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  #1  
Old 04-17-2009, 05:10 PM
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Default Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Here's the ones I know of:

Trick Pro 1-V
Trick Dominator
Axis Pedals
Yamaha direct drive pedal (forgot what it's called)


If I'm missing any, please add to the list. We always compare Direct Drive to Chain Drive, but we never seem to compare Direct Drive to itself.

Which pedal do you prefer?
Positives and Negatives between each brand?
What could one brand do differently that the other has already done...or not?
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  #2  
Old 04-17-2009, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

The Gibraltar catapult is a direct drive pedal.
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  #3  
Old 04-17-2009, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

There's quite a few threads comparing direct drive pedals. I just started one for the Trick Dominator.

You forgot the Pearl Demon Drive and Ludwig Speed King. I think the Yamaha is Flying Dragon.

How about the Demon Drive vs the Flying Dragon. Sounds like a Hong Kong action flick.

Last edited by Pavlos; 04-17-2009 at 07:06 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #4  
Old 04-17-2009, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

PDP BOA its fairly new some argue it should be a dw but i dont see where it would fit :P
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  #5  
Old 04-17-2009, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Can anyone really articulate the advantage or disadvantage of direct vs chain vs strap? To me, it seems that if you replace a direct drive shaft with a chain or a strap, the actual moving parts of the pedal are going to do the same thing, but many people swear by one system exclusively. I don't see it. Can some proponent of direct drive please explain?

Incidetally, i use the trick pro 1v bigfoot detonator which has a 3 way adjustible direct drive linkage, which is great, but i still feel that if the exact length of the drive was replaced by the same length of chain or strap, again, the moving parts would be doing the same thing.
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Old 04-18-2009, 11:39 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by diosdude View Post
Can anyone really articulate the advantage or disadvantage of direct vs chain vs strap? To me, it seems that if you replace a direct drive shaft with a chain or a strap, the actual moving parts of the pedal are going to do the same thing, but many people swear by one system exclusively. I don't see it. Can some proponent of direct drive please explain?

Incidetally, i use the trick pro 1v bigfoot detonator which has a 3 way adjustible direct drive linkage, which is great, but i still feel that if the exact length of the drive was replaced by the same length of chain or strap, again, the moving parts would be doing the same thing.
Bro, in the end I believe it's 99% hype. Once the chain or strap gets moving, it does the same crap that the metal linkage does. The only difference is that the footboard moves in unison with the direct linkage on every stroke, even the upstrokes.

I could take George Kollias and he would kick it on ANY decent pedal. I've seen Tim Waterson kick it on a crap pedal with a boot on!

I own them all BTW, Axis, Trick, Pearl Elim and Demon Drive. What I like about the new demon drive double pedal is the fact that it truly has the best slave pedal out there. The damn thing osciallates almost as much as the main one!

If I was using 2 kick drums, pedal choice would matter MUCH less.
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  #7  
Old 04-18-2009, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

The new Yamaha pedals are called ''Sleek'' models.



Im thinking of order a custom lefty direct drive version.

http://www.yamaha.com/drums/bassdrum...&CNTYP=PRODUCT

The doublechained are offered with longboards (like the hihat stands) but without the new softcases that comes with the new ''sleek'' series.

What would be the usefull difference between standard and longer boards?
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  #8  
Old 04-19-2009, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiQmaN View Post
The new Yamaha pedals are called ''Sleek'' models.



Im thinking of order a custom lefty direct drive version.

http://www.yamaha.com/drums/bassdrum...&CNTYP=PRODUCT

The doublechained are offered with longboards (like the hihat stands) but without the new softcases that comes with the new ''sleek'' series.

What would be the usefull difference between standard and longer boards?
I'd like to give those a try! Hope a shop around here get's a set!
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  #9  
Old 06-03-2009, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

those are sweet! i hope they come to GC soon
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  #10  
Old 06-03-2009, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by diosdude View Post
Can anyone really articulate the advantage or disadvantage of direct vs chain vs strap? To me, it seems that if you replace a direct drive shaft with a chain or a strap, the actual moving parts of the pedal are going to do the same thing, but many people swear by one system exclusively. I don't see it. Can some proponent of direct drive please explain?

Incidetally, i use the trick pro 1v bigfoot detonator which has a 3 way adjustible direct drive linkage, which is great, but i still feel that if the exact length of the drive was replaced by the same length of chain or strap, again, the moving parts would be doing the same thing.
Which all the manufactures selling direct-drives could capitalize on by including a chain drive accessory with their pedal's.

Chains are relatively cheap. At $600-$1,200 for a pedal set-up, a chain/strap option should be thrown in! Cover all the bases. It'd be real easy to design a convertible chain/direct drive feature on a pedal.

The main difference in feel between direct and chain/strap is the frequency shift when the chain/strap leaves the cam (down-stroke) and meets up with the cam again (up-stroke). You could call this 'lag' but the chain doesn't loose tension, it only looses a miniscule amount of speed on the up-stroke. Our bodies bioelectrical field can detect this shift, though its really inconsequential... depending on your sensitivity. Take the cam out of the equation an there's a more 'direct' feel.

Last edited by Les Ismore; 06-03-2009 at 09:55 PM.
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  #11  
Old 06-08-2009, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
Bro, in the end I believe it's 99% hype. Once the chain or strap gets moving, it does the same crap that the metal linkage does. The only difference is that the footboard moves in unison with the direct linkage on every stroke, even the upstrokes.

I could take George Kollias and he would kick it on ANY decent pedal. I've seen Tim Waterson kick it on a crap pedal with a boot on!

I own them all BTW, Axis, Trick, Pearl Elim and Demon Drive. What I like about the new demon drive double pedal is the fact that it truly has the best slave pedal out there. The damn thing osciallates almost as much as the main one!

If I was using 2 kick drums, pedal choice would matter MUCH less.
It isn't quite 99% hype. The fact that the beater, the drive system and the footboard are synchronized all the time, including the up motion, gives a trmendous advantage both in terms of feel and speed, especially when your springs are really tight. Those upstrokes when the footboard comes back slower than the beater and then goes down even later are pretty annoying at times.

Also, concerning George Kollias, I wouldn't be so confident about him playing just as well on regular pedals :)) Actually there is a video where he tries to play on a Pearl Eliminator and just can't do it right (true, the pedal was set for the owner's personal preferences, not George's, but anyway), so he brings his Axis pedals in order to demonstrate what he was until then only talking about. Those extreme speeds that George is playing obviously require a special pedal, and Axis isn't his (and many others') pedal of choice by mistake. Those pedals are much faster than regular pedals because of lighter footboards, because of longer footboards and because of the direct drive - they're truly 'precision pedals'.

I wonder if the direct drive wears out faster than the chain or strap, given that it is bound to absorb the entire shock of each stroke, which the chain or strap would dissipate to a certain degree.
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2009, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
Bro, in the end I believe it's 99% hype. Once the chain or strap gets moving, it does the same crap that the metal linkage does. The only difference is that the footboard moves in unison with the direct linkage on every stroke, even the upstrokes.

I could take George Kollias and he would kick it on ANY decent pedal. I've seen Tim Waterson kick it on a crap pedal with a boot on!

I own them all BTW, Axis, Trick, Pearl Elim and Demon Drive. What I like about the new demon drive double pedal is the fact that it truly has the best slave pedal out there. The damn thing osciallates almost as much as the main one!

If I was using 2 kick drums, pedal choice would matter MUCH less.
And the Trick slave pedal does nto have this feature? Which would you prefer or which slave pedal is more imitating and accurate to the main pedal between Trick and the demon drive?
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2009, 03:53 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

I know that Ludwig isn't exactly known for its high quality hardware. I have an opportunity to pick up a used SpeedKing for real cheap. Should I?

BTW: I already started this thread. But figured it would be better off here...
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2009, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

I have been using the Yamaha Flying Dragon for a few years and love it!!. Cant say anything about the other pedals but I love this one for it's responsivness anf feel.
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2009, 08:51 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

- DSCRAPRE - ... Have you tryed a speedking pedal? The 'speed' of the pedal is the return of the foot board not the down stroke, unless you loosen the 2 screws in the pedals frame, but then the result is a quick down stroke and a very slow return. The foot boards are extremly small. For some reason, at the top of the direct link was built sticking out just a bit to close to the bass drum batter head and if you like your bass drums spurs all the way out, the direct drive link always finds it way to scuffing up the batter head. Also for me to get the correct feel of the pedal you really have to crank down on the pedals attachment to the bass hoop because the pedal is built really flimsey.... but it is easy to take apart, aswell the speedking does have a good price (brand new) i payed $179.99 (canadian) plus tax for mine. But i dont even use mine any more. Anyway hope this helps you out.
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  #16  
Old 12-04-2009, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sssssssss View Post
It isn't quite 99% hype. The fact that the beater, the drive system and the footboard are synchronized all the time, including the up motion, gives a trmendous advantage both in terms of feel and speed, especially when your springs are really tight. Those upstrokes when the footboard comes back slower than the beater and then goes down even later are pretty annoying at times.
Impossible. The footboard can't come back slower than the beater unless you're using an elastic strap between them. Chain is no more elastic than a direct link. The only possible situation where the footboard and the beater can be desynchronized is if for some reason the footboard goes up faster than the beater. This can obviously happen only if it sticks to your foot for some reason, or if there is a spring underneath it that is stronger than the main pedal spring.

The difference in feel comes from the different action of the direct drive cam compared to the chain cam.

Quote:
Also, concerning George Kollias, I wouldn't be so confident about him playing just as well on regular pedals :)) Actually there is a video where he tries to play on a Pearl Eliminator and just can't do it right (true, the pedal was set for the owner's personal preferences, not George's, but anyway), so he brings his Axis pedals in order to demonstrate what he was until then only talking about. Those extreme speeds that George is playing obviously require a special pedal, and Axis isn't his (and many others') pedal of choice by mistake. Those pedals are much faster than regular pedals because of lighter footboards, because of longer footboards and because of the direct drive - they're truly 'precision pedals'.
George himself said he could play just as fast on his old Iron Cobra pedals, it just wouldn't feel as good.

Quote:
I wonder if the direct drive wears out faster than the chain or strap, given that it is bound to absorb the entire shock of each stroke, which the chain or strap would dissipate to a certain degree.
How do you imagine they dissipate it?
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  #17  
Old 12-13-2009, 07:25 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

@ DSCRAPRE-
I'm using a vintage mid-60's Speed King and I have to say its just as smooth as a Pearl Demon Drive, I tried them out at Tommy's Drum Shop (sell's Fibes drums) where they also had one of the new Speed Kings. You can find them cheap, and they are a real pleasure to play. Much better, more natural feeling than my friends Iron Cobras. That thing is built strong. It is probably one of the most famous direct drives there are, because they've been around forever, and they are innovative and just great.

Last edited by jodgey4; 12-13-2009 at 07:44 AM.
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  #18  
Old 12-13-2009, 07:40 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

jodgey4 - to each there own, aswell im glad to here that you enjoy your speedking pedal... what ever works for ya.
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Old 12-13-2009, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
... what ever works for ya.
Indeed true ...... whatever works "for you". Play every pedal you can, and buy the one that feels the best.
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  #20  
Old 12-22-2009, 04:51 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

I don't know if the fact i've never played any other double pedal then my $99 Sound Percussion but when I played the Demon Drive double pedal in the store the other day it was freaking amazing.
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  #21  
Old 12-22-2009, 05:14 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

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Originally Posted by Music is Awesome View Post
I don't know if the fact i've never played any other double pedal then my $99 Sound Percussion but when I played the Demon Drive double pedal in the store the other day it was freaking amazing.
That probably had allot to do with it. Play some other high end pedals and you'll probably feel the same way if not more blown away! BTW I found a yamaha flying dragon single pedal brand new on e-bay for $99 buy it now ;-)
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Old 12-22-2009, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSCRAPRE View Post
I know that Ludwig isn't exactly known for its high quality hardware. I have an opportunity to pick up a used SpeedKing for real cheap. Should I?

BTW: I already started this thread. But figured it would be better off here...
Ludwig hardware seems to have a bad rap, but for those of us who use the newer models I don't hear any complaints. I have a set of 900 (double braced) and 800 (single braced) hardware (snare stand, hihat, boom stands and cymbal stands) and I have absolutely no complaints; the stuff is well designed and sturdy. The same can be said of the 700 and 600 series stuff. Its just a bit less robust, and therefore easier to carry around. I also have a LM815RPR pedal and a Speedking. I prefer the Speedking, but the 815 is every bit as good as the high end DW, Pearl, etc chain driven pedals. I find the Speedking returns to the "start" position faster than the chain driven pedal...real smooth. My only pedal from the early 70s until last year was a Rogers Swivo, which I considered the Cadillac of pedals. but I'm sold on the Speedking...they're not for everyone, but check 'em out.
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  #23  
Old 12-22-2009, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
Bro, in the end I believe it's 99% hype. Once the chain or strap gets moving, it does the same crap that the metal linkage does. The only difference is that the footboard moves in unison with the direct linkage on every stroke, even the upstrokes.

I could take George Kollias and he would kick it on ANY decent pedal. I've seen Tim Waterson kick it on a crap pedal with a boot on!

I own them all BTW, Axis, Trick, Pearl Elim and Demon Drive. What I like about the new demon drive double pedal is the fact that it truly has the best slave pedal out there. The damn thing osciallates almost as much as the main one!

If I was using 2 kick drums, pedal choice would matter MUCH less.
It's simple physics that direct drive doesn't suffer from the lag of chain drive. It's not hype. I'll always love my Elims, but my Yamaha direct drives are superior.
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  #24  
Old 12-24-2009, 11:21 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

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Originally Posted by konaboy View Post
That probably had allot to do with it. Play some other high end pedals and you'll probably feel the same way if not more blown away! BTW I found a yamaha flying dragon single pedal brand new on e-bay for $99 buy it now ;-)
I did that today, buy I still the Demon owns the rest, it's much lighter and faster then the others. Didn't compare it with the Axis though, what would you guys prefer? Axis or Demon?
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:39 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

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Originally Posted by immortaljin View Post
I did that today, buy I still the Demon owns the rest, it's much lighter and faster then the others. Didn't compare it with the Axis though, what would you guys prefer? Axis or Demon?
Doesn't matter which we would choose, our feet and feel are totally different than yours ;-)

If it were me it would be Axis. I don't care for the feel of the demon drive
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Old 12-25-2009, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

I think both of them suck. They're light and especially in the Axis' case, cheap feeling. I need to feel the pedal, and Flying Dragons and Tricks have a nice weight to them.
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  #27  
Old 12-25-2009, 10:33 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Can someone tell me the difference between the yamaha flying dragon and the yamaha dfp9005d?
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Old 12-25-2009, 10:44 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

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Can someone tell me the difference between the yamaha flying dragon and the yamaha dfp9005d?
Do you mean the new 9500? I have both and they each have different strengths.

The Good: It's smoother and looks less industrial. The new springs are black and the whole pedal has been streamlined and modernized, which makes for the best looking pedal on the market. The adjustments are all done with a drum key, so no more Allen wrench. The driveshaft is much heavier-duty and the beaters are a vast improvement over the old one. A great improvement is that the new hoop clamp is all rubber, so no more hoop-marring metal clamp. The new case is like the Eliminator case and the pedal doesn't fold up, which I like, but some others who like the portability of the old pedal will hate.

The Bad: It no longer comes with a drum key, which isn't a big deal, but for that much money you should get one. The beater, which is no longer round felt, is not self-aligning.

The Fatal: You can no longer convert it from a double into two singles. The old slave pedal came with a hoop clamp, so all you needed to do was switch the spring and beater from one side to the other and you'd have two singles. Although you can switch the spring to the slave pedal, the base is completely different. If you only want to use it as a double it's perfect, as it has spikes where the hoop clamp should be that will keep the pedal stationary on carpet. The beater assembly is also absent on the slave pedal.

The new pedal is the ultimate double pedal, as it comes with a stabilizer instead of a hoop clamp, but it can't convert to a single in 30 seconds like the old Flying Dragon. If you only want a double pedal it's a great choice, and IMO the best choice, but if you want to switch between a double and two singles like I do it's not the right pedal for you.
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymetrix1618 View Post
Do you mean the new 9500? I have both and they each have different strengths.

The Good: It's smoother and looks less industrial. The new springs are black and the whole pedal has been streamlined and modernized, which makes for the best looking pedal on the market. The adjustments are all done with a drum key, so no more Allen wrench. The driveshaft is much heavier-duty and the beaters are a vast improvement over the old one. A great improvement is that the new hoop clamp is all rubber, so no more hoop-marring metal clamp. The new case is like the Eliminator case and the pedal doesn't fold up, which I like, but some others who like the portability of the old pedal will hate.

The Bad: It no longer comes with a drum key, which isn't a big deal, but for that much money you should get one. The beater, which is no longer round felt, is not self-aligning.

The Fatal: You can no longer convert it from a double into two singles. The old slave pedal came with a hoop clamp, so all you needed to do was switch the spring and beater from one side to the other and you'd have two singles. Although you can switch the spring to the slave pedal, the base is completely different. If you only want to use it as a double it's perfect, as it has spikes where the hoop clamp should be that will keep the pedal stationary on carpet. The beater assembly is also absent on the slave pedal.

The new pedal is the ultimate double pedal, as it comes with a stabilizer instead of a hoop clamp, but it can't convert to a single in 30 seconds like the old Flying Dragon. If you only want a double pedal it's a great choice, and IMO the best choice, but if you want to switch between a double and two singles like I do it's not the right pedal for you.
So you're talking about the 9500d or flying dragon? and which one has a heavier feel? i can't stand bass pedals like those cheaply made axis, those are way too light for me. I also only like playing on single bass kits, so not being able to converting from a double to two singles is no issue.
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  #30  
Old 12-26-2009, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

After a period of over two months directly comparing one high end pedal to the next, it was overwhelmingly the Trick Pro 1 v that outshined all the others... to me. It has great smoothness, greater power, completely silent mechanical operation, extremely fast and very easy to adjust without having to crawl on the floor with it's easy to reach drum key adjustments. You can very easily revert back to a previous setting because of the numbered cams. To me there is no other professional bass drum pedal.







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  #31  
Old 12-26-2009, 01:02 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

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Originally Posted by Dipschmidt View Post
So you're talking about the 9500d or flying dragon? and which one has a heavier feel? i can't stand bass pedals like those cheaply made axis, those are way too light for me. I also only like playing on single bass kits, so not being able to converting from a double to two singles is no issue.
Oops, I should have clarified that. That was copy pasted from a comparison of the two pedals when I first received the 9500D. The 9500D is the one I was talking about. If you don't plan on converting to two kicks like I do, go with the 9500D. The built-in stabilizer spikes are amazing for double pedal-only drummers.
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Old 12-26-2009, 01:04 AM
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Polymetrix1618 Polymetrix1618 is offline
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

I like the Trick pedal, but the benefits are outweighed by the price. I spend a lot on gear, but that's way too much. It feels only a bit better than the Yamaha, but it's double the price. I'd only get one if it was twice as a good or 1/8 more expensive.
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Old 12-26-2009, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

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Originally Posted by Polymetrix1618 View Post
Oops, I should have clarified that. That was copy pasted from a comparison of the two pedals when I first received the 9500D. The 9500D is the one I was talking about. If you don't plan on converting to two kicks like I do, go with the 9500D. The built-in stabilizer spikes are amazing for double pedal-only drummers.
So the flying dragon is basically a clone of the 9500d but able to convert to two singles?
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Old 12-26-2009, 01:06 AM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

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Originally Posted by Dipschmidt View Post
So the flying dragon is basically a clone of the 9500d but able to convert to two singles?
No. The Flying Dragon was the original pedal. The 9500D is it's replacement. They stopped making the Flying Dragons. It's an improved version, basically. One thing I think I forgot to mention, the FD's double pedal linkage was ridiculously short to the point that I used my Eliminator linkage, but the new one is built much better and much longer.
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Old 12-26-2009, 02:28 AM
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Dipschmidt Dipschmidt is offline
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

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Originally Posted by Polymetrix1618 View Post
No. The Flying Dragon was the original pedal. The 9500D is it's replacement. They stopped making the Flying Dragons. It's an improved version, basically. One thing I think I forgot to mention, the FD's double pedal linkage was ridiculously short to the point that I used my Eliminator linkage, but the new one is built much better and much longer.
Can you adjust the beater angle and foot pedal angle separately? On my first double pedal, you could adjust the beater angle, but it would adjust the foot board angle automatically with it. Also, do you know how long the foot board length is?
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Lets compare DIRECT DRIVE Kick Pedals!

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Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
After a period of over two months directly comparing one high end pedal to the next, it was overwhelmingly the Trick Pro 1 v that outshined all the others... to me. It has great smoothness, greater power, completely silent mechanical operation, extremely fast and very easy to adjust without having to crawl on the floor with it's easy to reach drum key adjustments. You can very easily revert back to a previous setting because of the numbered cams. To me there is no other professional bass drum pedal.







Dennis
i gotta admit that is a perdy pedal, looks beautifuly minimalist.

Last edited by joeysnare; 12-31-2009 at 02:03 PM.
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