Vintage Gretsch, Slingerland, Ludwig "models"

[Drummy Drummerson]

Okay, so I've decided to buy a top quality vintage jazz kit, probably 1950's/60's, preferably 3 ply mahogany/maple shells - Slingerland, Gretsch or Ludwig - should Rogers be included in this discussion?

Now I see lots of 50's/60's Slingerland, Gretsch and Ludwig (and Rogers) kits out there ...

What "series" of kits should I be looking for?

Are there specific "models" of these drums that are more or less desirable during this era? i.e. Are some kits "entry-level" or "student" models, others "pro" models etc...?

Can someone briefly break down the various models of these kits circa 50's/60s ... if such a thing can be done briefly?

Thanks everyone! You guys are an incredible source of valuable info!

[Ozzy Biz]

This is where LVDC, Ploughman and Harry are in their element.
If you've got the cash, I'd be looking for a 20x14, 12x8, 14x14, 14x4 Gretsch Round Badge. Nice...

[harryconway]

My ears were burning. Check out Jollity Drum Farm to start out some research. http://www.drumfarm.com/ For Ludwig, the Classics and the Clubdates used the same shells, but the Classics had the split lug and the Clubdates had the center lug. Keystone badge most collectable, but the blue/olive badge up until 1976 will still be 3 ply. 76 started the 6 ply shell. You have to go pre 1955 to get Gretsch 3 ply shells. From 55 on, gretsch used a thin 6 ply with no reinforcement ring made by Jasper. Probably THE diffinitive jazz kit would be a round badge Gretsch kit, 20, 12, 14. Rogers (Ploughman's territory) had split lug drums (Holiday series) and centerlug (Tower). Script logo being more cool. I believe Keller made Rogers and Slingerland shells. Between Jollity and eBay, you'll find examples of all these drums. LVDC and Ploughman know way more than I, but that will get you started.

[The Ploughman]

Rogers were the best.


The Cadillac of Drums

Anything with beavertail lugs, 1963/4-67 Flat Gray interior Cleveland Tag, Dayton Tag.

Something in this category........

1966 Dayton Tag Flat Gray, 14x20, 8x12, 14x14, matching 1963 Cleveland Flat Gray Powertone 5x14, Condition: Prime, including period stands. 9/10. Minor defects. a few unoriginal tension rods, two unoriginal hoops, minor scuff to finish on one drum. Overall Excellent Plus condition. $2,000.00 is not unreasonable to expect. These are not for sale.

[prempex]

id be going for a rogers
from what ive read, rogers are supposed to be rgeat drums.
i havent heard any in real life though.

[jazzbo]

Originally Posted by Drummy Drummerson

Okay, so I've decided to buy a top quality vintage jazz kit, probably 1950's/60's, preferably 3 ply mahogany/maple shells - Slingerland, Gretsch or Ludwig - should Rogers be included in this discussion?

Now I see lots of 50's/60's Slingerland, Gretsch and Ludwig (and Rogers) kits out there ...

What "series" of kits should I be looking for?

Are there specific "models" of these drums that are more or less desirable during this era? i.e. Are some kits "entry-level" or "student" models, others "pro" models etc...?

Can someone briefly break down the various models of these kits circa 50's/60s ... if such a thing can be done briefly?

Thanks everyone! You guys are an incredible source of valuable info!

If you are playing jazz go for That Great Gretsch Sound w/ 3 or 6 ply shells and round badge . A very nice condition 20/14/12 kit will set you back more than a Ludwig , Rogers or Slingerland would in the same sizes , but to me they are worth it . Prices just keep skyrocketing . My set :

[Michael G]

Originally Posted by Drummy Drummerson

Okay, so I've decided to buy a top quality vintage jazz kit, probably 1950's/60's, preferably 3 ply mahogany/maple shells - Slingerland, Gretsch or Ludwig - should Rogers be included in this discussion?

Now I see lots of 50's/60's Slingerland, Gretsch and Ludwig (and Rogers) kits out there ...

What "series" of kits should I be looking for?

Are there specific "models" of these drums that are more or less desirable during this era? i.e. Are some kits "entry-level" or "student" models, others "pro" models etc...?

Can someone briefly break down the various models of these kits circa 50's/60s ... if such a thing can be done briefly?

Thanks everyone! You guys are an incredible source of valuable info!

First of all, you can probably cross Gretsch out. For one thing, these kits go for quite a deal of money in good condition on ebay. If you do, DON'T BUY A 60s GRETSCH KIT THAT HAS A SNARE! I see you are a player, and the snare adds alot of value to the kit, but another interesting note is, the snare sounds like garbage! I have never heard a 60s RB snare that did not sound like a box, you would be better off using another maker snare or a 50s Gretsch 3ply snare. The unreinforced Jasper shells with diecast rims just aren't a good formula for a snare (Notice in jazzbo's picture, his Gretsch snare isn't pictured with his kit!). However, a 3ply Gretsch is a different and they will sound fantastic but once again, the value goes high and it might be a stretch to get one. If you really want a Gretsch, then go for it.

Ludwig, you can't go wrong with Ludwig. The easiest would be to get a 60s one since they sold so many during that time thanks to a guy name Rango or Ruggo I forget his name. Very durable 3-ply shells, solid rail mount that looks much classier then the swivo in my opinion. Stick within the dates that allow you to get a keystone badge, simply because it is worth more, and it isn't ugly like the B.O badge. Most kits are sold without a snare, however you can get a 3 piece then buy a 60s Supra on the side and boom, you have a fantastic kit for anything (You can also look for a matching wood snare, if you do, go for the Jazz festival model over the Pioneer model). The standard sizes were 22" 13" 16" dubbed the Super Classic outfit, 20" 12" 14" dubbed the Downbeat outfit, and a different outfit from the rest, the Club Date which had center lugs and varying sizes through out the year, but I believe 20" 12" and 15 x 12" was the common one (also the rail mount was in the center." There is also a double rack tom model, the Hollywood, but you don't need to look into that. Overall it would not cost you too much and you would be more then satisfied.

Slingerland is also a fantastic choice. For them, you can stick to a year date between 1958 and 1970. They also made 3-ply shells. I am not familiar with their outfits besides the famous Radio King, but the most common seen sizes are 22" 13" 16" and 20" 12" 14" sets. If it comes with a snare, great! It would probably be a Hollywood Ace snare model, which is a fantastic drum and you can pick up on ebay for not that much in addition to the kit. Unless, you chose to a later dated drums then it probably came with the newer metal snare drums instead. It would be easiest to find a White pearl kit, they look great still with usually little fading, and you can find a similar colored Hollywood Ace pretty easily. If you want a SUPER snare sound, I suggest after you get the 3-piece, then find a Radio King snare drum. Solid maple shell with rereings, those snares are some of the best ever created. But, it will cost at least $500, but they can go quite a bit more. Slingerland kits are usually the cheapest of the other brands so you would be looking at some good prices for your buy.

Also almost every kit back then was TOP OF THE LINE. There were very little Student models or junior outfits, and even so are rare to come up on ebay. You won't have to worry about buying a low end kit.

But come on, look at these babies. Ludwig is the way to go.

[jazzbo]

Originally Posted by SmoothJazz

First of all, you can probably cross Gretsch out. For one thing, these kits go for quite a deal of money in good condition on ebay. If you do, DON'T BUY A 60s GRETSCH KIT THAT HAS A SNARE! I see you are a player, and the snare adds alot of value to the kit, but another interesting note is, the snare sounds like garbage! I have never heard a 60s RB snare that did not sound like a box, you would be better off using another maker snare or a 50s Gretsch 3ply snare. The unreinforced Jasper shells with diecast rims just aren't a good formula for a snare (Notice in jazzbo's picture, his Gretsch snare isn't pictured with his kit!). However, a 3ply Gretsch is a different and they will sound fantastic but once again, the value goes high and it might be a stretch to get one. If you really want a Gretsch, then go for it.

Actually , the 5.5 Name Band snare IS pictured with the set . The snare all by its lonesome is a 4x14 Max Roach .

I own a 60's Ludwig set as well , and it has served me well for many , many years .

A pic ...

[Michael G]

Nice Ringo kit!

At first glance I thought it was a Slingerland snare with the Gretsch kit..

If you have more drums in your collection, please do share!

[The Ploughman]

He does. They are all top notch super HOTT kits. Nice colors too.

[jazzbo]

Originally Posted by SmoothJazz

Nice Ringo kit!

At first glance I thought it was a Slingerland snare with the Gretsch kit..

If you have more drums in your collection, please do share!

In the photo the kit does look like Oyster Black Pearl , but it is in fact Oyster Blue . Sizes are 22/16/13 and it came from the factory with a Supraphonic . I ordered this kit from Caruso's Music in New London , CT in winter of 1967-68 ( when I was 15 ) and it arrived at the store in April . Drums are stamped Oct. 1967 . No mods and all original exc. heads .

Thank you for the kind words Ploughman , but I have sold both of my Rogers kits ; my Sonor Phonic bop kit ; and my two Sonor Signature bop kits all within the last 18 months . Sold a bunch of snare drums as well . Still have one , mint circa 1964 Wine Red Ripple Rogers Powertone snare which I don't plan on selling right away .

I'm down to four kits now :

1967 Ludwig Super Classic ( pictured above ) 22/16/13/5
1963-4 Gretsch Progressive Jazz ( " " ) 20/14/12/4/5
2002 Gretsch Broadkaster 18/14/12/5x14
2002 Sonor Delite 18/16/14/13/12/10/8/5x14

[The Ploughman]

If you do...........email me. Ill sell a kidney or something.

[chasvint]

someone in one of these threads made the statement that Gretsch went from 3 ply to Thin Jasper 6 ply in 1955,,,hes wrong..Gretsch went from 3 ply to a Jasper 6 ply around 57'. The intresting thing is that the first Jasper 6 ply shells where the same thickness as the 3 ply shells they replaced. About a year or so later they went to the thin 6 ply shells they used until Jasper went out of business. So there are 2 different 6 ply Jasper shells used by Gretsch. I've owned them all, and I think the 50's 3 ply are by far the best sounding..... As far as snares go, the only one that sounds halfway decent, are the 3 ply 61/2"ers. Most roundbadge Gretsh snares sound like crap, the worst being the Max Roach ( or Progressive Jazz) better try one before you buy one...

[harryconway]

Originally Posted by chasvint

someone

that would be me

Originally Posted by chasvint

made the statement that Gretsch went from 3 ply to Thin Jasper 6 ply in 1955,,,hes wrong..Gretsch went from 3 ply to a Jasper 6 ply around 57'. The intresting thing is that the first Jasper 6 ply shells where the same thickness as the 3 ply shells they replaced. About a year or so later they went to the thin 6 ply shells they used until Jasper went out of business.

fair enough. so now I have two info. sources saying that happened in 54/55 and one saying it happened in 57. I'll without a doubt state that it happened sometime in the mid-50's.

[Michael G]

I heard 1955 too, but I think it might be at least 57' because that it was like a year later or somewhere around that time they started losing most of their endorsers.