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  #1  
Old 07-20-2008, 08:18 AM
otway otway is offline
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Default ec2 Drum Head Problem

Hey guys/girls,
As the title says, i'm having some trouble with my 12'' evans ec2 drum head.
The drum sounds dead no matter what, unless i tune it really obnoxiously high and i think i found out why.... It seems that part of the head flaps, its a bit hard to explain by typing, but you know how when you have the head loose you see wrinkles all around until you add tension? Well at the edge there is a small area that doesn't seem to stop flapping unless it is obnoxiously tight and i believe that this is what is making the tone die and sound papery and flappy, however what worries me is that i don't think i have ever seen something like this with a new drum head (and the ec2's are supposed to be great).

If you are wondering what drums I am using the heads on it is the sonor force 3007 (maple).

So I was wondering if this sounds like a reasonable and common thing to happen to a drum head and if this had happened to anyone else.?
And also if anyone has had troubles with the ec2's because it sounds good on my other toms besides the 12'' so i was wondering if to move away from the ec2 line.
Oh and any advice is encouraged! and appreciated!

Thanks so much for the help as usual.
Nick
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  #2  
Old 07-20-2008, 09:03 AM
Celereon Celereon is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

I think it might be a problem with the head itself. If a part of the head is looser than the rest, it sounds like either your drum/hoop is out of round (doubtful, Sonor 3007s are good kits) or the head is out. I suppose you could go measure the head if you wanted, make sure it's perfectly round, but I don't know if that would achieve anything.

Maybe someone who knows a bit more than I do can come add some advice? :P

Oh and I have had a 14" EC2 before and it's never given me any problems.
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  #3  
Old 07-20-2008, 12:20 PM
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wolfmoon wolfmoon is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Switch to Aquarian. That will solve your problems..
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  #4  
Old 07-20-2008, 12:23 PM
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tbmills tbmills is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

i play ec2s on my pacific kit and i havent had any problems like that. if i were you i would check the drum/hoops for round and if thats good check with evans about getting a replacement.

also try rotating the head on the drum if the wrinkle is on the same spot on the head then that may be your problem. a faulty head.
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  #5  
Old 07-20-2008, 01:11 PM
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Jeff Almeyda Jeff Almeyda is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Check the bearing edges and roundness of the drum.
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  #6  
Old 07-20-2008, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Do you have another 12" head to try on that drum? Make sure the bearing edge is OK.

Did you tension the head correctly? Maybe a bad head is my guess??
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  #7  
Old 07-20-2008, 05:58 PM
otway otway is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Thanks guys.
Now i just need to make a trip down to my band room.
I really hope the problem is with the skin. I have always LOVED sonor and the kit is about 4 months old.. so.... any way.. i'll update you guys on what the problem is..

More advice/recommendations are welcomed.

thanks again.
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  #8  
Old 07-21-2008, 01:13 AM
Tylerdrums109 Tylerdrums109 is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Maybe u are just tuning the head lower than it should be?...from what i understood these heads were created to have large tuning ranges and to not choke at higher tunings even though they are muffled heads...it could just be the way u are tuning it....but it could also be issues with the drum or the actual drum head itself like the others head...i might be wrong in saying tuning could be the issue but i cant tell how u tune your kit
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  #9  
Old 07-21-2008, 07:03 AM
otway otway is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylerdrums109 View Post
Maybe u are just tuning the head lower than it should be?...from what i understood these heads were created to have large tuning ranges and to not choke at higher tunings even though they are muffled heads...it could just be the way u are tuning it....but it could also be issues with the drum or the actual drum head itself like the others head...i might be wrong in saying tuning could be the issue but i cant tell how u tune your kit
He dude.. thanks allot for the advice. I tune in the higher range (rather than lower, like allot of people like it) and at relatively high tuning it was sounding horrible and that one area was still slack, the only time it was gone (the deadness/rattle) was when it was ridiculously high..
as soon as i get a chance i will check to see if the problem is with the shell, rim or the head itself..
Thanks again
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  #10  
Old 07-21-2008, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by otway View Post
He dude.. thanks allot for the advice. I tune in the higher range (rather than lower, like allot of people like it) and at relatively high tuning it was sounding horrible and that one area was still slack, the only time it was gone (the deadness/rattle) was when it was ridiculously high..
as soon as i get a chance i will check to see if the problem is with the shell, rim or the head itself..
Thanks again
Hmm. Lay the head down on a flat surface and see if the collar is flat. If it is, try doing the same with the hoop.

If sounds for all the world like you had the head on unevenly (i.e., lower on one side than the other). Either that or a defective head. In either case you need a new one.
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  #11  
Old 07-21-2008, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

i had the same problem...i had to tune it really high to get a decent sound from them....now i use G2's...and they sound really good..

Alex
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  #12  
Old 07-22-2008, 04:08 AM
otway otway is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Some great advice.. thanks allot drumtechdad.
Now i need some more advice.. i just checked EVERYTHING advised. I measured the rim, drum head collar and drum shell and they all seem to be even all around but when it came to the laying them down on flat surfaces to see if they rocked i think i got a bit paranoid.. the drum head was rocking a bit and so was one of the rims but a VERY tiny bit.. almost everything rocked a tiny tiny bit but the ec2 and one rim rocked a little little bit more than the others.. i'm wondering if im being paranoid because they are rocking VERY sightly, so what i wanted to find out is:
is any rocking at allll (when drum rim or head is on a flat surface) bad or does it have to be a bit obvious?
Any way i came to my own conclusion (i think). The ec2 has some imperfections towards the edges (when tuned on the drum), like its not tight all around.. between where the metal ring is inside of the drum head and the shell itself has some crackeling areas (this is soooo hard to explain, WOW).. Ugghh its hard to explain.. i wonder if anyone understands..

Thanks
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  #13  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:10 AM
AlexM AlexM is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Sounds to me like you need to seat your head. Its the first thing you should do when putting on a new head to prevent your exact problem from happening. All you do is, once the head is on the drum, and the rim on the head, check to see that its gap between the head and rim is even all the way around. Then tention the head much tighter than you normally would, stretching it tightly (and evenly!!!) over the bearing edge. Push a little on the center of the head, and if you hear a little cracking, thats ok, you want that. Next you can evenly de-tention the screws, and then tune your pre-streched head. This shuold egt rid of your flapping, (as long as you take care to evenly tention the head) Your find that your heads last longer and need less tuning when you seat/stretch them too.

Im no pro, but I hope this helps.
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  #14  
Old 07-22-2008, 06:04 AM
otway otway is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM View Post
Sounds to me like you need to seat your head. Its the first thing you should do when putting on a new head to prevent your exact problem from happening. All you do is, once the head is on the drum, and the rim on the head, check to see that its gap between the head and rim is even all the way around. Then tention the head much tighter than you normally would, stretching it tightly (and evenly!!!) over the bearing edge. Push a little on the center of the head, and if you hear a little cracking, thats ok, you want that. Next you can evenly de-tention the screws, and then tune your pre-streched head. This shuold egt rid of your flapping, (as long as you take care to evenly tention the head) Your find that your heads last longer and need less tuning when you seat/stretch them too.

Im no pro, but I hope this helps.
hey man thanks allot, thats great advice i hope other people are reading these things as well..
unfortunatelt though (for my situatin) i did seat the heads.. i stretched them well and good as i always do when putting on double ply heads..

thanks again though
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  #15  
Old 07-22-2008, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Sorry to be contrary, Alex, but "seating" a head is not necessary and in fact is more likely to decrease the life of the head rather than increase it. Your description of it is more benign than most, you say "push a little." Some guys actually stand on the heads!

The whole seating thing is a fetish encouraged by the drum tuning bible--one reason that thing should not be taken as gospel.

In 40 years of drumming I have only "seated" one set of heads as described. (I had to try it, lots of guys said it was the right thing to do!) It did not make the heads easier to tune, hold a tune longer, or last longer. Quite the opposite, in fact. I haven't "seated" a head since.

Bob Gatzen, the guy who invented the EC2 heads, says not to "seat" them in the sense it's being discussed here. See this: Bob Gatzen on tom tuning

He talks about "seating" only as getting the head on evenly, i.e., no high or low spots. He also says it's easy to damage a head by applying too much tension--as the usual "seating" method will do by definition.

My original impression of otway's situation was that the head went on unevenly; now it's reinforced by the info that otway "seated" the head in question. Either can damage a head. Both together leads me to suspect a damaged (or, still, possibly defective) head.

Otway, don't worry too much about a little rocking--remember, it's hard to find a large enough truly flat surface to test them on. Not even a pane of glass is truly flat. If the rim from the suspect drum seems a little more out than the rest you could try bending it gently. Or, merely swap out the batter hoop for the reso hoop temporarily and see if it makes a difference.

But basically, if the hoop is pretty flat I'd wager all you need is a new head.

As Gatzen says in that video, put them on, tune them, play them for a day or two, retune and you're good to go.
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  #16  
Old 07-22-2008, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumtechdad View Post
Sorry to be contrary, Alex, but "seating" a head is not necessary and in fact is more likely to decrease the life of the head rather than increase it. Your description of it is more benign than most, you say "push a little." Some guys actually stand on the heads!

The whole seating thing is a fetish encouraged by the drum tuning bible--one reason that thing should not be taken as gospel.

In 40 years of drumming I have only "seated" one set of heads as described. (I had to try it, lots of guys said it was the right thing to do!) It did not make the heads easier to tune, hold a tune longer, or last longer. Quite the opposite, in fact. I haven't "seated" a head since.

Bob Gatzen, the guy who invented the EC2 heads, says not to "seat" them in the sense it's being discussed here. See this: Bob Gatzen on tom tuning

He talks about "seating" only as getting the head on evenly, i.e., no high or low spots. He also says it's easy to damage a head by applying too much tension--as the usual "seating" method will do by definition.

My original impression of otway's situation was that the head went on unevenly; now it's reinforced by the info that otway "seated" the head in question. Either can damage a head. Both together leads me to suspect a damaged (or, still, possibly defective) head.

Otway, don't worry too much about a little rocking--remember, it's hard to find a large enough truly flat surface to test them on. Not even a pane of glass is truly flat. If the rim from the suspect drum seems a little more out than the rest you could try bending it gently. Or, merely swap out the batter hoop for the reso hoop temporarily and see if it makes a difference.

But basically, if the hoop is pretty flat I'd wager all you need is a new head.

As Gatzen says in that video, put them on, tune them, play them for a day or two, retune and you're good to go.
I will agree here. I have always cranked them and stretched then because that's what I was taught to do. The last time I put emperors on a set, I didnt do that and they seem to be holding out longer and also holding their tunings much better. I have been using Aquarians lately and they are good sounding heads right out of the box. It is important to make sure the head fits on the drum before you tension it at all
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  #17  
Old 07-25-2008, 06:56 PM
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Victor_se Victor_se is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Well my damn problem With EC2 or EC1 is that I can't find a Damn store that sells them!

everyone only Got G2 or G1...And Emperos and ambassadors

nothing more....( well sometimes they do, but is hard to come by )





Does any People here lives in Mexico?...And if so, can you tell me a store that sell Evans like everyone must?
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  #18  
Old 07-28-2008, 10:25 PM
AlexM AlexM is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Quote:
Sorry to be contrary, Alex, but "seating" a head is not necessary and in fact is more likely to decrease the life of the head rather than increase it. Your description of it is more benign than most, you say "push a little." Some guys actually stand on the heads!
Im sorry, I should have made myself more clear. Drum heads should not be tightened to the point of the tention screws squeaking, and your fingers hurting from the strength needed to bring a head to that sort of tention. I do believe that the head should be seated to the bearing edge though. All this means is ensure that there is an even and consistant contact between bearing edge and head for the entire circumfrence of the drum. If not, you will never get the drum to sound as good as it could. As far as my "push a little" comment, this is simply a method to stretch the head a little. You can't expect best performance out of anything that has not been broken in a little. Ever drove your brand new car full out with out even breaking the engine in? Not a good idea. Isn't a new couch more comfortable once you've sat on it a few times and broken it in? Or even to stick with a musical instrument reference, Im pretty sure a guitar sting will stay in tune better and for longer with a little pregame stretching. With that being said, I believe seating is crutial to the overall tone of your drum, and that stretching, although optional, will definately lead to the prolonged use (and more importantly - tone) of your heads.

Quote:
The whole seating thing is a fetish encouraged by the drum tuning bible--one reason that thing should not be taken as gospel.
I think this is a pretty unfair comment considering your two references to a Gatzen video.
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Old 07-29-2008, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Hi Alex!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM View Post
Im sorry, I should have made myself more clear. Drum heads should not be tightened to the point of the tention screws squeaking, and your fingers hurting from the strength needed to bring a head to that sort of tention.
Understood!

Quote:
I do believe that the head should be seated to the bearing edge though. All this means is ensure that there is an even and consistant contact between bearing edge and head for the entire circumfrence of the drum.
This happens naturally when you apply tension to the head. What does "seating" do but stretch the mylar inside the bearing edge? Stretch = wear. Applying normal tuning tension to the head forms it to the bearing edge, assuming the edge is good and the head is not defective.

Quote:
If not, you will never get the drum to sound as good as it could.
Well, not in my experience.

Quote:
As far as my "push a little" comment, this is simply a method to stretch the head a little. You can't expect best performance out of anything that has not been broken in a little. Ever drove your brand new car full out with out even breaking the engine in? Not a good idea. Isn't a new couch more comfortable once you've sat on it a few times and broken it in? Or even to stick with a musical instrument reference, Im pretty sure a guitar sting will stay in tune better and for longer with a little pregame stretching.
When I played guitar (of course, that was when dinosaurs roamed the earth), you just put the new strings on, played 'em for a while, then retuned. That's what I recommend for drums. If you "pre-stretch" your guitar strings before using them I would expect less life from them, not more. That's simply a matter of logic.

Quote:
With that being said, I believe seating is crutial to the overall tone of your drum, and that stretching, although optional, will definately lead to the prolonged use (and more importantly - tone) of your heads.
Whatever you like to do in this regard, and whatever you like to believe, I'm cool with that. Whatever floats yer boat! But whenever I see recommendations for "seating" drum heads I'm going to respond by saying it's not necessary. I've only been at this drum thing for 40+ years and lord knows I've still a lot to learn. But I have seen young drummers totally frustrated trying to get a head to tune and failing repeatedly--quite frankly because the head was stretched unevenly during "seating." I'd love to spare them that torture, primarily because in all these years of drumming I've nought but once "seated" heads, and when I did I got heads that were harder to tune, harder to keep in tune, and heads that did not last as long as all the hundreds of heads, before and since, that I didn't "seat."

Quote:
I think this is a pretty unfair comment considering your two references to a Gatzen video.
I don't see why it's "unfair," and I don't see how references to Gatzen's videos make it unfair. The OP was asking about a head that Bob Gatzen designed, and the designer says not to "seat" heads. I thought that was relevant and still do. He does stress getting the head on evenly, and from this distance it seems to me that that was likely the OP's problem in the first place. Even more likely because he "seated" the head when it was on unevenly.

I'm probably harder on the DTB than I should be, but the "seating" fetish is one of the things that forbids my recommending it to n00bs. The others are its redundancy, horrifying English, and scattershot "organization." It's a useful resource for those who can already tune, you can pick up good things here and there. And the guy deserves a medal for doing it in the first place.

But "seating" heads has never been necessary, is not now necessary, and is in fact recommended against by a majority of head makers. Other than that I have no strong feelings about it! ;-)

Last edited by drumtechdad; 07-29-2008 at 06:43 PM.
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  #20  
Old 07-29-2008, 07:17 PM
AlexM AlexM is offline
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

Thanks for your insight drumtechdad. I value your opinion, and appriciate your reasonable posting. Carry on!
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  #21  
Old 07-29-2008, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: ec2 Drum Head Problem

The head isn't making contact with the bearing edge which is what the head tightens over. No matter how much you tighten it the head will still be like that. Make sure that the head seats perfectly on the drum head and doesnt wobble before you you put the rim on.
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