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  #81  
Old 10-09-2007, 06:06 AM
Jusstickinaround
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBreath View Post
My friend, I hope you were smiling when you said that because you are about to get tossed out on your rear end.

23 posts deleted for personal attacks or being off topic. The next personal attack gets this thread closed and a free ban for the offender, on the house. Any takers? You guys want to talk about this nicely? Alrighty then.
Happy Holloween everyone!
  #82  
Old 10-09-2007, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
I'm not going to stir up the hornet's nest again here, but only to say that there is nothing wrong with being passionate about how you feel when it comes to music. There are many less valid things that too many people only think are big deals. There are already too many out there who throw out this It's only music line as if it's some universal understanding that everybody agrees with, when it really isn't. I think it's sad when people feel that way about music, or any kind of art worth fighting for.

I remember being told this story about members of the French Resistance who used to hijack Nazi trains that were trying to smuggle great French art out of the country, and how those guys took bullets to save Picassos, because they believed that art was at the core of who they were as people and as a culture.

I wonder how many of their relatives thought Hey it's only art. What's the big deal?

At the same time many who wear the It's only music shirt are the same ones who totally lose it over non musical practice for prizes events like WFD or some drum contest. Then suddenly they come out of nowhere and become defenders of the faith. After seeing enough of this, you realize that actual motivations are a lot more self driven than some let on...not from everybody, but enough.

Yeah, it got testy today. But it was still good.
Well said, Matt. Are you as articulate with your Moller taps? I cant get my softer accents under control. I met Max too, by the way. Forget the drummer bit...What a gentleman!
  #83  
Old 10-09-2007, 06:26 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusstickinaround View Post
If you have great skills and you're only playing for a handfull of people, then you're selling yourself short.

Think about what you're saying, it may so noble, but what's the point of having great technique if no one hears it.

Why can't you have both?
Again, it was the original poster who created the artificial dichotomy to which I was responding. These moral dilemmas tend to exist only as mental exercises, not in the real world, thus the perceived need to defend either position, along with the emotional attachment that often accompanies the position, is simply misplaced. Most of us will not have to worry about being in Steve Smith's place, and if we ever are then I would imagine that the choice would be the right one for each of us, not any one single right answer that applies to everyone.
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  #84  
Old 10-09-2007, 06:36 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
I'm not going to stir up the hornet's nest again here, but only to say that there is nothing wrong with being passionate about how you feel when it comes to music. There are many less valid things that too many people only think are big deals. There are already too many out there who throw out this It's only music line as if it's some universal understanding that everybody agrees with, when it really isn't. I think it's sad when people feel that way about music, or any kind of art worth fighting for.

I remember being told this story about members of the French Resistance who used to hijack Nazi trains that were trying to smuggle great French art out of the country, and how those guys took bullets to save Picassos, because they believed that art was at the core of who they were as people and as a culture.

I wonder how many of their relatives thought Hey it's only art. What's the big deal?

At the same time many who wear the It's only music shirt are the same ones who totally lose it over non musical practice for prizes events like WFD or some drum contest. Then suddenly they come out of nowhere and become defenders of the faith. After seeing enough of this, you realize that actual motivations are a lot more self driven than some let on...not from everybody, but enough.

Yeah, it got testy today. But it was still good.
Good points Matt.

I'm one of those people who takes playing music very seriously and the commitment it takes usually over most of a lifetime to accomplish ones goals as a musician. There's no arrogance or snobery contained in that statement only the realization of what it takes to complete one's own personal goals be it for fame or fortune or for the pure pursuit of an artistic endeavor or personal musical goal. And yes I got testy when the true serious nature of that type of level of commitment to one's art is not understood properly or given any due respect since i've always been ready to stand up for the good fight to stay true to my craft and beliefs and why some would chose such a route,not an easy route I might add on many fronts. We are all individuals with different goals and desires but we should always show each other mutual respect no matter what the personal choice or choices one makes.
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  #85  
Old 10-09-2007, 07:27 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnw60 View Post
A couple things - I don't profess to be an established drum critic, however I don't believe that there's a minimum prerequisite for offering honest and valid criticism in this forum. What is required in any critical discussion is to be very clear in defining the terms, issues and critical framework that form the basis of the criticism. That kind of clarity is what elevates criticism from the level of being simply an opinion to the more valuable realm where one can actually learn something from it. In fact, the act of criticizing should be educational for the critic because defining a critical framework forces you to explore the assumptions that you may have previously taken for granted. It also provides the basis for self-criticism or more importantly, gives you the tools to understand and respond to criticism from others. I will definitely concede that this is a pretty theoretical viewpoint, but hey, that's the kind of guy I am.

And my basic point is still that once someone puts their work out into the public arena, especially when they have achieved some degree of fame and fortune because of it - it's fair game for anyone to use it as fodder for critical analysis. That doesn't mean everybody will be right or will even understand the premise from which the work was offered. But that's where the forum steps in and serves as the great equalizer by having other people who can call BS when somebody misses the mark (kind of how Matt and Steamer have been offering 'corrective feedback' throughout this thread). And the process, at it's best, offers the possibility for increasing the overall understanding and awareness of the community. At it's worst, well let's just say we all know how that plays out...
Well, cnw60...

You can suger-coat it all you want with big words and important(sounding) statements, but I'll stick with my views of my post # 71.

Though, I DO agree that Matt and Steamer have been offering "some" corrective feedback, even if some of it was harsh.

I mean no dis-respect to you, cnw60, but we'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess...

Peace Out!
  #86  
Old 10-09-2007, 08:16 AM
Erik Lund
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

23 posts deleted? What went on in here? I'm gone for a few hours and all hell breaks loose?


I don't know what was said in the deleted posts, but I've never seen you so spikey, Matt.
  #87  
Old 10-09-2007, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBreath View Post
Again, it was the original poster who created the artificial dichotomy to which I was responding. These moral dilemmas tend to exist only as mental exercises, not in the real world, thus the perceived need to defend either position, along with the emotional attachment that often accompanies the position, is simply misplaced. Most of us will not have to worry about being in Steve Smith's place, and if we ever are then I would imagine that the choice would be the right one for each of us, not any one single right answer that applies to everyone.
Nicely put. Especially the zen-influenced bit about the emotional attachment that often accompanies the position.

Frankly, I really couldn't give this thread much credence (which is why I made the " leave Britney alone" comments) when I first read it and I still can't because this conflict was resolved years ago with me.

I would practice just as hard as I do today if I was the only person left alive. Drums and music are part of my being, it's not as if I am doing it for any external reason. Frankly, I refer to those musicians who do it for external reasons as craftsmen and not artists. Certainly respectable and even admirable but NOT representing expression at the highest level.

My happiness is entirely dependent upon me and my reaction to the world. I don't need adulation, as a matter of fact, if someone comes up to me and tells me I'm great I often feel uncomfortable even though I am at a pro level. It's because their definition of "great" is not mine.

So, with that framework in my mind, reading a comment written by some "weekend warrior" that basically views drumming/music as a means to an end and not an end in itself, is just laughable. It's like my teeny bopper cousin calling Mozart "sleepy music". It can't even be replied to seriously.
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  #88  
Old 10-09-2007, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
(snip) It's like my teeny bopper cousin calling Mozart "sleepy music". It can't even be replied to seriously.
It is a historically proven fact that the term teeny bopper was dervived from the french words, Ti'nee Beaupair.. which translated into english means.. Bay City Rollers.

;-)
  #89  
Old 10-09-2007, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Again, it was the original poster who created the artificial dichotomy to which I was responding. These moral dilemmas tend to exist only as mental exercises, not in the real world, thus the perceived need to defend either position, along with the emotional attachment that often accompanies the position, is simply misplaced. Most of us will not have to worry about being in Steve Smith's place, and if we ever are then I would imagine that the choice would be the right one for each of us, not any one single right answer that applies to everyone.
DB, this gets my vote for one of the most intelligent things ever typed up on this forum.

j
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  #90  
Old 10-09-2007, 10:44 AM
Erik Lund
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

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Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON View Post
DB, this gets my vote for one of the most intelligent things ever typed up on this forum.
Obviously right behind my post #56.
  #91  
Old 10-09-2007, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

All music has a function, The avante garde jazz helped create Zappa, as did Stravinsky, Zappa helped create the spice girls if you dig deep enough...Zappa lobbyied against censership. I find what Dogbreath said a couple posts earlier was indeed very well said. It made me think about how we can be censers without realizing it. How judgement is the bain [or can be] of artists. The moment we have to prove something, creativity goes out the window. Go have a conversation in a coffee shop, or a drum shop. Some say a gig is like 4 practices. A real conversation with people is like 25 posts!



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  #92  
Old 10-09-2007, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

This thread is driving me to go and listen to Justin Timberlake. Help.
  #93  
Old 10-09-2007, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

He's got a few good songs. "Cry Me A River" is pretty great...or whatever it's called.
  #94  
Old 10-09-2007, 03:30 PM
abe abe is offline
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

[...]Your bridges were burned, and now it's your turn
To cry, cry me a river
Cry me a river-er
Cry me a river
Cry me a river-er, yea yea[...]

I know that they say
That somethings are better left unsaid[...]

Oh
(Oh)
The damage is done
So I guess I be leaving
Oh
(Oh)[...]

:D I would say, very true lyrics ;)

P.S. Song isn't bad.
  #95  
Old 10-09-2007, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Erik L should go back to his private estate before he's soiled by us, the unclean. Matt and Steamer; you damn jazz snobs should stop posting such articulate and well thought out arguments cos you're making the rest of us look bad!!
Zappafan; love ya bro, good thread, love the fact that we do it for fun and still, despite what some others may believe, have our passion
And DB....please can you pm me the deleted posts cos I think its great when mature adults [???] get the computer equivalent of road rage
MichaelDrums; what the hell are you still doing on here??? LMBFAO!
Love and kisses to all, jc
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  #96  
Old 10-09-2007, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Cable View Post
Erik L should go back to his private estate before he's soiled by us, the unclean. Matt and Steamer; you damn jazz snobs should stop posting such articulate and well thought out arguments cos you're making the rest of us look bad!!
Zappafan; love ya bro, good thread, love the fact that we do it for fun and still, despite what some others may believe, have our passion
And DB....please can you pm me the deleted posts cos I think its great when mature adults [???] get the computer equivalent of road rage
MichaelDrums; what the hell are you still doing on here??? LMBFAO!
Love and kisses to all, jc
Oh Jon...you're always good for a witty quote! Hee...hee...

Right back atcha, buddy. ;-)

LMBFAOA!


Awwww Shucks! :-)
  #97  
Old 10-09-2007, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Cable View Post
Erik L should go back to his private estate before he's soiled by us, the unclean. Matt and Steamer; you damn jazz snobs should stop posting such articulate and well thought out arguments cos you're making the rest of us look bad!!
Zappafan; love ya bro, good thread, love the fact that we do it for fun and still, despite what some others may believe, have our passion
And DB....please can you pm me the deleted posts cos I think its great when mature adults [???] get the computer equivalent of road rage
MichaelDrums; what the hell are you still doing on here??? LMBFAO!
Love and kisses to all, jc

Man are you ever funny brother!. Thanks for the good laugh much needed I may add.
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  #98  
Old 10-09-2007, 07:08 PM
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Default The Manor

Yes, I shall retire to the manor. Muffy and Buffy need their filet mignon biscotti dog treats.

I played to a crowd of 8 people, but they were all millionaires and left their estates to me (touched by my artistic vision and integrity). And I almost turned down the gig for the Real World marathon...
  #99  
Old 10-09-2007, 07:27 PM
abe abe is offline
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Default Re: The Manor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Lund View Post
a crowd of 8 people
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
  #100  
Old 10-09-2007, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zappafan View Post
Alright boys and girls, here I go.

I've read in many threads the importance of technique and have read many threads that critique famous drummers technical drumming or lack thereof.

Music for the general public is not about technique. It's about what you hear and how it moves you. Whether it makes you want to grab a beer (AC/DC), or make you want to sit back and relax (Bach).

I understand that technique is important, but to hear the absolute blathering on how bad the technique and skills of everyone from Lars to Portnoy is absolutely ridiculous. Not everyone is Dave Weckl nor do they want to be, although I'm sure I can find stuff here about his skill or lack thereof. You cannot please everyone all the time. I understand that, but c'mon.

Many people on this forum have a great amount of skill. I've watched and heard the vids and clips. But there is a lot of arrogance as well. Not everyone loves to play a clave in 21/17 time or wants to listen to it for that matter.

My point - why do so many guys bash the pros on lack of skill or technique? I'll take playing snare on 2 and 4 in front of 30,000 screaming fans over being able to do a right foot clave while playing 13/3 time with my left hand in front of 7 drunks in a bar.

I'll take Lars' so called lousy technique, stadium tours (and bank book) over the arrogant jazz dudes perfect form and crappy little bars they play in any time. If any one here was asked to play in Dream Theatre, Metallica etc., you'd take the gig in a second.

My wife asked me to take out the part about the arrogant jazz players here, but I believe it is the truth, so I'm leaving it in.

That is all.... :)

Peace.
First of all there is NOT one drummer who can play everything....
This is why there isare a varietyof STYLE's of music
Sometimes PRO drummers that just GROOVE for the band can play stuff that will make your head spin..........
FYI ...RAY Garraway from CHAOS just plays simnple GROOVES with the band....
but I KNOW first hand that RAY can play way beyond that..

If a MUSICIAN has passion for MUSIC then they will play with their HEART no matter what kind of music they play.
I love the Phil Rudd grooves but I can apprecciate WECKL as well...
There are jazz snobs, blues snobs, metal snobs,etc...
these are just closed minded people and they will be who they are we can't change that..
My 3 cents Im GREEDY...
Tim
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  #101  
Old 10-09-2007, 11:23 PM
abe abe is offline
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Waterson View Post
Im GREEDY...
So that's the reason why you put FREE educational clips in youtube and give out a lot of useful tips for everyone in this forum :)

By the way your post is great!
  #102  
Old 10-10-2007, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

So, with that framework in my mind, reading a comment written by some "weekend warrior" that basically views drumming/music as a means to an end and not an end in itself, is just laughable. It's like my teeny bopper cousin calling Mozart "sleepy music". It can't even be replied to seriously.[/quote]

I take a bit of offense to that "weekend warrior" crap.Yes I play with a band mainly on weekends, mainly because I have a day job and it's the only time I can gig. If you're implying guys like me don't have the passion or skills, well, your sadly mistaken. When I'm not playing I'm thinking of playing or practicing, I'm thinking of new ways to interpet a cover song and make it mine.When I do play a gig, usally for 3-4 hours a night, I put every ounce of energy and emotion in to each song, because I don't know when the next gig might be.
Believe me, I'd rather be playing original tunes, but unfortunately where I live if you do all originals you're very limited where you can play. Besides, I've given up the dream of stardom, now I just play because I love being a drummer and playing music.
  #103  
Old 10-10-2007, 12:56 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

I gotta great mental picture of DogBreath playing for the Spice Girls....BaldySpice?....Or DawgySpice???.....Or AdminSpice???.... Or JonYou'reBarredFromDrummerWorldSpice???....Or even DeletedPostSpice???....
what would we be???...MattSmith could be EthicalSpice....Erik L could be IncrediblySpecialSpice.....Michaeldrums could be WhatTheHellAreYouStillDoingHereSpice....I could be FatObnoxiousSpice...Bernhard could be RingoSpice......who could be JazzSnobSpice??
God I wish I took all this seriously.....
PixieStix could be PersonalityDisorderSpice...
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  #104  
Old 10-10-2007, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusstickinaround View Post
So, with that framework in my mind, reading a comment written by some "weekend warrior" that basically views drumming/music as a means to an end and not an end in itself, is just laughable. It's like my teeny bopper cousin calling Mozart "sleepy music". It can't even be replied to seriously.
I take a bit of offense to that "weekend warrior" crap.Yes I play with a band mainly on weekends, mainly because I have a day job and it's the only time I can gig. If you're implying guys like me don't have the passion or skills, well, your sadly mistaken. When I'm not playing I'm thinking of playing or practicing, I'm thinking of new ways to interpet a cover song and make it mine.When I do play a gig, usally for 3-4 hours a night, I put every ounce of energy and emotion in to each song, because I don't know when the next gig might be.
Believe me, I'd rather be playing original tunes, but unfortunately where I live if you do all originals you're very limited where you can play. Besides, I've given up the dream of stardom, now I just play because I love being a drummer and playing music.[/quote]

Good for you bro, Im sure that Jeff didnt mean any offence by his remarks tho.
Some of us arent lucky enough to play for a living and 'weekend warrior' should be a compliment to our tenacity and dedication and love for playing.
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  #105  
Old 10-10-2007, 01:03 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Waterson View Post
First of all there is NOT one drummer who can play everything....
This is why there isare a varietyof STYLE's of music
Sometimes PRO drummers that just GROOVE for the band can play stuff that will make your head spin..........
FYI ...RAY Garraway from CHAOS just plays simnple GROOVES with the band....
but I KNOW first hand that RAY can play way beyond that..

If a MUSICIAN has passion for MUSIC then they will play with their HEART no matter what kind of music they play.
I love the Phil Rudd grooves but I can apprecciate WECKL as well...
There are jazz snobs, blues snobs, metal snobs,etc...
these are just closed minded people and they will be who they are we can't change that..
My 3 cents Im GREEDY...
Tim
And to be fair Tim; there are WFD snobs too, agree wholeheartedly with your warm fuzzy sentiments tho.....
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  #106  
Old 10-10-2007, 01:41 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Cable View Post
And to be fair Tim; there are WFD snobs too, agree wholeheartedly with your warm fuzzy sentiments tho.....
\
Yes unfortunately there will always be snobs......
One of the reasons a few of us DONT do WFD anymore
WE are drummers FIRST,.,,SPEED is just a means to an end...
BUT it is FUN to be a ble to play fast..LOL
Tim
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  #107  
Old 10-10-2007, 03:36 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Cable View Post
I gotta great mental picture of DogBreath playing for the Spice Girls....BaldySpice?....Or DawgySpice???.....Or AdminSpice???.... Or JonYou'reBarredFromDrummerWorldSpice???....Or even DeletedPostSpice???....
what would we be???...MattSmith could be EthicalSpice....Erik L could be IncrediblySpecialSpice.....Michaeldrums could be WhatTheHellAreYouStillDoingHereSpice....I could be FatObnoxiousSpice...Bernhard could be RingoSpice......who could be JazzSnobSpice??
God I wish I took all this seriously.....
PixieStix could be PersonalityDisorderSpice...
Jon, by the unofficial powers entrusted in me, I hereby pronounce you "the unofficial king of of this thread"

Last edited by aydee; 10-10-2007 at 09:26 AM.
  #108  
Old 10-10-2007, 03:56 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Waterson View Post
\
Yes unfortunately there will always be snobs......
One of the reasons a few of us DONT do WFD anymore
WE are drummers FIRST,.,,SPEED is just a means to an end...
BUT it is FUN to be a ble to play fast..LOL
Tim

It's more fun in my view to learn how to play well in a band a true art indeed in my view for a drummer. Okay sorry my age is showing and no arrogance or snobery intended on my part just an observation and comment from one of the old crew that puts the music first. I've got tons of chops it's just a matter of understanding how to use them in a musical manner in the context of the musical situations i'm involved in and that my friends is the real trick and learned skill in my view and more satisfying in the end at least for me from what time and experience has taught me.
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www.myspace.com/setstan
  #109  
Old 10-10-2007, 04:03 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
It's more fun in my view to learn how to play well in a band a true art indeed in my view for a drummer. Okay sorry my age is showing and no arrogance or snobery intended on my part just an observation and comment from one of the old crew that puts the music first. I've got tons of chops it's just a matter of understanding how to use them in a musical manner in the context of the musical situations i'm involved in and that my friends is the real trick and learned skill in my view and more satisfying in the end at least for me from what time and experience has taught me.
STAN,
maybe you dont know? but we ALL play in bands.........
and of course GROOVE and making the music feel good is what its all about.
Tim
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  #110  
Old 10-10-2007, 04:13 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Waterson View Post
STAN,
maybe you dont know? but we ALL play in bands.........
and of course GROOVE and making the music feel good is what its all about.
Tim
Okay Tim then that's good then. I just have heard lots of players over the years working on developing amazing technical drum skills but in return don't have a clue how to play in a band. For me this has always been a legitmate concern and observation of mine worth addressing.
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  #111  
Old 10-10-2007, 04:23 AM
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Tim Waterson Tim Waterson is offline
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
Okay Tim then that's good then. I just have heard lots of players over the years working on developing amazing technical drum skills but in return don't have a clue how to play in a band. For me this has always been a legitmate concern and observation of mine worth addressing.
STAN were on the same page..LOL
This is why I mentioned RAY Garraway from KAOS as he can play circles around a lot of drummers but KNOWS how just lay back and groove...........
IMHO one of the most under rated drummers.....
Tim
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  #112  
Old 10-10-2007, 04:28 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Waterson View Post
STAN were on the same page..LOL
This is why I mentioned RAY Garraway from KAOS as he can play circles around a lot of drummers but KNOWS how just lay back and groove...........
IMHO one of the most under rated drummers.....
Tim
I hear you Tim. Yes I remember Ray from his Vancouver days a few years back now. Yes folks one SERIOUS player for understanding and having the full meal deal agreed Tim.
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  #113  
Old 10-10-2007, 05:41 AM
michael drums
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Jon, by the unofficial powers entrusted in me, I hereby pronounce you "the unofficial king of of this thread"
All those in favor, say AYE.


AYE!! ;-)
  #114  
Old 10-10-2007, 05:44 AM
Erik Lund
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

"RAY Garraway from CHAOS just plays simnple GROOVES with the band"

...which makes the band name a little amusing, no?




I'm not even going back to re-read everything, but I think the initial idea of this thread has been completely altered, somewhere around Matt getting all huffy, me writing dumb crap, and a few others going off on tangents...

Now it's turned into "weekend warrior says [this]" and everyone jumping to either side...Without even going back, I took the inital post as "Guys who aren't super-technical who are doing well, and that should be okay because they fit in that band that's doing well for a reason. Gosh, maybe all of the people who talk all day about proper wrist movement should ease up on them."

Something like that...

Well, I was gonna get into a long post but my buddy just showed up and we're off to $1.50 pints of Kirin and Saporro.

To be continued...
  #115  
Old 10-10-2007, 06:58 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Lund View Post
"RAY Garraway from CHAOS just plays simnple GROOVES with the band"

...which makes the band name a little amusing, no?




I'm not even going back to re-read everything, but I think the initial idea of this thread has been completely altered, somewhere around Matt getting all huffy, me writing dumb crap, and a few others going off on tangents...

Now it's turned into "weekend warrior says [this]" and everyone jumping to either side...Without even going back, I took the inital post as "Guys who aren't super-technical who are doing well, and that should be okay because they fit in that band that's doing well for a reason. Gosh, maybe all of the people who talk all day about proper wrist movement should ease up on them."

Something like that...

Well, I was gonna get into a long post but my buddy just showed up and we're off to $1.50 pints of Kirin and Saporro.

To be continued...
You of all people, the talented 26 year old free jazz drummer, who would rather wait tables then play what you don't believe in---should have seen that first post for what it was as quickly as anyone...which was...

Who do non famous drummers think they are for talking about the technique of famous drummers, when it's so obvious to a non serious musician that you musician people who claim such high principles would actually sell out as fast as I would if you had half the chance... especially you jazz snobs who perch yourselves on flagpoles judging the rest of us, when all you've got are your smokey bars to show for it?

Did I get it about right? I think I did.

And the fact that several people here demonstrated otherwise so passionately was a very cool thing to see.

Nothing was wrong with this thread at all, despite the questionable reasons for its beginning. And the weekend warrior issues are certainly a part of it because we were actually having a dialogue about the implied pecking order and shaky democratic principles associated with posting on drum forums.

And yeah, Tim's participation was cool too, because speed drumming business has blurred the lines of several of us here with a pecking order in a forum that contains more of those guys than any other. Hey, I'm proud of that part of me too, which made the elitist jazz snob label pretty hilarious.

Obviously this thread did a great deal of good, because we had a spirited exchange and 2000 people saw it. I had for all practical purposes given up on seeing good spirited talks here, because it had been so long since it had happened.

I think the true issue is about how forum posters want to label something they either don't understand, or act out when they feel like the parade is passing them by. I really think this is where this jazz snob angle comes from, along with why full time pros downsize weekend players, and why some weekend guys think full time pros don't have real jobs. Yeah, come on...admit it weekend guys. There are a large batch of American pro musicians who are supposed to feel guilty about having full time music careers, because it's part of our culture to be told that real work is only when you move an object from one place to the other.

This stuff will never work its way through on a forum thread, but at least more of us are now aware that these divisions exist.
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  #116  
Old 10-10-2007, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Yes, we need passionate conversations here, and I know that it's a hard line to walk between passion and getting just a little too carried away. I appreciate those who can walk that line and keep DW interesting.

Bald Spice.

Banned Spice?

I can't decide.
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  #117  
Old 10-10-2007, 09:21 AM
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NUTHA JASON NUTHA JASON is offline
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
There are a large batch of American pro musicians who are supposed to feel guilty about having full time music careers, because it's part of our culture to be told that real work is only when you move an object from one place to the other.
i can't gig without moving my drums from one place to another.

bashed spice

bored spice

j
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  #118  
Old 10-10-2007, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBreath View Post
Yes, we need passionate conversations here, and I know that it's a hard line to walk between passion and getting just a little too carried away. I appreciate those who can walk that line and keep DW interesting.

Bald Spice.

Banned Spice?

I can't decide.
I think that WonderfullyForgivingFairModeratorSpice would be the most appropriate....BannedSpice seems so final....and you know you'd miss my boyish good looks and charm......
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  #119  
Old 10-10-2007, 02:42 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

Ok jazz snobs and metal heads. lets pull the curtain on the differences.

How about similarities...

Name:  elvin n lars.jpg
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  #120  
Old 10-10-2007, 03:14 PM
Ploumę Ploumę is offline
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Default Re: Lighten up on pro drummers guys.

I was listening to Zappa's Tinseltown Rebellion just this morning, and reading Zappafan's original post with that song playing in my head was really funny.

I hate reading threads that are basically created to rile up people and get angry reactions, but I believe this one could have been great discussion material.

There's always people who can't see the bigger picture (ie. the actual music), those will bash successful musicians over small details. Obviously though, there is nothing wrong in telling a beginner to not model his playing technique after Lars's.
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