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  #1  
Old 05-09-2008, 05:25 AM
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Default Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

Had my eye on this interesting ride cymbal for some time now since I initially tested several samples a while back. Well certainly not fitting into my usual comfort zone for a ride cymbal there was something about it's sound that I found "unique" but not intially as appealing as other Agop rides i've heard over time. This ride has a very complex and one of a kind combination of sounds and visually is one wacky looking cymbal in many ways. Very complex SE type hand hammering and lathing on top and bottom and a wild prolile with a very steep outer flanged edge and all this combined with a small interesting high shaped bell. The overall sound is best described as a mix of high and lows giving off a almost nasty/trashy level of a dark underwash the sits below a icy dark stick click but NOT pingy. The crash too is real different in character and explosive but quick due to the unique outer flanged edge and general thinner outer section of the cymbal. The Epoch has many interesting "sweet spots" too for playing ride patterns I also dscovered today. Like I say this is no one trick pony sound wise.

Okay now i'll give the paticulars of my sample I picked up today. This was my 50th bithday gift to myself and intended to fill a gap I had and needed for a ride for large stage gigs and for a 17 piece Big Band I perform with. I wanted something with great dark stick click with good projection and volume but to be very different sounding and somewhat wild in character but still controlled in nature. The Epoch fits this bill perfectly and will shine best when heard out front well being played in a group is my feeling. This is not the cymbal that will sound great in your basement as a stand alone ride in your practice space. I think Lenny was hearing the same thing being how it sounds and works in the context of a band in his case a electric jazz group over all other factors. Mine is one heavy beast coming in at a whopping 3025g but does not play or sound like most other heavy rides i've owned from other cymbal companies in the past at that weight. Hats off to Lenny White and Agop for creating this cymbal since there's nothing else i've heard that sounds like it currently on the market. For others coming in contact with this ride I feel it comes with a learning curve and may take a while to grow on you but it certanly has a strange but attractive sound quality IMO.

Can't wait to put it to use on Sunday with the all original compositions Big Band.and will report my further findings on this interesting new ride cymbal.
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Last edited by Steamer; 05-09-2008 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 05-09-2008, 10:00 AM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

Happy Birthday Stan, hope the lunch with the Agop guys was fun.......
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2008, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Happy Birthday Stan, hope the lunch with the Agop guys was fun.......
Thanks aydee for the kind wishes.

Had to take a raincheck on lunch due to battling some food poisoning or some kind of wicked stomach flu since Tuesday morning so I just did a quick drop by to select an Epoch and head back home. Starting to feel a little better today finally and yes the cymbal is indeed a real trip sound wise.
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Old 05-09-2008, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

What a bummer to be sick around your Birthday.

How about some pics of this beast?
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Old 05-09-2008, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

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Originally Posted by ECVail View Post
What a bummer to be sick around your Birthday.

How about some pics of this beast?
Yes it's made for an "interesting" slide into five O indeed ECVail.

I should have some pics soon to share of the new beast.
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Old 05-10-2008, 05:43 AM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

Okay the Istanbul Agop Lenny White Signature Epoch 3025g ride top and bottom eye candy shots. Very unique lathing and hand hammering on this cymbal including the visable outer edge with the steep bow as seen on the front and back pics:
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Last edited by Steamer; 09-18-2010 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 05-10-2008, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

Happy birthday Stan!!
Looks like a very nice piece of bronze you picked up there!

3025 grams...you own two cymbals in one. The hammering and lathing reminds me of your SE TW ride a bit. Although the Epoch is slightly heavier, can it be compared regarding the sound characteristics?

PS: Get well soon!

Karl
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Old 05-10-2008, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

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Originally Posted by Drummer Karl View Post
Happy birthday Stan!!
Looks like a very nice piece of bronze you picked up there!

3025 grams...you own two cymbals in one. The hammering and lathing reminds me of your SE TW ride a bit. Although the Epoch is slightly heavier, can it be compared regarding the sound characteristics?

PS: Get well soon!

Karl

Thanks Karl! Yes feeling a bit better day by day.

There really is nothing else made by Agop that compares to this cymbal Karl. It is very different period from the SE TW's etc...

This cymbal with it's combined weight and dramatic profile small high bell and steep outward bow and thinner edge makes for one unique sound Karl. The more I get to know it the more interesting sounds I hear coming from it. It has several sweet spots all over the top surface for the stick. It has very deep rich overtones to start with combined with a dark/nasty but somewhat even underwash with a mix of a whole range of highs to lows more so than any of my other Agop rides. The crash is thunderous and quick for a 3025g cymbal probably due to the thinner steep outer edge section. Most interesting thing is the stick which sits on top clearly over the deep full wash but not in a pingy way. More of an icy woody stick click with lots of sound projection towards the audience. If I would be so brave to suggest I think this cymbal more than anyhing else i've heard so far comes closer "to certain select sound characteristics" compared to the heavier Turkish K's Tony used on recordings with Miles. Maybe not the air in the wash you hear from those cymbals but certainly the hard stick click attack and projection combined with the powerful shoulder crashes that you hear on the recordings. Due to it's odd shape very different hand lathing and hammering patterns and small high bell I think this is a one of a kind cymbal in many ways though Karl and apparently Lenny had Agop keep working on prototypes till he heard the sound he was after with now what is in my hands. Interesting project producing quite the interesting ride cymbal beast.
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Old 05-10-2008, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

One other thing I forgot to mention in my latest summary of the Epoch is this beast has HUGE cymbal wobble for a heavy 3025g ride cymbal.
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Old 05-11-2008, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

Here's 3 sets of pictures that capture some close ups of the small bell, top lathing, prolile and wild steep outer bow/flanged edge of my 3025g 22" Epoch ride:
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Last edited by Steamer; 01-26-2009 at 01:53 AM.
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  #11  
Old 05-12-2008, 12:36 AM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

Thanks for the edge pics and the information. I just listened to a 2600 grams model on cymbalsonly and yeah, Im very impressed that it has such a clear ping, yet with darkness and that handmade sound. Sounds good although I wanna stay with light Ride cymbals at least for now... :-)

Time to work in summer holidays...then I`d able to come to Musikmesse, to Meinl festival...and I can finally purchase that Agop Signature or SE 22" I want so bad....since I wanna do my driver license with 18 years.

Karl
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

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Originally Posted by Drummer Karl View Post
Thanks for the edge pics and the information. I just listened to a 2600 grams model on cymbalsonly and yeah, Im very impressed that it has such a clear ping, yet with darkness and that handmade sound. Sounds good although I wanna stay with light Ride cymbals at least for now... :-)

Time to work in summer holidays...then I`d able to come to Musikmesse, to Meinl festival...and I can finally purchase that Agop Signature or SE 22" I want so bad....since I wanna do my driver license with 18 years.

Karl
Your welcome and good luck with all your future endeavors Karl. I hear you on the thin Agop rides because they certainly have their place in most types of acoustic jazz music

For me this was required purchase Karl for the 17 piece Big Band I perform with that plays very challenging all original charts. The music can go from a whisper to an intense roar and EVERYBODY has to hear the time feel from the drums at all times especially when things get a little more implied with complex rhythmic cycles/grooves and such going on in the music. In that regard the Epoch scored a big A+ today with the group in question delivering a PERFECT score with the arranger and leader who commented on the break it was the definitive sounding ride cymbal for this band as heard in the large theatre at today's. reh. for an upcoming concert. Great projecting dark stick click and and full deep wash to support the band but not as i'll say yet again in a bright or one dimensional "pingy" way at all. Great cymbal Mr.White!
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Old 05-16-2008, 07:27 AM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

Just had some friends over for a piano trio session at the house. The piano player brought a very high quality portable recorder with him to record the music tonight to listen to later. Took the opportunity to put the Epoch up to see how it would record on a couple of the numbers we played. Man does this cymbal really shine recorded. On some playbacks I managed to listen to on headphones before he left it sounded like it had a really great vintage pie "vibe" to it's character with a terrific dark stick and supporting deep wash underneath going on. The bell surprisingly recorded very well too I noticed.

Really digging this cymbal the more I get to know it. Lenny and Agop nailed what they were after!
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:53 AM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

This is very cool. The new Modern Drummer has an article about Lennie White that goes in to detail about the Epoch line. Apparantly Lennie owns the cymbal Tony used on the Nefertiti recording session. The Epochs are modeled after that cymbal. At the time the article was written, there were only 22 of them on the market. The only other cymbal I can think of in a similar weight range with dark sound characteristics are the old Paiste Sound Creation dark rides, which were great cymbals in their own right, but obviously not to the level of the Epochs.

I recently scored an Agop of my own. It's a 22" Agop Signature model that weighs in at about 2300 grams. The previous owner was Matt Chamberlain. I still haven't taken this baby out the practice room yet. I can't wait.
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Old 05-23-2008, 05:23 AM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

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Originally Posted by OldStampK View Post
This is very cool. The new Modern Drummer has an article about Lennie White that goes in to detail about the Epoch line. Apparantly Lennie owns the cymbal Tony used on the Nefertiti recording session. The Epochs are modeled after that cymbal. At the time the article was written, there were only 22 of them on the market. The only other cymbal I can think of in a similar weight range with dark sound characteristics are the old Paiste Sound Creation dark rides, which were great cymbals in their own right, but obviously not to the level of the Epochs.

I recently scored an Agop of my own. It's a 22" Agop Signature model that weighs in at about 2300 grams. The previous owner was Matt Chamberlain. I still haven't taken this baby out the practice room yet. I can't wait.
I'd like to hear more about what he says on that article OldStampK. This is DEFINETLY in that zone of character and sound of a heavier old Tony Turkish K's. Saw a picture of one of these odd ball old Tony K's with the curved down section on the outer edge with extensive hand hammering like the one the Epoch was based on but with a larger bell. The Epoch has a similar strongly curved down outer edge and one of a kind profile but with a smaller bell that adds it's own slant to the old cymbal it was modeled after. Like I say the level of hand hammering is a real trip on the Epoch being very extensive on both sides but slightly different as is the lathing patterns on top and bottom. Much darker than my modern 22" K Dark Medium ride that I had for louder gigs which was much brighter/cutting and far less complex in character and most definetely not as dark as the Epoch in general. The Epoch is both dark but with highs too giving a strong yet unpingy stick sound combined with the complex underwash at this range of weight that has a very deep dark thing going on. Lenny and Agop got it rght!

Like i've said before this ride is best judged in the context of actual playing situation beyond a doubt for me. Just came from using it at a 3 hour Big Band reh. and the more I play it {and hard at times} the more it's starting to settle in quite nicely. Amazing beautiful stick and supporting wash and the bell has quite a useable musical cut and sound. I've noticed the Epoch getting mix views so far on the net but I attribute that to it being heard as a stand alone ride but not in the context of playing situation. I remember the words of the the great Canadian jazz drummer Terry Clarke who told me he did a double bill with the Miles Quintet back in the late sixties and in the late afternoon he went back into the hall and got back on stage to play the "legendary" ride. He said it sounded very hard and trashy in character alone being nothing special to his ears but later in the evening when heard with Miles group it sounded AMAZING. Sure alot of this could be Tony's individual touch but he commented how unattractive it sounded on it's own out of the context of the music. Feel the exact same way about the Epoch. When used in the music it really shows it's worth and stuff at least for me and my personal approach and touch and what I like to hear in a ride cymbal sitting in the drivers seat on stage or even better out front from what i've heard from others so far.

Great score on the Matt Chamberlain Sig ride by the way.
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Last edited by Steamer; 05-23-2008 at 06:19 AM.
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Old 05-25-2008, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

Well on it's first real outing on a long night of original Big Band music it certainly did the trick.

The concert was recorded and had a chance to hear some brief playbacks on headphones before heading home and sure liked what I heard indeed. Will try to obtain some samples to post from the concert when made available to hear it in the context of the music tonight. As i'll say yet again the Lenny/Agop collaboration got it right with the Epoch:}
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Old 08-18-2008, 04:19 AM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

Still lots of love for my Epoch ride by the way. Have been very busy with a teaching/performing project for a large ensemble right through till the middle of September and with recording some demo tracks for another quartet project with it's eclectic mix of music. The Epoch has been center stage for both these projects.

The recorded sound of the Epoch ride is simply stunning. The stick sound is a real standout over a dark rich wash. Sounds much different recorded than what your ear hears in a room even more so in the context of actual recorded group music. The hollow "tah" sound under the clear stick click with a well placed good microphone is very close in character to the ride it was modeled after the famous Tony Nefertiti ride to my ear having heard several rough mixes and playbacks.

In the large ensemble project setting yet again regardless of where you are in the room the clear click stick sound over a dark complex wash is heard right across the board. I've had a chance to actually hear this well having one of the drummers i'm teaching enrolled in the music program play the ride well I wander about the room with the large group full on playing. It's always there with no question in regards to the time and ride feel for everyone to hear and the acoustic blend is perfect.

Still a knockout jazz ride and i've noticed it's mellowed slightly already from lots of use and dynamic playing over the last few months.
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Last edited by Steamer; 08-18-2008 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

Oh man, I'm drooling all over the place.

That is a beautiful cymbal.
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

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Oh man, I'm drooling all over the place.

That is a beautiful cymbal.


Thanks dwsabianguy. She's a beauty for sure in more ways than one :}
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Old 10-25-2008, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Tasty Turkish Birthday Pie: 22" Epoch

Some new tasty pics to add this old thread.

Epoch 3055g :
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Last edited by Steamer; 01-26-2009 at 01:48 AM.
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