Dave Weckl

[LinearDrummer]

Originally Posted by tdrums91

everything he taught in the lesson was from his how to develop technique video so i would suggest evryone pick that up... most of the lesson u just sit there speechless, it really gave me motivation to practice my ass off

Thats funny cause the early Weckl inspires me to practice but this post-Gruber "time is motion" Weckl makes me depressed...Hes raised the bar to a level that I can never achieve...

My perfect Weckl lesson would be to fire up my Camcorder and just tape him for a half an hour and watch him do his thing.....LOL...

[cymbals~FEAR~me]

Hey, I was curious if anyone knows what Dave's cymbals were while he used Zildjian, before the switch to Sabian. Does anyone have a clue? Thanks.

Cheers


P.S. Weckl's a huge inspiration and cause for me to practice too.

[toteman2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HFXn...h=dave%20weckl


One of the very best solo's I've ever sceen in my life. The man is amazing.

[dawg]

weckl is one of the best drummers in the world.period.anyone who disagrees just does not know or appreciate drumming. as for his feel,i've heard some of the opinions voiced before negative towards his playing,but to my ears his time is just about as perfect as humanly possible.one of my top 5 favorites,for sure.he can play any style he chooses and is great at all of em'.

[finnhiggins]

Originally Posted by dawg

weckl is one of the best drummers in the world.period.anyone who disagrees just does not know or appreciate drumming.

That, of course, depends on how you quantify "best". Technically adept? Sure. But if you asked me to hire a guy off of the list of drummers on the Drummerworld front page I doubt it'd be Weckl for... well... anything!

It's all personal taste, and I just plain find his stuff a bit on the dull side. It's great for five minutes of technical amazement now and again, but I'd find obsessing over it very depressing and the kind of thing that would probably suck all the joy out of playing the drums for me. Not because what he's doing is hard, just because I don't find any of it exciting in any meaningful musical way.

[dawg]

and what solos do you find inspiring,then? for me,the same reason i like weckl's technical superior drumming is the same reason i like colaiuta's. dennis chambers is great in his own funky way,with speed.to me bill stewart and,jack de johnette have different but similar styles in the trad jazz idiom. elvin's mastery of 3/4 and triplets. maybe rock is your thing.

[finnhiggins]

Originally Posted by dawg

and what solos do you find inspiring,then?

Wow, that's a loaded question. Since when was drumming about soloing, and all knowledge of drumming assessed on that basis? I'm actually not a big fan of solos across the board, because since drummers have very little note sustain or tone control after the initial impact most drum solos seem to degenerate into mindless chopping. As an instrument I'd be hard pressed to think of one less suited to expressive solo playing than the drumset.

But that said, if I had to pick soloists I'd be pointing the way of people like Joey Baron or Tony Williams who manage to overcome the technical limitations and actually say something.

for me,the same reason i like weckl's technical superior drumming is the same reason i like colaiuta's. dennis chambers is great in his own funky way,with speed.to me bill stewart and,jack de johnette have different but similar styles in the trad jazz idiom. elvin's mastery of 3/4 and triplets. maybe rock is your thing.

Not really. I just think that soloing is a lousy measure of a drummer, and technique a worse one.

For a better understanding of how technique and art intersect, take a look at the filmmaking world. There the technical side is quite clearly technical - it's all about colour grading, different kinds of stock, camera moves, different approaches to lighting, CG and compositing, etc etc off into eternity. But then you look at the most technically impressive, big-budget movies and compare their content with what's being done on a fraction of the budget by people with good ideas. There's no law that says that working on a huge budget automatically means you have to have no ideas and produce derivative but spectacle-laden junk - there's enough exceptions to show that artistically valid big-budget filmmaking is viable. But on the other hand, the presence of a lot of expensive technique and equipment clearly doesn't render a film any good, either.

Art (=music) and technique (=mechanics to achieve something) have little relationship. The first is notoriously subjective, the latter very objective.

On the latter, objective measure then Weckl is clearly very strong. On the former I absolutely cannot stand a single thing he's done that I've yet encountered. That's clearly down to me, but labling people who don't view Weckl as one of the "best" drummers as ignorant or ill-informed is just silly.

Weckl's instructional videos are very good though, I'll add. I'd include his play-alongs if they weren't so musically apalling, the idea is excellent. But I refuse to give any student the impression that being a good drummer requires you to listen to that kind of stuff...

[BrynnerAgassi]

Dave will non the less go down in history as being one of the greatest drummers ever known! I think he is pretty much one of the hardest drummers to duplicate. What he has is a gift that all drummers have, and thats the gift to creat art out of music, but Weckl takes this to another level. He was one of my biggest insperations and still is, but as i got older his techniques were just tooooo unreal and so i shifted my focus on finding my own techniques and sound. He is a legand.

[dawg]

couldn't have said it better! some things as a drummer you can appreciate because you play the instrument and have maybe a working knowledge of his style of playing. then some guys you just tip your hat and say i wish i had those chops. but aside from dave being a solist,he does keep excellent time when supporting a band and i love the stuff he does with latin music.he plays that way because he can.

[drumma]

Originally Posted by dawg

weckl is one of the best drummers in the world.period.anyone who disagrees just does not know or appreciate drumming. as for his feel,i've heard some of the opinions voiced before negative towards his playing,but to my ears his time is just about as perfect as humanly possible.one of my top 5 favorites,for sure.he can play any style he chooses and is great at all of em'.

I'm with you man, people put him down because they can't play as well as him. As far as having no feel, I think Dave has so much feel it's rediculous! I allways hear that he is to perfect and because of it he has no feel, I guess you have to be sloppy to have feel, whatever.

[finnhiggins]

Originally Posted by drumma

I'm with you man, people put him down because they can't play as well as him.

Yeah, just like all those jealous musicians who put down the Spice Girls and Brittney Spears because they're more successful!

Seriously, do you people actually think about your arguments before you post them? Surely if somebody was going to be jealous of Weckl because he's better than them they'd also be jealous of everybody else listed on DW? Unless you're suggesting that this jealousy is restricted to people who're better than, say, Max Roach and Joey Baron but not as good as Dave Weckl, which is even more silly.

I can't play as well as Joey Baron or Matt Chamberlain - or Max Roach - but you'll never see me doing anything other than singing their praises because I like what they do. I don't like Weckl's playing because it bores me stiff. If I had to pick the most boring gigs I've ever been to they'd probably be:

a) some Japanese avant-garde guitarist whose name I forget at the moment who played one note for 30 minutes straight; and
b) the Dave Weckl band at Ronnie Scott's in London.

So if I fail to aspire to play like Weckl it's not because he's better than me and I'm envious, it's just because I find everything he does rather dull and uninspired. You see?

[Blue]

He's just so pleasant to listent to. Every sound he gets out of every drum and system... it just feels good just to listen to. But, he never really lets go and just goes nuts. I'm impressed by what he can play, but he doesn't drive it home emotionally for me a lot of the time, like, for instance, Brian Blade, who made literally cry when I saw him live. It's groovy as hell though (Dave). I still listen to him, actually, more and more lately, and I love it, and some of his fills are GENIOUS! I guess I just wish he would go nuts sometimes...

I disagree wholeheartedly...people do not put him down because they can't play like him. It's probably because they don't feel what he's playing. It's pretty simple. That's subjective and personal, but is the most important from a subjective listening standpoint as far as I'm concerned. It depends on what kind of drum playing fits you're personality and appeals to you emotionally. Obviously, Dave's playing doesn't appeal to certain people emotionally, including me in some respects, but I still respect the bejesus out of him for his ability to the drums.

[tdrums91]

Originally Posted by Blue

He's just so pleasant to listent to.

Thats just the way I see it. I really think you have to enjoy his playing but also the music as well. I personally think every note he plays couldn't be any more perfect and also think that it fits the music exactly the way it should. What I like about it is that it's pleasant to listen to but at the same time pumps me up and motivates me to want to play

[MarkyMark9000]

Hi there, I just joined this forum and felt compelled to post something up on the Vinnie Thread. And Guess what, I just love Weckl.

When I first heard him play (think it was the Akoustic band recording first), I loved what I thought was his fresh approach.

I am a particular fan of him playing with the GRP big band (and of course have the Weckl, Gadd & Colaiuta video - Buddy Rich Memorial tape 2).

I met Dave at Ronnie Scotts in London the other year. Nice guy, took a lot of time to have his pic taken. Am glad to say that I'm slightly taller than he is, but that's the only thing I've got on him ;-)

Seriously, I have lots of differnt recordings with him on. I particularly liked him with Michel Camillo.

he is simply a fabulous Drummer !

The thread seems to be getting into a deba te about technique. Technique to me is all about a means to an end. Technique can influence a playing style so people CAN say that "....his (or her) solo was a bit technical" - but maybe what they recognise if that drummer having good techique.

I know Weckl has been criticised in the past about his "technical approach" (note the quotation marks). So much so I actually felt compelled to write to the publication in his defense, and they actually printed it. To the unknowing Weckl may sound "technical", but I've been listening to him for years and just hear some of the most musical drumming I've ever heard.

[LinearDrummer]

Originally Posted by DogBreath

Here are some clips of Dave that I got at Sabian Live in January. The one linked here is the longest at over four minutes, and there are links on the page to three other clips as well. This one is the best, though, with some very nice grooves, a tight solo, and a jamming finale. There is simply no way to watch this guy play live and not appreciate both his technical ability and his feel for the groove. He is an amazingly well rounded drummer.

I never noticed this link - I thought it was for pictures before so thanks for the hook-up....

And your right how can you not appreciate both his technicality and incredible groove...
The man is on top of his game - period!

Originally Posted by finnhiggins

Stunning, but simultaneously underwhelming. How do you communicate that?

I agree with your assessment. I was listening to Chick Corea (accoustic band) Live! (from 1991) and the drumming is stunning and virtuostic yet completely out of place in a 3 man jazz combo. I hadn't listened to this cd in probably 10 years, and I used to be amazed out how 'great' of a jazz drummer Weckl is. But 10 years later, it sounds the same as the stuff he plays today. I also have a much healthier dose of 40-60s jazz for comparison, and have to say that I just don't get the forward thinking big rock sound of Weckl on Live!

[HardcoreLogo]

Poor Dave gets alot of flack, but I can see everyones point for sure. It's kinda like Neal Peart, you gotta admit he's a great drummer, but sometimes seems a little too "Cut and Paste" with regards to the drum parts. I listen to many drummers for many reasons, and I love Dave and his playing, but for what it is.

[simonsweb]

Year - off course i like Dave Weckl. Hes technike is amazing, but i think the problem with mr. weckel is that olmost every bands his play with - He's the man you see (if you understand)

[Melvin]

Originally Posted by Anchein Vouivra

I'm not really in, and don't dig this "Weckle-Colaiuta-Gadd-Chambers-Steve Smith..." drumming pantheon. They're are too glorified and used by their endorsements as THE DRUM REFERENCE. Too technical and they are all playing fusion which make feel each one sound more and more similar. But it's like always very personal, it's just music that doesn't move me (maybe at the exception of Gadd).

Weckl doesn't play fusion, he plays contemporary jazz. Weckl, Colaiuta, Gadd, Chambers, Smith are all very diferent. You just have to listen to them for a while and then talk. These are great drummers and they have exelent technique and grooves.

Watch the best so you can learn from them.

[shersch]

I will concede that Weckl plays modern jazz [i.e. Chick Corea], but I disagree that he is a modern jazz drummer. His style is very much predicated upon principles of fusion, in my opinion.

I do, however, snicker at drummers knocking his lack of mistakes.

The dude is a metronome! If making mistakes floats your boat, then [by all means], go listen to some cheap quazi-punk. I'm going to stick with the guys who have flawless technique and inventive, if not artistic, methods: Dave Weckl, Manu Katche, etc.

Though I am a proponent of smaller kits, I also like his sound much more than that of drummers in the Steve Gadd vein of things.

I have to disagree with many of the statements posted and argue that Dave is one of the best drummers alive. While his style can become static, it: serves the music well, doesn't put odd things in odd places, is based around expanding the art of drumming, and [if nothing else] is practically a model of perfection for modern fusion percussion.

[kornslipknot]

I have some lesson vids which i got of limewire of Dave Weckel. They are pretty good, some of them take you back to basics and there is some great advice in there. If you dont have them, get them because they are good value.

[sshu]

My $0.02. Dave Weckl is an awesome drummer. One of my favorites. After listening to him for many years (but never seeing him live), it was great to see him live in a clinic. I wrote up a review here ... http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthre...ighlight=weckl

Having tried to pick up traditional grip unsuccessfully for many years (probably like 15+ years), the insights on ergonomics he provided at the clinic finally got me over a hump.

I'll always remember that clinic. His playing and drums sounded awesome.

Steve

[geek_boy_in]

Originally Posted by finnhiggins

a) some Japanese avant-garde guitarist whose name I forget at the moment who played one note for 30 minutes straight; and

hahahahaha ... dude please get the name ... i so much want to hear that thing.

[DeepSnowWalker]

Dave Weckl would be my number one choice. I just recently got back into drums after a 30 year break and looked into this site thoroughly and decided to go with all Dave weckl's dvd's and lessons along with Portnoy and minneman and Jack bennett. Dave's dvd's span a number of years and styles as near as I can tell and he is constantly progressing. I dare say he could play any type of music. That being said I have learned from absolutely everyone on this site. Dave switches back and forth at times from traditional grip and matched grip when it is better to do so which makes perfect sense to me being almost exclusively traditional from way back to my drum teacher who was originally a drum and bugle core lad turned rock. I'm no expert and everyone has their own style but Dave just keeps getting better. He's starting to flow nicely and he's still young.

[DeepSnowWalker]

Dave Weckl would be my number one choice. I just recently got back into drums after a 30 year break and looked into this site thoroughly and decided to go with all Dave weckl's dvd's and lessons along with Portnoy and minneman and Jack bennett. Dave's dvd's span a number of years and styles as near as I can tell and he is constantly progressing. I dare say he could play any type of music. That being said I have learned from absolutely everyone on this site. Dave switches back and forth at times from traditional grip and matched grip when it is better to do so which makes perfect sense to me being almost exclusively traditional from way back to my drum teacher who was originally a drum and bugle core lad turned rock. I'm no expert and everyone has their own style but Dave just keeps getting better. He's starting to flow nicely and he's still young.

[geek_boy_in]

Correct. I totally agree.. .

Atleast even if one do not understand what Weckl is doing or maybe even if your musical perception is different to what Weckl is playing .... You have to have respect for the tenacity of this guy and his constant journey of improvement and trying to find the optimal.

Like any true academician and researcher .. this guy does not rest on his laurels..... on the other hand I can name atlast 20 "famous" drummers whose playing and comments reflect the "I have seen it all, am successful and best, I do not need any improvements anymore and my musical genre/style is the best" attitude.
( to the uninitiated am also talking about versatility here .... )

[Ian Ballard]

Dave is a phenominal technician and has really developed a beautiful feel, unfortunately most of the music he plays is bordering on elevator jazz. It just seem he (and Jay Oliver) tend to compose music for a cool drum part, as opposed to composing a drum part for cool music.

[KzSgDrummer]

^ Bingo. I consider maybe 3 tracks on any of his CDs to be worth giving a second, or 50th listening. I love drumming, but I like drums that go to a song, not the other way around. And of course I respect his mastery of the drums, but there's still something about his playing that doesn't sit right in me.

[Ian Ballard]

Originally Posted by KzSgDrummer

^ Bingo. I consider maybe 3 tracks on any of his CDs to be worth giving a second, or 50th listening. I love drumming, but I like drums that go to a song, not the other way around. And of course I respect his mastery of the drums, but there's still something about his playing that doesn't sit right in me.

I do also make something clear. I do think using the drums as a compositional tool, even the main one, is fine and in fact I do it all the time with my "band". However, it seems like he's appealing to a "song oriented" and probably baby-boomer age jazz fan (adult contemporary?) as opposed to the really hard-core jazz fan. The drumming is insanely beautiful in a field of badly sampled synthesizers and cheesey alto sax playing.

I think if Dave ventured off like Vinnie and did some crazy Fusion Rock like "Thanks To Frank " with Warren Cuccurullo or did a Megadeth album (Slayer?), or formed a fusion-y underground rock band or something.

I just can't do the adult contemporary, guys!

[JayAlsman]

Could anyone please tell me which video shows Dave playing a yellow 4 piece Yamaha Hip-Gig kit. I've seen this once before, and I'm having trouble finding this video again. Thanks!!

[geek_boy_in]

after listening to a couple of criticism by some members here i really did an introspect and went through my Dave Weckl collection again ( it has been quite long i heard them ... mostly now a days i listen to west african bands like bembeya jazz , super rail road band etc) ......

but man ..... did it sound good !!!!! i was listening to "Dave Weckl Band Live and very plugged in" .......for example the number Rhythm-A-Ning !!! ... it had soul... and swings really hard !!!!!!!! somehow I found a great similarity in his chops with Trilok Gurtu's ......anyone else find it similar ??? also in "Mesmer Eyes" i found Gurtu like ambience and groove....
and "Hesitation" was too funky and the feel was so funny ..... it breaks midway leaving you somewhere up and hanging ....... almost falling of the cliff kind of feel
anyways ... i conclude that the ones who are telling Weckl doesn't have feel, is too mechanical is either lying or plain wrong.
also leave apart Dave Weckl band ........ Corea, George benson, simon&garfunkel, Diana Ross, Michel Camilo, Patitucci, .... natalie cole/ madonna's producers are not really so illiterate to take a machine right ???


in some numbers his playing is so tricky ( tricky cause... after all this dude has only 4 limbs like all of us) that it may seem to be aparently too overwhelming....... unreachable .... never-achievable ... OverPlaying ........but then why don't you leave those numbers and listen to the good feel ones ??? also i would suggest don't listen to the entire album at one go...... so much work is there it really becomes an overdose resulting in boredom to a Critical examining mind ......... but on the other hand suddenly if you listen to one Weckl number after so many other genres that you hear .... it sounds really good !!


but anyways .. for the last one year am going through a very earthy, belonging to soil and nature phase of mood .... so back to my Bembeya jazz and Oliver Mtukudzi :)

also can someone point me to good online /offline resources in english related to rhythms from Mali, Zimbabwe, Guinea etc like Shona Mbira, Mandinga etc .... I don't want to leave my family and go to africa :(

[geek_boy_in]

Originally Posted by JayAlsman

Could anyone please tell me which video shows Dave playing a yellow 4 piece Yamaha Hip-Gig kit. I've seen this once before, and I'm having trouble finding this video again. Thanks!!

I think you are talking about the instructional DVD A natural Evolution - How to develop Technique ... its there at 16:30 and couple of times after that .......... in that same video he also used other kits besides Hip-Gig.

[LinearDrummer]

Originally Posted by Ian Ballard

It just seem he (and Jay Oliver) tend to compose music for a cool drum part, as opposed to composing a drum part for cool music.

I agree with that but thats what they were trying to do - put him on the map as a soloist...
He said it himself..

To me after the first 2 cds once it became the Dave Weckl Band it became much more musical...of course hes featured alot cause its HIS band but I do think the songs and musicianship between band members was much more cohesive.....but thats just me....

Originally Posted by geek_boy_in

anyways ... i conclude that the ones who are telling Weckl doesn't have feel, is too mechanical is either lying or plain wrong.

Man you just can't please everybody....too technical, too mechanical, not musical blah blah blah...its actuall pretty comical reading these posts...everybody has their OWN grading system on what they define as good drumming...

All I know is every show I've seen him play at everybody sure is paying attention to his every move...not bad for someone thats cheesy and non-musical huh :-)

[tdrums91]

I personally think that the majority of people who criticize daves playing don't have the "ear" for that kind of music. I think the music is wonderfully put together and dave's playing fits it beautifully.. It's funny because everytime I play his music to one of my friends who listens to only one type of music (mainly rock) they all describe it as elevator music. They don't understand more complicated music and hear it completely different from the way I do. ((Just an opinion))

[DHW200]

Dave Weckl plays a niche appeal genre. He plays fusion, but its more sophisticated and more "musicians music" than other types of fusion. Anybody who has seen his band live or has their live album knows what I'm talking about.

Dave has amazing chops and technique, yet a very free flowing style. He plays technically, yet he plays musically at the same time, wrapping wonderfully around the rest of his phenomenal band. And he is constantly improving. Years, ago, before he started taking lessons with Freddie Gruber, his playing was fine. I mean it was very good, but it wasnt spectacular. Gruber turned Weckl around, and turned him into a true master. Now his style is very loose, very natural (hence a Natural Evolution).

Dave Weckl has been my favorite drummer ever since I disovered him, and is by far and away my biggest influence and role model as a musician (not that i have even the slightest chance of becoming as good as he is)

[dawg]

aside from preferences(pro and con) about weckl playing people saying he's too mechanical,too technical,"elevator music,"etc., the ONE thing no one can say is he's "sloppy."

[gf2564]

Weckl, Steve Smith and Danny Seraphine are all bringing their repective bands to the Hilton Ballroom on September 18th in Harrisburg Pa. It should be a great night of drumming and music. I am making the trip from down south to see them. I am really looking forward to it.

[Ian Ballard]

I take back anything negative I've ever said about Dave, soley because of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz3VL6d7nMk

[geek_boy_in]

Originally Posted by Ian Ballard

I take back anything negative I've ever said about Dave, soley because of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz3VL6d7nMk

???? what did you find in that 1and 1/2 min jam ..... do explain cause to me it seemed mindless rambling :( ?? I found the montreux jazz jams with Corea in youtube to be much more tricky and interesting ....

[onur_kusadasi]

My favorite drummers are
Mike Portnoy
Nick Menza (I couldn't him on site)
Dave Weckl

mike portnoy: pro-academic drummer, very complex drumming (easy to learn)
Nick Menza : truly the best
Dave Weckl: let's make samba man :D, his teaching videos are very good.