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  #1  
Old 01-22-2015, 06:27 PM
DrummerCA35 DrummerCA35 is offline
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Default Denting Drum Heads and Volume

Hi Guys,

I've never thought of myself as an overly loud player. In fact, my band mates like the volume I play it, I'm rarely asked to play more quietly. But I guess I must be hitting them pretty hard...

My snare head and first rack tom seem to be getting dented pretty quick. I put a new G1 on my snare, and after playing at a gig, it had dents after 20 minutes. My toms have EC2 heads, and the 10" tom, the first rack tom gets dented up. If I am denting a 2 ply head, I am wondering if I'm hitting too hard. The drums are not mic'd.

How often do you guys change your snare/tom heads? Is denting up a head so quickly an indication that the drums should be mic'd? For me, it seems to be mainly the snare and 10" tom. I suppose I could put a 2 ply on the snare, but I've never done that in all the years I've been playing.

Thanks...
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:00 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads & Volume

Dented heads typically indicate that you're striking a drum at an angle or using improper technique. If you find you are denting heads "in 20 minutes of playing", find an instructor immediately before you damage your hands and wrists.

When I began drumming, I destroyed two sets of heads in 3 months. After my first lesson, I can use a set of heads for an indefinite amount of time without ever denting them. I also hit with greater accuracy and velocity than I did back when I was denting heads, and my hands feel 100% better.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:03 PM
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mmulcahy1 mmulcahy1 is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads & Volume

Are your heads at the optimal tension for sound and proper rebound? A loose head will dent rather quickly.
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  #4  
Old 01-22-2015, 07:04 PM
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markiet1966 markiet1966 is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads & Volume

Have you re-configured your kit lately, sometimes tom angles can have an effect on this, are you using the same stick that you have previously used. I guess what I'm trying to say is, has anything changed that might cause this?

I would say that it's not that common to be denting heads, certainly not two ply heads.

Mark
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:18 PM
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The SunDog The SunDog is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads & Volume

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
Dented heads typically indicate that you're striking a drum at an angle or using improper technique. If you find you are denting heads "in 20 minutes of playing", find an instructor immediately before you damage your hands and wrists.

When I began drumming, I destroyed two sets of heads in 3 months. After my first lesson, I can use a set of heads for an indefinite amount of time without ever denting them. I also hit with greater accuracy and velocity than I did back when I was denting heads, and my hands feel 100% better.
+1 It's technique/stick angle. The tip is hitting the head where it should be striking flatter with more of the stick making contact. I can only imagine what your doing to your cymbals. When you start breaking those at $150-300 a pop you won't think it's cool or funny. I hit my snare so flat that the rim eventually destroys the middle of my sticks. $7 a month or so, as opposed to $20,30,40. When I change my heads its because they are losing tuning range and when they come off they have no dents.

PS. I'm a hitter too. Look at my avatar.......that's me ;)
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  #6  
Old 01-22-2015, 07:25 PM
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Pyromaniac777 Pyromaniac777 is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads & Volume

Just like the others have said, it just sounds like tom angles or technique.
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  #7  
Old 01-22-2015, 07:43 PM
DrummerCA35 DrummerCA35 is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads and Volume

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the posts and info! In response to the posts:

* I may have had the toms' tension too slack. That is possible.

* NOthing's changed with the angle of the toms or snare or model of sticks. I see the comments about stick angle...maybe that's it. Could be the the tip hitting the head vs the more of the stick.

* I have NEVER broken or cracked a cymbal in all of years I've been playing. My cymbals are over 10 years old, some of them over 30 years old. Combination of Zildian/Paiste 2002.

Thanks!
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  #8  
Old 01-22-2015, 08:44 PM
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JosephDAqui JosephDAqui is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads and Volume

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerCA35 View Post
Hi Guys,

I've never thought of myself as an overly loud player. In fact, my band mates like the volume I play it, I'm rarely asked to play more quietly. But I guess I must be hitting them pretty hard...

My snare head and first rack tom seem to be getting dented pretty quick. I put a new G1 on my snare, and after playing at a gig, it had dents after 20 minutes. My toms have EC2 heads, and the 10" tom, the first rack tom gets dented up. If I am denting a 2 ply head, I am wondering if I'm hitting too hard. The drums are not mic'd.

How often do you guys change your snare/tom heads? Is denting up a head so quickly an indication that the drums should be mic'd? For me, it seems to be mainly the snare and 10" tom. I suppose I could put a 2 ply on the snare, but I've never done that in all the years I've been playing.

Thanks...
Dave Weckl has a vid from his "A Natural Evolution" DVD, which you will find the excerpt on YouTube about setting up your drums. He explains it as if you were driving a car - being comfortable and using motion that feels natural to you. Start with the snare, HH and BD to establish the core, then add the toms to the height and angle which follows how your stick will fall naturally so that the stick is almost parallel to the head and hoop as your strike center (do it slowly and follow your stick in the air). I did did this many years ago and have never dented a head (haven't broken thru one either) . How do I hit? Well, my bandmates and others who hired me tell me I'm brutal, one guitarist I played with said I was violent, lol. It's really all about technique, efficiency and ergonomics.

Hope this helps.
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  #9  
Old 01-22-2015, 09:09 PM
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Fuzrock Fuzrock is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads and Volume

I've found that using sticks with smaller tips can cause dents as well. A nice big oval or acorn shape helps in my opinion.
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  #10  
Old 01-22-2015, 09:33 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads and Volume

I think that the easiest way to determine what is going on is to see a 10 second video of you doing a fill around the kit. Just straight 16th from snare to FT. We'll get to see the kit, the angles, the technique, etc, and be able to point you in the right direction.

Most of the time, it's the tom angles, with grip being a close second.

On the bright side, once you find/fix the issue, you'll save a bundle on drum heads, wrist surgery, and ibuprofen.
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  #11  
Old 01-22-2015, 10:27 PM
DrummerCA35 DrummerCA35 is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads and Volume

Going through the additional posts, thanks...

About the drumstick one, I use Harvey Mason sticks seen at: http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/mason_harvey.php

Maybe they DO have smaller tips...
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  #12  
Old 01-22-2015, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads and Volume

i would check out / study with http://davidelitch.com/ . he hits HARD live w/ good technique. and when i see pics of his kit w/ new heads, its nice fat smears, but no dents.
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  #13  
Old 01-22-2015, 10:40 PM
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Fuzrock Fuzrock is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads and Volume

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerCA35 View Post
Going through the additional posts, thanks...

About the drumstick one, I use Harvey Mason sticks seen at: http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/mason_harvey.php

Maybe they DO have smaller tips...
Those sticks are big time head denters. I've used them before.
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  #14  
Old 01-23-2015, 12:39 AM
DrummerCA35 DrummerCA35 is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads and Volume

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Originally Posted by Fuzrock View Post
Those sticks are big time head denters. I've used them before.
Good to know, I never even considered this until this forum. I got them because of how they sound on ride cymbals. But with this band, I seldom even USE a ride cymbal anymore. Maybe time to try new sticks.
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  #15  
Old 01-23-2015, 02:43 AM
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Road Bull Road Bull is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads and Volume

Yeah, I would take a close look at how you are hitting the drum, (angle of attack). But I would also pick sticks that don't have too round a tip. There just isn't much at impact area to disperse energy with the round tips.
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  #16  
Old 01-23-2015, 03:48 AM
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DamoSyzygy DamoSyzygy is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads and Volume

Check the integrity of your stick's tips - Damaged or missing tips will KILL drumheads.

If they are fine, then my suggestion would be to RELAX! You would have to be clenching your hands and disallowing rebound to cause that kind of damage, and its a matter of time before cymbals will go the same way as your heads.

If volume is an issue, get your band to TURN DOWN! (This is a huge problem for many bands, especially younger ones with less experience on stage)

Use any monitoring provided at venues to your advantage.

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-24-2015, 11:18 AM
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poika poika is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads and Volume

I'm guessing you "lay" into the drum head with the stick and don't allow it to rebound naturally. So instead of the energy of the impact spreading evenly throughout the drum, when you leave your stick on the head and press hard against the head you focus all the energy on a single spot on the head.

Combine that with loose tensioning/bad angles and there you go.

Many people think that loud volume is all about the power of the hit, when actually it's more about pulling the sound from the drum. Just set the head and the drum in motion and let it do the work.
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  #18  
Old 01-30-2015, 09:27 AM
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Trip McNealy Trip McNealy is offline
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Default Re: Denting Drum Heads and Volume

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzrock View Post
I've found that using sticks with smaller tips can cause dents as well. A nice big oval or acorn shape helps in my opinion.
+1 on this as well. I've been drumming for well over 25 years with hardly any denting issues and I recently too put some clear G1 heads (I'm usually a 2-ply coated guy) on my toms and noticed now some very faint denting occurring when I use Keith Carlock sig sticks from Vic Firth. They have a very small tip. I got no denting when using 5As or a barrel style tip.

Quite a shame as I enjoyed the feel of the Carlocks... I'll have to go back to 2-ply heads, or try G14's.
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