Bass drum click

[HeadRush]

I have noticed that a great deal of people like this
but I don't really understand the appeal of just hearing a click when the bass is hit
can someone explain to me what is so great about it?
or maybe do any of you agree with me that it doesn't sound particularly good?

sorry if this topic sounds a bit rude about styles, but I just want to point out that I don't necessarily like it and I'd like to know why other people do.

-Erik

[Guz2]

Originally Posted by HeadRush

I have noticed that a great deal of people like this
but I don't really understand the appeal of just hearing a click when the bass is hit
can someone explain to me what is so great about it?
or maybe do any of you agree with me that it doesn't sound particularly good?

sorry if this topic sounds a bit rude about styles, but I just want to point out that I don't necessarily like it and I'd like to know why other people do.

-Erik

I agree, I don't like it either. I prefer just a good ol' thud

[bobdadruma]

I don't think that I understand what you mean? Can you give an audio example?

[Guz2]

Originally Posted by bobdadruma

I don't think that I understand what you mean? Can you give an audio example?

I'm guessing he means something like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2ciz...eature=related

[caddywumpus]

I don't particularly care for it either. I guess it's a way to make the bass drum stand out in a mix, but there are other ways to do that.

[That Guy]

It's funny that you started a thread about this because I was going to do it yesterday but forgot.

Personally, I think it was a late 80's to mid 90's thing in its popularity. Metallica used it on the "And justice for all" album, Pantera used it, Korn had it and a few other popular bands did as well. I have always thought it was a sound/engineering issue done purposely due to the type of monitor/speaker equipment of that time. If you listen to any album that has clicky bass drum tracks on 90's sound equipment it sounds good and different from any of the stuff that was around those days. Alot of electronic and music sampling was being done around that time and heavy bass frequencies were being used.

Who knows, it could have been a rebellious issue as well. One thing that I do know was that it seemed prominent in metal music at that period with popular bands and the same producers seemed to use it over and over again at that time.

[bobdadruma]

Originally Posted by Guz2

I'm guessing he means something like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2ciz...eature=related

Thank you, Thats along the lines of what I thought that he meant. Like Caddy said, It does give the bass drum more definition. It takes some of the low end from the recording. The tune has a lot of low end from the guitars. I actually don't think that it detracts a great deal from the music. It still has a tough metal feel.

[PQleyR]

Originally Posted by That Guy

It's funny that you started a thread about this because I was going to do it yesterday but forgot.

Personally, I think it was a late 80's to mid 90's thing in its popularity. Metallica used it on the "And justice for all" album, Pantera used it, Korn had it and a few other popular bands did as well. I have always thought it was a sound/engineering issue done purposely due to the type of monitor/speaker equipment of that time. If you listen to any album that has clicky bass drum tracks on 90's sound equipment it sounds good and different from any of the stuff that was around those days. Alot of electronic and music sampling was being done around that time and heavy bass frequencies were being used.

Who knows, it could have been a rebellious issue as well. One thing that I do know was that it seemed prominent in metal music at that period with popular bands and the same producers seemed to use it over and over again at that time.

I think different people used it for different reasons. Metallica needed it to bring the kick out past all those guitars. Pantera did it to make it sound really harsh and aggressive, like all the other drums. Korn needed it because the low-mid punch had to be sacrificed so Fieldy's bass could be more dominant, and it also meant it could be audible while retaining a low-fi aesthetic. Plus, CDs and digital recording meant it was possible to reproduce much more high frequencies than in the days of analogue everything. It's an interesting one.

[drummydude]

I know exactly what you're talking about. I hate it.

A band I was in in the late 90's was playing at a bar in Detroit called The Iroc. Great place to showcase original music. On our first gig there we were the 3rd band up of 3 bands. They had a house system and when the first band started I heard that clicking noise right away. When the second band was setting up I went and struck up a conversation with the sound guy. Then I asked him if I could come up and check out his gear. He said, sure. So when the second band started I listened for a while from the sound booth. Then I politely asked him if that click sound was deliberate. He said yes, why, dont ya like it? I said, nah not really, He said no problem I'll take it out when you guys get up. Everytime we played there afterwards when he was miking my kit he would say, no click, right?

Moral to the story? Be nice to the sound man because he can make your night really bad or really good.

[HeadRush]

thanks for the input guys
I do understand all of the arguments made but I still don't think it fits in with many of the things I enjoy and yet it is still used
I just love to hear that presence and thud that comes from an acoustic sound

it the couple of recordings I've done, I've somehow managed to get that (I don't know how I did it haha) and I feel that it fits with anything

[matt949]

the main use i see it is in fast double bass drumming. my guess is they do it because in a lot of the crazy fast metal there feet are going so fast that the sound might just get really muddy with no definition if they didnt use the clickier bass. i dont know though, because i have heard fast double bass thud. it's jsut a thought.

[ULTIMATEDRUMMER]

Im not much of a fan of it either.. Like it seems pointless to me, someone who wants a short high sound to have a 22" or 24" inch bass drum and stuff. I have a 18" BD that's is probably four times as deep cuz I know how to tune it, and don't use a pillow to hit a piece of plastic. It's fine and all for practice to keep the "boomy-ness" down, but seriously live? NO!

[ermghoti]

Originally Posted by HeadRush

I just love to hear that presence and thud that comes from an acoustic sound

The "original" clicky bass drum recording, on ...And Justice for All, was 100% acoustic.

Just sayin'.

[metal overlord]

I love my clicky bass drum. Clickier the better. It just sounds... metal? I don't know why actually. I just love the sound. My bass has a very... woody click to it. Just perfect.

Basically it can cut through, it doesn't sound muffled together during blast beats, it's clear, lots of definition.

Honestly, I can't really describe what braught me. I grew up listening to metal, and I heard Vinnie Paul's bass drum and immediately I was like "I want to sound like that". I wish I could answer why.

And, I'm quite the opposite of all y'all. I hate the "boom" of John Bonham, or "felty" sounding. I like a loud, clear, defined, full of attack bass drum. I could never use a felt beater (even though Lars did in ...And Justice for All). I hate the "soft" sound. I like mine hard and loud...

It's so hard to put this into words, I'm like half asleep right now.

Originally Posted by drummydude

I know exactly what you're talking about. I hate it.

A band I was in in the late 90's was playing at a bar in Detroit called The Iroc. Great place to showcase original music. On our first gig there we were the 3rd band up of 3 bands. They had a house system and when the first band started I heard that clicking noise right away. When the second band was setting up I went and struck up a conversation with the sound guy. Then I asked him if I could come up and check out his gear. He said, sure. So when the second band started I listened for a while from the sound booth. Then I politely asked him if that click sound was deliberate. He said yes, why, dont ya like it? I said, nah not really, He said no problem I'll take it out when you guys get up. Everytime we played there afterwards when he was miking my kit he would say, no click, right?

Moral to the story? Be nice to the sound man because he can make your night really bad or really good.

Good story! I agree, try to talk to the sound techs before soundchecking and see what they want your kit to sound like. If it's any different from the sound you're after, just find a way to accomodate both his and your own wishes as much as possible. Sound techs are your friends, not your enemies.

Back on topic: I like bass drums with some attack, but I want a deep "boom" as well, sort of like an explosion. My bass drum is pretty heavily damped (powersonic batter, PS3 reso), but I tune it up rather tight so I get a nice focused sound which sustains just long enough to be perceived as a drum rather than a cardboard box, but not long enough to be annoying in a mix. Add a slam patch to that, and use plastic beaters if the sound tech wants more attack, and voila, you're done.

[HeadRush]

Originally Posted by metal overlord

I love my clicky bass drum. Clickier the better. It just sounds... metal? I don't know why actually. I just love the sound. My bass has a very... woody click to it. Just perfect.

Basically it can cut through, it doesn't sound muffled together during blast beats, it's clear, lots of definition.

Honestly, I can't really describe what braught me. I grew up listening to metal, and I heard Vinnie Paul's bass drum and immediately I was like "I want to sound like that". I wish I could answer why.

And, I'm quite the opposite of all y'all. I hate the "boom" of John Bonham, or "felty" sounding. I like a loud, clear, defined, full of attack bass drum. I could never use a felt beater (even though Lars did in ...And Justice for All). I hate the "soft" sound. I like mine hard and loud...

It's so hard to put this into words, I'm like half asleep right now.

I would understand that someone would want that if they grew up "metal" but I just feel that it has been over-used and been applied to many settings that it doesn't necessarily sound good.

Originally Posted by ULTIMATEDRUMMER

Im not much of a fan of it either.. Like it seems pointless to me, someone who wants a short high sound to have a 22" or 24" inch bass drum and stuff. I have a 18" BD that's is probably four times as deep cuz I know how to tune it, and don't use a pillow to hit a piece of plastic. It's fine and all for practice to keep the "boomy-ness" down, but seriously live? NO!

another thing I see is that on some bands when playing live, they even strive for the click when on studio recordings, they have a dynamic mellow sound

p.s. 18 inch bass amaze me
I want one haha

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by metal overlord

I love my clicky bass drum. Clickier the better. It just sounds... metal? I don't know why actually. I just love the sound. My bass has a very... woody click to it. Just perfect.

Basically it can cut through, it doesn't sound muffled together during blast beats, it's clear, lots of definition.

Honestly, I can't really describe what braught me. I grew up listening to metal, and I heard Vinnie Paul's bass drum and immediately I was like "I want to sound like that". I wish I could answer why.

And, I'm quite the opposite of all y'all. I hate the "boom" of John Bonham, or "felty" sounding. I like a loud, clear, defined, full of attack bass drum. I could never use a felt beater (even though Lars did in ...And Justice for All). I hate the "soft" sound. I like mine hard and loud...

It's so hard to put this into words, I'm like half asleep right now.

Hey, just curious what beater are you using - (brand & hard rbubber / wood ? )

Thanks

[eddiehimself]

I personally like the clicky sound. The thing is that it's not just a "rebellion issue" or whatever, it's actually very useful for recordings because it's almost impossible to hear that "thud" when you're recording heavy music, the click also gives it more attack and a much tighter sound which is great for double bass.

[metal overlord]

Originally Posted by Chazz

Hey, just curious what beater are you using - (brand & hard rbubber / wood ? )

Thanks

Iron Cobra Wood beaters and Remo Falam Slam on the head.

Soon, I might get Danmar woods, and a Danmar click pad (or even cheaper, tape a silver dollar onto my head).


And yea, it can be "over used". I know where your comming from that way.

But in metal, it sounds good.
In Fall Out Boy? No.

[Crazy+Hands]

You really need that extra definition in heavy music, especially when the guitars are tuned down, which is what drove the whole idea forward in the first place.

For most of my drumming life I liked the boomy, bonham type sound, and for the first year or so after a i joined a thrash band I still used double 24" kick drums with no muffling. They sounded like subwoofers when mic'd...

Then, i bought axis pedals=bass drum speed increased substantially. Playing fast 16ths without a damnar patch or triggers or something to increase the attack is a futile endeavor...no one will be able to follow what your doing, including you while your on stage because all they hear is the resonance when the point of it all is to get the kick drum as loud and as in your face as possible...

I will say that the danmar metal kick pads are a little too clicky for most tastes, they sound pretty awful by themselves but in the mix of a loud as hell metal band they start to shine. your better off going with the power disk, its the best all around bass drum sound I think.

[Guz2]

Hmmm...People say it's to be prominent through the down-tuned guitars, but the bass drum on Load is a lot less clicky than the bass on ...AJFA and (I think, I'm probably wrong) that the guitars are tuned down further on Load than ...AJFA and you can still hear the bass drum.

[zambizzi]

I don't care for it but maybe that's because I'm not a metalhead. I like a nice punchy kick but the clicking seems a little weird. It definitely puts focus on the bass drum and I can see how a lot of double-kick playing would be better articulated w/ the additional click sound.

[PQleyR]

Actually, it also allows kick drums to cut through a massively compressed mix, which may be another reason why it's popular.

[eddiehimself]

Originally Posted by Guz2

Hmmm...People say it's to be prominent through the down-tuned guitars, but the bass drum on Load is a lot less clicky than the bass on ...AJFA and (I think, I'm probably wrong) that the guitars are tuned down further on Load than ...AJFA and you can still hear the bass drum.

Yeah, a whole half step! He didn't mean E flat tuning, he meant like C and B and even lower tunings then that. I was recording a song in C tuning and it's just almost impossible to hear the bass drum without that click and what sound there is just doesn't have any attack whatsoever. It's also about fast double bass drumming, you wouldn't believe how when you start to get the speed up on double bass pedalling you can just loose all definition if your bass drum isn't tuned right. Just listen to one, the "click" is the only thing you can hear because the rest of the sound is just not fast enough to keep up with that double bass pedalling. Also the other problem is that if you still have that boom sound, when you start to play fast your poor bass player just gets completely lost in the mix. So if you have an old school bass drum you just end up in a recording with a bass drum with no attack and just a completely boomy sound at the bottom of the mix drowning out the bass guitar. It sounds terrible, trust me.

At the end of the day it's a bass DRUM and when you're talking about modern types of lower tuned/fast metal with lots of fast double bass, the DRUM definetly takes precidence over the BASS.

[metal overlord]

Originally Posted by eddiehimself

Yeah, a whole half step! He didn't mean E flat tuning, he meant like C and B and even lower tunings then that. I was recording a song in C tuning and it's just almost impossible to hear the bass drum without that click and what sound there is just doesn't have any attack whatsoever. It's also about fast double bass drumming, you wouldn't believe how when you start to get the speed up on double bass pedalling you can just loose all definition if your bass drum isn't tuned right. Just listen to one, the "click" is the only thing you can hear because the rest of the sound is just not fast enough to keep up with that double bass pedalling. Also the other problem is that if you still have that boom sound, when you start to play fast your poor bass player just gets completely lost in the mix. So if you have an old school bass drum you just end up in a recording with a bass drum with no attack and just a completely boomy sound at the bottom of the mix drowning out the bass guitar. It sounds terrible, trust me.

At the end of the day it's a bass DRUM and when you're talking about modern types of lower tuned/fast metal with lots of fast double bass, the DRUM definetly takes precidence over the BASS.

Exactly.

My band play's in drop A with all that low end thunder you'll never hear a bass drum.
And I still have to double mic both kicks so you can hear me.

[HeadRush]

I guess one thing I'm confused about
is why do you all want your bass drum to be so noticeable over all of the other drums?

[Crazy+Hands]

Originally Posted by HeadRush

I guess one thing I'm confused about
is why do you all want your bass drum to be so noticeable over all of the other drums?

During many riffs metal guitar players pic along with the kick drums, and without extra attack they can't hear what your doing and it won't sound as tight.

Also, most drummers lead with their feet during blast beats/skanks so if you can't hear the attack of the drum, it will sound sloppy because you can't follow your "anchor" in the beat. The click of the bass drum also makes bonham-style triplet fills between the toms/snare and kick(s) sound much more cohesive and more like a roll between hands and feet.

[eddiehimself]

Originally Posted by HeadRush

I guess one thing I'm confused about
is why do you all want your bass drum to be so noticeable over all of the other drums?

It's not nesiceraly supposed to be more noticable, it's supposed to be the same really but i think because it's such a dry, tight sound compared to the other drums in a recording that it might have that effect. The reason it's so noticable i thought i'd already explained. It's because in metal it is a hugely important percussive tool. It's almost like the way the snare is used in traditional drumming but because you're using your feet it means that doubles and triples and fast rolls are no longer restricted to fills and you can keep on playing a beat above it which in conjunction with the guitars and bass gives you an extremely heavy sound when used right. That's basically the fundemental basis of heavy, fast metal music and without the very important tight, cutting sound that you get with the clicky bass drum, the music simply wouldn't be the same.

[Guz2]

Actually, I've decided I like it. But not when It's over done, like on the Pantera alum Far Beyond Driven, for example

[spirit]

Hard one to imagine- this click! I have heard people say that DW bass drums have a thwak kinda sound maybe due to the holes near the tension lugs on the heads- I dunno! For me I prefer for rock my bass drum to sound full and thud real deep.
But like any drum set up its a matter of preferance in the end and I guess a combination of experiance, heads, wood, beater and many more variables or it could be simply they have no clue it could be better and thats all they know or are used too.
To be honest for my first 2 years learning to play the drums- tuning was not mentioned much at all.We certainly never ever had a lesson in head seating, tuning or selection. I learned all that myself with trial and error and from asking more experianced drummers advice later on in my travels- I aint proud and if it helps me why not.

[diosdude]

When I'm playing thrash or something else as fast, there needs to be 100% articulation in the bass drums or they might become an indiscernable rumble that blends with bass guitar, especially if the band detunes to drop D or lower. Any drum smaller than bass will have frequencies that naturally cut through the mix. Back in my techno-speed-grindcore days my guitarist would lock on to my double bass like a superfast metronome. That wasn't possible unless i had my bass drums triggered out to a highly compressed sample. The result sounded like a great white shark, riding on top of an elephant, trampling and eating everything in its path.

www.myspace.com/torquemetal

[freebirdgdw]

I like a sort of middle ground between the rock 'thump' and the metal 'click'. It's because there's nothing like having a great big bass sound in rock music but in some faster passages with heavy guitar, you do need some separation in the sound. I like a fairly deepish sound but plenty of attack. I've got a danmar double bass pad atm but its too clicky for me and it's meant to be un-removeable :(. I think next time I'll go with one of the evans pads which is meant to enhance attack.