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  #1  
Old 12-22-2011, 05:53 AM
Drumwiz Drumwiz is offline
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Default Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

I have a Ludwig Keystone kit (13, 16 &18 floors, Bonham setup) with vintage coated emperors on the toms. I haven't heard them close mic'd yet but I don't think they sound great to my ear, they sound maybe a little too vintage-ey if that makes sense, kind of ringey but they are tuned correctly. I think I want them just a tad more modern, I play hard rock and classic rock, I'm not an extremely heavy hitter. I'm thinking of putting regular coated emperors on them, will there be much difference sound wise?

I know they come with clear stock heads, but I don't think I want to go clear. Open to any suggestions but definitely want to stick to Remo's.

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2011, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Realistically, the difference is 0.5 mil per layer.....1 mil all up. Whilst the standard Emp may be ever so slightly more open sounding, I think the difference is really negligable.....it'd take a pretty well trained ear to pick the difference.

I'm happy for someone to prove me wrong, but I've always seen the difference between to the two as little more than a marketing strategy to appeal to anyone playing Emps prior to the mid to late 70's.
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2011, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

To my ear the Vintage sound slightly deeper and less resonate but the difference is negligible. In a live setting I don't think you could hear the difference.
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2011, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumwiz View Post
I have a Ludwig Keystone kit (13, 16 &18 floors, Bonham setup) with vintage coated emperors on the toms. I haven't heard them close mic'd yet but I don't think they sound great to my ear, they sound maybe a little too vintage-ey if that makes sense, kind of ringey but they are tuned correctly. I think I want them just a tad more modern, I play hard rock and classic rock, I'm not an extremely heavy hitter. I'm thinking of putting regular coated emperors on them, will there be much difference sound wise?

I know they come with clear stock heads, but I don't think I want to go clear. Open to any suggestions but definitely want to stick to Remo's.

Thanks.
Try close-micing them and see what you think. Mic'ed or unmic'ed, heads always sound deeper from the audience perspective, so try tuning them up a tiny bit higher than you think you want them to sound. Gavin Harrison uses Vintage Emperors and I think you could say he has a more modern sound, so it's the tuning and the shells/hoops that make the difference.

If you aren't a heavy hitter and you want a more focused sound than a wide open double-ply head, then you might try a clear CS head (with the dot). Lighter strokes emphasize the tone of the drum with less attack, so a clear head will bring the attack back in, and the dot will cut out the overtones, giving a more focused sound.
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2011, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

I've used both heads quite a lot. The modern Emperors are slightly brighter, but not a lot. (besides the ply thickness, the modern Emps use a clear film and Vintage Emps use a white film, which may or may not contribute to the difference I hear.) It's only really noticeable when you are playing the drums alone. Honestly, if you are finding the Vintage heads too ringy, I think moving to the regular Emperor is a step in the wrong direction. If you want less ring, go with a Pinstripe or PowerStroke head, IMO.
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2011, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

If you went with modern emp's you would be defeating your purpose because they're thinner than vintage emp's.

I had modern coated emp's on my Ludwig Epics & when I switched to vintage emp's I could tell the difference right off but the shells are thin so maybe that's why.

If you want something even less resonant maybe go to a coated pinstripe or emperor fiberskin that's what I was gonna do if i didn't. like the vintage emp's but I love em..lol

good luck,
Bonzolead
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2011, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

I've tried several different heads on my fiberglass Blaemire kit, and the Vintage Emps are by far my favorite. I'm really digging the tone and the feel of these heads. I've also noticed the coating seems to be wearing better than the regular Emps.
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2011, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Hmm, I'm hoping it's just a slight close-mic or tuning thing. I really like the sound of Gavin Harrison's kit, especially on that Letterman drum solo week a few months ago!

Mine just sounds almost like a jazz kit to me for some reason.
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2011, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

For a more modern sound, you need black dots on everything. And take your bottom heads off. That'll do it ;)
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2011, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

This may sound totally counter-intuitive but have you considered Ambassadors?

I say this because I've been using Ambassadors on my kit for years and they have a great combination of attack and depth. It's possible to tune an Ambassador head slightly lower and with similar attack to an Emperor if you know what you're doing. They sound great under close mics.

It does take some skill to tune them but I think it might be worth considering, even if it might sound odd to most.
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  #11  
Old 12-22-2011, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

It sounds like your tuning our heads too tight. Thats the only way I can see those head being ringy enough to complain about. Vintage Emps and Emps are naturally deep, fat heads. Either you got a bad batch or they are too tight.
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  #12  
Old 12-22-2011, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

It's possible they're too tight, I had a local drum guru/shop owner/tech tune them for me. But hey, who knows. Maybe I'll try and tinker with them.

I don't want to go for the single-ply, including the black dots. I think it will either be the vintage emps (tuned correctly if possible), or clear emps. Any advice from the clear emps people out there?
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  #13  
Old 12-23-2011, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Hmm I'm also curious about these Remo Emperor X's...
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  #14  
Old 12-24-2011, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

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Originally Posted by Drumwiz View Post
Hmm I'm also curious about these Remo Emperor X's...
As heavy as it gets. I've only ever had one drum that I was prepared to put an Emp X on. It was on old style maple free floater that I just always struggled to tame. Couldn't get rid of the squeeling overtones no matter how I tuned it. The only head that got me a sound I thought workable was an Emp X.

To me they're just too heavy for general purpose. I reckon they'd crush the life out of most drums. But as I always say, never be afraid to experiment with your drums. The only way you're gonna know is if you try it out yourself.
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  #15  
Old 12-25-2011, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

I made a quick youtube video of my toms just from a flipcam, link below. I put a regular emperor on the 16", the 13" and 18" still have vintage emps. The resonants are stock ludwig/evans (probably single ply).

I'm still undecided on the regular emps or vintage. I did notice the vintages are thicker and give less rebound, the regulars are a little more "slappy", but very minimal difference.

http://youtu.be/PDb9NT-ch2U
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  #16  
Old 12-28-2011, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Have you considered putting a coated Ambassador on the Reso? That will definitely bring down the brightness. If you have standard Ludwig clear heads on bottom, if they say "Heavy" that is similar to a clear Ambassador, if it is a medium that is like a Diplomat which is really thin for a 16 & 18" floor tom.
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  #17  
Old 12-28-2011, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

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Originally Posted by samdrum View Post
Have you considered putting a coated Ambassador on the Reso? That will definitely bring down the brightness. If you have standard Ludwig clear heads on bottom, if they say "Heavy" that is similar to a clear Ambassador, if it is a medium that is like a Diplomat which is really thin for a 16 & 18" floor tom.
They don't say Heavy or Medium, they just say "Ludwig original heads by Evans". Either way, I'm going to replace them with real remo ambos soon. Just can't decide whether to record with vintage emps or standard emps. My gut feeling says record with the standard emps as they're a bit lighter, I don't want them to be too dead sounding, I want just a little more modern punch. So that points to standard emps for me, and maybe vintage emps when playing live...
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  #18  
Old 01-03-2012, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

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Originally Posted by Drumwiz View Post
... I want just a little more modern punch. So that points to standard emps for me, and maybe vintage emps when playing live...
I was thinking "clear emplorer" while reading this thread. I'm pretty sure they'll ring out more, but I bet they'll have more of the "modern punch" you're missing.

I recently went from coated ambassadors on my toms to clear emporers and the change was exactly how you described... Kinda made a jazzier sounding kit into a rock sounding kit.

PS - I spent alot of time tuning my drums better too, so that plays a big part. I realized I was tuning my drums much higher than needed. Started doing the "just past wrinkle" method and found the sweet resonant spot in no-time....
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  #19  
Old 06-24-2015, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Bumping this old thread because I just ordered some Vintage Emperors.

Checked Remo's site and it says the Vintage are polyester, and the standard Emperors are mylar.

Just an FYI.
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  #20  
Old 06-24-2015, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Masters View Post
To my ear the Vintage sound slightly deeper and less resonate but the difference is negligible. In a live setting I don't think you could hear the difference.
Agreed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendozart View Post
I've tried several different heads on my fiberglass Blaemire kit, and the Vintage Emps are by far my favorite. I'm really digging the tone and the feel of these heads. I've also noticed the coating seems to be wearing better than the regular Emps.
Agreed on the feel and coating wear!

I love the Vintage Emps (and Vintage Ambassadors!)
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  #21  
Old 06-24-2015, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Coated vintage emps were some of the best heads I ever had on my toms. Can't suggest them enough.
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  #22  
Old 06-24-2015, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

I'm really partial to the Smooth White Emperors. I'm pretty sure that the Vintage, Smooth White, and White Suede heads are all the same polyester film (vs mylar for the rest of Remo's lines).

The Smooth White heads have a better feel for me than any other heads. I tried some Evans coated G2 heads a few weeks ago and they felt so stiff, it was like playing on a tabletop.
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

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Originally Posted by BradGunnerSGT View Post
I'm really partial to the Smooth White Emperors. I'm pretty sure that the Vintage, Smooth White, and White Suede heads are all the same polyester film (vs mylar for the rest of Remo's lines).

The Smooth White heads have a better feel for me than any other heads. I tried some Evans coated G2 heads a few weeks ago and they felt so stiff, it was like playing on a tabletop.
I used to love the smooth white emps when I used 2 ply heads too Brad. I've never tried the smooth white ambassadors yet, I bet they would sound nice too. I prefer the polyester film over the mylar. The whitish film is the classic tone to my ear. Right now I'm on a smooth white Ludwig jag, but Remo smooth white ambs are the next experiment.
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  #24  
Old 06-24-2015, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

What do you have for resonant heads? I've found that switching to a thicker reso head allowed me to keep the fundamental tone I wanted while reducing the sustain and overtones.
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Big Vintage Emperor fan here... I love the coated most, but have used the clear in the studio and they sounded fantastic.

My favorites.
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  #26  
Old 06-25-2015, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Mylar is a brand name for polyester film---all drumheads are made from the same stuff---thick or thin, single or 2-ply they are ALL polyester!
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Old 06-26-2015, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy chip View Post
Mylar is a brand name for polyester film---all drumheads are made from the same stuff---thick or thin, single or 2-ply they are ALL polyester!
Yes, Mylar is a Dupont-trademarked brand name for polyester film and is used for all of Remo's product line (and Evans and probably Aquarian). That doesn't mean that the film is exactly the same for all product lines.

Dupont calls it Mylar, but that is like saying regular Kleenex and Ultra-soft Kleenex, and Kleenex with lotion are all the same thing. It's all Kleenex (because that is the brand name), but the composition is different.
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  #28  
Old 06-26-2015, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradGunnerSGT View Post
Yes, Mylar is a Dupont-trademarked brand name for polyester film and is used for all of Remo's product line (and Evans and probably Aquarian). That doesn't mean that the film is exactly the same for all product lines.

Dupont calls it Mylar, but that is like saying regular Kleenex and Ultra-soft Kleenex, and Kleenex with lotion are all the same thing. It's all Kleenex (because that is the brand name), but the composition is different.
From EvansSpecialist in this thread:

Quote:
There are more than slight chemical differences between all of the different films that we use- it's the key element of what makes one head sound different from another model, from another brand (alongside the other design elements that provide ease of use, consistency of performance, tuning range, etc.). I can guarantee that we're not using some "off-the-side" lower quality cut of material- that's hearsay. Also, the films are most definitely made in different factories by different companies.
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  #29  
Old 06-27-2015, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Got 'em.

I'm a believer. I think I'll be sticking with the Vintage Emperors.

I've got racks of different heads I've tried stacked up,
and I like these better than any of the others I've tried.
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  #30  
Old 06-27-2015, 04:01 AM
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Default Re: Remo Coated Emperor vs. Vintage Emperor

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy chip View Post
Mylar is a brand name for polyester film---all drumheads are made from the same stuff---thick or thin, single or 2-ply they are ALL polyester!

Hey - don't shoot the messenger - LOL

I was just relaying what I read on Remo's site:

http://www.remo.com/portal/products/...ds_coated.html

"...Coated Emperor® heads are warmer and more durable than Clear Emperor®s. They’re made with two free-floating plies of 7-mil Mylar® film..."

"... Vintage Emperor
A reissue of the first Remo Emperor® drumhead that changed the art of drumming in the late 1960’s. Constructed of 2-plies of 7.5-mil polyester film..."
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