything on the stand for that matter. Any overspray could damage bushing, gravity pulls the stuff down onto bushings face, not good.

If you must lube, do so with a drip dispenser and carefully keep away from hydraulic post.
Now I am officially freaked out. I lube the hydraulic post shaft a couple of times a year with light machine oil. I am not light by any means and I have been flopping my ass down on the same Nitro for 15 years and it works as good as the day I got it.

Maybe I'm just lucky. Maybe it will fail at the gig tomorrow. But I have never heard of a Nitro failing until now, which has surprised me given their widespread use.

I am going to ask the Roc-N-Soc people if they recommend oiling the post. I know oils do weaken some plastic, but sticky parts will also stress rings and bushings. I also know auto shock absorbers are filled with oil and take tremendous stress for years. Who knows?
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Gas Lift Throne repair?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
Now I am officially freaked out. I lube the hydraulic post shaft a couple of times a year with light machine oil. I am not light by any means and I have been flopping my ass down on the same Nitro for 15 years and it works as good as the day I got it.

Maybe I'm just lucky. Maybe it will fail at the gig tomorrow. But I have never heard of a Nitro failing until now, which has surprised me given their widespread use.

I am going to ask the Roc-N-Soc people if they recommend oiling the post. I know oils do weaken some plastic, but sticky parts will also stress rings and bushings. I also know auto shock absorbers are filled with oil and take tremendous stress for years. Who knows?
The bouncy, bounce action can't be good. Pressure builds inside the cylinder, that could and probably does stress the bushing. We do know the bushings fail though, so thoughts on minimizing the possibility-of is sending that energy in the right direction towards the target.

There's no doubt some chemi, or some mixture thereof will destroy the bushing, if the makers know what to avoid that'd be great, I doubt it though. Best to be on the safe side.
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: Gas Lift Throne repair?

Thanks for the replies. I guess it's more trouble than it's worth! I will just switch seats then, and stick with the screwy chair :D
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2009, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Gas Lift Throne repair?

I asked Roc-N-Soc about this and it appears Les Ismore is correct, you don't want oil going down inside there. However, it is important to keep the shaft clean and it is okay to use a bit of light oil for that.

Martin,
This is a very good question.Here is what the boss said:

Yes, it is good to do this to clean the shaft. Put light oil (WD-40) on a rag and wipe down the shaft, basically polishing it.. Take up and down a few times, wiping shaft after each time. Too much oil will cause more stickiness and dirt as well as causing problems with the bushings and rings.
--
Thanks,
Gwyn McIntosh
Roc-N-Soc, Inc.
828-452-1736

Dear Roc-N-Soc,

I have had one of your Nitro thrones since 1995 and it works as good as the day I got it.

I oil the shaft occasionally to promote smooth action but someone said on a drum forum that you shouldn't oil the shaft as the oil will weaken the bushings and rubber/plastic rings. On the other hand, sticky machinery also stresses rings and bushings.

So, I would like to know, is it okay to oil the Nitro shaft periodically?

Thanks,
Martin in Boise
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: Gas Lift Throne repair?

I'm afraid no matter how well you treat any hydraulic throne, its eventually gonna fail at the bushing.

So Rock-n-Soc admits too much lube is no good, but how thin is that line really? If there's any amount of lube on the post and you descend, that lube (and the dirt its attracted) will get concentrated at the bushing top, gravity takes over and its all speculation from there. Will your mixture destroy?
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  #11  
Old 06-28-2009, 01:57 AM
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Default Re: Gas Lift Throne repair?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
I'm afraid no matter how well you treat any hydraulic throne, its eventually gonna fail at the bushing.

So Rock-n-Soc admits too much lube is no good, but how thin is that line really? If there's any amount of lube on the post and you descend, that lube (and the dirt its attracted) will get concentrated at the bushing top, gravity takes over and its all speculation from there. Will your mixture destroy?
The way I read the email, the lube is not really for lubrication, but to preserve the metal and carry away particles when you rub it clean with a cloth. The idea is to keep the shaft operating smoothly by polishing, not by lubricating, as oil will degrade the plastic. They do agree that oil will cause problems with the bushings and rings. Any oil, especially WD-40, evaporates before long, particularly if there is just a thin layer of it. So I would think using minimum lubrication and wiping it off and keeping dirt away from the mechanism and you should be fine.

I have encouraged machine oil to go down into the mechanism, squirting a dozen or so drops on the shaft and then moving up and down on the shaft to work it into the machinery. In hindsight, this was dumb, but the throne works as good as the day I got it. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens.

I wouldn't expect a Nitro throne to last forever. On the other hand, I've seen spindle seats chewed up and wobbly after a few years, too. I guess the difference is a spindle seat is much less expensive and really has no chance of sudden catastrophic failure in the middle of a gig, while a Nitro always does. But I find the Nitro incredibly comfortable and I just can't go back to a regular seat now; it is an injury issue now. If my Nitro failed today, I would say I've gotten my money's worth and I'd gladly spend another $220 for a throne to last a decade or more.
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2009, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Gas Lift Throne repair?

I'm guessing it's like a cars shock absorber, and yours may have seen one too many speed bumps.
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