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  #1  
Old 11-03-2008, 03:23 PM
goblinz goblinz is offline
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Default Ghost Notes

hey guys, i have a question abt ghost notes.in some videos i have seen, people usually do double or triple ghost notes when they hit a single hit on the ride or on the hi hat before accenting, i find it very hard to do, but i want to learn it because it just sounds great. do people to these by using the moeller or because it is easier to do whilst using the traditional grip ? any tips or advice would be appreciated (

Thx
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  #2  
Old 11-03-2008, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

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Originally Posted by goblinz View Post
hey guys, i have a question abt ghost notes.in some videos i have seen, people usually do double or triple ghost notes when they hit a single hit on the ride or on the hi hat before accenting, i find it very hard to do, but i want to learn it because it just sounds great. do people to these by using the moeller or because it is easier to do whilst using the traditional grip ? any tips or advice would be appreciated (

Thx
Hey man!
Yeah ghost notes are some cool thing, eh?
I love them too, they make a very "colorful" sound ;)

Well, one thing is for sure. You can do it either traditional or matched grip and just use low strokes the key of doing this is to NOT LIFT your stick (the one that is ghosting the notes) high keep it real low and use a little of bit of rebound depending the amount of notes you want to ghost :D

Hope this works! :D
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Old 11-03-2008, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

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Originally Posted by h3r3tic View Post
Hey man!
Yeah ghost notes are some cool thing, eh?
I love them too, they make a very "colorful" sound ;)

Well, one thing is for sure. You can do it either traditional or matched grip and just use low strokes the key of doing this is to NOT LIFT your stick (the one that is ghosting the notes) high keep it real low and use a little of bit of rebound depending the amount of notes you want to ghost :D

Hope this works! :D
True, ghost notes are not articulated. You do not directly use your muscles to make them, but instead rely on the rebound.
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Old 11-03-2008, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

'people usually do double or triple ghost notes when they hit a single hit on the ride or on the hi hat before accenting,'

Ghosts are often played on the snare following, or precursing, the backbeat, depending on rhythm intent. You might check out Charles Dowd's 'A Funky Primer for rock drummers'. On pages 16 thru 19 are left handed exercises that incorporate basic 'ghost rebounds'. Depending on your experience, take these exercises slow at first and use a metronome. Remember to let em' bounce softly.
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  #5  
Old 11-03-2008, 06:12 PM
Drifter in the Dark Drifter in the Dark is offline
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

I recommend checking out drummers who are true masters of the ghost note, such as Bernard Purdie (there's an awesome video here on Drummerworld of him demonstrating his signature 1/2-time "Purdie shuffle") and Clyde Stubblefield, who recorded the original Funky Drummer beat with James Brown. He only played with James for about a year (1969-'70), but during that time he recorded some of the FUNKIEST tracks ever! In the Jungle Groove is a great collection of songs from around that time period that prominently feature his playing, and IMO is essential listening for any drummer.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

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Originally Posted by goblinz View Post
people usually do double or triple ghost notes when they hit a single hit on the ride or on the hi hat before accenting,
Are you talking about something like this (with the accented note on the downbeat)?:

rrR rrR rrR rrR

If so, that's just a couple of quiet notes followed by an accent. Work up your speed, and you can use your fingers for the quiet notes and a wrist stroke for the accent. Sounds great, I agree, and is pretty easy to work up to your highest speed.

Ghost notes are typically very quiet notes that fall between the main notes of a beat, almost like a whole new pattern underlying the main beat pattern. I don't know that playing them is easier with traditional grip. Might be harder, actually, in my opinion (I play both grips).
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  #7  
Old 11-03-2008, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

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Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
True, ghost notes are not articulated. You do not directly use your muscles to make them, but instead rely on the rebound.

Not sure that's always the case. In fact, the more I learn and develop technique, the more it seems that the only way to get truly even and funky sounding ghosts are to articulate each one of them, the exception being a short crush roll effect. Careful articulation ensures that the ghosts are as quiet and evenly placed as possible. Rebound seems to leave a little to much to chance, a little too messy.
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2008, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

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Originally Posted by jonescrusher View Post
Not sure that's always the case. In fact, the more I learn and develop technique, the more it seems that the only way to get truly even and funky sounding ghosts are to articulate each one of them, the exception being a short crush roll effect. Careful articulation ensures that the ghosts are as quiet and evenly placed as possible. Rebound seems to leave a little to much to chance, a little too messy.
Well it depends on how you let the stick rebound... To be honest I think when playing the softest notes you can like in ghost notes, when I drop the stick on that very low height it feels TO ME that my hand is bringing the stick up.
Really weird. But it looks like the stick is rebounding, I mean the stick is doing the job for me and not the other way :P lol
But anyway, in a emotional aspect it does feel to me that my hand is bringing the stick up...

When you see guys like Dom Famularo and Danny Britt explaining the different heights on the free stroke you see them putting one stick crossing the other to show you how far does the stick come back up hitting the crossing stick on the rebound. But even Danny Britt says that on the low stroke it is very difficult to execute this type of "visual demonstration" because the stick from what I've seen is in such a low height like almost touching the pad, that it feels that I'm pulling the stick up at that very position.

But once again it is rebound... but it just feels odd :P lolol
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Old 11-04-2008, 02:31 AM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

It depends on the speed of the song sometimes but I usually use an even balance of double/triple bouncing the stick and finger technique.
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2008, 03:34 AM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

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Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
True, ghost notes are not articulated. You do not directly use your muscles to make them, but instead rely on the rebound.
Wait a minute...WHAT?!?!?!

However loud you want your ghost notes to be, that's how high above the head you play them, doing a very quiet stroke. The same exact stroke you would use to play a loud note, just from a closer starting point to the head. You don't just let the stick fall from your hand...if that were the case, you would never be able to play fast ghosted notes...
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  #11  
Old 11-04-2008, 09:15 AM
goblinz goblinz is offline
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

thx for the replies guys. i got a brief understanding on how to do them now. another question is that is there any way i can practise ghost notes on a pad? becuz my brother is having exams which is gona last for 3 weeks so i cant play the drums for the time being ><, if so, can i have any exercises which can help me develop fast doubles and triple ghost noting?
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2008, 10:29 AM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonescrusher View Post
Not sure that's always the case. In fact, the more I learn and develop technique, the more it seems that the only way to get truly even and funky sounding ghosts are to articulate each one of them, the exception being a short crush roll effect. Careful articulation ensures that the ghosts are as quiet and evenly placed as possible. Rebound seems to leave a little to much to chance, a little too messy.
I agree. If you really want them sounding tight I think you have to articulate them.
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  #13  
Old 11-04-2008, 12:41 PM
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Sardaukar Sardaukar is offline
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
True, ghost notes are not articulated. You do not directly use your muscles to make them, but instead rely on the rebound.
I think they should be clearly articulated. If you only rely on the rebound, it will sound like a "buzz" instead of a clean double stroke (or triple stroke or what ever). I use my fingers to snap that second note out of the 2 strokes. I think what he asked is how do you do a couple of ghost notes and then accent with the same hand. There's absolutely no way you can rely on rebound there.. And again, I'm not saying that ghosts should be played with your wrists, not using ANY rebound. What I am saying is that you really can hear the difference between 2 articulated ghost notes and 2 "buzz"-notes. When you really play that second stroke, it sounds really controlled and even. This is my opinion, and I think most of the professional drummers would agree with me. Just listen to Gavin Harrison's ghost notes, they sound so even and controlled, and that's because he uses his fingers to produce the accitional strokes after the first stroke.

let's take a rudiment example. How do you play a clean 6-stroke-roll just relying on rebound?
Try to play those ghost notes, yet don't force them. They are supposed to be quiet, but not messy. And that's very hard to achieve. No offence. Cheers!
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Old 11-04-2008, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

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Originally Posted by Sardaukar View Post
I think they should be clearly articulated. If you only rely on the rebound, it will sound like a "buzz" instead of a clean double stroke (or triple stroke or what ever). I use my fingers to snap that second note out of the 2 strokes. I think what he asked is how do you do a couple of ghost notes and then accent with the same hand. There's absolutely no way you can rely on rebound there.. And again, I'm not saying that ghosts should be played with your wrists, not using ANY rebound. What I am saying is that you really can hear the difference between 2 articulated ghost notes and 2 "buzz"-notes. When you really play that second stroke, it sounds really controlled and even. This is my opinion, and I think most of the professional drummers would agree with me. Just listen to Gavin Harrison's ghost notes, they sound so even and controlled, and that's because he uses his fingers to produce the accitional strokes after the first stroke.

let's take a rudiment example. How do you play a clean 6-stroke-roll just relying on rebound?
Try to play those ghost notes, yet don't force them. They are supposed to be quiet, but not messy. And that's very hard to achieve. No offence. Cheers!
I agree. Its all I can say. Controlled ghost notes.
Then you have to practice how to make an accent after and before a ghost.

like:

ghost - accent

accent - ghost

ghost - accent - ghost

My 2 cents.-
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  #15  
Old 11-04-2008, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

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Originally Posted by goblinz View Post
is there any way i can practise ghost notes on a pad? ....have any exercises which can help me develop fast doubles and triple ghost noting?
Practice your rudiments, exercises and snare solos with your sticks less than 1" above the head. When you can do them cleanly at a low volume, you're ready to try playing the accents at a much louder volume. For example, when you do a paradiddle, the accent will come up to 9" while every other note (stroke) stays below the 1" height. This is particularly good to do with flam rudiments, as the grace note of a flam should be below 1" in height anyways.

These are just exercises to do while at the pad to improve your capacity to play grace notes. When you actually go to play a beat, work on incorporating these heights, with the accented strokes being used on the beats and backbeats, and the 1" notes being used between beats.

Hope this helps!
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  #16  
Old 11-10-2008, 03:13 PM
ChuckSilverman ChuckSilverman is offline
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Default Re: Ghost Notes



this comes from a lesson at:

http://chucksilverman.com/memphisgroove.html#lesson

Bernard Purdie and Memphis Soul Stew, from King Curtis' Live at the Fillmore.

You have to listen to this recording!
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  #17  
Old 11-10-2008, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by caddywumpus View Post
Practice your rudiments, exercises and snare solos with your sticks less than 1" above the head. When you can do them cleanly at a low volume, you're ready to try playing the accents at a much louder volume. For example, when you do a paradiddle, the accent will come up to 9" while every other note (stroke) stays below the 1" height. This is particularly good to do with flam rudiments, as the grace note of a flam should be below 1" in height anyways.

These are just exercises to do while at the pad to improve your capacity to play grace notes. When you actually go to play a beat, work on incorporating these heights, with the accented strokes being used on the beats and backbeats, and the 1" notes being used between beats.

Hope this helps!
I would find it hard to measure the distance, while playing. Guess it totally depends on how you play. Some players need less height to get volume.
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Old 11-10-2008, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Ghost Notes

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Originally Posted by thiscocks View Post
I would find it hard to measure the distance, while playing. Guess it totally depends on how you play. Some players need less height to get volume.
If someone can get a loud volume from an ultra-low height, then my guess is that their stroke isn't relaxed and they're playing into the drum rather than off of it. This style of playing (which I was guilty of for about 4 years) lacks a certain level of depth in sound. You can get a full sound from a relaxed stroke. How you get this sound at a quiet level is by practicing using the same relaxed stroke you'd use at a louder dynamic at a lower height. It's simple, yet overlooked.

Students ask me if there's a short-cut to playing ghost strokes, and I tell them, "Yeah, but why play with different techniques at different sound levels?" I teach them to use different techniques to get different sounds, but to use them at all volumes so that all of the bases are covered.

Oh, and nice beat, Mr. Silverman. Very funky!
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