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  #1  
Old 10-26-2008, 07:07 PM
jldrumxp jldrumxp is offline
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Default double bass drum or pedal?

ok firstly i would like to say, i currently have a double bass pedal. i am looking to upgrade because i think my pedal isnt that good any more but then i also thought of expanding or getting a new kit. however i need advice on should i get a new double bass pedal and save some cash, or alternativly buy a comleate new kit(with double bass drum(S)) this has been a problem for a while because of tuning and general annoyance. however it would me awesome to finaly get the new kit, making what i play (Metal) alot more... forfilling. any way can you help???? i am currently running a pearl forums kit. upgrades two toms 10" and 18" dw double basspedal. 13" snare pearl vision. and a mix of sabain and zildjian cymbals. any advice??...
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2008, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

If you gig with a metal band on big stages, it looks cool to have 2 bassdrums. You have to tune them correctly (2 instead of 1) and you have to carry more stuff. If I had the money and space, I would buy a double bass kit.

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  #3  
Old 10-26-2008, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

I'd go with double bass. That's just me though.
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  #4  
Old 10-26-2008, 07:33 PM
jldrumxp jldrumxp is offline
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bram View Post
If you gig with a metal band on big stages, it looks cool to have 2 bassdrums. You have to tune them correctly (2 instead of 1) and you have to carry more stuff. If I had the money and space, I would buy a double bass kit.

Bram
well giging yeh. i ahve the money and space so double drum kit?
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2008, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

I debated this also. I like the visual impact of a double bass kit. But -

It means a larger footprint and another big drum to haul around. It means tuning two bass drums exactly the same and replacing another set of heads every time you switch.

The only reason for two drums that makes sense is rebound - you basically have twice the recovery time between strokes which some players say makes a difference at high speeds. I can't play fast enough for that to be an issue, so I wouldn't know. I've also seen some crazy fast players using a double pedal on one drum and it seems to work fine.

Some would also argue that shaft-driven slave pedals are inherently imperfect. But again, many professionals use them.

Drumming is not an entirely rational pursuit. It's an art and a passion. So you may as well get what you WANT because that's what will make you happy. There's no point living with a kit that isn't what you want, no matter how practical it is.
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  #6  
Old 10-26-2008, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

I'd say pedal save some money, don't have to haul as much, less tuning, and only one head when it breaks, maybe get an aquarian double bass impact pad?

just my two cents,
if money isn't an option i'd suggest a DW 9002 pedal, when i get a new pedal thats what itll be a bit pricey though but definately seems to be worth it
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  #7  
Old 10-26-2008, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

There are 3 additional instances where having a 2nd kick is a disadvantage:

1) When mic'd, the sound guy has to have an extra kick mic, and a spare channel on his board.

2) A 2nd kick makes hi-hat stand placement trickier than just working around a slave pedal.

3) The audience perception of 2 kicks is that some amazing footwork can be expected. If you can't use them well, the effect is decreased. But with one kick, and just decent footwork, the effect is heightened.

Actually, the only advantage/reason I can think of for having 2 (or more) kicks is to tune them differently as required for the music. Of course, in the case of classic double-bass rock drummers like Ginger Baker and Carmine who weren't playing melodic bass drums, there simply wasn't a viable double pedal in their heyday. Those drummers had to use 2 kicks and 2 pedals.

But... if you have the cash, the space in your practice area, extra space on stage (or the riser) when doing gigs, a way to transport the 2nd kick, a sound guy with 2 kick mics and a spare channel on the mixer, and you can play like you should have 2 kicks to begin with... then I don't want to kill your spirit.

I almost forgot - my real answer is: get the double pedal.

Bermuda
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  #8  
Old 10-26-2008, 10:35 PM
Bram Bram is offline
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jldrumxp View Post
well giging yeh. i ahve the money and space so double drum kit?
I don't say that you have to, but I (me, myself and I) would do that.

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  #9  
Old 10-30-2008, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

If you have the money to blow and don't mind having to spend a long time tuning the two bass drums to match each other and don't mind lugging two bass drums around to gigs, then go with the two bass drums.

now personally, I stick with single bass.

but if i was to go double, I'd just get a double pedal, because I'm almost broke, hate tuning drums, and already have more than enough stuff to carry up the three (!!!) flights of stairs that my local music venue has.
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  #10  
Old 10-31-2008, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

What pedal are you currently using?
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  #11  
Old 11-01-2008, 12:59 PM
jldrumxp jldrumxp is offline
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

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Originally Posted by drumguyfromWI View Post
If you have the money to blow and don't mind having to spend a long time tuning the two bass drums to match each other and don't mind lugging two bass drums around to gigs, then go with the two bass drums.

now personally, I stick with single bass.

but if i was to go double, I'd just get a double pedal, because I'm almost broke, hate tuning drums, and already have more than enough stuff to carry up the three (!!!) flights of stairs that my local music venue has.
yeah but what type of music do you play? because i drum metal i need the double bass so for you a single bass is fine unless you do the single bass slide teqneque. which sucks tbh. but yeah double bass. i need lol.
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  #12  
Old 11-01-2008, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorx View Post
What pedal are you currently using?
He mentioned that it's a DW but didn't say what model, that's what I'm curious about as well.
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  #13  
Old 11-01-2008, 03:10 PM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jldrumxp View Post
yeah but what type of music do you play? because i drum metal i need the double bass so for you a single bass is fine unless you do the single bass slide teqneque. which sucks tbh. but yeah double bass. i need lol.

Hmm.. I think I just heard the grandmaster Buddy Rich rolling over in his grave...
Hmm...so you are saying that Virgil Donati, Marco Minnemann, Bobby Jarzombek, Vinnie Coliauta and Thomas Lang's ULTRA fast and articulate double-pedal technique needs two kicks? Single kick technique? So, those guys suck and you rule? I just need to make sure your statement is clear.

EDIT: I wrote the top part after putting in over 90 hours this week. I just want to make sure that I am interpreting your post right and that metal can't be played on a single kick?

Last edited by trkdrmr; 11-02-2008 at 02:32 AM.
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  #14  
Old 11-01-2008, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

It depends on whether you are willing to spend all the extra money or not, when you can just buy a nicer double pedal. Also, its one more huge drum you have to move around whenever you have a gig or something.

Many people say the feel is much better with a double bass drum setup though, but idk.
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  #15  
Old 11-01-2008, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

If you have the money, unlike me, I'd go with the double bass drums. I've heard it's more comfortable to play as there is more rebound and it sounds better because there is a separate drum for each kick.
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  #16  
Old 11-02-2008, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

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Originally Posted by ThisSpitefulSnake View Post
If you have the money, unlike me, I'd go with the double bass drums. I've heard it's more comfortable to play as there is more rebound and it sounds better because there is a separate drum for each kick.
When I saw Virgil Donati, I was probably 15 feet away while he played. That cat has lightning feet in addition to brutal chops. On his single Pearl kick drum, everything he played was articulate. And he made it a point to set the metronome very high, and sustain a high speed, single-stroke beat. I heard everything very distinctively. I am sure there is a slight difference, but it didn't seem to matter. I can't imagine listening to anything that would be called "music" if it was played faster that Virgil was that day. He's a machine. The guys that play at umpteen BPM, tend to use a metal patch anyway so you hear a series of clicks or zero-resonance thumps, not any form of subtle or articulate tonality.

I guess what I am saying is, is that two kicks really aren't a necessity past visual purposes. They are a nicety I suppose, but since the Trick pedal is actually two full pedals, there is no drone pedal lag. It's pretty much like playing two pedals.
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  #17  
Old 11-02-2008, 02:41 AM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by konaboy View Post
He mentioned that it's a DW but didn't say what model, that's what I'm curious about as well.
Hmm im guessing a 4000
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2008, 02:53 AM
tybaker5150 tybaker5150 is offline
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

I recently (today) Purchased my first double bass pedal. Its a $200 Pearl that was marked 1/2 off over at Guitar Center. But, theres some good and bad things about the question.

For example; Double bass pedals are typically the cheapest, most room sufficent way to have a "double bass". But, If neither of those is an issue, then id have two bass drums. Ive heard that you get a better tone that way, because the drum is vibrating a lot less since your playing 8th notes on each drum instead of 16ths on the same drum. Plus, ive heard its more comfortable to play if your kit is set up that way.And, since theres 2 different drums for each kick, you can change the pitch So that the left bass is higher or lower than the right. Then use a double bass if you want the same pitch for a series of tripplettes or 16ths on the right or left bass (if your a lefty). It really just all depends on you. Dont try to model everyone else. Your never gonna sound like them. Sound like yourself.
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2008, 05:59 AM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

well i personally like having just a double bass pedal #1 they are cheaper and #2 u have to constantly tune the 2 bass drums so they sound the same or else they sound crappy
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  #20  
Old 11-02-2008, 07:54 AM
trkdrmr
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tybaker5150 View Post
I recently (today) Purchased my first double bass pedal. Its a $200 Pearl that was marked 1/2 off over at Guitar Center. But, theres some good and bad things about the question.

For example; Double bass pedals are typically the cheapest, most room sufficent way to have a "double bass". But, If neither of those is an issue, then id have two bass drums. Ive heard that you get a better tone that way, because the drum is vibrating a lot less since your playing 8th notes on each drum instead of 16ths on the same drum. Plus, ive heard its more comfortable to play if your kit is set up that way.And, since theres 2 different drums for each kick, you can change the pitch So that the left bass is higher or lower than the right. Then use a double bass if you want the same pitch for a series of tripplettes or 16ths on the right or left bass (if your a lefty). It really just all depends on you. Dont try to model everyone else. Your never gonna sound like them. Sound like yourself.
Well a counterpoint here. I have never, ever seen a deathmetal drummer concerned with "tone." (deathmetal/speedmetal all the high speed "metal" playing)The drums are damped, and set up for staccato notes, not sustain. Sustain would blur the effect of high speed playing anyway. So, tone is not an issue.

Second, a 2nd kick is never, ever more ergonomic or comfortable. It takes what could be a compact setup, and spreads it out, sometimes very uncomfortably so. There is jockying position of the hi hat as well so the stance isn't too wide.

And once again, I point to the example of Virgil Donati and Mike Mangini. I have heard them play ludicrously fast on one unmiked kick. Sounded almost insultingly clean and perfect in time. They made it look easy. If you can play faster and more articulately than those guys on two kicks, please post a video, WFD wants you.

If you like/want two kicks, go for it...it's what you want. However, to say they are necessary, I cannot agree with. I agree with all the disadvantages listed above.
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  #21  
Old 11-02-2008, 02:51 PM
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rmandelbaum rmandelbaum is offline
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

There are many opinions here on the pros and cons of 2 kicks vs. the double pedal.

But I truly feel this as anything else in drumming is a matter of personal choice.

I personally played double bass kits until 2000. I then went to a double pedal. When I was younger I played metal and prog rock so double bas made sense to me. As I have gotten older I am playing music that really does not require it very much. I do have two DW5000 double pedals but rarely take them to a gig. But again what I play doesn't call for it.

There is a different feel, go play a double bass kit and see if you like it or not. There is set up and space considerations. I know when I was young this never bothered me. There is transpiration considerations, if you have the room then again, no problem.


I guess what I am saying is do what is right for you and the music.

I will say this, you have a double pedal now. If you were to keep it and get a double bass drum kit and two single pedals you would have nothing but options
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  #22  
Old 11-02-2008, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jldrumxp View Post
yeah but what type of music do you play? because i drum metal i need the double bass so for you a single bass is fine unless you do the single bass slide teqneque. which sucks tbh. but yeah double bass. i need lol.
yeah. thats why I said, if you need double bass for the kind of music you play, go with a double pedal. It's a lot easier and cheaper.

and if you're really good at single bass, you don't need double bass. it is possible to play metal blast beats with a single pedal. that's why I stick to single bass in the hopes of improving my skills with it instead of messing around with double bass.

also, I open and close the hi-hat while playing it a lot, so I need to have a foot on the hi-hat pedal most of the time.
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  #23  
Old 11-03-2008, 05:36 AM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

Get the second bass and another double bass pedal. Set up double pedal #2 in lefty mode, giving you 2 kick pedals for each foot. Then tune the second kick differently from the first, and you've got tons of options! Heck, get a remote hi hat for your right foot so that each foot has three options!

Seriously, though, I've never seen a REAL need for a second kick. Seems like a lot of unnecessary work and not a lot of extra gain. The only real advantage is that it gives you license and location to add some toms and/or cymbals.

I've only known one cat who owned a double bass kit... even he only drug out one bass drum when he gigged.
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  #24  
Old 11-03-2008, 09:30 AM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

For years I played 2 kick drums. The double pedals (1st...weren't invented, and later, 2nd...were crap until they got refined). Once they got he "bugs" worked out, I switched. I'll never go back to 2 "mirror image" kicks. But if a cat thinks 2 kick drums feels better, that's fine. If a cat thinks 2 kick drums looks better, that's fine too. (after all, being in a band, on stage, is about being an entertainer as well as being a musician).
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  #25  
Old 11-04-2008, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

I own a double bass drum kit and I love the feel and I do know it sounds better than a single, but it is not necessary and there are many other problems that were already stated, such as tuning them together it is nearly impossible to do it and them to stay in that tuning for long, transportation, flat out they are a bitch to move, I hate moving them, but the up sides they look cool they get a better sound and like what was already stated you can get a double pedal and tune the other one differently for more options, but overall I like the feel of 2 bass drums and it allows me to set up my drums the way I like with out it all seeming off balance because I use a lot of toms, and I like the feel of 2 separate pedals because the slave pedal always seems to disrupt the balance with my left foot trying to correspond with my right because I like them to be equal and the slave always adds a delay that i have never known how to fix. In the end all preference and its purely up to the user, but just my perspective on the whole situation.

Last edited by Mystic; 11-07-2008 at 03:20 AM.
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  #26  
Old 11-07-2008, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

After reading a post by Bermuda, I e-mailed trick and asked them if there are any plans to make a beefier pedal beater for the pro-1v pedals. Either a heavier beater, approximating the weight of a pearl quadbeater, or some way of adding on weight rings a la iron cobra. I don't picture that I will be using the current trick beaters on my double pedal very much.

Also I have to comment: I don't have a roadie and really appreciate not lugging a second kick anymore.
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  #27  
Old 11-07-2008, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

Its easier to distinguish speed with two different bass drums.
One bass drum might make it sound like your getting locked up, and it will sound like crappy noise if you dont do it right.
But it does save money, room, time, and effort.
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  #28  
Old 11-08-2008, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLovesSabian View Post
Its easier to distinguish speed with two different bass drums.
One bass drum might make it sound like your getting locked up, and it will sound like crappy noise if you dont do it right.
But it does save money, room, time, and effort.
"might" being the operative word. Virgil Donati, Thomas Lang and Bobby Jarzombek (from a distance of 20 feet) sounded perfect on one kick. And they played singles/doubles *very* fast.
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  #29  
Old 11-08-2008, 01:09 AM
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LeeLovesSabian LeeLovesSabian is offline
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

not everybody plays like Virgil Donati, Thomas Lang and Bobby Jarzombek
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  #30  
Old 11-08-2008, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLovesSabian View Post
not everybody plays like Virgil Donati, Thomas Lang and Bobby Jarzombek
My point is: you'd have to to really consider how clean a single kick can sound north of 190 BPM.
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  #31  
Old 11-08-2008, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: double bass drum or pedal?

I prefer a doube bass for the look, as was mentioned earlier, I also don't play fast enough for rebound to be an issue.

IF you can afford it, Do both. this is what I do. When possible I use 2 bass drums with flying dragon pedals. BUT I also use a DW 7000 doube pedal on my other kits. So I use both. When miking is an issue, Or were recording a show I take the pedal off my 2nd bass and use the DW 7000 doube pedal set up on my double bass kit. So the second bass ends up being for show. but looks cool. And we only end up miking the main kick.

BUT, I prefer the stability and feel of 2 kicks.
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