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  #1  
Old 11-14-2008, 03:54 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Die cast rims A/B'd with triple flanged

Hey all, I did an experiment the other day and wanted to share. I've always had die cast rims on all my toms. I got my first set of DW's in June, they come with regular rims and I was always curious to see how the die casts would affect things. So I performed an experiment. First I got the Drum Dial and got the bottom head of my 10 x 9 tom at 80 at all lugs, then I tensioned the top head to 72. I then recorded about 1 minute of me hitting the tom using a Rode NT1A mic (condenser) from a distance of about 3 feet.
Then I changed the batter hoop only to the die cast, tensioned the same head to 72 again, and recorded another minute on a different track.
Then I listened through a pair of Mackie SRM450's, A/Bing between the 2 tracks.
On a scale of 1 - 10, to my ears the difference was a 1
I had to really listen hard for any differences, but basically, they sounded the same.
On the tom hits that I let sustain, I felt that the regular rims had slightly more shell overtones than the die cast, but again it was hard to discern.
I didn't change the reso hoop for the experiment.
I thought for sure I would hear a noticeable difference, but I couldn't. This finding surprised me, I thought I would notice a big difference, but I didn't.
I wonder if I changed the reso hoop to a die cast if that would have changed anything dramatically. I'm doubting it.
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  #2  
Old 11-14-2008, 06:50 PM
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BattleArmor BattleArmor is offline
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Default Re: Die cast rims A/B'd with triple flanged

Thats interesting. You should try it with the reso head too though. Because so many people play Die cast there has to be a reason.
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  #3  
Old 11-14-2008, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: Die cast rims A/B'd with triple flanged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinsyk17 View Post
Because so many people play Die cast there has to be a reason.
aesthetics... die cast hoops look beautiful...
they also feel heavier to hit... to me at least.

id like to see two more things in this experiment.
1) a/b on the snare. the higher tension may bring out a more significant difference in tone and timbre.
2) a/b/c with triple-flanged / die-cast / wood type hoops. i have heard many things about the sound of wood hoops but have never heard them in a controlled environment. i would love to see a side-by-side(-by-side) and really judge the effects...

cool experiment. good job.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: Die cast rims A/B'd with triple flanged

Yeah originally, I thought I wanted die cast hoops. My DW hoops are black, and black die cast in 10 12 and 16 are not readily available (13's and 14's are easily had) After a good bit of searching and a few phone calls, I finally found out that I can order Tama black die cast's in the sizes I needed through GC, great! But before I took the plunge, I figured maybe I'd better do an experiment with some chrome die casts I had laying around. So I went in mentally favoring the die casts, and when I heard essentially the same sound in the recordings, I figured well hell, why spend the dough? I didn't perform the experiment on any of my larger toms, because of the result with the 10".
Now I did notice a difference in my snare drums, I did that a while ago. I didn't record them, I just switched rims and played them. I definitely prefer die casts on my snare, all my main snares have them.
I also have a pair of 19 ply maple wood hoops for my snare drum that I bought to try. I don't know, I like that metallicy ring in a snare drum, and the wood hoop kinda mellowed it out too much for me.

I'd be interested to see if anyone else gets the same results I did with the toms. So I'm in no hurry to get the die casts. Maybe I'll experiment on the larger toms next time switching both rims, just for shits and giggles...
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Die cast rims A/B'd with triple flanged

First off...Larry hows business? You seem to have too much time on your hands.>>ROFL! All kidding aside though that really is an interesting hypothesis...I am with TB you should try that route as well. I am certain that many of us would find your findings rather interesting. Thanks for sharing.

JIM
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  #6  
Old 11-14-2008, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Die cast rims A/B'd with triple flanged

Yeah, larryace, thanks for the insight. Is it possible to post a link to the sound clips so we can hear them, too? It would make for an interesting discussion/thread, I'm sure...

I tried putting a die-cast hoop on my 14" DW floor tom, and it made a huge difference, I thought. I definitely prefer the triple-flange...
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  #7  
Old 11-14-2008, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: Die cast rims A/B'd with triple flanged

Drumhead you nailed it, business is slow ha ha
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  #8  
Old 11-14-2008, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Die cast rims A/B'd with triple flanged

Caddy, excellent idea. I'll get right on it.
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  #9  
Old 11-15-2008, 12:07 AM
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Default Re: Die cast rims A/B'd with triple flanged

At Caddy's request, for your perusal and general amusement, I shall now present sound files of my A/B experiment pitting Pearl "Mastercast"die cast hoops against DW stock triple flanged hoops on a 10 x 9 DW lacquered maple shell. Gather the family around, and put some corn in the popper, they won't want to miss this. Only the batter hoops were changed to protect the innocent. I'm running clear Ambassadors top and bottom. Drum Dial 72 batter 80 reso. Enjoy.
Attached Files
File Type: wav triple flanged.wav.WAV (4.42 MB, 547 views)
File Type: wav die cast.wav.WAV (4.42 MB, 401 views)
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  #10  
Old 11-15-2008, 01:21 AM
trkdrmr
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Default Re: Die cast rims A/B'd with triple flanged

That is a great experiment! I am glad *someone* finally did it.

I have always considered die-cast a cosmetic, else a waste of money. They do have a slight damping effect, but no big deal to me just as you stated. Hard to discern.

I like the rim clicks the best from s-hoops over either die cast or triple flanged. They sound sharp like die cast with a bit of body like flanged.

I think yamaha, if anyone had the right idea to at least make the toms die cast hoops from lightweight metal.

Anyway, I'd like to see a double blind a/b/x between drum kits. I'd like to see if people could pick out a DW vs a sonor delite oe a Pearl MRX vs Yamaha Maple custom.
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