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  #1  
Old 01-10-2008, 10:39 PM
drjdrum drjdrum is offline
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Default Trouble w/ 18" kick sound...

Greetings!

This question has perhaps been beat to death, but here goes...

I have a Taye Tour-Pro 18"x16" bass drum (birch/basswood) that I am having trouble with. Most of what I do with this bop kit is for small group jazz/pop stuff, and overall practice. The stock clear (batter) and smooth white (reso) heads with built in muffle rings are less than satisfying - sounds like a small marching bass drum! I want a versitile sound, leaning toward a pure jazz sound, but not near as ringy and resonant as say, Elvin had. I want more punch, warmth, tone and some limited sustain. For my first attempt - I tried evans g1 coated bass drum heads - one each for batter and reso. Wide open - way two much ring. With a 1" felt strip behnid each head - closer, but not enough warm punch, and still too much ring. I am experimenting with tension as well, with no results. I am thinking of going a different route, and trying new heads.

I have been playing many styles for many years on my kits having 22" and 24" kicks. This is my first bop kit and need advice - I've never had this much trouble with a bass drum before. Any ideas on head combos for me? Also, anyone recommend a bass drum riser to get the beater dead center, or is that even necessary?

Thanks!
DJ
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2008, 11:01 PM
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Wavelength Wavelength is offline
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Default Re: Trouble w/ 18" kick sound...

Try two coated PS3s on it. Works pretty well on my 18" x 15".
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2008, 11:06 PM
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harryconway harryconway is offline
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Default Re: Trouble w/ 18" kick sound...

I ran a 20x14 Yamaha kick with a clear Remo Powerstroke 3 batter and an ebony P3 reso., and the sound was a nice, tight punch with very little overtone. A P3 batter with a Fiberskyn 3 reso. also might fit the bill nicely. I'm a Remo guy, no doubt.
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Old 01-10-2008, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: Trouble w/ 18" kick sound...

...I had an old Export 18x16" floor tom converted into a bass drum that sounded great with an Evans EQ-4.

I used a Fibreskyn for the res head.

Barry
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2008, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: Trouble w/ 18" kick sound...

Personally I could not stand the clear PS3 that came with my new 18"x16" Peace 9 ply bubinga shell bass drum. Tried it on both sides and said forget it pretty quick. it lacked tone and attack and volume and presence of a clear full sharply defined note. Sounded similar in some ways to a pinstripe the choice of head I truly hate the sound of on any drum for acheiving a crisp and open melodic type of jazz sound quality of clarity for a crisp attack and response which another choice of heads deliver for me. Went back istantly to the sound and selection of heads i've loved and have used for over 30 years of playing various 18" bass drum in acoustic jazz with that particular "Elvin" sound directly in mind. 18" remo coated ambassador of the front and a clear remo ambassador with a felt strip part way up from the bottom on the batter side. After tuned just right jazz bass drum heaven yet again with a hard wood beater hitting up from center which Elvin used to do too I might add.

Full,clear tone,attack and beautiful resonance just as i've liked with all my other 18" kicks both live and in the studio. So that's my choice of heads without doubt for a true clear speaking 18" bass drum in a acoustic jazz setting remembering I LIKE lots of overtones. Hate dead flat sounding bass drums in a acoustic jazz situation because I use the bass drum like Elvin as a melodic voice in the kit in a group situation..
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2008, 03:18 AM
drjdrum drjdrum is offline
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Default Re: Trouble w/ 18" kick sound...

Thanks to all for quick responses! This is my first day on the forum - great stuff!

Steamer - great response. I truly appreciate the pure sound that you enjoy - more in character with how the other drums speak in the kit. I love that sound in a mainstream jazz setting - Bill Stewart's 18" kick comes to mind for me...very tasty. I dunno - that being said, I would still like to try to acheive some sort of 'hybrid', to better accomodate other styles of music other than my quartet gig...

Any other thoughts? Anyone?

DJ
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2008, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: Trouble w/ 18" kick sound...

On my 14x18 I just have my stock Gretsch muffled reso that has a small hole cut in it, and an Evans EQ4 on the batter. I tune the batter pretty low and the reso higher and it sounds like a much bigger drum than it is. It's very punchy.
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2008, 06:48 AM
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Default Re: Trouble w/ 18" kick sound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by drjdrum View Post
Thanks to all for quick responses! This is my first day on the forum - great stuff!

Steamer - great response. I truly appreciate the pure sound that you enjoy - more in character with how the other drums speak in the kit. I love that sound in a mainstream jazz setting - Bill Stewart's 18" kick comes to mind for me...very tasty. I dunno - that being said, I would still like to try to acheive some sort of 'hybrid', to better accomodate other styles of music other than my quartet gig...

Any other thoughts? Anyone?

DJ
Good luck with narrowing in what your after and welcome to the site.

My desciption is of the "classic" definitive 18" open jazz tuning bass drum sound which requires a certain combination of heads to achieve for best results. That's what I use and love with no hole in front head and such with only a very limited dampening of the drum. Works for myself and others but not for everyboby understood. Alot of it is based off the approach to playing the drum and style of the music for that particular sound to work best musically speaking.

Keep experimenting till you find what works for YOU.
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2008, 07:25 AM
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Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
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Default Re: Trouble w/ 18" kick sound...

I want more punch, warmth, tone and some limited sustain.

I've had good luck with 'Aquarian Impact' single ply 18's and whatever colour you want on the front head. You may want to mess with different beaters too. A major big help for a fatty sound would be round over bearing edges both sides, if you don't already have them. It makes the sound much warmer/rounder. All my kick's no matter what size, have round over bearing edges.

Also, anyone recommend a bass drum riser to get the beater dead center, or is that even necessary?

. If your beater is way extended, you may need one. A sure way to find out is work your pedal 'unmounted' from the hoop. Raise and lower the bass drum to different positions with your hand and see what tone you come up with. It may not make that much of a difference to have the beater dead center, it really all depends on the length of the beater and head tension.

'Dead center' is less of a factor on 20" and up bass drums. The best riser is the Yamaha unit, the same one used on Yamaha's 'Dax Dad' drum.
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2008, 07:53 AM
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Default Re: Trouble w/ 18" kick sound...

Dead center never been an issue with me with 18" and 16" bass dums in the past or currently for both live and studio work for acoustic jazz playing. Love the sharp attack and warm tone with my wooden beater up from center on my 18" and 16" bass drums. Good enough for early Tony and Elvin and my mentor the great Canadian jazz drummer Claude Ranger good enough for me long before such a thing as drum risers for small kicks and current obsession with the kick beater hitting dead center took hold. More people should try it they may like the sound and attack and warm round sound of note it gives off. I sure did for going on some 33 years now. I guess the dead on center fixation I keep reading and hearing about is more based on a modern pop approach to smaller bass drums and sound rather than the classic jazz approach and sound that's more the norm to me and my ears.
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2008, 08:00 AM
KlarkKent KlarkKent is offline
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Default Re: Trouble w/ 18" kick sound...

I believe I read a post from Andy@Massmusic, who has a Taye Studio Maple, and he recommended using an Aquarian Superkick II or III on the bass drum batter side. The Taye stock heads are absolute crap from what I've heard, so definitely pick out some good Aquarian, Evans, or Remo heads!
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2008, 04:47 PM
drjdrum drjdrum is offline
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Default Re: Trouble w/ 18" kick sound...

I agree, I didn't really care for the stock Taye heads. The first thing I did was swap out both batter and resos for G1 coated batters (including both kick heads), genera resonant for toms, hazy 300 for snare, and changed to purecussion snares as well. The drums really sing, and I am pleased with this little kit.

I will keep adjusting the variables on the bass drum as time permits...thanks for the input everyone...
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