THE TRADITIONAL GRIP THREAD

[Pratt]

hi folks!

I believe this is a very sutile technical question, and a good subject to discuss with you all, so here it goes:

where would you claim to be the fulcrum for traditional grip? and why?

[hotsauce3n]

Originally Posted by Pratt

hi folks!

I believe this is a very sutile technical question, and a good subject to discuss with you all, so here it goes:

where would you claim to be the fulcrum for traditional grip? and why?

Take the stick and place it between your thumb and index finger and turn from your wrist, that is your fulcrum. I thought Jack DeJohnnette gives a pretty good explanation of the fulcrum in one of his videos... i'll get back to you on that

[Pratt]

this subject came most recently to my mind after I watched one of that famularo´s lesson in wich he shows that exercise with the right hand bounceing the left stick, wich I think it may lead us to confuse the stick resting point with the fulcrum/balance point.

I believe that the fulcrum should be located exactly under the first articulation of the index finger, assuming that we are properly holding the stick. fisicaly, if we just take a look, the fulcrum for both grips will be the same in order to achieve the best bounce control possible.

so, where I want to get to is that the fulcrum is not only related to what fingers or hand section the stick is resting, but also to what point along the stick body we choose to rest the fingers. we may have perfect grip posture, but if the spot on the stick is not fisicaly correct, one of these two: or we´ll be not taking the full advantage out of the fulcrum, or there´s no fulcrum at all!

[max999]

hey, ive recently decided id like to switch to traditional grip instead of matched. I thought it might be a good idea to learn a different way of playing and also to mabee give my playing a better sound seeing as ive switched to playing funk and a bit of jazz lately. i also found that tradtional seemed more comfortable to me even though ive used matched since i began playing, although i cant go nearly as fast with traditional since i have just begun using it. My question is just if switching would be worth it because i would have to go through all the rudiments slower to build up my playing with trad grip. Soo anyway just wondering what the advantages of the grip are also how long it will take me to become fluent using traditional.

[Breadmonkey]

Am doing the exact same so i'm interested to hear what people have to say

[Mario Vincent]

check out the traditional vs. matched thread...

I'm thinking about doing the same, I like to play traditional and when I practice on a pad I always use it but I always play matched on a set cause I need the power in my playing, and I’m obviously better at it... but besides the fact that’s its fun its important to your versatility so even if you don’t "switch," good skill to have...

The basic rule when developing your weaker side is to practice 3 to 5 times the amount you would on the opposite limb.

With traditonal grip, you have added finger motions and a your thumb can come more into play in moving the stick.

It takes more attention to the motion because the turn of the wrist is not as free as with matched and it takes some time to develope but it has it's advantages especially for jazz.

Develope both.

[hotsauce3n]

There is another forum on this you should search, but i think that the traditional grip provides a different dynamic, some what softer, and i think it can be smoother once it is worked out.
better for jazz, funk, fusion, marching music.

Match grip is much better playing for power playing and rock which has much more equality and a louder dynamic.

[max999]

Ok thanks alot thats good stuff but one thing i forgot which is really improtant, do you use the same muscles that you use in matched in trad grip as well?

[liquid metal smith]

I'm wondering what other drummers think of this.

Recent I started working out with a personal trainer who called my attention to all sorts of issues with my posture. I've been doing some rehab-style exercises in the gym and have tried to carry the lessons I've absorbed there over to my drumming.

Problem: traditional grip. Watching myself in the mirror I was noticing that my left shoulder dips significantly, causing my body to be out of alignment. Obviously, I was trying to position both hands at the same level for consistency purposes. This was also causing me to draw my left ebow into my body.

It was clear that something had to give: I wanted symmetrical posture with traditional grip. A lot of drummers slant their snare drums like military sling drums to accomplish that feat, but I'm totally unwilling to do that because I want to be able to switch back and forth between traditional and matched during a single song as suits my purposes. Besides, if Jeff Watts, Weckl, Vinnie, Smitty Smith and everyone else can play traditional on a flat snare drum, so can I, right?

So I'm left with one thing: hands at different levels. In order to keep my shoulders even and both elbows an inch away from my body, I had to bring my left hand up and rotate my wrist so that I'm looking at the "crotch" of my thumb, instead of the flat-side (experienced TGers will know what I'm talking about). Now the stick comes down at a more severe angle to the drum.

So, I'm having to "re-learn" to play with my hand at this new angle. Wondering if anyone has any thoughts....

[rjvsmb]

Hey liquid,

There are thee guys you can look at who use the tradition grip: Dave Weckl, Steve Gadd and Steve Smith. The one common thing they all have is the height of the snare drum.

They all set their snares relatively high (about at or just below their belly button) so they don't have to dip their left shoulder or reach down with their left hand. The other benefit of a high snare is keeps you in better posture and movement around the kit a lot easier.

Weckl and Gadd position their snares at an angle with a front down, back up angle rather than a side tilt. This seems to allow them to use both traditional and matched grip.

As for Steve Smith, he has a slight side tilt, but it's not so extreme that he has to use a funky arm position to use a matched grip. I believe it's his snare height that allows him to move between the two grips and maintain good posture.

I hope this makes sense and gives you some options.

rjvsmb

[Garvin]

Great thread. I just started playing traditional grip and am coping with this deficiency rather slowly. I love the idea of raising the snare drum. That clinches it, I'm finally gonna get myself a new snare stand. Mine's been stripped for the last year and a half and I haven't been able to raise it at all. What an epiphany thanks rjvsmd!!

[J0llyhunter]

i actually raised my arm too, because it seemed to make more sense that way. i know what you are talking about, it is kinda hard to play with that angle, but i sorta adjust my hand to get the ebst of both worlds

[raf_v]

is it normal when you are learning to play the traditional grip and when you are playing for an hour that your firts finger hurts ?

[finnhiggins]

Originally Posted by raf_v

is it normal when you are learning to play the traditional grip and when you are playing for an hour that your firts finger hurts ?

No. Pain is bad.

................................(20 characters)

[NouveauCliche]

Originally Posted by finnhiggins

No. Pain is bad.

................................(20 characters)

Finn's right...any pain you feel is bad and is typically caused by some lack of technique/improper grip, etc. Spend a couple minutes doing some singles with your left hand and seeing exactly what the stick is doing in your hand. Spend a while trying to adjust your grip until it feels comfortable. If you find that you're exerting too much stress on your first finger, loosen up a bit and use a more moeller-esque whipping motion with your stick and see if you like how that feels. It's funny that you mention your finger hurting...whenever I play traditional for more than like 3-4 hours (on a gig) the only part of my hand that's sore is my thumb...just goes to show ya, everyone hold their sticks a little differently!

[Mckinney]

hi, i play matched grip and am trying to do some more traditional stuff, but i cant seem to master it with my left hand (o ya im right handed). So my question is, is there any advantages or disadvantages to haveing it played with your right hand instead of your left? And could some please tell me why everyone uses it in there left hand? Thanks a bunch.

[ak_]

Well...I'll start off with why everyone plays traditional with their left hand.

See back a little while ago, everyone who played snare did so on a sling, (today many still play with slings as opposed to harneses) but yeah...what a sling did is it tilted your drum so the left part of the drum was higher than the right part of the drum. The playing surface wasn't flat...and so matched grip was awkard and funny looking to try to play with, so someone decided to flip the left stick around so the drum was easier to play. POOF! The invention of the traditional grip.

Ummm....i would say play it with your left hand. One major foreseeable disadvantage to playing trad with your right stick is that everytime someone watches you play your gonna get crap for playin all weird. If you ever go to a jazz fest and have to play in front of famous drum judges...then, well...you're gonna feel REALLY REALLY stupid. so there's that! Also...yes it's hard to get used to, but through consisitent practice and proper technique you'll get it in no time. Definently use your left stick for traditional grip. AND if you keep trying and it doesn't work, evaluate why you're trying to learn traditional instead of matched. Matched is just as accepted a grip as traditional...(if you need it for drumline purposes I understand..but then you wouldn't be allowed to play right handed trad anyway!!!!) Trust me, keep working on it....you'll get it.

I hope this helps.

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

Billy Cobham plays traditional with both hands, looks very cool. But that is not something I would think of adopting for myself....

[k3ng]

I've practiced up to a level where I can play matched, left trad, right trad, or both trad (The best of these for me being left trad, since I'm right handed).

I'd say right trad would look cooL, no?! Unique =P

Just practice both, if you honestly can't get it in the left, stick with matched.

I would say that traditional grip in both hands would not be a wise choice in most drum set configurations.

[vince]

Try it ! It could be funny ! Likewise if it doesn't work you can change, so experiment !

[NouveauCliche]

Check out Lenny White. He's a left handed player, playing on a right handed set up. He's got his rides on his left and his toms are in a tradional right hand kinda set up...and he plays traditional grip with his right hand. It's hard to watch, always freaks me out. He's AWESOME though!

[GAZZASCOTLAND]

i had a friend when i was playing pipe band drumming years ago....we were both grade 1 drummers....we won many a competition in soloing..he was right handed trad grip...so it never done him any harm....though i never seen him playing a kit,i wouldnt imagine it would pose too many problems....give it a bash and see how you get on..

[Tutin]

I was at a Nikko McBrain clinic earlier this year and he said that he couldn't play traditional right handed so he did it left handed because it was easier. He said that if your teacher (or anyone for that matter) tells you "You should be holding your sticks like this..." why bother?
Basically what he was saying is that if you can play something the way you do then why bother trying to learn another way? It does make sense.

[King Crimson]

Originally Posted by NouveauCliche

Check out Lenny White. He's a left handed player, playing on a right handed set up. He's got his rides on his left and his toms are in a tradional right hand kinda set up...and he plays traditional grip with his right hand.

Being a lefty myself, this is how I play also.

[Latin Groover]

I play matched grip, but wen i tried to play trad i couldnt. I find it easier to hold trad grip in my right hand, (like a left hand player, not a right. Weird huh) I do a dbl strok roll way better using the lefty trad grip (so my right hand is trad and left is matched) than doing the right handed trad (right hand matched and left trad).

[franklinj]

I find that right handed traditional grip is easier for me (im right handed). I dont know why, but it lets me go so much faster, and its much easier to do doubles, paradiddles, etc...

[emergency]

Hi folks, i,ve been hunting for good video clips of left hand technique with a breakdown of the action without much success. Any links you would recommend.. I moved over to trad grip about a year ago, but my practice regime has been limited to jamming in the studio with friends. I raised the snare, and have been focusing on getting a powerful crack from the drum using a kinda whip down and up action. Power has been achieved but i need to improve ghost note control, unaccented triplets in the background etc etc..

[Latin Groover]

So do normally play lefty matched but wen playing trad u find it easier to do right hand trad?


Wohoo 200 posts!

[minishee07]

go look at weckle's videos in the clinic section. also jojo's moeller video is good too.

[Raymond Bloom]

Originally Posted by minishee07

also Jojo's Moeller video is good too.

I'd say - also Jojo's Moeller video is too good :D

[kzdruma]

I have been using matched grip for 7 years and want to switch to traditional! Any tips?

Help with traditional grip.
There arn't many of us left it seems but when I was coming up I was taught this is how you hold drum sticks. There was no other way. Now with match grip you don't see as many young players using the traditional style grip. I hope we can keep the tradition around forever! I am a drum teacher and a member of the Vic Firth Education Team. I use "A Fresh Approach to the Snare Drum" music book by "Mark Wessels" for all my beginner students. In the front of the book is a good discription of how to play using the traditional grip complete with pictures. Try to get a copy, it will help you a lot. I am sure there are other books available as well. However, start slow. It will feel very strange at first. However, stay with it. You now will be rotating your forearm a bit along with your hand and wrist as you play. The fulcrum is now in the web of that hand between the thumb and the index finger. Keep it somewhat tight in there as this is what will be holding your stick (for the most part) in that hand. Bring your index finger and middle finger around and on top of the stick leaving the other two fingers below the stick. The middle finger does not have to be all the way on top. It sort of rest slightly a long side of the stick a lot of the time. Don't be to concerned with all that at this point. Don't squeeze the stick with your fingers, let it have room to respond off the drum head. Well, this is a good starting point. Give it a try and see what you think. If I can help more just let me know. I'll do my best to keep this tradition alive! Take care and have fun! Rich

[gr82bagn]

kzdruma

I started my transformation from matched to traditional about 6 months ago and what has helped me the most thus far has been practicing basic strokes first (single and double) and then working into my basic rudiments. Always slow at first and with a gradual build up in speed and always to a metronome. I’ve only just started to feel real comfortable with the traditional grip and in my opinion is has had a tremendous effect on my playing. I feel more in control and my dynamics seem to have improved as well.

[vince]

I think you should do the exercise Dom Famularo gives in this Cyber-Lesson about traditional grip : you have to develop strengh in your fulcrum, between the thumb and the side of your hand. All come from that with traditional grip. http://www.vicfirth.com/education/dr...mfamularo.html

[Peter J]

Since traditional grip is a subject near and dear to my heart I thought I'd throw my two cents in - I believe one of the most important aspects of learning and playing traditional grip specifically the weaker hand is developing the rotation of the forearm and holding the sticks loosely, almost to the point of dropping them. When I first started and what I've seen others new to the grip do is to have a tendency of dropping the stick more from the fulcrum than rotating the arm. The motion I'm describing is like turning a door knob. If your doing it right you should feel the muscles in your shoulder working. On Dom F's Vic Firth Cyber Lesson he demonstrated an exercise to train these muscles--also both Joe Morello videos explain and demonstrate this in detail--hope this helps

[kzdruma]

When I am play should I have my left index finger over the stick even when I want the stick to rebound? Like when I am playing a double stroke roll?

[emergency]

Hi.
I turned over to traditional 1 year ago after spending 15 years playing match grip.
Having recently tuned into drummer world there are some really good video clips to help estatblish good technique. The best approach for me has been to focus on the moller technique as demonstrated by jo jo mayer on this site.
This action works best when you have grip at the sweet spot on the stick. with a secure tension (not too tight!) between thum and web. Accented notes come from the hand being opened up slightly with the wrist revolving out,- together with a whip coming from the gripped thumb position . Unaccented bounce strokes are controlled by adjusting the height of the stick, - which affects the angle of the stick,- together with subtle pressure being applied by the middle finger/index finger .
I should emphasise that i,ve only being playing trad grip for a year, so i,m sure i,m still making basic errors. However the feel of this grip when your in the zone is worth the headache.
Also try raising your snare when analysing where your losing stick energy.
Enjoy!

[gr82bagn]

Always remember to stay relaxed. Don't choke up on the stick, let the left hand cradle the stick.