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  #1  
Old 09-25-2008, 06:57 PM
Bassdrummer Bassdrummer is offline
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Default Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

I love the tone, I put a felt strip on both batter and reso heads on BD. Tone is more focus yet not muffled like putting a pillow in the BD. Only problem is when I hit my kick pedal the beater kinda does a little double stroke hit on the BD. So I tried moving the felt strip up closer to the top of the BD, same thing.

I tried adjust head tension, the issue still presists. Also change beater on on pedal, still does it. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 09-25-2008, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Play with proper technique and learn to let the beater rebound off the head.
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  #3  
Old 09-25-2008, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

If you're playing heel down, let the beater rebound. If you're playing heel up... well, you should be digging into it anyway, so you probably wouldn't have the problem at all.

I don't think this is caused by the felt strips. You just didn't notice it before, I suspect.
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Old 09-26-2008, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

I think the felt is playing a role. Now I may not always have perfect techinique, but I do not feel it is that simple. I also play a non-ported reso on another kit so I am somewhat use to that reaction if I bury the beater too much into the head. I really lay into it too, it doesn't happen everytime, very weird.
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Change your technique to suit. You'll be used to it in a week.
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  #6  
Old 09-26-2008, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

I have a remo P3 for the badder. I think I will thin out the felt to two inches and put it towards the bottom of the head versus the top ( kinda like to folded towel tech) and keep my technique in mind as well.
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  #7  
Old 09-27-2008, 08:18 AM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassdrummer View Post
I also play a non-ported reso on another kit so I am somewhat use to that reaction if I bury the beater too much into the head. I really lay into it too, it doesn't happen everytime, very weird.
A ported reso. will probably solve your problem. If you "had" a pillow in your kick before, you never had rebound because you never had air movement. Now, your kick is "wide open".
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  #8  
Old 09-28-2008, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassdrummer View Post
I think the felt is playing a role. Now I may not always have perfect techinique, but I do not feel it is that simple. I also play a non-ported reso on another kit so I am somewhat use to that reaction if I bury the beater too much into the head. I really lay into it too, it doesn't happen everytime, very weird.
What Harry said.

Plus: you might consider learning to not bury the beater. You'll get better sound and projection from the drum.
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  #9  
Old 09-28-2008, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumtechdad View Post
What Harry said.

Plus: you might consider learning to not bury the beater. You'll get better sound and projection from the drum.
What these 2 guys just said.... I had a similar problem some time ago. I have always had a pillow or something inside but when I started using Aquarian Super Kick heads there was no need to have anything in there. You will adjust.... it takes a little time..

I forgot to add... I have never had the habit of burying the beater. I see some people do it and sound wise... I wouldn't have known they were doing it if I didn't see them do it. Some people do it and it sounds bad. I was once told take a stick, hit a tom and press the stick into the head. Does it sound good? I think what you are experiancing is just like we say. You are most likley use to a solid feel and not use to the wide open feel. There is a big difference.

Last edited by wolfmoon; 09-28-2008 at 11:23 PM.
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  #10  
Old 09-29-2008, 03:52 AM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Are you using one of those modern, tiny plastic beaters? If so, there is the problem right there. I hate those things, they always have a strange feel and terrible thin sound. I prefer the classic round felt ones myself. My Mapex pedal has a three sided one and it has a strange weight to it and more bounce. I can't stand playing on kits where the bass is overmuffled or stuffed because there is no rebound it just sort of acts like a couch (anyone who has ever wacked a couch or a bed with a stick knows the sound and feel I'm talking about). My 22" bass drum has a EMAD2/EQ1 (which is OK, but not wonderful) and it's even bouncier. My 26" (talk about a different feel) has an EQ1/G1 with felt strips. Try one thing, change your beater. Also, try adjusting tension on the pedal (lowering it). Investing in a classic Speedking pedal is always a good option.
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  #11  
Old 09-29-2008, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassdrummer View Post
I think the felt is playing a role. Now I may not always have perfect techinique, but I do not feel it is that simple. I also play a non-ported reso on another kit so I am somewhat use to that reaction if I bury the beater too much into the head. I really lay into it too, it doesn't happen everytime, very weird.
Sounds like you tuned the heads a lot higher when you put them back on with the felt strips
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Old 09-29-2008, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Update:

BTW everyone thanks for your replys

I just want to clarify this is a ported reso on this drum

What I decided to do was use felt on the reso and the rolled up towel method between the pedal and badder. I messed with it for hours and decided to not use felt on the badder no to have anything affect the bearing edges and to get rid of the uneven head tension the felt strips cause. I tried all kinds of things different beaters, different positions and widths for the felt strips. The best result for me was to felt strip the reso and use the towel on the badder with nothing in the BD at all. The only reason I used the towel is because I had the BD mic'd for a gig over the weekend and there was to many overtones for that application IMO. The BD sounded good and punchy,the whole kit was a little Bohnamesque...very nice.

Moving ahead with my playing I will keep proper technique in mind....:)
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  #13  
Old 09-29-2008, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

alright before you go embarrassing yourself on other threads.....I'm not sure what a "badder" is, but the towel against either the batter or resonant side is a useful method as well (sometimes inside the drum too). Batter head, coming from the word battery, and to use a simpler reference a battering ram hits things, much like a baseball bat. Anyway what is it with people and thinking that John Bonham invented drum resonance and/or big shells. Drummers were using kits with drums even bigger decades before he was born. In the 1920's kick drums were 28" and wide open, even in the 1940s guys like Gene Krupa used a 28 or 26 inch kick with felt strips and/or the built in muffling pads they used to make on drums. I wish they still made those, because then no one would be having these problems. Technically, you can buy them and install them yourself. There's even the rim mounted kind that disappeared in the 60s. Buy one of those, might look a little "less ghetto" than flopping a towel out there...
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  #14  
Old 09-29-2008, 09:19 PM
EvanMatthiesen EvanMatthiesen is offline
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymbalrider View Post
alright before you go embarrassing yourself on other threads.....I'm not sure what a "badder" is, but the towel against either the batter or resonant side is a useful method as well (sometimes inside the drum too). Batter head, coming from the word battery, and to use a simpler reference a battering ram hits things, much like a baseball bat. Anyway what is it with people and thinking that John Bonham invented drum resonance and/or big shells. Drummers were using kits with drums even bigger decades before he was born. In the 1920's kick drums were 28" and wide open, even in the 1940s guys like Gene Krupa used a 28 or 26 inch kick with felt strips and/or the built in muffling pads they used to make on drums. I wish they still made those, because then no one would be having these problems. Technically, you can buy them and install them yourself. There's even the rim mounted kind that disappeared in the 60s. Buy one of those, might look a little "less ghetto" than flopping a towel out there...
hey, common dont be so hard on the guy. he barely mentioned bonham, and who cares if he did? plus i always thought it was called the batter side because thats (generally) the side of a drum which would have a batter coated head. i dont think hes embarrassing himself.
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  #15  
Old 09-30-2008, 12:01 AM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassdrummer View Post
I love the tone, I put a felt strip on both batter and reso heads on BD. Tone is more focus yet not muffled like putting a pillow in the BD. Only problem is when I hit my kick pedal the beater kinda does a little double stroke hit on the BD. So I tried moving the felt strip up closer to the top of the BD, same thing.

I tried adjust head tension, the issue still persists. Also change beater on on pedal, still does it. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
This is kinda long and for that I apologize, but I just want to make sure you understand my most likely inadequate way of explaining this. Be sure to refer to the two attachments for further clarification.

Well, here's an answer that worked for me and a few of my drumming friends that had the same problem when experimenting with "wide open" double headed bass drums. Bear in mind I don't even use felt strips!! The over-rebound was TREMENDOUS and sometimes got 3 or 4 bounces per played note!!

I had the problem you describe for QUITE a while after I livened up my kick drum. I KNEW that it would $UCK to start over and redo my entire bass drum technique just to pull the beater out of the head. So I stated thinking . . . it had to be the pedal. It just HAD to be!!
. . . Turned out . . . after a LOOOOOONG journey . . . I was RIGHT!!

SOoooooo, my search began for the perfect Kick Drum Pedal that would allow me to play how I wanted to play without my changing one bit! I was under the impression that the Machine should adapt to ME not that I should adapt to the machine!! And after many hundreds of dollars wasted on some mighty fine and high quality pedals (Ludwig, Sonor, DW "turbo as I didn't know yet" and a few others) I was almost at my wits end and the end of my pedal buying budget.

I FINALLY found out after all the money I spent and the years of time on trials of all that equipment that was NOT what I needed, that Tama's cheapest $40.00 (at the time) junky Belt Driven pedal played the best of ALL of them!! I was INCENSED that I hadn't checked the CHEAPEST pedals FIRST because I thought I was looking for QUALITY! It hadn't yet occurred to me that it wasn't the quality of the pedal that would cure my ills, and I couldn't understand WHY this junk pedal played effortlessly and didn't hang on the head when I was playing it. So I set out to learn WHY this pedal was so awesome and the expensive ones weren't and in the process I learned a little Geometry.

I found that there are two distinctly different kinds of "action" to a Kick Drum Pedal. (there are now more than that but for this discussion . . . )
I also found that this inexpensive pedal I was playing had what is called an "offset cam" operation, (see attachment DW ACCELERATOR and Tama IC Power Glide) not the "centered sprocket" (see attachment DW TURBO and Tama IC Rolling Glide) like all the other GREAT but completely WRONG pedals I had spent precious time and money on.

The way the drive chain moves in towards the axle on the forward motion of the stroke puts more spring tension into play and helps push your foot back after the rebound JUST enough to pull it off the head until YOU want to play the next note. (Yeah, there's a bit more to it than that, but that's the part that helps with curing your problem.)

I played that cheap pedal for quite a while and when it was time to get a more quality pedal I was now armed with a bit of knowledge that would make it much easier to decide what pedal would be right for me.

I ended up with an Iron Cobra Power Glide for my first great playing pedal, and now I own a DW 5000 Accelerator too, and BOTH play great!!

There are many companies that make pedals with the offset cam so you'll DEFINITELY find one you like or if you already have a quality pedal, maybe it would be more cost efficient to just replace the sprocket with an offset cam.

I hope this works for you, as it ended a long trial and error period for me, and best of all I DID NOT have to adjust my playing A BIT!! The new pedal just did the job with nothing but the usual minor adjustments for comfort to fit the pedal to me.

Good luck, and if you need more information on what the heck I'm talking about, just ask here or PM me.

PEACE!!

TL:DR
Offset Cam / Accelerator - Power Glide = Good
Centered Sprocket / Turbo - Rolling Glide = Bad
.
.
.

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  #16  
Old 09-30-2008, 12:05 AM
Bassdrummer Bassdrummer is offline
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Simballryder,

Well I'm sure glad you chimed in to correct my spelling. I am so worried what a bunch of strangers will think of me because in a haste is myspelled something;)..phew that was close!

Anyway thanks for the suggestion with that sweet and prolly expensive devise..

From now on I will not appear to be an a-hole to people because I will spell "batter" correctly and also know the history of the term (who needs wikipedia) and not only that I will not lool like a complete jackarse on stage because I use a tiny rolled up towel behind my footpedal (where nobody will see it anyway) if I get that cool contraption that looks like some midevil torture device.

SWEET!

Bonham Rulz!!!!

Who is this Gene Krupa? Did they even have drums in the 1920's? I though John Bonham invented drums?

Anyway thanks for your feedback!

Last edited by Bassdrummer; 09-30-2008 at 12:20 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-30-2008, 12:17 AM
Bassdrummer Bassdrummer is offline
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipercussionist View Post
This is kinda long and for that I apologize, but I just want to make sure you understand my most likely inadequate way of explaining this. Be sure to refer to the two attachments for further clarification.

Well, here's an answer that worked for me and a few of my drumming friends that had the same problem when experimenting with "wide open" double headed bass drums. Bear in mind I don't even use felt strips!! The over-rebound was TREMENDOUS and sometimes got 3 or 4 bounces per played note!!

I had the problem you describe for QUITE a while after I livened up my kick drum. I KNEW that it would $UCK to start over and redo my entire bass drum technique just to pull the beater out of the head. So I stated thinking . . . it had to be the pedal. It just HAD to be!!
. . . Turned out . . . after a LOOOOOONG journey . . . I was RIGHT!!

SOoooooo, my search began for the perfect Kick Drum Pedal that would allow me to play how I wanted to play without my changing one bit! I was under the impression that the Machine should adapt to ME not that I should adapt to the machine!! And after many hundreds of dollars wasted on some mighty fine and high quality pedals (Ludwig, Sonor, DW "turbo as I didn't know yet" and a few others) I was almost at my wits end and the end of my pedal buying budget.

I FINALLY found out after all the money I spent and the years of time on trials of all that equipment that was NOT what I needed, that Tama's cheapest $40.00 (at the time) junky Belt Driven pedal played the best of ALL of them!! I was INCENSED that I hadn't checked the CHEAPEST pedals FIRST because I thought I was looking for QUALITY! It hadn't yet occurred to me that it wasn't the quality of the pedal that would cure my ills, and I couldn't understand WHY this junk pedal played effortlessly and didn't hang on the head when I was playing it. So I set out to learn WHY this pedal was so awesome and the expensive ones weren't and in the process I learned a little Geometry.

I found that there are two distinctly different kinds of "action" to a Kick Drum Pedal. (there are now more than that but for this discussion . . . )
I also found that this inexpensive pedal I was playing had what is called an "offset cam" operation, (see attachment DW ACCELERATOR and Tama IC Power Glide) not the "centered sprocket" (see attachment DW TURBO and Tama IC Rolling Glide) like all the other GREAT but completely WRONG pedals I had spent precious time and money on.

The way the drive chain moves in towards the axle on the forward motion of the stroke puts more spring tension into play and helps push your foot back after the rebound JUST enough to pull it off the head until YOU want to play the next note. (Yeah, there's a bit more to it than that, but that's the part that helps with curing your problem.)

I played that cheap pedal for quite a while and when it was time to get a more quality pedal I was now armed with a bit of knowledge that would make it much easier to decide what pedal would be right for me.

I ended up with an Iron Cobra Power Glide for my first great playing pedal, and now I own a DW 5000 Accelerator too, and BOTH play great!!

There are many companies that make pedals with the offset cam so you'll DEFINITELY find one you like or if you already have a quality pedal, maybe it would be more cost efficient to just replace the sprocket with an offset cam.

I hope this works for you, as it ended a long trial and error period for me, and best of all I DID NOT have to adjust my playing A BIT!! The new pedal just did the job with nothing but the usual minor adjustments for comfort to fit the pedal to me.

Good luck, and if you need more information on what the heck I'm talking about, just ask here or PM me.

PEACE!!

TL:DR
Offset Cam / Accelerator - Power Glide = Good
Centered Sprocket / Turbo - Rolling Glide = Bad
.
.
.

__________________
Most respect the badge, but all fear the drum.
Viper,

Thanks for your detailed response! Funny you mentioned this. I was using a Pearl Eliminator and still switching stuff around trying to find the best feel and settings. For the fun of it I threw on this old Yammie chaindrive pedal and fell in love with it. It's a 50.00 special but you know what, it had less bouce and better response, much quicker with a lighter feel then the Elims. This just goes to show it's not about this type of gear or this expensive gadget or how cool you look as much as what works for you in order to get the desired playability and tone form your kit. I do know exactly what you are getting at! Like you I found a solution that worked and had the desired result via research and trial and error! Between the muffling techniques and the pedal I was able to solve my problem just in time to play my gig. Man that 24x18 baby Bonham BD really layed down some thunder:)
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  #18  
Old 09-30-2008, 03:39 AM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Hey, I was trying to be helpful, but clearly you guys just want to have bad attitudes and start an argument, so I apologize for the history and English lessons. As a classical percussionist, we are concerned about appearance and sound of a performance, so I thought you might like to look into something more professional and usable than a towel, although there is nothing wrong with being resourceful and using one (I even commend you for such a last-minute fix). I actually stated that in the last post, but it was clearly overlooked. Remo even sells one (yes, they market a towel) as the Dave Weckl bass drum muffling device. It basically is a towel with velcro that sits inside the drum against the head. As for the "a-hole" "jackarse" comments, those were completely uncalled for and not insinuated at all in my post. If you are trying to be successful in the music business, appearing professional is key, which includes grammar. I noticed you had misspelled it twice, and was simply trying to prevent further errors or future posts in other threads criticizing you. Again, I apologize, as I realize not everyone likes to be corrected or helped, and I meant no offense. For the record, I also said nothing bad about John Bonham either. I admire his insight to use the old style kits to achieve that big sound instead of going with the trends of the single headed, overly muffled, shallow drums of that era. By the way, he used a Speedking pedal too (referencing my first post).
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Old 09-30-2008, 03:52 AM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymbalrider View Post
Hey, I was trying to be helpful, but clearly you guys just want to have bad attitudes and start an argument, so I apologize for the history and English lessons. As a classical percussionist, we are concerned about appearance and sound of a performance, so I thought you might like to look into something more professional and usable than a towel, although there is nothing wrong with being resourceful and using one (I even commend you for such a last-minute fix). I actually stated that in the last post, but it was clearly overlooked. Remo even sells one (yes, they market a towel) as the Dave Weckl bass drum muffling device. It basically is a towel with velcro that sits inside the drum against the head. As for the "a-hole" "jackarse" comments, those were completely uncalled for and not insinuated at all in my post. If you are trying to be successful in the music business, appearing professional is key, which includes grammar. I noticed you had misspelled it twice, and was simply trying to prevent further errors or future posts in other threads criticizing you. Again, I apologize, as I realize not everyone likes to be corrected or helped, and I meant no offense. For the record, I also said nothing bad about John Bonham either. I admire his insight to use the old style kits to achieve that big sound instead of going with the trends of the single headed, overly muffled, shallow drums of that era. By the way, he used a Speedking pedal too (referencing my first post).
In trying to smooth over the bad feelings here I suggest a different approach.

MUFF BONE!!!


.
.
.

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  #20  
Old 10-01-2008, 06:49 PM
Bassdrummer Bassdrummer is offline
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymbalrider View Post
Hey, I was trying to be helpful, but clearly you guys just want to have bad attitudes and start an argument, so I apologize for the history and English lessons. As a classical percussionist, we are concerned about appearance and sound of a performance, so I thought you might like to look into something more professional and usable than a towel, although there is nothing wrong with being resourceful and using one (I even commend you for such a last-minute fix). I actually stated that in the last post, but it was clearly overlooked. Remo even sells one (yes, they market a towel) as the Dave Weckl bass drum muffling device. It basically is a towel with velcro that sits inside the drum against the head. As for the "a-hole" "jackarse" comments, those were completely uncalled for and not insinuated at all in my post. If you are trying to be successful in the music business, appearing professional is key, which includes grammar. I noticed you had misspelled it twice, and was simply trying to prevent further errors or future posts in other threads criticizing you. Again, I apologize, as I realize not everyone likes to be corrected or helped, and I meant no offense. For the record, I also said nothing bad about John Bonham either. I admire his insight to use the old style kits to achieve that big sound instead of going with the trends of the single headed, overly muffled, shallow drums of that era. By the way, he used a Speedking pedal too (referencing my first post).
Yes I was obviously rubbed the wrong way by your post. We often have to remember in a forum such as this the written word does not always come across as intended. You came off a little abrasive IMO. But going back and reading everything I can see your intentions and maybe they were not intended to be that way. I am just a weekend warrior. I have a career so this is just a hobby. In a haste I don't always use correct grammar... BTW I never directed those comments at you. When you say things look "ghetto" and insinuate I am embarrassing myself then give me a history lesson, can you see where maybe I and others could have felt your comments were condescending? Anyway thanks for clarifying, water under the bridge!

BTW it's a Speed King pedal, not Speedking;)

Last edited by Bassdrummer; 10-01-2008 at 11:46 PM.
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  #21  
Old 10-08-2008, 05:09 AM
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Default Re: Felt strips to muffle BD sounds great..now beater is too bouncy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymbalrider View Post
Hey, I was trying to be helpful, but clearly you guys just want to have bad attitudes and start an argument, so I apologize for the history and English lessons. As a classical percussionist, we are concerned about appearance and sound of a performance, so I thought you might like to look into something more professional and usable than a towel, although there is nothing wrong with being resourceful and using one (I even commend you for such a last-minute fix). I actually stated that in the last post, but it was clearly overlooked. Remo even sells one (yes, they market a towel) as the Dave Weckl bass drum muffling device. It basically is a towel with velcro that sits inside the drum against the head. As for the "a-hole" "jackarse" comments, those were completely uncalled for and not insinuated at all in my post. If you are trying to be successful in the music business, appearing professional is key, which includes grammar. I noticed you had misspelled it twice, and was simply trying to prevent further errors or future posts in other threads criticizing you. Again, I apologize, as I realize not everyone likes to be corrected or helped, and I meant no offense. For the record, I also said nothing bad about John Bonham either. I admire his insight to use the old style kits to achieve that big sound instead of going with the trends of the single headed, overly muffled, shallow drums of that era. By the way, he used a Speedking pedal too (referencing my first post).
lol...:/..........................
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