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  #1  
Old 07-05-2014, 07:44 AM
dzarren dzarren is offline
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Default Issues with a 20x20 Bass, on and on?

I've got a 20x20 maple kick, 6 plies.

The first thing I personally ever put on it was a superkick 1 / regulator combo, and it sounded great, amazing, I loved it, but it was a little quiet compared to the ambassadors up top.

4 years passed and i decided i should change the heads.

I went for black suede power stroke 3 batter, and a ebony powerstroke 3 resonant, with a 5 inch hole cut in the head off to the side.

I tuned it up, and the resonant head was amazing, just a slight tap, and it would rumble, amazing low end and fantastic warmth.
But the batter head was different, it was really slappy sounding and didnt seem to resonate at all. which i thought was strange, i thought the head with the hole would disturb the resonance more. I really didnt like the sound, and i thought i had a bad head, after hearing about some bad remos escaping, and i did just buy, 30 new heads, maybe this one was the bad one out of the 30 i bought, since everything else seemed fine.

I ended up buying another head, an EMAD 1 ONYX. I put it on and tuned it up, and it literally sounded THE SAME.

Heres the thing, i dont know if this is a bad head as well. The head out of the box had zero tension on it, it was completely flappy and would not produce a tone, like heads should, out of the box. If i shook the head, it would just flap around and was not rigid.

Any way i put it on and there is no improvement in sound, so im thinking it might be the hole. Ive been told by some that a 5 inch hole is too large for a 20 inch drum. but i feel like this may not be the case, because the resonant head resonates so beautifully with a light touch, i feel like the batter should do the same, at least at low volumes.

did i get two dead heads here or am i missing a trick?

The hole in the regulator bass drum head was 4 and a quarter inches, but i didnt get any issues like this. I loved the sound, but it was a tad quiet so, i decided to switch.

The Emad is a very slight improvement compared to the PS3, but almost negligable. I regret spending the money i did to get the very same sound.

any insight you guys might have?
I find it hard to beleive that i got two dead heads in a row, but upon recollection, neither of the heads had any resonance out of the box, before i put them on the drum. The remo was not flappy, but the evans was very flappy.


Thanks for reading!
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  #2  
Old 07-05-2014, 07:47 AM
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Default Re: Issues with a 20x20 Bass, on and on?

Your issue, I'm almost certain, is the type of film. Onyx, Black Suede, the black coated film heads (not Ebony) are notoriously much dryer & darker than any other kind. As was suggested in the other thread- try a clear Powerstroke 3.

Also, I don't believe any pre-muffled bass drum head is going to be "rigid" or not "flappy" out of the box. They're much bigger than other heads and obviously are muffled.
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  #3  
Old 07-05-2014, 08:31 AM
dzarren dzarren is offline
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Default Re: Issues with a 20x20 Bass, on and on?

How would a Texture coated superkick 1 compare to this, and also compare to the clear superkick 1?

I was able to get a texture coated superkick 1 for half price, so i snagged that up.
Aquarians coating is kind of beastly, so would i again be disappointed in the lack of tone from this head as well, when compared to the clear head i was using before?

Ive been avoiding clear kick drum heads for all recent purchases, i have some subconcious distaste for them. I will be sure to try a clear PS3 eventually.

I ended putting on the black suede PS3 on to a Sonor 503 bass wood drum, and i threw my old regulator on it, and it sounds better than the PS3/PS3 combo in the maple drum. Maybe im just imagining it, because before i had an emperor on the 503 and it sounded horrible.

Thanks for the reply!
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: Issues with a 20x20 Bass, on and on?

You might like it better on the 503 due to what i assume is a shallower kick? Or, perhaps that drum just responds better to that kind of head.

A coated Superkick should be more 'normal' than the black heads, yes.. I've used coated kick heads for a while and love them. Be sure to try some different tunings if you don't like it at first. Coated heads obviously have less attack (though that's more at lower dynamics) but I find that the coating gives the higher dynamics more of a 'meaty' quality on my kit. The clear would probably have more attack and transparency with more ring.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-05-2014, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Issues with a 20x20 Bass, on and on?

It's only a 20 but have you tried setting it up in different parts of the room? That can make all the difference.
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  #6  
Old 07-07-2014, 11:07 AM
dzarren dzarren is offline
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Default Re: Issues with a 20x20 Bass, on and on?

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Originally Posted by porter View Post
You might like it better on the 503 due to what i assume is a shallower kick? Or, perhaps that drum just responds better to that kind of head.

A coated Superkick should be more 'normal' than the black heads, yes.. I've used coated kick heads for a while and love them. Be sure to try some different tunings if you don't like it at first. Coated heads obviously have less attack (though that's more at lower dynamics) but I find that the coating gives the higher dynamics more of a 'meaty' quality on my kit. The clear would probably have more attack and transparency with more ring.

Hope this helps.
Yes! The kick is much shallower. Iim glad to hear the coated super kick will be closer to normal, I just hope I don't end up thinking its a little too quiet. Even with the emad, I think it is actually rather quiet. Sometimes I don't hear it in my fills, it's just totally buried under my toms. I don't know if it is just me and my brain, but I feel like a clear ps3 would be much louder as well as possessing the tonal qualities I seek.
Sigh but that'll have to wait for another day, I've already got the aquarian and I literally just put on the emad.


And to Dre25 I was able to move the drum around the room since no other drums are attached to it, but it didn't seem to make any difference, as the room is very open to begin with. It's more like 4 rooms that aren't really divided by walls. I did notice that my other drums sounded much better in the open room as opposed to my bedroom upstairs. I had brought down the other kick and I tried the metal snare today. The snare was amazing, wish it sounded like that upstairs.

So I know when my nice kit sounds crappy in the open room, it most definitely sounds crappy.
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2014, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Issues with a 20x20 Bass, on and on?

The issues you have with the sound is likely just that Ebony/Suede film. It's cool looking, but, pretty dry and kinda dead sounding IMO.

If other heads seems quiet, you might try an Aquarian Coated Studio X head.
That one still has a muffle (power dot material ring) on the head, but isn't as heavy duty (cutting volume) with the muffling as an SK is.
I think the SK1 head is pretty heavy on the muffling myself, but people like it a lot.

The toms would seem louder than a 20" bass drum, even 20" deep, unless you have it pretty open and play it with a strong foot as you do fills.

Another pre-muffed head that's nice is a coated PS3, or an Evans Frosted EQ1.

I've played a 20x20 bass drum before, and it was a pretty fun drum!

Good luck!
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  #8  
Old 07-10-2014, 08:21 AM
dzarren dzarren is offline
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Default Re: Issues with a 20x20 Bass, on and on?

Mmmm yeah! I thought id go for the black suede because I had black suede emperors on all my toms and i thought they sounded pretty awesome, so i thought a black suede PS3 would fit the bill. nope!

I wonder if a clear emad would suit me better. Even the black emad seems quiet compared to the toms. And i think im hitting the bass drum pretty hard.
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  #9  
Old 07-16-2014, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: Issues with a 20x20 Bass, on and on?

Do you know what your kit sounds like out front? Usually from where I'm sitting my kick seems quieter than it is elsewhere in the room.

On the other hand, recently I've been trying to ease up with my hands and kicking the bass harder to get a more kick-heavy balance.

What kind of beater are you using? What kind of patch if any do you have on the batter head? Do you have anything in the drum for muffling?
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Issues with a 20x20 Bass, on and on?

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Originally Posted by dzarren View Post
I was able to move the drum around the room since no other drums are attached to it, but it didn't seem to make any difference. I did notice that my other drums sounded much better in the open room as opposed to my bedroom upstairs.
The answer is almost certainly contained within your own observations. Tuning! If you have a drum that sounds poor/the same no matter where it's placed in the room, or from one room to another, then it's not producing any tone. There are many reasons affecting this, not least of all the depth of your drum, but tuning is almost certainly the answer.

A 5" hole is a bit big for a 20" reso head, but it's unlikely to be the deal breaker. If you have a standard construction 20" x 20" drum, the fundamental tone will be very diminished, & errant overtones will dominate. This makes it difficult to pull out a defined "voice" from the drum, & that's often why it's sound gets buried compared to everything else. Without changing the drum, the only way of bringing some sonic distinction back to the drum is to crank the head tensions up. Do this in small increments. The reso head should typically be much higher than the batter head. As I have no idea how your drum reacts, I can't advise you on how tight, etc, but you need to tune up to the point where you start to "load the room". You should feel the bass drum as much as hear it. Get someone else to play it & listen to the drum some distance out front. An un-ported redo head will make this task much easier, & I suggest you go that way unless you have frequent mic'ing requirements. in any case, you should be able to tune to suit the application & the room.

You mention Aquarian regulator & similar reso heads. These types are as dead as hell, & produce next to no projected tone. The satisfying "resonance" that you report from your reso head is almost certainly low frequency close proximity stuff. I guarantee you can't hear it more than a few feet away. A lighter reso head with simple edge ring muffling will deliver much more in the way of projected tone.

One last thing, a bass drum head is not designed to produce a tone un-tensioned out of the box, & is no gauge of installed performance.
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  #11  
Old 07-17-2014, 08:42 PM
dzarren dzarren is offline
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Default Re: Issues with a 20x20 Bass, on and on?

Before i abandoned the black suede powerstroke 3, I tried everything i could manage in terms of tuning. I cranked it way higher than i was comfortable with and still wasnt getting anything decent sounding out of the head, The emad onyx is a slight improvement, but quite quiet, i really liked the sound of the super kick and regulator concept. i thought it was quite resonant, especially in comparison to what i have now. tons of low end and it felt great!

Ive never tried any 2 ply heads for the bass drum mainly because i just fell in love with how the superkick 1 sounded, and i just assumed that 2 ply was just not part of the realm i should wander.

I always use an evans EQ patch on the head. I use axis marksman beaters, they are made of delrin. BUT there is a felt patch i glued to one side of the beater. Its actually the things that you stick under the legs of chairs and tables to let them slide around better, like a thick layer of dense felt. it contacts the head flush.
I dont put anything in the drum to muffle it. even with the decay that the superkick had, i prefered not to muffle, i like some sustain. but these ps3 and emad have pretty much zero sustain, so i havnt even real considered any extra muffling.

and the kit is actually facing a main window, so there is almost no room in front of it for me to hear it out front.
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