DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Heads and Sticks

Heads and Sticks Discuss Heads and Sticks

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 03-10-2008, 03:03 AM
Ironcobra's Avatar
Ironcobra Ironcobra is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,209
Default My Idea...Tell me what you think.

I don't know if this has been done before in the music industry, but bare with me.

Taking two ideas, A) a subwoofer produces a very different sound from a bass drum
B) the center of the bass drums reso head moves more then the other parts.

Keeping that in mind, picture a subwoofer, take out the flat area that moves and the flexible fabric (or rubber) between the subwoofer frame and the oscillating flat area.

Now picture taking that part of the subwoofer and inserting it into the center of a reso head, say 10 inches in diameter. By having this part of the subwoofer in place of the center of the head, what sounds my might come out of this? Would it allow for more movement without stretching the head? Would it produce frequencies that are more ideal for recording?

Before jumping out there and saying I'm crazy, just think about it. Movement of bass head + movement of subwoofer....who knows?

Heres a picture to illustrate my point. (this doesn't have to me a subwoofer, it can be anything that moves separately from the rest of the head,)
Attached Images
 
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-10-2008, 05:24 AM
bojangleman's Avatar
bojangleman bojangleman is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,840
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

i see what your saying about the movement being the same of the two..i would also like to know. but me, i would be a lil embarresed to be seen with a speaker in my drum head..haha..:p :) get some sort of grate over it, we'll talk...neat idea!

Alex
__________________
Band:
http://www.myspace.com/springloadedcomeback
Add Us!
CHRISTIAN DRUMMERS ARMY
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-10-2008, 06:07 AM
fourstringdrums
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

If you cut a hole in the center of the the reso head it's not going to move any more. Rigging up speaker in the center may cause it to vibrate a bit from the frequences coming from the speaker, but it's not going to do much to help the tone. You might as well just take off the front head and stick a speaker in front of it.

Yamaha already has the sub-kick which is like this except it just goes in front of the head, it doesn't affect the reso head at all.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-10-2008, 06:12 PM
Ironcobra's Avatar
Ironcobra Ironcobra is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,209
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

The odds are against me I know, but I can't let go of the idea that having that extra room to move in and out without all the tension of the head will do something. Do we have any sound engineers in the house?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-10-2008, 06:43 PM
Mediocrefunkybeat
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

It's been done. There was actually a member here who patented a similar design for his resonant heads. Plus you'd need at least a fifteen-inch speaker to produce a half-reasonable subwoofer effect. Ten inches just wouldn't cut it and by that point you're seriously affecting the tone of the drum; probably for the worse.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-10-2008, 07:30 PM
Ironcobra's Avatar
Ironcobra Ironcobra is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,209
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat View Post
It's been done. There was actually a member here who patented a similar design for his resonant heads.
If he patented it, It must have done something good?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-10-2008, 08:52 PM
harryconway's Avatar
harryconway harryconway is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pasadena, California, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,110
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

Just because an idea has a patent does not make it a "good idea". Basically, your whole reso. head is already suspended and moving, like a speaker cone. The thin mylar is much lighter than any 10 or 15 inch cone you've gonna install, so therefore it's going to be "more responsive" than the "cone". Remember, your reso. drumhead is an organic/acoustically driven membrane. A subwoofer is a powered unit that, without amplifier and crossover, frame and magnets is not going to drive anything anywhere.
__________________
This seat does not recline as per Federal Aviation Regulation 121.310 (f)(3)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-10-2008, 09:01 PM
Ironcobra's Avatar
Ironcobra Ironcobra is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,209
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Just because an idea has a patent does not make it a "good idea". Basically, your whole reso. head is already suspended and moving, like a speaker cone. The thin mylar is much lighter than any 10 or 15 inch cone you've gonna install, so therefore it's going to be "more responsive" than the "cone". Remember, your reso. drumhead is an organic/acoustically driven membrane. A subwoofer is a powered unit that, without amplifier and crossover, frame and magnets is not going to drive anything anywhere.
Point taken, but it doesn't have to be a subwoofer. Maybe just the same material as the rest of the head, exept with a ring of flexible material. I got the idea from this bass head...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ack?sku=449322

So imagine that the white material was flexible. It would allow the center to move as if the head were tuned low, but while keeping it solid when tuned tight. Am I chasing after a lost cause or is there even a slight amount of potential? If only I had rich parents, then maybe I would be able to produce a prototype.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-10-2008, 09:16 PM
fourstringdrums
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcobra View Post
Point taken, but it doesn't have to be a subwoofer. Maybe just the same material as the rest of the head, exept with a ring of flexible material. I got the idea from this bass head...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ack?sku=449322

So imagine that the white material was flexible. It would allow the center to move as if the head were tuned low, but while keeping it solid when tuned tight. Am I chasing after a lost cause or is there even a slight amount of potential? If only I had rich parents, then maybe I would be able to produce a prototype.
Well that Aquarian head is muffled where it is to control overtones in a different way, that's all.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-10-2008, 09:18 PM
Ironcobra's Avatar
Ironcobra Ironcobra is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,209
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourstringdrums View Post
Well that Aquarian head is muffled where it is to control overtones in a different way, that's all.
I just mean the look of it, how there is a ring, not the actual function of that particular head.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-10-2008, 09:18 PM
Ironcobra's Avatar
Ironcobra Ironcobra is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,209
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

OK I'll just forget about it.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-14-2008, 11:03 PM
KarlCrafton's Avatar
KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 4,394
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

I know you said you'd forget about it, but...

If you do anything to a drumhead, like change the center material, or cut it, and attach something, it's going to stop vibrating and sound dead.

The center of the head moves when the air hits it, but the outer areas vibrate and create more of the sound and overtones.

If the center air impact area is taken away, the vibrations have nowhere to go, and the sound just goes "out" like with a center hole.

And if you have some other material in the air impact area, it's not going to vibrate the head material very well because you have the spot around where you have to use glue or something to attach the "cone".

In your pic in the first post, you have a speaker attached to the head.

I assume you want to have it reverse wired so it acts like a microphone to pick up the sound of the bass drum?

In order to do that it must be a speaker attached to a head.

I don't think theres any film strong enough for to do that...and your bass drum might tip over too.

Now that would be funny to see.

A drumhead tensioned low would give you the deepest sound your going to get, and the head would be free to react, instead of the head vibration stopping at the 'cone' material area.

Then you could use a reversed wired speaker (or a ready made Yamaha Sub-Kick) and get the sound you are after.

Besides, Alex Van Halen already put giant speaker cones in his bass drums in 1982.

Now, how about THIS?

What if you had a reversed wired speaker the size of the drum shell, and the outside frame was drilled to handle tension rods, and had a bearing edge, like a Pearl Free Floater, with a drumhead attached?

If that was in in front of a bass drum shell, like a total bass drum mic, you could probably get that sound that makes people involuntarily crap their pants.

What do you think about that?!?

Now watch DW steal the idea and have it out by Christmas.

JK, but not really.
__________________
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood. Nobody!!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-15-2008, 12:11 AM
catlover's Avatar
catlover catlover is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: France
Posts: 52
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

Someone had the same idea one year ago...
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=15883
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-15-2008, 09:10 PM
Mushroom Cloud's Avatar
Mushroom Cloud Mushroom Cloud is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 91
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

I have been trying to develope this idea as well. I have a 21" speaker cone in my possession and I'm trying to figure out the best way to attach it.

Coneheads missed the mark completely. He holds a patent that will never be used. No one wants to clamp a piece of plywood to their beveled edges. ; )

Thunderheads are way closer to reaching the goal of a true passive radiator.

A 24' reso head sounds like a timbale compared to the low end my 12" bass cab speaker puts out when gently tapping with the meat your finger.

You also have to keep in mind that the cone takes away cu vol from the shell.

A dust cap is probably going to have trouble staying glued on after repeated hits.

There's reason you don't see speaker cones and surrounds as one unit. ; )
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-15-2008, 09:16 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,221
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Just because an idea has a patent does not make it a "good idea". Basically, your whole reso. head is already suspended and moving, like a speaker cone. The thin mylar is much lighter than any 10 or 15 inch cone you've gonna install, so therefore it's going to be "more responsive" than the "cone". Remember, your reso. drumhead is an organic/acoustically driven membrane. A subwoofer is a powered unit that, without amplifier and crossover, frame and magnets is not going to drive anything anywhere.
True. A drum head is much more responsive than a woofer cone. Also, the woofer cone was designed for vibrations to start at its center and move outward. If you stick it in a drum head, I think it would just dampen the head more than anything.

I think it looks hell of cool, however. I would like to see one and who knows, it might sound good. With a lot of these things you never know until you try.
__________________
Ironwood kit Tiki kit Openhanders Vids
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-17-2008, 10:02 PM
dea dea is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Everett
Posts: 351
Default Re: My Idea...Tell me what you think.

I may be iterating and my apologies if so..

I wouldn't forget about it... Just find a way to fix the speaker so that it is not attached in anyway to the drum head, or shell. This will allow for the air pressure alone to force the speaker into motion, as opposed to the vibrations caused by the rest of the head and shells.

Remember, a speaker in air will act differently than a speaker contained in a box where the back pressure is used to control the speaker movement. One could easily build a simple mdf box just like the Yamaha rig, but not as pretty. Just make the box dimensions taller than wider so the speaker can be high enough to capture all of what the head has to offer.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com