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  #1  
Old 03-07-2008, 07:42 PM
Bruce M. Thomson's Avatar
Bruce M. Thomson Bruce M. Thomson is offline
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Default You just never know

This is more of an observation than a thread and it has something to do with the various questions asked about tuning and heads etc. I purchased a Black Panther Deep Forest Walnut 6.5 snare and got a great deal on it off of eBay, it is brand new and with prices still rather high here in Canada I couldn't resist ($350 compared to $500). It is a great looking drum and well built and I knew that it would have a unique sound but had not actually auditioned it; after all with a name like Deep Forest it Co notated a certain quality. I have been having a heck of time finding the right head for it, it is very harmonic and that's good, I put an Evans reverse dot and a hazy 300 on it and it just didn't seem to do it, I wanted a fatter sound, e-rings help but that defeats the purpose of a fine drum I think, so I switched again putting the Evans on my basic Sonor maple snare, going price, $169.00. The Sonor sounds great but what to do about the Panther, I put a Remo fibre skin on just so it wouldn't be bare and I had one kicking around any way but not much difference in the tone , I study the tuning bible and take my time with that aspect and I'm preety sure I'm doing it right so I guess it is a very finicky snare. I am not slagging it at all, I want it to work for me because it has a lot of nice features and lets face it, it looks real good especially with the wood hoops on it. The point of this is that the less expensive snare with the right head has the tone and feel I like and that makes for a happy drummer, expense isn't every thing and heads and tuning can go either way so for the drummers out there who think they need to spend big dough be mindful that you may not have to. Mind you if I had spent $1700 I probably wouldn't be writing this. Right? If there are any suggestions from drummers who own the Walnut Panther I will be grateful especially since if I keep going the good deal I got will be eaten up by the constant experimenting with new heads which sell for around $23 and more up here and if it adss another $150 in expenses then I probably would have stepped up to a higher standard but I wanted to stay within a certain budget.
Thanks to all of the folks who keep this forum up and running, I am always learning something new as there are so many different points of veiw which is a great resource.

Cheers

Last edited by Bruce M. Thomson; 03-07-2008 at 08:43 PM. Reason: changed tone
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  #2  
Old 03-07-2008, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: You just never know

I have a 13x6.5 blonde birdseye maple black panther w/ Remo Ambassador w/ stock reso and It sounds great maybe you should try one... I do need new reso and I bet it will sound even better.
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  #3  
Old 03-07-2008, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: You just never know

I have not heard walnut, but are you trying to make walnut sound like maple? Maybe it won't no matter what heads you use.
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  #4  
Old 03-07-2008, 09:10 PM
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Bruce M. Thomson Bruce M. Thomson is offline
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Default Re: You just never know

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
I have not heard walnut, but are you trying to make walnut sound like maple? Maybe it won't no matter what heads you use.
Good point, walnut is not going to give you that maple sound it is meant to be different in it's colouring as well as have a harmonic tone but I just thought at 6.5 it wood be richer in its performance. When I crank up the heads it could almost be an effects snare, but I'm sure there is a way and I'm hopeful I won't have to give up feel for tone. Maybe I'm asking for too much, the Evans Genera Dry would be the right idea except for the loss of feel, plus they need changing quite a bit. I have only had experience with Evans and Remo, perhaps I'm missing what I'm looking for in another brand name, so something like the Genera Dry but with some snap (The reverse dot did not do it)

Thanks
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Old 03-07-2008, 09:17 PM
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Bruce M. Thomson Bruce M. Thomson is offline
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Default Re: You just never know

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayp View Post
I have a 13x6.5 blonde birdseye maple black panther w/ Remo Ambassador w/ stock reso and It sounds great maybe you should try one... I do need new reso and I bet it will sound even better.
I know what you mean, we look for the fix in something exotic rather than the basics but it came with stock Remo. I approached Mapex and got an answer, sort of. They wouldn't go out on a limb and recommend a particular head even though I asked the rep to tell me what they put on it when they want to show it off, all I got was use E-Rings, Gels etc. etc. Any way I was just curious because walnut is not going to follow the same rules as maple.
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Old 03-07-2008, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: You just never know

Although I am not sure what sound you are trying to achieve I have had very good success uning Bob Gatzens technique in tuning and head selection. I also own a black panther but not the Walnut model. I am using an Evans G1 on the batter and a hazy 300 on the snare side along with Puresound 22 strand snarewires. I tuned the snare head to an "A" pitch and the batter head to a "C". The sound is right on with just the right amount of resonance and snap. Of course I realize you have been having your time of it so I hope this helps a little. Then again, you could already have your own unique sound that may set you apart from the crowd and not even realize it.! Good luck!
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  #7  
Old 03-07-2008, 09:58 PM
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Bruce M. Thomson Bruce M. Thomson is offline
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Default Re: You just never know

Thanks for your response. I appears to me that Walnut is very unique and perhaps it requires something that has not been made yet since Maple is the pre-dominate choice. I think I will ask the various head manufactures and see what response I get from them. Until then I guess it's back to Sonor. This has sort of inadvertently turned into a thumbs up for Sonor in a way hasn't it considering the price range of the 3007
Thanks again. Hoping you have a safe and happy weekend.
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  #8  
Old 03-07-2008, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: You just never know

I personally love the sound of Amabassador heads on a snare, but I dislike too much in the way of overtones. It's always been tough to find that sweet-spot in the deadening of the head to keep it sort of dry, but not dead.

I came across the Remo Renaissance heads.. they offer a Ambassador model, RA, or an Emperor model, RE. I use the RA's now.. Not as dry as a Fyberskin, not as ringy as an Ambassador.. Very good live. All the drummers I know here have said they love the sound and a couple have begun using them.. You may want to give em a go.

When I picked up my 13" edge, I had a dickens of a time tuning it.. I could get a good sound out of it easilly enough, but I wanted a really great sound.. It just took me some time to learn the snare. You just have to be more stubborn than the drum.

Good luck!
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2008, 10:02 PM
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Bruce M. Thomson Bruce M. Thomson is offline
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Default Re: You just never know

Quote:
Originally Posted by stillgroovin View Post
Although I am not sure what sound you are trying to achieve I have had very good success uning Bob Gatzens technique in tuning and head selection. I also own a black panther but not the Walnut model. I am using an Evans G1 on the batter and a hazy 300 on the snare side along with Puresound 22 strand snarewires. I tuned the snare head to an "A" pitch and the batter head to a "C". The sound is right on with just the right amount of resonance and snap. Of course I realize you have been having your time of it so I hope this helps a little. Then again, you could already have your own unique sound that may set you apart from the crowd and not even realize it.! Good luck!
I like that, you very well may be on the right track. I could be obsessing when in fact I should just be "Rolling when in doubt"
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2008, 10:05 PM
Bruce M. Thomson's Avatar
Bruce M. Thomson Bruce M. Thomson is offline
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Default Re: You just never know

Quote:
Originally Posted by danander11 View Post
I personally love the sound of Amabassador heads on a snare, but I dislike too much in the way of overtones. It's always been tough to find that sweet-spot in the deadening of the head to keep it sort of dry, but not dead.

I came across the Remo Renaissance heads.. they offer a Ambassador model, RA, or an Emperor model, RE. I use the RA's now.. Not as dry as a Fyberskin, not as ringy as an Ambassador.. Very good live. All the drummers I know here have said they love the sound and a couple have begun using them.. You may want to give em a go.

When I picked up my 13" edge, I had a dickens of a time tuning it.. I could get a good sound out of it easilly enough, but I wanted a really great sound.. It just took me some time to learn the snare. You just have to be more stubborn than the drum.

Good luck!
Thanks, I will defiantly check into those. Maybe I should spend the money on various types of heads and then if any one else has the same problem with walnut I may very well have the answer.
Thanks
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  #11  
Old 03-08-2008, 07:20 PM
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Bruce M. Thomson Bruce M. Thomson is offline
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Default Re: You just never know

Just wanted to follow up, I tired the Evans EC-1 and it wasn't right so I was able to exchange it for the Genera HD and that seems to do the trick. Next time I will check out the Remo's, I guess I don't mind spending the money to experiment after all, in fact it's fun.

Thanks again for your advice.
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  #12  
Old 03-10-2008, 04:15 PM
Paul Quin Paul Quin is offline
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Default Re: You just never know

Bruce:

great avatar! I wonder how many folks who post here even know who that is! I do not own any walnut drums and I never have - I have, however, owned a Black Panther or two over the years. Snare heads are a different issue for me than other heads. I have played evans heads on my bass drum and toms for more than 25 years (with about a two year aquarian hiatus) but I have gone round and round with snare heads usually ending back at the coated ambassador or the powerstroke 3. Because walnut is a hard wood and sings louder than maple yet maintains that organic tone it presents a problem. I would try contacting Roy Burns at Aquarian and asking his advice. I have tried many aquarian heads and found them to be a quality product. Its customer service is outstanding and Roy is a very approachable guy. You can contact Roy through the Aquarian website.

Paul
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