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  #1  
Old 02-24-2009, 03:00 AM
Muse FTW Muse FTW is offline
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Default I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

While I love the actual rack because of its' sturdiness and stability, I cannot stand the angles that I am forced to mount all of my toms and cymbals on!

It is quite annoying because while I like the no slip guarantee! The drum manager of my local Sam Ash insisted that I buy the ICON because he said that the Gibraltar V-Rack suffers from mad slippage!

I've recently seen some pictures of the V-Rack and it looks pretty sturdy!

Has anybody had any bad experiences with the Gibraltar V-Rack? I'm going to wait to go back to Sam Ash to see if it's just me and if I think that the rack is not up to my standards, I'll exchange it with the V-Rack.

Besides that, I'm just nitpicking. The rack itself is perfect but I'm just not a fan of the mounting angles (which look FAR superior on the V-Rack).

Thanks in advance for the info! This forum has REALLY helped me with many recent purchases and I'm glad I joined! It's like an infinite supply of knowledge!!!
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Old 02-24-2009, 03:26 AM
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

I have the V-rack attached to my PDP rack (they're the same tube-size). Presently I have two splashes, a china, and my hi-hat arm clamp attached. Never had the slightest slip of anything. With that, the PDP tubes are identical, but have different tom holdersand other associated hardware...relatively the same science though...thus, I emphatically disagree that round-tube racks suffer from slippage. If you set it right, incorporate the use of locking-clamps and not strike like Thor, you should be good to go. Even if you do hit like your aiming to kill something...they haven't moved on me.

I hit hard and haven't ever had a slip, yet.

***another thing - what kind of kit are you attaching and what do the tom holders look like (omni-ball?)

Last edited by sticksnstonesrus; 02-24-2009 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:37 AM
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

The Pearl PCX-200 Tilting clamp w/adjustable jaws should solve your dilemma. http://www.alpha-music.com/productca...dcategory=1106
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:31 AM
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse FTW View Post
While I love the actual rack because of its' sturdiness and stability, I cannot stand the angles that I am forced to mount all of my toms and cymbals on!

It is quite annoying because while I like the no slip guarantee! The drum manager of my local Sam Ash insisted that I buy the ICON because he said that the Gibraltar V-Rack suffers from mad slippage!

I've recently seen some pictures of the V-Rack and it looks pretty sturdy!

Has anybody had any bad experiences with the Gibraltar V-Rack? I'm going to wait to go back to Sam Ash to see if it's just me and if I think that the rack is not up to my standards, I'll exchange it with the V-Rack.

Besides that, I'm just nitpicking. The rack itself is perfect but I'm just not a fan of the mounting angles (which look FAR superior on the V-Rack).

Thanks in advance for the info! This forum has REALLY helped me with many recent purchases and I'm glad I joined! It's like an infinite supply of knowledge!!!
Can you show us a picture??
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:01 PM
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

The thing you have to watch out for is large toms, 14" and above, when mounting them on any of the round, pipe-style racks.

If I ever go with a rack again, I would go with a Pearl to get away from the slipping issue, but that is just for me.

You might want to reconsider how you sit and have your kit set-up. Raising your drum throne height might help you out.

You might need to consider getting new tom mounting arms to get the angles that you need too.
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:42 PM
Muse FTW Muse FTW is offline
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

I'll try to get a picture up by the afternoon today. Thanks again.
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  #7  
Old 02-24-2009, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by sticksnstonesrus View Post
...and not strike like Thor...
I like that phrase... a lot!
I'm struggling with some mathematics in a computer program (I work with a program called Maple, so there's a vague similarity to something that might be relevant to the forum) and it doesn't work like I want it to, which is really getting on my nerves... but that phrase made me smile. Thanks!

Edit: ironically, I am trying to work with some low frequency sound fields in maple... get it? low frequencies, maple...
Anyway, sorry about going off topic.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCG199 View Post
The thing you have to watch out for is large toms, 14" and above, when mounting them on any of the round, pipe-style racks.

If I ever go with a rack again, I would go with a Pearl to get away from the slipping issue, but that is just for me.

You might want to reconsider how you sit and have your kit set-up. Raising your drum throne height might help you out.

You might need to consider getting new tom mounting arms to get the angles that you need too.

I've got a Gibraltar three-sided rack with absolutely everything hanging off it, including 14" and 16" toms and at times two rides. I think the kitchen sink is in there too somewhere. A couple of relatively inexpensive locking clamps go a long way. I've had absolutely no issues.

That being said, the Yamaha hex rack does look intriguing...albeit a bit pricey.

Cheers!
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

Re-iterating what harryconway said, the pcx-200 tilting clamp opens up vastly more angles not available with the standard clamp. Also, try raising or lowering your vertical bars, that might help greatly. And if you're still determined to trade, the gibraltar is a fine rack, but the slippage thing is not an urban legend, it's real. Kind of like, "my grandad smoked cigarettes, 2 packs a day 'til he was 99". Okay, that's fine, but let me tell you about my friend, Devon who died of lung cancer at the ripe age of 24. Got a crystal ball?
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by diosdude View Post
And if you're still determined to trade, the gibraltar is a fine rack, but the slippage thing is not an urban legend, it's real.
I'm having a hard time remembering anyone on here who's complained about their Gibraltar racks slipping....

I've got my 14 floor tom, as well as every other device of my drumkit, hung off on my PDP/gibraltar rack, and hit like I'm trying to prove something...no slippage.

IMHO though, if you've already got the rack (the ICON) I would surely find a way to make it work before I sent it back or traded it out.
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  #11  
Old 02-26-2009, 03:45 PM
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Trip McNealy Trip McNealy is offline
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

You can't go wrong with either rack system.. I've used both and utlimately settled on a Pearl ICON 501C (just two sides). I've never had any slip on Gibraltar tube racks and I don't tighten my clamps down like Thor (lol).

I do wish however, Pearl make different sizes of their square/curved racks, perhaps 24" or 36" bars instead of the standard 48" or whatever it is.
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  #12  
Old 02-27-2009, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by diosdude View Post
the slippage thing is not an urban legend, it's real.
It's real, in that it's happened, when people lack common sense and don't tighten the clamps sufficiently. And no, you don't have to crank them down like vices nor use memory locks on them. (I only use a lock on the clamp that holds my rack toms, because if the clamp ever does fail [and that's what it'd have to do to slip- fail], I don't want them to fall on my bass drum.) Your slippery-slope statement is implying that all round-rack clamps will slip even when used correctly. I have used my Gibraltar rack since 2001 and not one clamp has ever slipped. This isn't just for setup for gigs, either- my kit stays assembled for (unfortunately) long periods between gigs sometimes, and for the duration, while played semi-heavily during rehearsals and then sitting & supporting the weight in-between, nothing has moved a single millimeter unless I purposely moved it. And really, use your noodle for a minute- if it was a fundamental design problem, causing many slip disasters, would all the round-tube racks still be manufactured? No, slippage isn't an urban legend, but it's not a problem for anyone but the most lame-brained either.

I'm not saying the Pearl rack is a scam- the square tubes do, without a doubt, completely eliminate the possibility of a clamp slipping, as per their intent. Translation: they've made it doofus-proof.
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

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Originally Posted by diosdude View Post
the slippage thing is not an urban legend, it's real. Kind of like, "my grandad smoked cigarettes, 2 packs a day 'til he was 99". Okay, that's fine, but let me tell you about my friend, Devon who died of lung cancer at the ripe age of 24. Got a crystal ball?

Clarify my statement: I have owned and still own and use gibraltar round racks (currently i use a v-rack for my gig kit). The one i am using right now i don't have any problems with. The one i used previously, many years ago, i had chronic slipping from a 15" power depth (square) pearl export rack tom. I have heard the comment that slippage comes from people over-tightening their racks, well here's the conundrum:

What if my big tom keeps slipping? Then tighten it down a little until it stops slipping. Well, what if that's over-tightening it? Then it will cause even more slipping to occur. Well then , what if my big tom starts slipping again? Then tighten it down a little until it stops slipping. Well, what if that's over-tightening it? Then it will cause even more slipping to occur. Well then , what if my big tom starts slipping again? Then tighten it down a little until it stops slipping. Well, what if that's over-tightening it? Then it will cause even more slipping to occur. Well then , what if my big tom starts slipping again?
Then tighten it down a little until it stops slipping. Well, what if that's over-tightening it? Then it will cause even more slipping to occur. Well then , what if my big tom starts slipping again? Then tighten it down a little until it stops slipping. Well, what if that's over-tightening it? Then it will cause even more slipping to occur. Well then , what if my big tom starts slipping again?

Just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and no, it's not because "people don't use common sense". Common sense dictates that if you experience slippage, you start tightening down the clamps, because that's your only option. However, that could lead to the circular conundrum situation. Again, this is not being "lame brained", either. Anyone who thinks it doesn't happen because "it hasn't happened to me" is trying to disprove a negative and that argument has no basis in the court of logic. Again, that's like trying to argue that cigarettes don't cause lung cancer because "my grandad has smoked 2 packs a day for 70 years and never had lung cancer". Everybody accepts the FACT that cigarettes MAY cause lung cancer. The FACT is that round rack systems MAY cause slippage. So what? Whoever smoked and got lung cancer didn't use common sense like my grandad? Does that make sense? I can also say with 100% certainty that slippage is impossible with a square rack system.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

The other detail I would like to point out is that slippage should be reduced on the Gibraltar racks if one uses their Road series clamps over the original Power rack clamps.

They are more expensive, but one can save money by only using them in the areas where there is more of a chance of slippage, such as the larger toms and cymbals.
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: I am seriously reconsidering my Pearl ICON drum rack purchase.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by diosdude View Post
Clarify my statement: I have owned and still own and use gibraltar round racks (currently i use a v-rack for my gig kit). The one i am using right now i don't have any problems with. The one i used previously, many years ago, i had chronic slipping from a 15" power depth (square) pearl export rack tom. I have heard the comment that slippage comes from people over-tightening their racks, well here's the conundrum:

What if my big tom keeps slipping? Then tighten it down a little until it stops slipping. Well, what if that's over-tightening it? Then it will cause even more slipping to occur. Well then , what if my big tom starts slipping again? Then tighten it down a little until it stops slipping... (edited for redundancy)

Just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and no, it's not because "people don't use common sense". Common sense dictates that if you experience slippage, you start tightening down the clamps, because that's your only option. However, that could lead to the circular conundrum situation. Again, this is not being "lame brained", either. Anyone who thinks it doesn't happen because "it hasn't happened to me" is trying to disprove a negative and that argument has no basis in the court of logic. Again, that's like trying to argue that cigarettes don't cause lung cancer because "my grandad has smoked 2 packs a day for 70 years and never had lung cancer". Everybody accepts the FACT that cigarettes MAY cause lung cancer. The FACT is that round rack systems MAY cause slippage. So what? Whoever smoked and got lung cancer didn't use common sense like my grandad? Does that make sense? I can also say with 100% certainty that slippage is impossible with a square rack system.
I never said it doesn't happen- in fact, I said it does, for 2 reasons- gear failure (i.e. your clamp might've been faulty), or user failure. Yes, common sense dictates that you try tightening a clamp first, and then if that doesn't work, common sense dictates that the clamp is either defective or has a fundamental design flaw. The latter is clearly not the case with all round rack clamps, otherwise most would do it. I don't know your particular situation. Was your old one the previous Power Rack series? That might've been the issue, since Gibraltar states in their literature that one shouldn't use the Power Rack clamps on the Road Series tubes- and I've always thought that was weird, since (I think), the tubes of each series are the same diameter...? I can only guess that they're saying "our old ones suck, don't use 'em anymore"...!

Funny that you proved my statement true after arguing for the opposite- since your current round-tube rack doesn't have slippage problems, then there's no fundamental design flaw in the gear. Just because your old one did doesn't mean they all do. Your smoker example isn't really accurate either- I think what you meant to say was that an exception to a general rule doesn't absolutely disprove the rule. True, a smoker that doesn't get cancer doesn't disprove that smoking usually causes cancer. Also true that a round-tube rack that has slippage issues doesn't disprove that round-tube racks usually don't slip. (Also, your statement "The FACT is that round rack systems MAY cause slippage." is worded awkwardly- did you mean "The fact is that slippage is possible on round-tube racks"? The rack doesn't cause the slippage.) Your "urban legend" statement implies that drummers generally believe that slippage is a myth and doesn't exist. While that's clearly not true, there are enough working drummers who use round-tube racks with no issues whatsoever (including you, with your current one) that one has to generally accept that slippage problems aren't rampant, and a result of fundamental design flaws. They're (obviously approximately) 99% the result of user failure or a bad piece of gear.

"I can also say with 100% certainty that slippage is impossible with a square rack system." So can I, and I said exactly that in my previous post. I also didn't specifically state that you were being "lame-brained", but that most people with slip problems aren't using them correctly, since gear failure isn't rampant. Sorry if my wording implied I was singling you out. I wasn't.
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