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  #1  
Old 05-23-2009, 10:41 PM
rjnyam rjnyam is offline
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Default Help with mic decisions

Hey guys, I am currently in a band, and i am at the point were we need to start recording. I am putting mics together,but i wanted advice before i go out and spend a grand or two!
My original ideas were:
Shure SM57 on the snare drum and also for a guitar cab
Shure beta 91 or 52 on the kick drum and also for a bass cab
2 Rode NT5's for OH
Sennheiser E604 3pack for tom-toms


After getting some feedback i was told to get
Heil Sound PR 40 or a Electro-Voice N D868 for kick
2 ATM 450 for OH
CAD M179 for tom-toms
Audix i5 for snare

So please let me know what your experience or opinions are with both sets of these mics. And setup's you guys use or have used. Thanks
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  #2  
Old 05-24-2009, 01:34 AM
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caddywumpus caddywumpus is offline
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

I LOVE the sound of the I-5 on the snare! Much more "in your face" than the SM57.

I'm a HUGE fan of the Audix D-series mics on toms as well. D-1 on 10" toms or smaller, D-4 on 16" toms or bigger, and D-2 on everything in between.

For kick drum, I dig either the AKG D112 or the Audix D-6.

For OH, I like just about any matched condenser pair, with 1" diaphragms preferred.
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  #3  
Old 05-24-2009, 01:39 AM
Mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

Overheads are the 'important' mic as far as I'm concerned and both pairs will serve you well. The Audio Technicas are probably 'better' microphones, but the Rodes are also rather good for the money and will record well. I've purchased a pair of C1000's and I'm very happy with them in the time I've had them.
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Old 05-24-2009, 05:43 PM
Numberonefan Numberonefan is offline
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

For recording I would recommend the most transparent micís you can afford. I would also recommend using the studios mic over any you might have.

If you are doing it yourself you need to target your budget to your expected results and be realistic. You only need mics that are as good or a little better than everything else in the recording chain. If your using built in pre amps on a low end board like a Behringer or similar you can go cheep on the mics. If you have Neve outboard equipment you better get the best.

If you want to double duty your mics for live and recording this is where the real tradeoffs begin.
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Old 05-24-2009, 07:51 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

The I5 is my choice for the snare. One bad hit on a 57 and oops there goes the capsule!

The I5 wont break if you whack it with the stick, better designed and better sound IMO.

I have the Sennheiser E604's and they work great, but I never used anything else so I can't compare.

The Audix mics just kick butt, you can't go wrong there. I love my D-6 kick mic.

I have the Rode NT5's and they are great but again, they are the first OH's I bought so nothing to compare against.

You can have great mics and not know how to place them and they won't sound good.
Conversely you can have so so mics and great micing technique and get great sounds.

It's all dependent on the skill of the user. Just like a good drummer can make a crap set of drums sound great, so it goes with micing a kit.
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  #6  
Old 05-25-2009, 03:55 AM
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Chonson Chonson is offline
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

Not personally a fan of the Audix range but that's a matter of personal taste. The 57 is a solid all-around for snare work, but if the discussion is, what do you like for snare that's *not* a 57 my vote is the Beyerdynamic m201.

If you're looking at B52 OR B91 for kick, hands down - go with the 52. The 91 does not have a lot of low end to it, it's good at picking up the higher elements of the kick drum sound. (Huge peak around 8-9K if I remember correctly). 91 would be a go-to piece in creating a clicky metal sound, but I'd still want to use other mics to build up the sound.

Overheads: Spend your money here. Period. A good set of overheads will make your life easier and is the foundation for a great sound. Really, all you might need is a kick mic, a snare mic, a pair of overheads and a lighter touch on the cymbals and you've got everything you need. My current main pair are Shure KSM27s; I've also gotten good results with KSM141s (small diaphragm), Cascade Fatheads, etc.

Honestly, I'd be inclined to skip on the tom mics, bump up a notch on the OH and then save for something like a couple Sennheiser 421s which you can use on anything with incredible results. (I *love* what it can do in a kick)
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Old 05-25-2009, 11:17 AM
Mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

Quote:
Honestly, I'd be inclined to skip on the tom mics, bump up a notch on the OH and then save for something like a couple Sennheiser 421s which you can use on anything with incredible results.
Entirely agreed. The overheads are the most important mics, followed by the kick and then the snare. The overheads will form the basis of your sound, so if you've got any extra money I suggest putting it into those. I record most of what I do with just a pair of general-purpose condensers and I rarely feel the need to use anything else.

Quote:
You only need mics that are as good or a little better than everything else in the recording chain. If your using built in pre amps on a low end board like a Behringer or similar you can go cheep on the mics. If you have Neve outboard equipment you better get the best.
Not true. Whilst the limiting factor is often the preamps, they should always buy the best they can afford regardless of what else is in their chain. I will say that cheap preamps are often the downfall of what could otherwise have been a very good recording, and that these are the problem more often than people getting poor-quality microphones, but I will not agree when you say that the whole chain should be cheap. A better microphone may sound inferior through a cheaper preamp, and not significantly better than a cheaper microphone through that preamp, but the best economic decision is to buy the best you can afford. Even if it means having cheap microphones or preamps, one or the other at one stage and then upgrading later - but like with drums, if you spend time and buy them one at a time with patience, the results will pay off.

Quote:
Not personally a fan of the Audix range but that's a matter of personal taste.
This is interesting. Audix make really great mics, but some of them seem very heavily EQ'd (the D6 kick mic is a great example). For transparency, I would agree and say that if you buy an Audix drum mic set, the mics might be too specialised for use elsewhere - except maybe the overheads.
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  #8  
Old 05-25-2009, 06:26 PM
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Chonson Chonson is offline
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat View Post
This is interesting. Audix make really great mics, but some of them seem very heavily EQ'd (the D6 kick mic is a great example). For transparency, I would agree and say that if you buy an Audix drum mic set, the mics might be too specialised for use elsewhere - except maybe the overheads.
The bulk of my experience is with the D6 and i5 from Audix - D6 is pretty well documented as the scooped modern rock sound, even more so than the Beta 52 or the D112. If all you're going for is that bass drum sound with low end boom and a little top-end click, then it's only $200 and you're done. The second you want to try something else, I feel like that mic (as well as the B52/D112 to some degree) hits the limitations of its design.

I admit the i5 is a far more subjective call. To me the i5 sounds cold, distant and somewhat hollow... it definitely has a more ready-to-go sound, but it just lacks some power and presence in my opinion. Like I said though - I recognize this one is more subjective and the i5 should probably work fine in many applications that a 57 would.

And regarding durability - try not to hit the thing! ;)
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  #9  
Old 05-25-2009, 08:05 PM
Mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

Agreed, particularly with the D112. I don't have enough experience with the B52 to make a call, but the D112 hits its limits really, really quickly. I prefer the older D12 (an old school technician had one) that was much the same, but had a different kind of shockmount built into the capsule and to my ears, had slightly less of bass and more in the mid-range. It was a decent mic.
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  #10  
Old 05-25-2009, 08:55 PM
SickRick
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

Nice replys so far, but I think a few very essential points have not been made yet:

The far most important from my experience is the room that are recording in. What I understood from the threadstarter was that they want to start recording stuff for their band without wasting too much money. I guess by that you mean that you record in your rehearsal room.

From my personal experience, when recording drums the room is one of the (if not the) most important elements in the recording chain. You can have the best mics, the best preamps etc. - if you don't have a decent sounding room: forget it. Especially when recording drums.

The next thing is tuning which also hasn't been mentioned. You can save a lot of money and time by tuning your drums and using new heads. That's also a way more important factor than which kind of mic you use (and you don't have to pay anything for it).

Just two things to consider. Another one would be the Audiointerface, but since I don't know how many channels you want to use, if you want to use a mixing console, have USB, FireWire or PCI, I don't want to touch upon this.
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  #11  
Old 05-25-2009, 09:20 PM
DW_Drummer DW_Drummer is offline
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

Honestly I would say we've all tossed a little too much hard earned money out the door on mic's before finding a good working combination ..

I think microphones are like drums .. it depends on your style ,tone, pitch and over all type of sound you're wanting to achieve ... what works for one may not work for others .

Here's what I found works for my playing style and sound :

side mounted SM57 & top mounted Audix i5 on my DW 8 X 14 Solid Cocobolo snare
My Collector Series VLT maple kit get D2's on the 3 ride toms and a D4 on the 16" floor tom with a KELLY SHU Mounted D6 in my 24" kick drum .. I chose Sterling ST31's for my overheads set on boom stands 2 feet above and 6 feet apart .. then everything is shot through a Peavey QF 215 Graphic EQ with FLS before heading to the PA ..
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2009, 10:44 PM
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victoriousmusic victoriousmusic is offline
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

I recently got a set of Audio Technica XMD's (2 57 like mics and kick mic). I've only used them once live, but I think they sounded fine. Everyone in the band thought so too. I used a Behringer mic for the floor tom with good results as well. Our band leader has Behringer overheads that were fine as well. We use a small mixer to mix the drum mics on stage, it works fine. I've not recorded with them yet, so I'm not sure how they will do there. I don't expect any problems. I got these on Amazon, the set of 3 was 49.99 as I think they are on "closeout", normal price was $249. The beringer mic was $20 and has multiple excellent reviews for vocals, inst., drums, all.
I have a set of 2 CAD OH on the way, can't comment on them yet. I plan to use them for recording as well as back ups for the Behringer OHs.
We used to use the bands left over cheap mics for the drums and these are a marked improvement!
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2009, 11:05 PM
Meat the beat Meat the beat is offline
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

Basically it all depends on your budget.
Also if you intend to use them playing out. I have to disagree with our Friend who states that one hit of a '57 capsule & its gone... thats why we've been using them as the industry standard rock 'n roll touring mic for the last 30 years!!! But if you go for the '57 stump up the extra and get the Beta '57, it'll give you that extra bit of presence & be slightly nicer in the studio. No-one has mentioned a Beyer M88 for the Kick drum, really nice and plenty of punch.. check it out for yourself. Overheads go for AKG 414's and if you can get the old version, they sound better than the current model.

Again its very much down to personal taste & budget. Personally I don't rate the Audix stuff & usually end up EQing it to death, but thats me, I know others who love it... but I just like to plug the mics in & get on with playing when I'm on the band side of the mixer !!!!"
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  #14  
Old 06-03-2009, 04:42 AM
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masonni masonni is offline
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Default Re: Help with mic decisions

Here is what I have been recording with and Saturday I used it live:

Snare - SM57
Kick - Beta 52A
12" Tom - Audix D2
14" Tom - Audix D2
16" Tom - Audix D4

I am real happy with this set-up.
As for overheads, hi hats, and ride mics... I use what ever the studio and sound guys have.
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