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  #1  
Old 02-26-2008, 11:54 AM
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tiffanyl tiffanyl is offline
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Default Frustration with remo CS head!!

Hello everybody, I'm somewhat of a newbie here. I mostly read and don't post haha.

Anyway, I have a problem with my bass head, I was hoping someone who's used this head before, could offer me some advice. Bear with me.

1) Today I decided I would replace my pearl stock bass drum head with a Remo control sound black dot. I tuned it up as best I could and played it, it had a loud, boomy sound but it also had a ring that went on forever. I dampened it by putting a pillow inside (touching resonant head only) but still there wasn't a single, definite thump or boom when the beater hit it, it was more of a booooooooooom.

I tried to get the bass drum off the floor as much as possible, still no luck. After trying for about AN HOUR (you can imagine the frustration) to make it sound decent, I gave up and put the pearl head back on. Can anybody explain why the remo cs head would give off a rather long ring?? Is it bad tuning or a bad head?

2) Now that the pearl head is back on, when the beater hits it, no matter how much control I put on my foot, the beater keeps bouncing back onto the skin, making one hit sound like one and a half hits. So instead of a thump, it goes thump-ump. Especially when I play quick double strokes. Does anybody know what I mean? And how can I rectify this problem? Is it the spring tension on the pedal?


I really don't want to buy a new bass head because the Remo CS black dot is brand new. Any help/tips/advice/suggestions????

THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!
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  #2  
Old 02-26-2008, 11:59 AM
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NIMBY NIMBY is offline
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Default Re: Frustration with remo CS head!!

sounds to me like its a case of the beater bounce, do you have a hole in the reso skin?
if not, that will fix it and also lessen the ring of the drum, making it more a thump than boom.
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2008, 12:20 PM
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tiffanyl tiffanyl is offline
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Default Re: Frustration with remo CS head!!

No I don't, do you think a port hole would really help?? Or would changing to a felt beater muffle the sound?

Do you think maybe it's supposed to be a resonant head or something?

Thanks for your input
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  #4  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: Frustration with remo CS head!!

I have no experience with this head but too much sustain can be reduced by adding a little more damping - perhaps you're not using enough. Also, try and crank up your resonant head to get more attack out of the drum - this should also shorten the sustain somewhat or at least make dampening easier. And a porthole will help indeed.
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  #5  
Old 02-26-2008, 04:09 PM
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autonomos autonomos is offline
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Default Re: Frustration with remo CS head!!

1. Dampen the BATTER head instead of the reso head. Try this first.

2. A hole in the front will help the air escape faster which will make the drum less "bouncy" feeling and less "boomy" sounding, lets you get into the drum to adjust muffling, and makes it easier to stick a mic in there (closer to the batter for more attack, further away for more resonance). A small hole = more resonance from front head as opposed to a larger hole = less resonance. Likewise off center = more resonance as opposed to center = less resonance.
Because of this the best compromise is often a small hole, off center.

PS-
The remo CS is intended for batter purposes, not really bottom. It's pretty much an ambassador with a dot laminated to the center. The dot is said to increase durability and slightly dampen overtones (CS stands for controlled sound). It's not as common on bass drums as it may have been in the 70s. There are more heads now a days specifically designed for BD. It's still usable though and you should be able to get a decent sound.

Last edited by autonomos; 02-26-2008 at 04:20 PM.
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  #6  
Old 02-27-2008, 07:28 PM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: Frustration with remo CS head!!

The Dot controls the higher registers of the "ring".

That makes the mid and low tones come through more, so you notice the deeper ooooom part of the note.

The Black Dot is a great bass drum head, and can sound really good.

In order to tighten up your sound and get more "thump"....

Try a felt strip toward the bottom section of the head, or a rolled muffle against the head on the outside like this:





The rolled muffle will probably be easier to use to control your "ring problem" and will definitely get a thump and shorter sound.

To avoid bounce, just play with the tension front and back.

To get a great sound out of your bass drum--one that's "just right" for you, is going to take a little effort--but it's worth it.

An hour tuning & experimenting to get the sound you're after isn't a crazy amount of time IMO.

Unless you use a pre-muffled head, you can't expect to just slap the thing on and it's ready to go.

The muffled heads can get a thud sound quick, but there's no life to it, so you might as well save money, play a $10 bass drum and put an Emad or something on it instead of having a real nice drum (and sound). Hey, it's JMO... if people dig that Emad and other heads like that, cool.

Anyway, a little bit of tone, is good in my book.
It gets 'soaked up' in with the music anyway, and it gives your bass drum more presence in the sound of the band (IME).

Depending on what your playing situation is (play at home only, play out...) you can put in a hole--or not--it's up to you.

A small hole, like a 4" (off center) will keep more front head sound, it'll tighten the sound a bit, and will let air out--which will lessen the "bounce back".

To avoid any bounce back, you can adjust your foot technique and play "off" the head, instead of leaving it on the head between strokes.

Playing off the head gets a fuller sound too.

That doesn't mean a longer sound or "note", just a sound that utilizes the full sound of the drum, instead of cutting it off by leaving it on the head.

Also, if the beater is stuck there between strikes (probably pushing the head in a little), the tone is going to go up in pitch after the strike.

It might not be totally noticeable playing with the band, but take the kick away from the rest of the kit, and see what it sounds like.

That's the best way to tune it up anyway--on it's own.

Then when you put it back, you can fine tune it as needed to sound great in total with the rest of your stuff.

Hope this can help.
Good luck with your bass drum and that CS head, they can sound great.
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2008, 10:33 AM
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tiffanyl tiffanyl is offline
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Default Re: Frustration with remo CS head!!

wihaz and big philly-
Thanks for your advice and suggestions, i'm really considering using the hot can method to put a hole in my reso. i'll probably tune the BD again and put the hole in this weekend.

karlcrafton-
Thank you for your input plus the pictures and everything! I thought the CS black dot would be good for the BD when i got it so i'll try tuning it up again and i'll try your muffling method. I actually only play home but i think the port hole would be a good idea. yeah an hour isn't really that long i guess, its just the hassle of tuning, standing it up to test it, and putting it back flat to tune it differently again.

By the way, do you do fine tuning with your bass drum standing (playing position) or flat on the floor?

Thanks again everyone, i appreciate it!
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2008, 04:58 PM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: Frustration with remo CS head!!

Put the head on when it's flat and do a preliminary tuning to get thins kind of where you think you want it.

While the kick is away from the rest of the set, put it in playing position and do your adjusting, but have the pedal on the drum and hit it while you are tweeking.

That way if you hear something, you can just stand up and reach over and tweek a lug.

You can't expect it to sound right without hitting it and tuning at the same time.
It's not going to work, you have to play it, and adjust your tension as you go.

Also, don't worry about each lug being exactly the same.

If it sounds good with one or two lugs different than the rest, so be it.

You have to go with the sound of the drum, and your ears.
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2008, 05:46 PM
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Mendozart Mendozart is offline
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Default Re: Frustration with remo CS head!!

Hey Karl,
I tried your muffling methods and they work out pretty well. Thanks for posting all your tips.
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2008, 09:35 PM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: Frustration with remo CS head!!

No problem, glad it worked for you!
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  #11  
Old 03-06-2008, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Frustration with remo CS head!!

tiffanyl, the stock Pearl bass drum heads are constructed like Remo PS3s--a 1-ply head with a perimeter control ring. The CS head you tried has a center dot, no control ring. That's probably why it rang for much longer than the Pearl.

Alas, the Pearl version is not nearly as good as a real PS3. The PS3 will tune lower and with fewer overtones. I use them front and rear with no port and nothing in the drum. My philosophy is to use slightly muffled heads on the bass drum and avoid using pillows, towels and whatnot, which tend to kill tone as well as sustain.

Try also tuning the reso just above wrinkle and the batter slightly higher, where it just begins to have a real tone.
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