Lighter Jazz Hi Hats

[Bossa Nova]

I am currently playing acoustic jazz with a pair of 14" K Hi-Hats. These are a great set of hats, but are just too loud for my needs. I like a nice strong chick, but I am forced to set the hats about an eighth of an inch apart or else they just get painfully loud. This creates buzzing and really what I need is a pair of lighter, jazz friendly hats.

I am not attached to any one brand and I am somewhat limited by what is available at the local stores to play on. I am interested in the 14" K Constantinople hats, as ZIldjian lists them as the lightest, darkest they make, which is what I am looking for. I also like their sound clips on cymbalsonly.com. Does anyone have any experience with these hi hats?

I am interested in Istanbul, as I know they are very jazz friendly, but I don't know much about their line, and I don't know anyone around here that sells them.

Anyone's opinion on my search would be appreciated. To whomever is going to write in telling me to go and play everthing I can find at the music store, I am currently doing just that, but I am also interested in the opinions of the drummers on this forum as I make my decision, especially if there are a pair of hats that I should be on the lookout for.

[aydee]

Istanbuls are great & the man for the dope on them on the forum is Steamer, but as an owner of 3 sets of high-hat cymbals, all of which I use in different musical situations, the A Custom 13"s work really well for me with a jazzy sound. The 'chick' is clear light and crisp, and it also has body to the sound without getting clunky or too heavy.

[Steamer]

For light jazz hats from Istanbul Agop my 3 picks would be a lightweight pair of Special Edition {SE} Jazz hats or a lightweight pair of Agop Signature hats or Mel Lewis series hats. Actually my medium weight Agop 14" signature hats {1025g-top 1200g-bottom} have more of a crisper defined foot and more meat to the bone character to their sound for my tastes sounding wonderful in a acoustic jazz setting. Dark,crisp and trashy with a very nice mix of pleasing overtones being my favorite jazz hats PERIOD i've ever come across.

Lots of soundfiles here to check out of various Agop hats:

http://www.cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/agop/agop.htm

Good luck with the hunt!

[GRUNTERSDAD]

I have a pair of 13 inch Masterwork, JazzSeries hats that I find great for light settings.

[Snowdogyyz]

I would also recommend some Mel Lewis hats (made by Istanbul AGOP) for light jazz settings. The Mel Lewis is an excellent line to check out for rides, hats, and crashes. I have a riveted 21" Mel Lewis ride that I love. Anyway, another source for these is:

http://www.thecymbalshop.com/shop/home.php

and, he's not far from you... central NC. Good luck!

[gretsch223]

the k constantinoples are really great...I am currently using bosphorus masters (14") and I love them. I used to have the same problem with using A New Beats. The bosphorus masters are very light and fit well with acoustic jazz. I bought the masters for $220..They are incredibly similar to the constantinoples but over $200 less. I would check out all bosphorus and all istanbul....Also the K Custom Special Dry Hats, K lights, and k custom darks are nice.

Although I am not a Jazz player I do play some and had a similar problem with my Hats, I had Zildjian K-Custom 14" and gave them to our church (they really didnt fit my taste) I also have Zildjian New Beats on my remote hat stand and just recently bought Bosphorous Hammer as my main Hats all 14". The Bosphorous are beautiful and will fit in Jazz and all types of music what I did notice was when I really loosened the top hat I was able to get a much nicer chic sound , I dont know how much you played with adjustments but may make a huge difference in sound that you may really enjoy, the Bosphorous are my new Favorites and all my other Cymbals are Zildjian K & A. Sorry for the long post, hope this may help.

Rick

[Jazz]

If I had had some money I'd pick a pair of Dream Bliss(es)

[pasta]

I have a set of 12" Bosphorus turks that sound great. Zildjian K/Z 13" hats are nice too.
I would also recommend checking out the Dream Bliss, especially for the price.

[fooleeze]

My opinion is that some of the best hats out there for Jazz are a pair made by Johan VDS. His lighter jazz hats are superb in every way. Those are by far my first choice. If those are not in your budget, then my second favorite are a tie between Bosphorus Masters (a lighter pair), or some vintage 14" or 15" Zildjan As (like 1950s or 1960s, again a lighter pair). And if those still aren't in your budget, then a lot of drummers have been very happy with the Dream Bliss hats for jazz use.

Good luck in your search!

[KCDrummer]

I'd go with Bosphorus Traditional series or Masters series. The Masters are a little darker and I guess trashier, but both are great for jazz--washy, sizzly, not too loud.

[Bossa Nova]

Originally Posted by fooleeze

My opinion is that some of the best hats out there for Jazz are a pair made by Johan VDS. His lighter jazz hats are superb in every way. Those are by far my first choice. If those are not in your budget, then my second favorite are a tie between Bosphorus Masters (a lighter pair), or some vintage 14" or 15" Zildjan As (like 1950s or 1960s, again a lighter pair). And if those still aren't in your budget, then a lot of drummers have been very happy with the Dream Bliss hats for jazz use.

Good luck in your search!

My budget is not really an issue. I want to buy a main pair of hats that I will use for a long time. Where would I get/hear a clip of these Johan VDS hats?

Do most people that buy Istanbul cymbals buy them off of a website like cymbalsonly.com and just trust the sound clip? There's nowhere nearby that sells Istanbuls.

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by Bossa Nova

Do most people that buy Istanbul cymbals buy them off of a website like cymbalsonly.com and just trust the sound clip? There's nowhere nearby that sells Istanbuls.

Bought all mine at the local Canadian Agop distributors location being an endorser but used all available online soundfiles of Agop cymbals from these main 3 sources i've found to narrow down my picks before hand selecting similar choices I had in mind in person :

http://www.cymbalcellar.com/

http://www.thecymbalshop.com/shop/home.php

http://www.cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/agop/agop.htm


Many are fine to select from online dealers and all 3 listed have good quality soundfiles for each item they are selling. Good luck with your choice.

[joeybeats]

I bought my Instanbul Mel Lewis from Professional Drum Shop in LA. Stan the owner sent me two to pick from, after he narrowed it down to those. He also sent me a Erskine Left Side to compare it to. Though he didn't really have anything to worry about as he had my credit card number from when I bought my DW's, you can't really expect much better service than that. Highly recommended for your consideration.
http://www.prodrumshop.com/

Speaking of Johan's cymbals, I've never seen anything but raves for his stuff ... in every forum on the net ... 100%. Send him an email and ask if he'll turn your K's into fabulous thin HH's. He can do wonders from what I've heard in his soundfiles. http://johancymbals.fr.nf/ If you haven't read the sticky thread he started above, it is worth the time ... you will be sold on his stuff. http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10636

Anyway, I have 14" k-con HH's and have never been satisfied with the sound. However, lately they are growing on me. If they weren't, I'd suggest we do a trade, Bossa!
The problem to me is, a guess here, that I have listened to too many jazz classics and have become used to the great sound in the chick, but these are just too soft and mushy. At least from where I am sitting. I miss that sound I have in my head. Reason to buy more I suppose. Fun looking and listening every time I walk into a shop anyway, no big deal.
Whatever you buy, have fun with the process. Joey

[fooleeze]

Bossa Nova, if you want to check out some Johan hats, then by all means, contact him and visit his site that joeybeats linked above. http://johancymbals.fr.nf Or just email him at mal(dot)leus(at)yahoo(dot)com

I have only 1 pair of his hats on my site, they're a good medium-thin pair made from B20 cymbals. http://www.cymbalcellar.com/catalogd...php?cymbid=375

I've sold a few more pairs of his hats, here is a look at them (don't try to order them, they're already gone. The soundfile for the 1st one is still there, the other two are already gone)

http://www.cymbalcellar.com/catalogd...php?cymbid=189
http://www.cymbalcellar.com/catalogd...php?cymbid=190
http://www.cymbalcellar.com/catalogd...php?cymbid=194

If you want something specifically catered to your needs, then contact him and he will take care of you. As joeybeats said, you can send your hats to him and he'll 're-create' them, or he may have some 'blanks' that he use on hand already. Just talk to him.

My personal pair of hats are Johans, and I stand by what I said, I think he makes the best jazz hats available.

[Steamer]

Well as they say personal opinion plays into favorites including my own personal favorite a pair of medium weight Agop Signature hats. After 30 years or so of searching my Agop Signatures are the best hats i've ever heard for an acoustic jazz setting or as i've recently discovered best sounding for my taste for their recorded sound in the studio in a group setting well working on a current recording project. All other ones that came close over the years have all been sold. Comes down to a certain sound,character and response being a very subjective thing on what's "best" based on many personal likes and dislikes well narrowing down a personal favorite for each individual player. I know what my BEST hats are without a doubt in my mind so take your time and go find your keeper pair Bossa Nova. Listen to everything available online and decide what floats your personal boat

[Drummer Karl]

I have to say that I`m well impressed by Dream cymbals, particulary the Bliss line...amazing what you get for this price. Their Bliss hats are light, very finely lathed and hand hammered...made from b20 bronze of course.
If you wanna check out some sounds and pics or wanna read more about em, you can look here for example:

http://www.frontrangebronze.com/articles/Bliss.html
http://www.frontrangebronze.com/articles/inventory.html

Though my favourite sound I´ve found with Istanbul Agop...I can highly recommend cymbalsonly. Tony`s service is great and he gives you a great idea what the different lines and cymbals sound like!
I`ve got a light pair of Agop Turk hats 14" from him. Those are unlathed, they have a stronger chick than Traditionals for example but I wouldn`t consider them as loud or overpowering. Dark vibe, dry...dark overtones.

http://www.cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/agop/agop.htm

btw, here are two pics of mine...




Karl

[Steamer]

Nice hats Karl. The Turks were on my short list testing out various Agop hats last Summer. The Agop med. weight Signatures won out but that's just a personal taste thing like I mentioned in my last post in this thread having captured a certain sound character I was after. All is good just have to find what suits each player for "best" hats.

[Bossa Nova]

I've been spending alot of time checking out the Istanbul and Bospherus hats on cymbalsonly.com. The sound files are awesome, but they are all basically at the same volume, whereas, I'm sure in person, there is some varience. Are the weights of the cymbals a pretty accurate measurement of how loud the cymbals will be in person, aka the less weight in grams, the lower the volume?

For example, with these two different sets of hats:

14” Agop Signature: 800/900
14” Agop Turk: 950/980

...is it a pretty fair assumption that the Turks are louder than the Signatures?

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by Bossa Nova

I've been spending alot of time checking out the Istanbul and Bospherus hats on cymbalsonly.com. The sound files are awesome, but they are all basically at the same volume, whereas, I'm sure in person, there is some varience. Are the weights of the cymbals a pretty accurate measurement of how loud the cymbals will be in person, aka the less weight in grams, the lower the volume?

For example, with these two different sets of hats:

14” Agop Signature: 800/900
14” Agop Turk: 950/980

...is it a pretty fair assumption that the Turks are louder than the Signatures?

I would not say louder just different in character first off. Both the Turks and Sigs are very different in their general character with the Turk sounding more raw,pretty smokey with less sizzle in the mix than the Sigs. Both are good just different at those similar weights. At that comparitive weight of hats the Sigs will sound softer and more refined than the similar weight Turks being the most noticable difference off the top of my head.

I personally liked the heavier pair {1025g-top 1200g-bottom}. of Sigs when testing several pairs for a couple of reasons. First off more depth and body of tone followed by a more defined crisp chip foot closing sound and more sizzle and trash with the heavier pair. The light pairs of Sigs I tried during testing were much softer in general character and did not have the fully present dark crisp foot closing sound I was after. The closed/open stick sound was much different too on the heavier pair being more defined in character for my taste with a dark semi-nasty sizzle going on. For me it was not so much a volume issue more of a overall character issue that drew my ears to the heavier Sigs for an acoustic jazz setting. Unfortunately most online dealers don't cover this weight range of Sigs so that's a bit of a drawback for online purchasers to both hear or buy.

[matei_the_drummer]

hey dude, have you thought about the new K lights?they sound really nice on the zildjian site?also maybee if you went down to 13'' it maybee more of the sound you are looking for. Matt

[Bossa Nova]

Originally Posted by matei_the_drummer

hey dude, have you thought about the new K lights?they sound really nice on the zildjian site?also maybee if you went down to 13'' it maybee more of the sound you are looking for. Matt

I tried the K Lights and the store. They were nice, but I wasn't in love with them or anything. I've thought about going down to a 13", but alot of the 13"s that I try aren't very dynamic, just kind of clicky...

[matei_the_drummer]

ahh well i tried, im sure ul find something man. good luck