HELP!!

BonzoMoonMan4492 · #1 12-02-2008, 10:53 PM

So I'm a heavy hitting drummer, who looks up to drummers such as John Bonham, Keith Moon, Ian Paice, Neil Peart, Mitch Mitchell, and other drummers in that vain. I've been having a problem with cymbals for a while now. I first cracked 16 and 18 in ZBT crashes, which probably had to do with the thickness and the tightness on the stand. However, after I adjusted those by cutting the cymbal stand felts (about 1/3" each now) and getting thicker cymbals (PST 5 Rock series), I still managed to kill the 16 and 18 in crashes. Now I've been hearing that cymbals that are too thick are just as likely to crack as hitting a thin cymbal really hard. So now I don't know what to do. Any suggestions?

ZootELoops · #2 12-02-2008, 10:56 PM

Instead of striking the cymbal straight on - try more of a glancing angle. This is a tip from Jojo M.

SharkyBait911 · #3 12-02-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoMoonMan4492

So I'm a heavy hitting drummer, who looks up to drummers such as John Bonham, Keith Moon, Ian Paice, Neil Peart, Mitch Mitchell, and other drummers in that vain. I've been having a problem with cymbals for a while now. I first cracked 16 and 18 in ZBT crashes, which probably had to do with the thickness and the tightness on the stand. However, after I adjusted those by cutting the cymbal stand felts (about 1/3" each now) and getting thicker cymbals (PST 5 Rock series), I still managed to kill the 16 and 18 in crashes. Now I've been hearing that cymbals that are too thick are just as likely to crack as hitting a thin cymbal really hard. So now I don't know what to do. Any suggestions?

Your probably hitting the cymbal in the wrong way, Your ment to hit it with a glancing blow and not right on the edge plus not with the acorn of the stick. But the another possiblilty is that the cymbal stands are too tightly holding the cymbal, Hit the cymbal it should be able to wobble freely! i have my cymbals as loose as possible and another thing, having small felts isn't a good thing it's a bad thing ! Get nice big, soft felts to pad the cymbal and cushion your "hard hitting " Technique.

Thanks

Tris

drumguyfromWI · #4 12-02-2008, 11:04 PM

1. don't buy entry-level cymbals (that is, if you can afford good ones)

2. only hit as hard as you need to whilst still getting a good sound out of the cymbal. (I know it may be hard not to hit hard, but you have to try if you don't want broken cymbals.)

3. try to give the crashes a glancing blow instead of straight on.

4. stay away from super-thick "Rock" or "Metal" crashes. they are so thick that they can't flex as well and absorb the blow from your sticks, and thus, more prone to cracking. there are plenty of thinner crashes out there that are just as loud and cutting as heavy crashes. (a great example: Sabian AAXplosion crashes)

Cymbalrider · #5 12-03-2008, 04:28 AM

other than what has already been said, I can say the best advice is simply don't play so hard. A cymbal only has a certain volume, and hitting it harder will not solve this problem. Find the minimum amount of power for the maximum amount of sound and stay there for loud parts. Also play off the cymbals, not through them. Another aspect is that sheet bronze cymbals --being more copper-- bend easier so they are not as strong as b20s. I've hammered a b8 ZBT myself so I know how much impact these cymbals can absorb. Don't play with heavy sticks either. Anything larger than a 5B is ridiculous and usually sounds bad as well. It is possible to play loud without breaking stuff. Look at Gene Krupa or Chick Webb who used to play on fickle calf heads with super thin splash cymbals but could drive an over twenty member big band without electronics in a huge concert hall. Buddy Rich played hard and fast too, but you didn't see him breaking sticks, heads, cymbals and such all over the place.

LeeLovesSabian · #6 12-03-2008, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drumguyfromWI

1. don't buy entry-level cymbals (that is, if you can afford good ones)

2. only hit as hard as you need to whilst still getting a good sound out of the cymbal. (I know it may be hard not to hit hard, but you have to try if you don't want broken cymbals.)

3. try to give the crashes a glancing blow instead of straight on.

4. stay away from super-thick "Rock" or "Metal" crashes. they are so thick that they can't flex as well and absorb the blow from your sticks, and thus, more prone to cracking. there are plenty of thinner crashes out there that are just as loud and cutting as heavy crashes. (a great example: Sabian AAXplosion crashes)

Follow all of this advice, plus:

Don't beat the hell out of your cymbals!!!!!!

I hope that helps.
Good luck.

bonzolead · #7 12-03-2008, 04:30 PM

Sweep the Cymbal don't. try too go into the cymbal stand LOL and make sure the isn't. any metal to metal contact between the cymbal

and the cymbal stand that will crack them everytime.I'm a Heavy-Hitter also when I want to be and that's what works for me and also don't.

over-tighten your cymbal on the stand make sure it has a little give.

Good luck,
Bonzolead

king fail · #8 12-03-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymbalrider

other than what has already been said, I can say the best advice is simply don't play so hard. A cymbal only has a certain volume, and hitting it harder will not solve this problem. Find the minimum amount of power for the maximum amount of sound and stay there for loud parts. Also play off the cymbals, not through them. Another aspect is that sheet bronze cymbals --being more copper-- bend easier so they are not as strong as b20s. I've hammered a b8 ZBT myself so I know how much impact these cymbals can absorb. Don't play with heavy sticks either. Anything larger than a 5B is ridiculous and usually sounds bad as well. It is possible to play loud without breaking stuff. Look at Gene Krupa or Chick Webb who used to play on fickle calf heads with super thin splash cymbals but could drive an over twenty member big band without electronics in a huge concert hall. Buddy Rich played hard and fast too, but you didn't see him breaking sticks, heads, cymbals and such all over the place.

This is a very good point.
There is only so much volume you can get from a cymbal, so if you really want to play forte and upwards on your cymbals, do this:

take each cymbal on your kit (hats count as one, obviously) and spend 30 minutes with it;

strike it with different parts of your stick, strike it at different angles, on different parts of the cymbal.

Take the cymbal from ppp to fff, pay very close attention, and find the point where it stops sounding good.

As i'm sure you know, smashing the hell out of it will not make it sound nice.

dkerwood · #9 12-03-2008, 07:55 PM

My best advice is smaller, lighter sticks. I suspect that's what ultimately finished off my second-hand K Custom- I didn't have my 747s handy, so I just grabbed some 5Bs. After that, I noticed cracks where there were only scratches before.

Also, you might check to make sure that between the cymbal post and the sleeve, the total diameter is not too big to allow your cymbals to move freely. Sometimes you can stick torque the cymbal (especially at an extreme angle) and crack it, regardless of everything else.

#10 12-03-2008, 08:38 PM

Please post a video of yourself .....this will tell a lot about what's possibly going on. Technique,..the way the cymbals are mounted, etc, etc...

drumguyfromWI · #11 12-03-2008, 10:54 PM

I agree with cymbalrider in that any drumstick larger than 5B is ridiculous and unnecessary for drum kit playing (big sticks are for marching band snare drums! not a drum kit! would you use a tennis racket for playing ping-pong?), and that you can play hard and fast while not breaking things all the time. you just need the proper technique and the proper equipment.