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  #1  
Old 01-15-2009, 01:51 AM
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Default Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ahp7HU4yr84

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  #2  
Old 01-15-2009, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

wonder how it compares to trick pedals

that duo-deck feature is pretty baller i must say
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  #3  
Old 01-15-2009, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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Originally Posted by randomhero243 View Post
wonder how it compares to trick pedals

that duo-deck feature is pretty baller i must say
Looks like a rip-off of AXIS, or even Taye. I am guessing it won't be popular among Christian drummers...

I noticed the ad now jumps on the direct-drive bandwagon...and directly downplays chain drive. They also tout "zero play" that axis had had for years. No more multiple cams!!!

The convertible long/short board pedal is a good idea.

Good marketing spin after years of eliminator chain drive hype! If they are priced reasonably they could really take off. They look like good pedals.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

well sofar i pearl havent gone wrong with their pedals and especially for the price so im guessing that these pedals will be great. just how long do i have towait to try one :(
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

blah, blah, blah...more script please.

Nice to see Pearl making it to the direct drive world. Nice to see Pearl endorsers earning their keep. There isn't anything the Demon does that isn't already market-available. Except for the converting longboard action...cause ya know, players are looking to change the dynamic configuration of their pedals all the time. Try and be as consistent as possible...naw....lets change it up. Personally, I'm aset it and forget it type. Once I got my Axis Longboards dailed in, they haven't changed, ever.

Like the other pedals out there... anyone, given enough patience and time, could practice their way to greatness with it. Look at the vintage Speed King niche just on DW... you couldn't pry them from their SK's...and could probably play circles around the demon drive. Same with chain and strap-drive users...some just do better with the "old stuff".

Granted Pearl has always made a good product which I'm sure this is. Something about that video and the way they're trying to sell it off like it's the best thing since sliced bread, made my stomach turn.

my $.02.

Andy
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  #6  
Old 01-16-2009, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

well well well, look at the great bargain price for this pedal:

http://www.steveweissmusic.com/produ...ss-drum-pedals

Yeah, didn't see that coming. They did everything they could to rip off the trick pedal without directly infringing on it's patents but the sad thing is, they even copied the ridiculously high price. The only thing i see superior about the demon is the feature to convert from standard to longboard, but honestly, everyone's just going to set it to longboard and forget about it for the duration that they own it.

z-link universal joint? It's the same design concept that trick uses and sonor uses in its giant step.

Beater stroke adjustment is a direct rip off of trick's patented 3 way adjuster (Pearl has a 2 way)

Trick's compression spring> this pedal's stretch spring action but some people prefer that little bit of assist.

My overall opinion, Pearl defitiely has copied ERRR... designed the most awesome pedal on the planet. Now here comes the tidal wave of whines about the price being out of reach to Joe-GarageBand.
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

Oh snap, i just noticed something majorly different in the designs. Trick's dominator actually seperates into 2 identical single pedals (which i do frequently, since my studio/ rehersal kit is a true double kick and i just use a double pedal on my single-kick gig kit). I can't tell in the photo of the double demon if the slave pedal can be used independently (does it have a spring on it?). If not, that is a major advantage for the Trick pedal.
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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Originally Posted by diosdude View Post
Oh snap, i just noticed something majorly different in the designs. Trick's dominator actually seperates into 2 identical single pedals (which i do frequently, since my studio/ rehersal kit is a true double kick and i just use a double pedal on my single-kick gig kit). I can't tell in the photo of the double demon if the slave pedal can be used independently (does it have a spring on it?). If not, that is a major advantage for the Trick pedal.
Plus, if it's about the same price, why wouldn't you go with the Trick? It seems like the Trick can do everything the Demon can do, only better.
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

I hope the geniuses at Trick though take a good look at the photo of the demon. They have a clip on the pedal board to attatch the "L" shape drum key to it. I told them (Trick) in an email a year ago when i got the dominator bigfoot that they should do it with THEIR pedal. Damn Pearl, stealing my ideas now, too. Hell they probably read it here on drummerworld's forum that i posted a few months back.
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  #10  
Old 01-18-2009, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

Has anyone tried a B.O.A.?
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  #11  
Old 01-21-2009, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

I played them at NAMM and they are a significant improvement over existing direct drives...

I know, I have had both the Axis and Trick since they first came out. I have been playing direct drive type pedals for about 20 years.

There are significant differences, first off, the ball bearings used in the new Pearl are an entire order of magnitude smoother than what Axis and Trick are using. You haven't felt smooth until you've tried these.

The action is smoother. The pedals feel glued to your feet.

The slave pedal gives MANY more oscillations when the beater is put into motion than does the Trick. The slave on the Pearl feels better than most main pedals.

They convert from long to shortboard in minutes. They can be used as two singles or a double.

The linkage between the pedal board and the solid "strap" is ball bearing mounted. This is something that I have always wanted. In a direct drive pedal, if that linkage is not perfectly straight it tends to wear unevenly and screw things up. That problem is eliminated with these pedals.

It's adjustable 9 ways til Sunday.

I don't really care about how many adjustments a pedal can make, the most critical thing is that the pedal feels like an extension of your foot. These pedals do that beter than any other.

I would suggest not buying that new pedal you were looking at until these new pedals hit the stores.

The price will be about the same as the Tricks. Prices for pedals like these are high because of the increasing cost of quality. It is often 10 times more costly to go from 99% quality to 99.9% quality. In actual fact 99.9 is 10 times more accurate than 99%( 1 bad out of 1000 instead of 1 bad out of 100).

As you near the limit, progression becomes more difficult/expensive.

Are the Tricks and Axis pedal bad? Hell no. But the Demon Drive is the next level.
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  #12  
Old 01-21-2009, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

well i think i know what im saving for after my new saluda, plus i can get some deals from my cousin at steve weiss

Last edited by Mastershake16; 01-21-2009 at 02:45 AM.
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  #13  
Old 01-21-2009, 01:43 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
I played them at NAMM and they are a significant improvement over existing direct drives...

I know, I have had both the Axis and Trick since they first came out. I have been playing direct drive type pedals for about 20 years.

There are significant differences, first off, the ball bearings used in the new Pearl are an entire order of magnitude smoother than what Axis and Trick are using. You haven't felt smooth until you've tried these.

The action is smoother. The pedals feel glued to your feet.

The slave pedal gives MANY more oscillations when the beater is put into motion than does the Trick. The slave on the Pearl feels better than most main pedals.

They convert from long to shortboard in minutes. They can be used as two singles or a double.

The linkage between the pedal board and the solid "strap" is ball bearing mounted. This is something that I have always wanted. In a direct drive pedal, if that linkage is not perfectly straight it tends to wear unevenly and screw things up. That problem is eliminated with these pedals.

It's adjustable 9 ways til Sunday.

I don't really care about how many adjustments a pedal can make, the most critical thing is that the pedal feels like an extension of your foot. These pedals do that beter than any other.

I would suggest not buying that new pedal you were looking at until these new pedals hit the stores.

The price will be about the same as the Tricks. Prices for pedals like these are high because of the increasing cost of quality. It is often 10 times more costly to go from 99% quality to 99.9% quality. In actual fact 99.9 is 10 times more accurate than 99%( 1 bad out of 1000 instead of 1 bad out of 100).

As you near the limit, progression becomes more difficult/expensive.

Are the Tricks and Axis pedal bad? Hell no. But the Demon Drive is the next level.
With how established you are here, you're obviously not a Pearl rep. But besides the price, are there any flaws with this pedal?
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  #14  
Old 01-21-2009, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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Originally Posted by trkdrmr View Post
I am guessing it won't be popular among Christian drummers...
hahah I don't think they'll mind it.
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Old 01-21-2009, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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Originally Posted by 805Drummer View Post
With how established you are here, you're obviously not a Pearl rep. But besides the price, are there any flaws with this pedal?
I only had about 10 minutes total playing time on it so I can only give first impressions. I can't vouch for its long-term durability or how well all of the adjustments hold up after years of abuse.
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Old 01-21-2009, 03:33 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
I only had about 10 minutes total playing time on it so I can only give first impressions. I can't vouch for its long-term durability or how well all of the adjustments hold up after years of abuse.
Looks like a compromised version of the trick. Stretch strings the next level? GMAB!!! Seriously, it's a step backward. Look at tricks easily adjustable compression spring knobs.

Adjustability? Cam design? Nothing new there.

It does have the long/short board conversion, but I use long boards only....that feature is of no use to me.

The latest "fad" is to say how little difference "woods" make in a drum kit. In the same time frame, we have hyper-exaggeration about the difference between pedal performance...not feel, performance. If anything, it is the single most exaggerated aspect of drumming.

I'll keep my bigfoot pedals over those things, thanks.

Last edited by trkdrmr; 01-21-2009 at 04:04 AM.
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  #17  
Old 01-21-2009, 04:32 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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Originally Posted by trkdrmr View Post
Looks like a compromised version of the trick. Stretch strings the next level? GMAB!!! Seriously, it's a step backward. Look at tricks easily adjustable compression spring knobs.

Adjustability? Cam design? Nothing new there.

It does have the long/short board conversion, but I use long boards only....that feature is of no use to me.

The latest "fad" is to say how little difference "woods" make in a drum kit. In the same time frame, we have hyper-exaggeration about the difference between pedal performance...not feel, performance. If anything, it is the single most exaggerated aspect of drumming.

I'll keep my bigfoot pedals over those things, thanks.
I actually think that the differance in slave-master pedal makes somewhat of a differance. I cannot use some cheaper double pedals, they just throw off my playing (yeah, I know, it's bad. But I just cannot deal with cheap pedals). Personally it's a bit too over-hyped, like you said.
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:35 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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I actually think that the differance in slave-master pedal makes somewhat of a differance. I cannot use some cheaper double pedals, they just throw off my playing (yeah, I know, it's bad. But I just cannot deal with cheap pedals). Personally it's a bit too over-hyped, like you said.
We are in agreement here. Since playing pedals with two active sides, I will never go back to the active/drone double pedals. I am willing to bet that in the next 5 years, the standard is raised for all premium pedals to be active on both sides, and the old active/passive paradigm will end, except in the crummy entry level pedals.

I have no appreciation for cheaply made, sloppy pedals with lots of play either.
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
I played them at NAMM and they are a significant improvement over existing direct drives...

I know, I have had both the Axis and Trick since they first came out. I have been playing direct drive type pedals for about 20 years.

There are significant differences, first off, the ball bearings used in the new Pearl are an entire order of magnitude smoother than what Axis and Trick are using. You haven't felt smooth until you've tried these.

The action is smoother. The pedals feel glued to your feet.

The slave pedal gives MANY more oscillations when the beater is put into motion than does the Trick. The slave on the Pearl feels better than most main pedals.

They convert from long to shortboard in minutes. They can be used as two singles or a double.

The linkage between the pedal board and the solid "strap" is ball bearing mounted. This is something that I have always wanted. In a direct drive pedal, if that linkage is not perfectly straight it tends to wear unevenly and screw things up. That problem is eliminated with these pedals.

It's adjustable 9 ways til Sunday.

I don't really care about how many adjustments a pedal can make, the most critical thing is that the pedal feels like an extension of your foot. These pedals do that beter than any other.

I would suggest not buying that new pedal you were looking at until these new pedals hit the stores.

The price will be about the same as the Tricks. Prices for pedals like these are high because of the increasing cost of quality. It is often 10 times more costly to go from 99% quality to 99.9% quality. In actual fact 99.9 is 10 times more accurate than 99%( 1 bad out of 1000 instead of 1 bad out of 100).

As you near the limit, progression becomes more difficult/expensive.

Are the Tricks and Axis pedal bad? Hell no. But the Demon Drive is the next level.
I'm with trkdrmr on this one, stretch spring is a step backwards, I'll bet that the action on a ludwig speed king is superior to the demon drive due to string compression. To say that the ninja bearings make it faster than the axis or trick is ludicrous. Come on, Jeff almeyda, senior consutant, your foot doesn't feel bearing fluidity, it feels SPRING TENSION. Sheesh . Anyone who claims that has bought into the hype. Go ahead and google or wiki "ninja bearings". All it is is a brand name of some skateboard company who claims (like every other one on the market) to have produced the most advanced ones on the market. I also have owned this:



which were awesome, and by far called the smoothest here on the internet, but then i upgraded to these:



So i have a personal testimony to back up my performance claims. Simply saying, "these are an order of magnitude greater" is ridiculuos... by an order of magnitude. I can personally testify that my double bass blast beat increased from 204bpm single stroke sixteenths with the DW 9000, which i owned for 2 years, to 216 bpm simply by switching to the Trick. I am definitely going to buy the pearl demon drive for my own satisfaction to put it to the acid test to find out if it truly is the best, and hey, If i'm doing 217 bpm with it, guess what? The Trick's going on ebay.

I'll reserve judgement on the demon until i get my foot on one.
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:21 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

does anyone know if the new pearls are gonna have a good amount of throw to them? i ask this because i have owned the axis longboards and those really had no throw at all.
and trkdrmr, im a christian drummer and im looking forward to these pedals for sure!
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:34 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

Quote:
Originally Posted by diosdude View Post
I'm with trkdrmr on this one, stretch spring is a step backwards, I'll bet that the action on a ludwig speed king is superior to the demon drive due to string compression. To say that the ninja bearings make it faster than the axis or trick is ludicrous. Come on, Jeff almeyda, senior consutant, your foot doesn't feel bearing fluidity, it feels SPRING TENSION. Sheesh . Anyone who claims that has bought into the hype. Go ahead and google or wiki "ninja bearings". All it is is a brand name of some skateboard company who claims (like every other one on the market) to have produced the most advanced ones on the market. I also have owned this:



which were awesome, and by far called the smoothest here on the internet, but then i upgraded to these:



So i have a personal testimony to back up my performance claims. Simply saying, "these are an order of magnitude greater" is ridiculuos... by an order of magnitude. I can personally testify that my double bass blast beat increased from 204bpm single stroke sixteenths with the DW 9000, which i owned for 2 years, to 216 bpm simply by switching to the Trick. I am definitely going to buy the pearl demon drive for my own satisfaction to put it to the acid test to find out if it truly is the best, and hey, If i'm doing 217 bpm with it, guess what? The Trick's going on ebay.

I'll reserve judgement on the demon until i get my foot on one.
Wow, First off, take your confrontational attitude and shove it bro. Don't call me out by name. You don't exactly sound like you are "reserving judgment".

I never said that the bearings made the pedal faster. I said that the feel was smoother. Re-read my post. The slave pedal on these is more responsive than any other I've ever felt. That does have something to do with a smoother bearing that produces less friction that that used by the competition. So yes, I do feel "bearing fluidity", albeit indirectly. Pearl made no bones about them being taken from skateboards. They actually had skateboard wheels as part of the display at NAMM but you weren't there to see it.

How could you say that I only felt spring tension? How about the fact that the slave pedal has significantly more oscillations than your beloved Tricks? Is that due to spring tension? Obviously not.

I would say that the Tricks were better to me if I felt that way but I don't. I also don't see or feel anything special about the compression spring besides the quick tension adjust. I set it and forget it anyway. Why is the conventional expansion spring a "step backwards"? Force is force, the resistance curves are slightly different but there is no evidence that any one is "better" than any other. The fact that the current speed record was done on an Axis with a "primitive" conventional spring tends to bear me out. Believing that a compression spring is inherently superior now THAT is buying into the hype.

BTW, I have the Tricks, 2 pairs of Axis, A pair of Eliminators and an Offbeat so I speak from experience.

Look, I don't care what you play. I'm actually playing Elim strap drives right now and loving them. Just don't jump down my throat if you don't like what I like.
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  #22  
Old 01-23-2009, 06:44 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

I tired them at NAMM.

I loved them, I thought it's the best pedal I've ever tried. And I admit, I want one.

But at that price? Well, it will be a long time before I actually buy one.
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Old 01-23-2009, 03:53 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post

Why is the conventional expansion spring a "step backwards"? Force is force, the resistance curves are slightly different but there is no evidence that any one is "better" than any other. The fact that the current speed record was done on an Axis with a "primitive" conventional spring tends to bear me out.
There is not enough objectivity in this argument. You also got a little personal there...not cool.. There is some reaching going on in your post. Posters get called out all the time because they are the one that made the comment, rather than some generic reference to "an above post." I fully agree "order of magnitude" is absurd. At minimum, that's like saying the pearl is 10 to the 1st power faster?

Compression:
The compression spring is sealed. No contaminates can get in. The compressions springs will likely never stretch, break or wear out. They won't get caught in anything. They are easier to adjust on the trick with a large knob that doesn't require contortion or pedal removal to adjust. The Pearl seems more parts-bin than innovation. Maybe they could have stolen drumnetics restorative force? Sure, it's a restorative force, but it's a step up from a 100-year-old tension spring.

The only reason axis won, is the guy didn't use trick or something else. Are you implying that Trick couldn't win? That's disproving a negative. "The axis is the best because the winner used axis." Huh? What if the winner used Yamaha? I'd say that makes the winner the best, but not necessarily the pedal.

Last edited by trkdrmr; 01-24-2009 at 06:23 PM.
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  #24  
Old 01-23-2009, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
Wow, First off, take your confrontational attitude and shove it bro. Don't call me out by name. You don't exactly sound like you are "reserving judgment".

I never said that the bearings made the pedal faster. I said that the feel was smoother. Re-read my post. The slave pedal on these is more responsive than any other I've ever felt. That does have something to do with a smoother bearing that produces less friction that that used by the competition. So yes, I do feel "bearing fluidity", albeit indirectly. Pearl made no bones about them being taken from skateboards. They actually had skateboard wheels as part of the display at NAMM but you weren't there to see it.

How could you say that I only felt spring tension? How about the fact that the slave pedal has significantly more oscillations than your beloved Tricks? Is that due to spring tension? Obviously not.

I would say that the Tricks were better to me if I felt that way but I don't. I also don't see or feel anything special about the compression spring besides the quick tension adjust. I set it and forget it anyway. Why is the conventional expansion spring a "step backwards"? Force is force, the resistance curves are slightly different but there is no evidence that any one is "better" than any other. The fact that the current speed record was done on an Axis with a "primitive" conventional spring tends to bear me out. Believing that a compression spring is inherently superior now THAT is buying into the hype.

BTW, I have the Tricks, 2 pairs of Axis, A pair of Eliminators and an Offbeat so I speak from experience.

Look, I don't care what you play. I'm actually playing Elim strap drives right now and loving them. Just don't jump down my throat if you don't like what I like.

Look man, i sincerely apologize if calling you out for your claim offended you, DW is a place for civilized discussions, i get that, so again, I'm sorry if i was a jackass.

My train of thought goes something like this for compression vs stretch: With a compression spring the tension is CONSTANT even when action applied against it reverses direction. A stretch spring continues in its vector until it has enough force built up in it to cause it to contract. An overly simplified illustration of this is a slinky toy. Hold it in one hand and drop the bottom. The slinky reaches toward the floor, drawn by gravity and then it whips back up due to strecthing spring action. Now imagine a jack-in-the-box. The jack in the box spring immediately expands due to constant tension as soon as opposite force is released. Now i realize that the stretchiness in a drum pedal spring is truly several orders of magnitude less than a slinky but no one can deny that it's there. It may be so minute on the new Demon Drive that not even Tim Yeung or Tim Watterson can feel it, but it's definitely still there so while it probably feels like the pedalboard has that glued-to-your-foot "literal" action, it just can't be the equal of the Ludwig speed king or the Trick dominator.

As far as oscillations from the slave, yes that is directly due to spring tension. Take your Trick back out of the closet and set it up. release the spring tension on both the master and slave pedal fully. Now, press down on both of them and release at the same time, the action should be very close. Now, incrementally tighten the tension on the slave and repeat the experiment. Do it again and again and again. As you increase the spring tension the oscilations become much more rapid and the beater comes to rest a lot sooner. That proves that oscilation is directly linked to spring tension. When you demo'ed the demon at NAMM, you probably tried a pedal that had tension set very low. The only way to prove that the demons' bearings develop less friction is to take the bearings out of one of the pedals and replace them with the other one's, then you could perform the same CONTROLLED experiment and whichever set up had the more oscilations would truly be the one with less friction. Another thing is replacing the featherweight beaters on the Trick with heavier beaters will also increase oscilations significantly. I personally don't think that the difference in bearing friction between the demon, the axis, the DW9000, or the Trick is significant enough to be felt by a human foot. Even if it is, it can only be by the slightest margin, not orders of magnitude. That's what got me so riled up, as a "senior consultant" your voice carries much more credibility to the casual DW visitor than us normal pranksters so your praise of a product should be in moderation, not exageration. Your claim just sounded like one of the Tim's could belt out like 400 bpm sixteenth note singles on it. And if it's of any consolation it's actually your recommendation, since you've owned both the trick and the axis, that has swayed me away from buying a second trick for my gig kit and trying out the demon instead.
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  #25  
Old 01-23-2009, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

Didn't Bowflex in the last couple years go from those long band resistance bars to a compression spring?

Sorry...My ADHD kicking in.
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  #26  
Old 01-23-2009, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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Didn't Bowflex in the last couple years go from those long band resistance bars to a compression spring?

Sorry...My ADHD kicking in.
Yep, I have one of those.
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  #27  
Old 01-24-2009, 12:10 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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Originally Posted by diosdude View Post
Look man, i sincerely apologize if calling you out for your claim offended you, DW is a place for civilized discussions, i get that, so again, I'm sorry if i was a jackass.

My train of thought goes something like this for compression vs stretch: With a compression spring the tension is CONSTANT even when action applied against it reverses direction. A stretch spring continues in its vector until it has enough force built up in it to cause it to contract. An overly simplified illustration of this is a slinky toy. Hold it in one hand and drop the bottom. The slinky reaches toward the floor, drawn by gravity and then it whips back up due to strecthing spring action. Now imagine a jack-in-the-box. The jack in the box spring immediately expands due to constant tension as soon as opposite force is released. Now i realize that the stretchiness in a drum pedal spring is truly several orders of magnitude less than a slinky but no one can deny that it's there. It may be so minute on the new Demon Drive that not even Tim Yeung or Tim Watterson can feel it, but it's definitely still there so while it probably feels like the pedalboard has that glued-to-your-foot "literal" action, it just can't be the equal of the Ludwig speed king or the Trick dominator.

As far as oscillations from the slave, yes that is directly due to spring tension. Take your Trick back out of the closet and set it up. release the spring tension on both the master and slave pedal fully. Now, press down on both of them and release at the same time, the action should be very close. Now, incrementally tighten the tension on the slave and repeat the experiment. Do it again and again and again. As you increase the spring tension the oscilations become much more rapid and the beater comes to rest a lot sooner. That proves that oscilation is directly linked to spring tension. When you demo'ed the demon at NAMM, you probably tried a pedal that had tension set very low. The only way to prove that the demons' bearings develop less friction is to take the bearings out of one of the pedals and replace them with the other one's, then you could perform the same CONTROLLED experiment and whichever set up had the more oscilations would truly be the one with less friction. Another thing is replacing the featherweight beaters on the Trick with heavier beaters will also increase oscilations significantly. I personally don't think that the difference in bearing friction between the demon, the axis, the DW9000, or the Trick is significant enough to be felt by a human foot. Even if it is, it can only be by the slightest margin, not orders of magnitude. That's what got me so riled up, as a "senior consultant" your voice carries much more credibility to the casual DW visitor than us normal pranksters so your praise of a product should be in moderation, not exageration. Your claim just sounded like one of the Tim's could belt out like 400 bpm sixteenth note singles on it. And if it's of any consolation it's actually your recommendation, since you've owned both the trick and the axis, that has swayed me away from buying a second trick for my gig kit and trying out the demon instead.
Ok, we're cool.

As far as the oscillations go, yes, you get more oscillations when the pedal is looser but I was specifically referring to the difference in the number of oscillations between the slave and the master pedal on the double pedal setup when both are setup the same. I was surprised at the number of oscillations that the slave made.This is where the lower friction assembly shines. Obviously, the slave will never be as good as the master but Pearl has narrowed the gap.

This point obviously only applies to the double pedal guys. I believe that you use two separate kick drums so that point wouldn't really apply to you.
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

The answer in part is yes. I have read all of Todd's posts, and most of Bermuda's. Not once did either of them tell someone to "shove it" for "calling them out." Nor did either one of them infer that because someone won a contest with a certain brand that it must be the best product. While I personally respect all pro drummers, they don't always make the most unbiased contributions. I appreciate Jeff's participation, status and experience. I think some of the other posts made about him (I.E. Pearl rep) were uncalled for as well. However, some of Jeff's comments invited counterpoint. Just because a pro says something, doesn't make it incontestable. I mean no disrespect.
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  #29  
Old 01-24-2009, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

I cant wait for a DW 10000 to come out and utterly decimate everything currently on the market (he he he).
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  #30  
Old 01-24-2009, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

But they are just pedals.
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  #31  
Old 01-25-2009, 06:38 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

Posts deleted. Please feel free to continue the discussion about the product in question. Personal insults and attacks will lead to bans. Have a nice day.
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  #32  
Old 01-25-2009, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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Originally Posted by trkdrmr View Post
There is not enough objectivity in this argument. You also got a little personal there...not cool.. There is some reaching going on in your post. Posters get called out all the time because they are the one that made the comment, rather than some generic reference to "an above post." I fully agree "order of magnitude" is absurd. At minimum, that's like saying the pearl is 10 to the 1st power faster?

I said that the bearings were an order of magnitude smoother. I did not say that the pedals were an order of magnitude faster. Yes, I know that an order of magnitude is 10x. The engineer (a brilliant young Japanese guy) from Pearl told me that the bearings used in these peals were, in some cases, up to 10x smoother than what other manufacturers are using.

That's why I made the comment about 99.9 being 10x more accurate than 99.

Thank you.
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  #33  
Old 01-25-2009, 05:41 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
I said that the bearings were an order of magnitude smoother. I did not say that the pedals were an order of magnitude faster. Yes, I know that an order of magnitude is 10x. The engineer (a brilliant young Japanese guy) from Pearl told me that the bearings used in these peals were, in some cases, up to 10x smoother than what other manufacturers are using.

That's why I made the comment about 99.9 being 10x more accurate than 99.

Thank you.
I am sure it's a great pedal, and it was well made. Pearl has deep pockets and they make great stuff. I am just not a "hype" guy. Too many times I have been promised similar things (BOA, Catapult, and so on) just for a big disappointment. Not to mention products with name drummers attached that didn't pass muster for me.

I will say that I am sponsored by Trick, I prefer trick, but as I have said many times in the past: once you get to a competent pedal (like the crop of $300+ pedals we have) then it's more about feel and convenience than any real difference is performance.

I did not mean to sound abrasive toward you in particular. I read posts all the time that have dubious numbers attached to them. I have given up on other forums, due to the repeated "OMG, my ELIM is wikkid sick...it's One million times faster than the IC!"

Thank you for your contributions here!

Last edited by trkdrmr; 01-25-2009 at 05:52 PM.
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  #34  
Old 01-25-2009, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

Quote:
Originally Posted by trkdrmr View Post
I am sure it's a great pedal, and it was well made. Pearl has deep pockets and they make great stuff. I am just not a "hype" guy. Too many times I have been promised similar things (BOA, Catapult, and so on) just for a big disappointment. Not to mention products with name drummers attached that didn't pass muster for me.

I will say that I am sponsored by Trick, I prefer trick, but as I have said many times in the past: once you get to a competent pedal (like the crop of $300+ pedals we have) then it's more about feel and convenience than any real difference is performance.

I did not mean to sound abrasive toward you in particular. I read posts all the time that have dubious numbers attached to them. I have given up on other forums, due to the repeated "OMG, my ELIM is wikkid sick...it's One million times faster than the IC!"

Thank you for your contributions here!
Cool, I know how things can get on a forum, no hard feelings at all.

I agree that, at the top end, it really becomes a matter of feel and personal preference. I have found that my personal preference has changed over the years as well. When I played more straight ahead fast long roll sections I liked the pedal a certain way. (Axis, Sonic Hammer, tight springs).

Now that I'm playing more syncopated passages which often require lead foot changes I've found that the Eliminators with the strap drive and red cam felt best for me. I probably can't go as balls-out fast on these but they feel better suited to this style of playing.

I'll get the Pearls when they come out because I'm a nut. The true test will be whether I am still using them in a year.
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  #35  
Old 01-25-2009, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

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Now that I'm playing more syncopated passages which often require lead foot changes I've found that the Eliminators with the strap drive and red cam felt best for me.
I like to read stuff like that. We are suddenly being bombed with "Chain drive is best!" and "Direct drive is best." Yet I have been reading a lot of people are going back to strap drive, which was the greatest thing since sliced bread right before chain drive took over.
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  #36  
Old 01-25-2009, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

Well it's good to see that we can all act civilized here. Please read my last post guys, i'm not knocking the pearl demon at all, i'm sure its probably the second or third most awesome pedal on the planet (can't call it the first until i buy it and like it). All i am saying that it probably comes down to personal preference. Honestly as far as superiority in design is concerned, not a single one of us here on drummerworld is qualified to answer on that unless we have a mechanical engineering degree, i have my own strong opinions about spring action and i consider all other aspects about the demon, the trick , the axis and the 9000 probably on the same elite level. Jeff's personal vouch (not endorsement) of the demon actually has got me seriously thinking about buying one now (i'm not sponsored by anybody). As far as trkdrmr's statements, he's sponsored by trick (obviously from his namesake) so he's doing his job to endorse and defend his product. And just so everyone knows, he's not one to go around tooting his horn, while we were all lounging around our comps on DW, sipping our budweisers, diet cokes or mocha lattes, Trkdrmr was lying low in Iraq trying not to get his keister blown off by AlQueida and iraqi insurgents so please treat HIM with respect when you post your messages the same as you would Jeff.
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  #37  
Old 01-26-2009, 06:24 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

when does the demon drive come out? also, being that they are gonna be expensive i wonder if they are gonna take off. i say this because it would be very easy for pearl to just discontinue the demon drive and just keep selling their other models if the demon drive does not sell.
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  #38  
Old 02-02-2009, 08:02 AM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

First of all some of you get way to emotional about things. Calm down, take a deep breath and relax. We are all here for the same thing, sharing information, experience and wisdom.

I'm very interested in playing these. If they play as good as they look I'll buy a pair. Right now I own 6 other sets of pedals so whats 1 more. From what I understand, they won't be available until April or May. The only concern I have is parts availability. If it take 6-8 weeks to get replacement parts it's not gonna be a good day for someone on the other end of that phone call. Beside, if I don't like them I'll ebay them at top dollar.
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  #39  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Pearl Eliminator Demon Drive Promo on Youtube!

is a direct drive pedal worth the mony compaird to a chain drive?
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