How I Practice - Would Like Some Feedback...

[zambizzi]

I'm working pretty hard on my drumming these days and would like to get some feedback from the folks here about how I practice...and what I practice, to see if it is sufficient and what I might change to make it better.

I practice 2-3 hrs. every night, about 4-6 hrs. Saturdays and Sundays. I work at least 1 hr everyday on rudiments on the practice pad. I'll do singles, doubles, diddles, flams, drags, etc. I'll also work on cadences and snare scores that I've gotten from lessons over the last year or so.

The rest of the time is spent between my acoustic and Roland kits. I'm working through a few different books including; Complete Modern Drum Set by Frank Briggs, Jim Chapin's coordination book, 4-Way Coordination, and I'm going to buy the Drumming Bible sometime soon. I'll pick out pieces from some of the DVDs I've bought such as; Steve Smith's US Beat video, Steve Jordan's 'Groove' video, etc. I like to pick out videos from Drummerworld as well and work on them.

In addition to that I'll play along w/ music, mostly the cover songs I'm working on w/ the band and some of the original stuff we're trying to put together. I'll also work on many of the grooves & rhythms I've learned in the past like swing, bop, shuffles, latin, etc.

Like many of us, I struggle to decide on *what* to practice and often don't get around to many of the things I'd like to be working on...such as; more advanced soloing, new fill patterns, etc. I'm beginning to feel overwhelmed w/ the amount of stuff I'd *like* to work on but can't fit in. Deciding what *not* to practice and what new stuff I should work on is my biggest hang-up. I'm going in 20 different directions!

Until I can change my lifestyle to allow more practice time, this is all the time I can squeeze in w/o neglecting the rest of my life (wife, family, job, friends, etc.) I'm going to take some time off from lessons and do some heavy self-study and I'm just curious what you guys think of what I currently do...and how I should improve it. I'm disciplined and dedicated...but not as organized as I should be.

I'm thinking that I'd follow a pattern similar to my lessons; work a little on snare/rudiment technique and learn at least one new concept on the kit, every week. I think I need to work more on transcribing...as I have a knack for it but don't do it enough.

Thoughts? Opinions? Insults? Bring 'em on!

Thanks!

[mikei]

You must not have a wife and kids to practice that much. If you do, and you are working full time, I would say that you are paying WAY to much attention to the drums and not enough for your family.

If you are single or divorced or still in high school, then I believe that your routine is incredible.

Being that I am married, have a career and children, there is no possible way that I can practice more than 4 hours a week. I am lucky if I get that.

I would love to practice like you do, but I have other responsibilities that are more important.

[Melvin]

Do you have a life other than drumming? Crap you really practice a lot! If I were you I would practice a new concept every week.

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by mikei

You must not have a wife and kids to practice that much. If you do, and you are working full time, I would say that you are paying WAY to much attention to the drums and not enough for your family.

If you are single or divorced or still in high school, then I believe that your routine is incredible.

Being that I am married, have a career and children, there is no possible way that I can practice more than 4 hours a week. I am lucky if I get that.

I would love to practice like you do, but I have other responsibilities that are more important.

Actually, I do...and we've got a routine down that works well - we all get plenty of time together and I still get my practice time. That's rather beside the point, however.

I'm home by about 5pm everday...we eat dinner together and I practice from about 5:30 to 6:30 on the acoustic kit. Most times my boy will come down and practice on his kit with me (or do his own thing) - we have a big music room w/ 2 full kits.

My kids are in bed by about 9 or 9:30...we spend the rest of the evening goofing around, doing whatever, as a family. My wife does a lot of business on eBay so we'll both head downstairs after the kids hit the hay and she'll do her work...I'll hit the e-kit and the practice pad until bed. We'll hit the sack together at 12:30 or 1am....get up, do the whole thing again the next day.

I may not have mentioned that I don't require a lot of sleep...5-6 hrs. and I'm fully charged...

On the weekends I'm up very early...around 7am...I'll usually spend the morning getting most of my practice done...and we spend the rest of the day together.

I don't watch TV (very often) and I don't waste much time doing things that...well...are a waste of time. I'm very careful to budget my time and make sure everyone gets the attention they deserve.

Lately I've moved my rudiments practice to my lunch hour, when I can...and I just hit the men's locker room in my office building and use the practice pad for a while. That's helped trim a little more time out of my schedule.

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by Melvin

Do you have a life other than drumming? Crap you really practice a lot! If I were you I would practice a new concept every week.

I try to work on several but only if I'm able to do it well. I wouldn't enjoy just cramming a bunch of new licks into my head for the sake of quantity, however. I usually focus on one snare/rudiment concept and one kit concept, per week.

[Michael G]

I don't get the point of this thread. Are you trying to show-off how much practicing you do? Because I really don't seen how you would need feedback on this routine you have going on.

[fixxxer]

Having a family myself, I have to say.....WOW! I don't know how you get in that much practice time but that's neither here nor there (plus, sounds like you've been beat up enough over that). I'm happy if I can sqeeze in an uninterupted hour everyday!
I will say I have a similiar problem in that I have so much I would like to do (or work on) just not enough time. So, I wind up prioritizing the best I can and fight off the urge to stick with the things that are "just fun" or comfortable.
Forgive me for showing my ignorance, but could someone explain transcibing to me? I've seen (on posts) people talking about it, I just don't know what, exactly, it is. Maybe it's someting that I already do and just don't know it?

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by SmoothJazz

I don't get the point of this thread. Are you trying to show-off how much practicing you do? Because I really don't seen how you would need feedback on this routine you have going on.

And...what would be the point of that? I mentioned that i try not to waste any time, if I can help it.

I'm simply trying to learn how to be productive...because lately I don't feel that way. I'll learn something and put it away for weeks...and it feels counter-productive. I'm just trying to get a feel for how others practice and make the best use of their time.

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by fixxxer

Having a family myself, I have to say.....WOW! I don't know how you get in that much practice time but that's neither here nor there (plus, sounds like you've been beat up enough over that). I'm happy if I can sqeeze in an uninterupted hour everyday!

Yeah...I'm not sure why that would have even entered the discussion. I'm a little surprised at the negative vibe I've gotten in some of the replies, honestly.

Before I managed my time more carefully...I was lucky to get an hour after work.

Originally Posted by fixxxer

I will say I have a similiar problem in that I have so much I would like to do (or work on) just not enough time. So, I wind up prioritizing the best I can and fight off the urge to stick with the things that are "just fun" or comfortable.

I've fallen into that trap in the past and am conscious not to do that much, anymore. I try to think ahead about what I'm going to work on because I know if I don't, I'll fail to get anything worthwhile done. It happens, however...sometimes you just wanna lay back and do something pointless.

Originally Posted by fixxxer

Forgive me for showing my ignorance, but could someone explain transcibing to me? I've seen (on posts) people talking about it, I just don't know what, exactly, it is. Maybe it's someting that I already do and just don't know it?

Transcribing would be simply writing out something you're playing in drum notation form.

[jonescrusher]

I think it's great that you're so efficient with your time. You're really getting on with things. Maybe i'm still too young to appreciate the value of free time, cos i've got too much of it. I really should get hold of a work ethic like yours.

If you feel like you're in a rut, it maybe that there isn't so much value in the actual number of hours your sitting at a kit or pad. It's inevitable that a plateau in progress will be hit somewhere along the way. I would advise cutting back on the time spent with sticks in hand, and maybe spend the time listening to music, practising transcriptions, watching DVDs. There's no harm in taking an entire weekend off.

To avoid getting overwhelmed you need to lower your expectations in the volume of material you can learn in a space of time. Maybe dedicate an entire week to one genre of groove, and really break things down as far as possible. I've often heard stories about Vinnie getting so comfortable with odd time patterns simply by setting the click and playing solidly for 45 minutes. This all requires discipline, but is what separates the men from the boys.

Trying to take on too much usually results in exasperation and giving up. Don't overload, keep your regime simple and focussed and only play if you're enjoying it.

And you're right, way too much negativity here. People should only be impressed with you efficiency and dedication.

[Michael G]

Originally Posted by zambizzi

And...what would be the point of that? I mentioned that i try not to waste any time, if I can help it.

I'm simply trying to learn how to be productive...because lately I don't feel that way. I'll learn something and put it away for weeks...and it feels counter-productive. I'm just trying to get a feel for how others practice and make the best use of their time.

I'm just saying, there is nothing wrong with your routine. It is absolutely great, better then most people can ever achieve in time and dedication. There is no way you are not productive, I think you are just putting too much pressure on yourself and really stretching the meaning of the word "productive."

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

I think the only thing that you could improve on, like you already know, is the organization. You have planned the time and found the material, you just need to break things down in segments. You say you do rudiments for an hour, that's great. Then figure out how you want to spend that hour working on rudiments. Focus on certain things each week (for example a specific rudiment). Since you get so much time to practice, you can be really dynamic with the schedule. For example, practice rudiments each day, and maybe 4Way Coordination. That could be your first hour or two. Then a couple days out of the week, make a segment for learning a solo (or whatever). You don't have to do everything every day. Certain things I think you should work on every day, but others you could do say MWF or TT. Treat it kind of like setting up your class schedule for college


I only get a half an hour to an hour each night during the week, and usually an hour or two in the mornings on the weekend. Because of my limited time, I have broken my segments into half hours. I always practice my rudiment segment. That is what I need to improve on the most, so I make it the priority. During that segment, I focus on two rudiments for a week at a time, at varying tempos. My second segment is 4Way Coordination (from the book- which I love). I focus on a single page for a week, at varying tempos. On the weekends, I am still trying to figure how to best spend it. So far, I start with rudiments and 4Way, but then I may spend a segment doing rudiments with my feet and I really want to make a segment for my book Syncopation. I usually have band practice on the weekend, and anytime I manage to be home alone I am behind the kit being creative. I don't get much time behind the kit outside of band practice so home alone time is definitely fun. During the week I'm using elements of my Roland kit for practice, since most of the practice is done late at night when the kiddos are sleeping.

Hope this helped at all.

[jazzin']

Sounds like you've got the classic trying to do too much at once. I would suggest getting a few important things you want to really focus on from different areas like technique, style, soloing, and/or playing.

Break them down to what is most important and practice them for 2 to 3 months. This way you'll develop your vocabulary as opposed to just picking up a few things here and there even though you might feel like you've done them enough.

I slowly changed around my routine which I was always stressing about because I felt I needed to keep putting more in or something could be better etc, you know? It doesn't work. So I pulled it apart and got the really important parts of it and would simply practice those areas for a much longer time and in more detail. If I was doing 3 minutes of singles doubles diddles then moving onto drags, ruffs etc I would throw out all the stuff that I thought I could work on later eg. drags ruffs. I started doing each basic rudiment for 10 minutes each then putting them together, alternating each bar at the end. After 2 months of this they were better than they had gotten in years. Same with all the rest of my practice. Focus on one area and work it to the bone.
If you're practicing three different styles, pull it back to one or at most two but make it a large part of your routine. Say a shuffle. Take it and start out working on just the right hand: with no right hand your shuffles just don't work. Then work on putting your left hand in at each triplet partial. Thats already a lot of work. Then you've got the other two feet. That could easily take up 2 hours but it will give you co-ordination and solidity in your playing that you forgot could be had. Less but in more detail. Way to go. Also check out Kenny Werner's book on fear based practice and how our ego will make our practice counter productive. It should change the way you practice.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by zambizzi

I'm working pretty hard on my drumming these days and would like to get some feedback from the folks here about how I practice...and what I practice, to see if it is sufficient and what I might change to make it better.

I practice 2-3 hrs. every night, about 4-6 hrs. Saturdays and Sundays. I work at least 1 hr everyday on rudiments on the practice pad. I'll do singles, doubles, diddles, flams, drags, etc. I'll also work on cadences and snare scores that I've gotten from lessons over the last year or so.

The rest of the time is spent between my acoustic and Roland kits. I'm working through a few different books including; Complete Modern Drum Set by Frank Briggs, Jim Chapin's coordination book, 4-Way Coordination, and I'm going to buy the Drumming Bible sometime soon. I'll pick out pieces from some of the DVDs I've bought such as; Steve Smith's US Beat video, Steve Jordan's 'Groove' video, etc. I like to pick out videos from Drummerworld as well and work on them.

In addition to that I'll play along w/ music, mostly the cover songs I'm working on w/ the band and some of the original stuff we're trying to put together. I'll also work on many of the grooves & rhythms I've learned in the past like swing, bop, shuffles, latin, etc.

Like many of us, I struggle to decide on *what* to practice and often don't get around to many of the things I'd like to be working on...such as; more advanced soloing, new fill patterns, etc. I'm beginning to feel overwhelmed w/ the amount of stuff I'd *like* to work on but can't fit in. Deciding what *not* to practice and what new stuff I should work on is my biggest hang-up. I'm going in 20 different directions!

Until I can change my lifestyle to allow more practice time, this is all the time I can squeeze in w/o neglecting the rest of my life (wife, family, job, friends, etc.) I'm going to take some time off from lessons and do some heavy self-study and I'm just curious what you guys think of what I currently do...and how I should improve it. I'm disciplined and dedicated...but not as organized as I should be.

I'm thinking that I'd follow a pattern similar to my lessons; work a little on snare/rudiment technique and learn at least one new concept on the kit, every week. I think I need to work more on transcribing...as I have a knack for it but don't do it enough.

Thoughts? Opinions? Insults? Bring 'em on!

Thanks!

Well, in my opinion it sounds like you've basically listed your ideal practice time; by that I mean that you have said basically all the "right things" about a practice regiment whether or not it's actually what you do.

I'm married, and find a few hours a day in which I can drum, and my wife understands how important that is to me, so I do see your angle. It's just that saying "I work on rudiments like singles, doubles, flams" in actuality doesn't exactly follow a process. For me I practice two or three of them at any given time, and that's all. I'm just saying that giving a list like that comes across as 'your trying to say all the right things'.

Dude, I don't mean any negativity to this, but I know a little something about this forum from reading it and talking like this will come across as "look how much I practice". Try Donati's forum, as I find people there can actually give you good advice on this kind of intense practicing.

[JCM]

I would echo jazzin's sentiments and say you are definetely doing a lot. I am impressed with your dedication and discipline its a great thing to have. You said that sometimes you would do rudiments during your lunch hour, to me, it seems like your practicing for the sake of ''trimming'' the time. Your frustration is most likely coming from the sheer volume of material. You should look at your practice schedule as a six week schedule with a review every six weeks. My current schedule is 30mins Hand Technique, 30mins Foot Technique, 15mins Groove Essentials, 10mins Rudiment, 10mins New Breed & 1 hour of playing along to songs and this is going to be my schedule for the next 5 weeks! Because I only have a practice kit I do not much groove work because I cannot hear if what I am playing is really working. My schedule before including a lot of things but it was not working for me so I had to change it. Reduce amount of material you are working and set specific goals for the material you are going to work on. Also going to basics for cannot hurt, if anything it should improve your playing!

[Davidb59]

Originally Posted by mikei

You must not have a wife and kids to practice that much. If you do, and you are working full time, I would say that you are paying WAY to much attention to the drums and not enough for your family.

If you are single or divorced or still in high school, then I believe that your routine is incredible.

Being that I am married, have a career and children, there is no possible way that I can practice more than 4 hours a week. I am lucky if I get that.

I would love to practice like you do, but I have other responsibilities that are more important.

I'll second that.

People talk about about how many years they have been playing. For me it's coming up on two but my time is so limited that some people probably do more in a day than I get to do in a month. I too would love to play more.

[jazzin']

Not to be rude but he's not asking whether he spends enough time with the wife and kids. He's asking if you can help him out with his practice routine on a drumming forum.

[rhythmjunkie]

Originally Posted by Adam

Well, in my opinion it sounds like you've basically listed your ideal practice time; by that I mean that you have said basically all the "right things" about a practice regiment whether or not it's actually what you do.

I'm married, and find a few hours a day in which I can drum, and my wife understands how important that is to me, so I do see your angle. It's just that saying "I work on rudiments like singles, doubles, flams" in actuality doesn't exactly follow a process. For me I practice two or three of them at any given time, and that's all. I'm just saying that giving a list like that comes across as 'your trying to say all the right things'.

Dude, I don't mean any negativity to this, but I know a little something about this forum from reading it and talking like this will come across as "look how much I practice". Try Donati's forum, as I find people there can actually give you good advice on this kind of intense practicing.

Hell Yeah. I'm totally feeling the pride vibes

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by jonescrusher

If you feel like you're in a rut, it maybe that there isn't so much value in the actual number of hours your sitting at a kit or pad. It's inevitable that a plateau in progress will be hit somewhere along the way. I would advise cutting back on the time spent with sticks in hand, and maybe spend the time listening to music, practising transcriptions, watching DVDs. There's no harm in taking an entire weekend off.

I think you might be right here, maybe for a week or so, less would be more. I've got 3 days coming up where I'm out of town for a company meeting...this might be a good opportunity for more intense listening & watching!

Originally Posted by jonescrusher

To avoid getting overwhelmed you need to lower your expectations in the volume of material you can learn in a space of time. Maybe dedicate an entire week to one genre of groove, and really break things down as far as possible. I've often heard stories about Vinnie getting so comfortable with odd time patterns simply by setting the click and playing solidly for 45 minutes. This all requires discipline, but is what separates the men from the boys.

You're absolutely right, here. I think I've got this anxiety that my progress will be wasted if I don't maintain *everything* I've learned. I think it'd be good to take an entire lesson and devote it to my right foot...or my double stroke...or any smaller unit of playing. This is solid advice that I'll definitely consider.

Thanks a lot JC!

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ

I think the only thing that you could improve on, like you already know, is the organization. You have planned the time and found the material, you just need to break things down in segments. You say you do rudiments for an hour, that's great. Then figure out how you want to spend that hour working on rudiments. Focus on certain things each week (for example a specific rudiment). Since you get so much time to practice, you can be really dynamic with the schedule. For example, practice rudiments each day, and maybe 4Way Coordination. That could be your first hour or two. Then a couple days out of the week, make a segment for learning a solo (or whatever). You don't have to do everything every day. Certain things I think you should work on every day, but others you could do say MWF or TT. Treat it kind of like setting up your class schedule for college


I only get a half an hour to an hour each night during the week, and usually an hour or two in the mornings on the weekend. Because of my limited time, I have broken my segments into half hours. I always practice my rudiment segment. That is what I need to improve on the most, so I make it the priority. During that segment, I focus on two rudiments for a week at a time, at varying tempos. My second segment is 4Way Coordination (from the book- which I love). I focus on a single page for a week, at varying tempos. On the weekends, I am still trying to figure how to best spend it. So far, I start with rudiments and 4Way, but then I may spend a segment doing rudiments with my feet and I really want to make a segment for my book Syncopation. I usually have band practice on the weekend, and anytime I manage to be home alone I am behind the kit being creative. I don't get much time behind the kit outside of band practice so home alone time is definitely fun. During the week I'm using elements of my Roland kit for practice, since most of the practice is done late at night when the kiddos are sleeping.

Hope this helped at all.

I like this idea - I liken this approach to a workout schedule. One day you might do cardio and the next day, you might do some weight lifting on your legs. I like the idea of focusing on just one thing for one practice session at-a-time, like Jonescrusher also suggested.

I'm loving the 4-Way book, BTW! I was doing something similar w/ Stick Control but it's nice to have it laid out in proper notation.

It sounds like we have a similar situation, overall - I too, end up doing the majority of my practice on my Roland kit after the kids hit the sack. I'm not extremely happy w/ the Roland kit, however, and feel like it's only good for working out grooves, coordiantion, etc. It's useless for realistic dynamics, intricate accents, and things that require a subtle touch. I thought about buying mutes for my acoustic kit (again) and trying that for a while.

When will you be done w/ your book?

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by jazzin'

Sounds like you've got the classic trying to do too much at once.

Ha! Correct! I don't feel like I'm progressing at any one thing at this point...it's definitely time to put some things up on the shelf and learn to focus.

Originally Posted by jazzin'

Break them down to what is most important and practice them for 2 to 3 months. This way you'll develop your vocabulary as opposed to just picking up a few things here and there even though you might feel like you've done them enough.

This is what bothers me. There are areas that I might have spent time learning (say, shuffles, for example) and I feel like if I don't hit them regularly, my chops will become shabby in that area. How can you spend 2-3 mo. on soloing and then not see other skills erode a little?

I can see now why some drummers pick a genre and avoid everything else...even though I *definitely* don't want to do this. It comes down to a "jack of all trades and master of none" scenario.

How do you maintain the stuff you're not focusing on? Maybe take one lesson out of your week to touch on it?

Originally Posted by jazzin'

I slowly changed around my routine which I was always stressing about because I felt I needed to keep putting more in or something could be better etc, you know? It doesn't work. So I pulled it apart and got the really important parts of it and would simply practice those areas for a much longer time and in more detail. If I was doing 3 minutes of singles doubles diddles then moving onto drags, ruffs etc I would throw out all the stuff that I thought I could work on later eg. drags ruffs. I started doing each basic rudiment for 10 minutes each then putting them together, alternating each bar at the end. After 2 months of this they were better than they had gotten in years. Same with all the rest of my practice. Focus on one area and work it to the bone.
If you're practicing three different styles, pull it back to one or at most two but make it a large part of your routine. Say a shuffle. Take it and start out working on just the right hand: with no right hand your shuffles just don't work. Then work on putting your left hand in at each triplet partial. Thats already a lot of work. Then you've got the other two feet. That could easily take up 2 hours but it will give you co-ordination and solidity in your playing that you forgot could be had. Less but in more detail. Way to go. Also check out Kenny Werner's book on fear based practice and how our ego will make our practice counter productive. It should change the way you practice.

I love the idea of putting rudiments together...I'll *definitely* do this as a way to shake up my rudiment sessions. I like the cadences and solos I've worked on but I'd like to work toward improvising more w/ rudiments...your idea might help a lot w/ that.

I'll check out the book too, thanks!

[mikei]

Originally Posted by zambizzi

Actually, I do...and we've got a routine down that works well - we all get plenty of time together and I still get my practice time. That's rather beside the point, however.

I'm home by about 5pm everday...we eat dinner together and I practice from about 5:30 to 6:30 on the acoustic kit. Most times my boy will come down and practice on his kit with me (or do his own thing) - we have a big music room w/ 2 full kits.

My kids are in bed by about 9 or 9:30...we spend the rest of the evening goofing around, doing whatever, as a family. My wife does a lot of business on eBay so we'll both head downstairs after the kids hit the hay and she'll do her work...I'll hit the e-kit and the practice pad until bed. We'll hit the sack together at 12:30 or 1am....get up, do the whole thing again the next day.

I may not have mentioned that I don't require a lot of sleep...5-6 hrs. and I'm fully charged...

On the weekends I'm up very early...around 7am...I'll usually spend the morning getting most of my practice done...and we spend the rest of the day together.

I don't watch TV (very often) and I don't waste much time doing things that...well...are a waste of time. I'm very careful to budget my time and make sure everyone gets the attention they deserve.

Lately I've moved my rudiments practice to my lunch hour, when I can...and I just hit the men's locker room in my office building and use the practice pad for a while. That's helped trim a little more time out of my schedule.

I see. Shame on me for making a rash judgement. Please accept my humble apology.

I am contemplating building a studio in the back yard. My wife is really pushing to do it. Lucky me.

If that happens, then I will be able to practice after they go to sleep. The kids are in bed by 830 and the wife goes to bed at the same time (unless I am getting lucky!). I am usually up until 11PM. If I build the studio out back, I would play those additional hours for sure.

It is cool that your son is getting into with you. My daughters like to bang on them, but haven't shown an interest in actually learning to play. They enjoy their cheerleading and other girly stuff.

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by mikei

I see. Shame on me for making a rash judgement. Please accept my humble apology.

I am contemplating building a studio in the back yard. My wife is really pushing to do it. Lucky me.

If that happens, then I will be able to practice after they go to sleep. The kids are in bed by 830 and the wife goes to bed at the same time (unless I am getting lucky!). I am usually up until 11PM. If I build the studio out back, I would play those additional hours for sure.

It is cool that your son is getting into with you. My daughters like to bang on them, but haven't shown an interest in actually learning to play. They enjoy their cheerleading and other girly stuff.

Oh dude, don't sweat it - no offense taken.

As for building a studio - do it! Nothing helps you focus better than a good jam spot. We moved into our new house about 3 mo. ago and we picked this house because of the big finished basement. I built sound-proof doors and I seal myself in there when I use the acoustic kit...it's perfect. At the old place, I used a spare bedroom and it was just crap. My guitar player stood so close the kick drum...I'm sure his sperm count is down about 90% now.

As for the kids - it's gotta come from within. I don't pressure mine at all. My son, who is 8, now practices on his own about 20 min. a day...maybe 3x a week - without any prompting or suggestion. He showed very little interest, at first. My little girl is only 4 but she likes to sit there and tap on the toms when we're hanging out downstairs.

They both show interest in instruments of all kinds so we try to encourage it...but don't push them to do anything they don't want to. The same goes for sports and other activities.

[mikei]

Originally Posted by zambizzi

Oh dude, don't sweat it - no offense taken.

As for building a studio - do it! Nothing helps you focus better than a good jam spot. We moved into our new house about 3 mo. ago and we picked this house because of the big finished basement. I built sound-proof doors and I seal myself in there when I use the acoustic kit...it's perfect. At the old place, I used a spare bedroom and it was just crap. My guitar player stood so close the kick drum...I'm sure his sperm count is down about 90% now.

As for the kids - it's gotta come from within. I don't pressure mine at all. My son, who is 8, now practices on his own about 20 min. a day...maybe 3x a week - without any prompting or suggestion. He showed very little interest, at first. My little girl is only 4 but she likes to sit there and tap on the toms when we're hanging out downstairs.

They both show interest in instruments of all kinds so we try to encourage it...but don't push them to do anything they don't want to. The same goes for sports and other activities.

I definitely do not push them to do anything they do not want to do. I tell them to live life for themselves, not for me. I have lived a great life. I want them to have as much fun as I had growing up. I only push them to do good in school. I want them to do the very best they can. Oh, and they need to put their shoes away!!

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by mikei

Oh, and they need to put their shoes away!!

Ha! Good luck w/ that...

Did you ever see that episode of the Simpsons where they're teaching the dog to obey...and from the dog's perspective it was "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, FOOD, blah blah..."

Yep.

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

Originally Posted by zambizzi

I'm not extremely happy w/ the Roland kit, however, and feel like it's only good for working out grooves, coordiantion, etc. It's useless for realistic dynamics, intricate accents, and things that require a subtle touch.

When will you be done w/ your book?

I agree about the Roland. Even with sensitive settings it's not like the real thing, so I have to keep that in mind when I practice. When I am working out my rudiments, I'm playing accents and watching the height (and noting the feel) of the sticks to make sure I'm really playing accents even though it might not trigger that way. The most disappointing is when you try to do buzz rolls. I was wondering if a mesh pad would help with that, a better module (I have TD6), or both.

It will be a long time before I finish my 4Way book. Hah! It is quite a challenge though. I feel like I should have ninja skills by the time I am done with it. heheheh

[jazzin']

Originally Posted by zambizzi

This is what bothers me. There are areas that I might have spent time learning (say, shuffles, for example) and I feel like if I don't hit them regularly, my chops will become shabby in that area. How can you spend 2-3 mo. on soloing and then not see other skills erode a little?

I can see now why some drummers pick a genre and avoid everything else...even though I *definitely* don't want to do this. It comes down to a "jack of all trades and master of none" scenario.

How do you maintain the stuff you're not focusing on? Maybe take one lesson out of your week to touch on it?

The whole point of spending that much time on a specific topic is that by the end of those 2 or even 3 months they will be so ingrained in your vocabulary and memory that they will stay good for a long time afterwards. You won't have to keep coming backj to them like you would if you only spend a little bit of time each day on it while doing a pile of other stuff as well. Also, this type of intense focused practiced pays huge dividends across the board, meaning, that if you focus on a shuffle for three months I guarantee that after that three months the solidity and preciseness of that groove will cross over into your other grooves.

If you take two drummers of the same ability that practice the same amount, the one that focuses much more intensely on one subject will still play better than the guy who focuses on a bunch of different ones. This type of practice has so much crossover effect, you will be stunned at the overall benefits you see in a funk groove even though you've only practiced this shuffle for 2 months. It is basically due to the mental and physical leaps your mind and body make with such intense practice. Your limbs really start understanding what it means to work together when you focus like this and the independence becomes ingrained in a way that it is there indefinitely no matter what groove or style you play.
It comes down to the difference between pattern independence (as you described above: you learn a pattern and can play it but the benefits end there. They won't cross over into your other playing and you will forget it quickly) and actual internalised vocabulary independence.

Also, I would practice soloing as part of the groove or style I am practicing at that point. So I would break the session into the style/groove practice and then style or groove specific soloing. I don't practice just soloing as a separate entity. It is more based around practicing ideas that relate to the specific style/groove/pattern/whatever that is the focus at that point. I also don't practice actual soloing per se. It is completely based around developing ideas that are at once specific to whatever I'm doing but can also be changed to whatever style I'm playing in. Improvisation, not licks practice. So, using the shuffle again, I would use a small part of the session to practice triplet combo's that focus on a set area, maybe between the snare, bass and ride or hi hats at first. After you have those ingrained, all those stickings and phrases that you internalised could simply be transfered across different areas of the kit.

I can pretty much guarantee that this is the best type of practice a muso can do. It is difficult simply because it tests your patience. People are so in need of immediate results that they practice ten thousand things at once thinking they are getting somewhere because they have just finished 23 different exercises in a session, little realising that none of it will be internalised and actually usable in any playing situation.

Take six months out of the next 40 years of your practice routine (don't forget, it's a lifelong journey. You don't need to have everything done by the end of the week) and give it a go. If you persist and do it properly you will never look back. If not you will keep falling into these fits of worry and disorganisation about what, how much, how long and why you should be doing things.

[JCM]

Good post jazzin! Cleared up a lot things for me!

[jazzin']

Originally Posted by JCM

Good post jazzin! Cleared up a lot things for me!

No worries man. Happy that it helped! :)

[fat in the middle]

Joni Mitchell always said that mixing the arts is a good way to cross pollinate. Her painting helped her music, and vica versa. I wish i could practice more, as i don't have a studio now, and forced to the pad,,but i do know that drumming can have the tendancy these days to become sports oriented. Chop fests, where the artistic storytelling is lost, as we can sometimes concentrate on the technical. I do commend the person who can organize their time, but would place a time slot in there for the improvised. After all, we are storytellers.
someone said; success is measured by how we deal with our disappointments.

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by jazzin'

The whole point of spending that much time on a specific topic is that by the end of those 2 or even 3 months they will be so ingrained in your vocabulary and memory that they will stay good for a long time afterwards. You won't have to keep coming backj to them like you would if you only spend a little bit of time each day on it while doing a pile of other stuff as well. Also, this type of intense focused practiced pays huge dividends across the board, meaning, that if you focus on a shuffle for three months I guarantee that after that three months the solidity and preciseness of that groove will cross over into your other grooves.

If you take two drummers of the same ability that practice the same amount, the one that focuses much more intensely on one subject will still play better than the guy who focuses on a bunch of different ones. This type of practice has so much crossover effect, you will be stunned at the overall benefits you see in a funk groove even though you've only practiced this shuffle for 2 months. It is basically due to the mental and physical leaps your mind and body make with such intense practice. Your limbs really start understanding what it means to work together when you focus like this and the independence becomes ingrained in a way that it is there indefinitely no matter what groove or style you play.
It comes down to the difference between pattern independence (as you described above: you learn a pattern and can play it but the benefits end there. They won't cross over into your other playing and you will forget it quickly) and actual internalised vocabulary independence.

Also, I would practice soloing as part of the groove or style I am practicing at that point. So I would break the session into the style/groove practice and then style or groove specific soloing. I don't practice just soloing as a separate entity. It is more based around practicing ideas that relate to the specific style/groove/pattern/whatever that is the focus at that point. I also don't practice actual soloing per se. It is completely based around developing ideas that are at once specific to whatever I'm doing but can also be changed to whatever style I'm playing in. Improvisation, not licks practice. So, using the shuffle again, I would use a small part of the session to practice triplet combo's that focus on a set area, maybe between the snare, bass and ride or hi hats at first. After you have those ingrained, all those stickings and phrases that you internalised could simply be transfered across different areas of the kit.

I can pretty much guarantee that this is the best type of practice a muso can do. It is difficult simply because it tests your patience. People are so in need of immediate results that they practice ten thousand things at once thinking they are getting somewhere because they have just finished 23 different exercises in a session, little realising that none of it will be internalised and actually usable in any playing situation.

Take six months out of the next 40 years of your practice routine (don't forget, it's a lifelong journey. You don't need to have everything done by the end of the week) and give it a go. If you persist and do it properly you will never look back. If not you will keep falling into these fits of worry and disorganisation about what, how much, how long and why you should be doing things.

Excellent, excellent post, man...thanks very much. This was the meat n' taters I was looking for when starting this topic - you got to the heart of it. Something has to change in what I'm doing or I won't feel I'm making very much progress for all of my time spent. I have spent, at the most, maybe one week on a single topic or two before adding something new...and you're absolutely right - it melted right into my playing style from that point forward. The few Latin rhythms I've learned is a great example - I've definitely incorporated those concepts into some of my rock beats since.

Do you feel as if your playing style becomes heavily influenced w/ the concept you're working on, when you do this?

Great insight, thanks again.

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by fat in the middle

Joni Mitchell always said that mixing the arts is a good way to cross pollinate. Her painting helped her music, and vica versa. I wish i could practice more, as i don't have a studio now, and forced to the pad,,but i do know that drumming can have the tendancy these days to become sports oriented. Chop fests, where the artistic storytelling is lost, as we can sometimes concentrate on the technical. I do commend the person who can organize their time, but would place a time slot in there for the improvised. After all, we are storytellers.
someone said; success is measured by how we deal with our disappointments.

Good post! Excellent point. I agree and this is why I tend to scoff at folks who focus on speed rather than style and originality. I see a lot of folks posting speed records on the forums and it always makes me think to myself.."yeah...what's the point of that?" It makes me think of someone sitting down at a piano and using 2 fingers to just hammer at the keys as fast as they physically can. It seems pointless. So you can do 1000 strokes per minute...where would this fit, musically?

Anyhow, thanks!

[sio_13]

it sounds to me like your practicing routine is great, keep up with it as much as you do (its more than discipline put in than anyone i know, myself included) and no doubt you'll progress quickly, but remember its supposed to be fun. get on the kit and just jam for a while, without thinking about it so hard- your hard work will automatically show through it. also try recording yourself and then listen back to it. that should tell you what you should work on a bit more as well as what you've already got dialed. it works for me, anyways.

[jazzin']

Originally Posted by zambizzi

Do you feel as if your playing style becomes heavily influenced w/ the concept you're working on, when you do this?

Great insight, thanks again.

In general, yes, everything does become influenced by this type of practice. You can't really help it. When you work on something for so long, so intensely then it is immediately part of your playing as much as that rock beat you learned ten years ago. Just a little tip: If you do consider doing this type of thing, don't do any topic for less than one month. Three weeks or even two might seem enough but you're still only getting partial benefits that won't completely cross over into everything you do. I would really go for nothing less than two months.
Also do it with every part of playing. Technique: focus on the four main rudiments for 2 months. Single, double, diddle and buzz roll. Just try each one out for ten minutes a day plus some exercises incorporating all four together. These are, after all, what you use most most when playing so to get these really together is immensely beneficial.
Anyways, I hope it works out. Have a look at that book I mentioned a while back. You'll love it.

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by jazzin'

In general, yes, everything does become influenced by this type of practice. You can't really help it. When you work on something for so long, so intensely then it is immediately part of your playing as much as that rock beat you learned ten years ago. Just a little tip: If you do consider doing this type of thing, don't do any topic for less than one month. Three weeks or even two might seem enough but you're still only getting partial benefits that won't completely cross over into everything you do. I would really go for nothing less than two months.
Also do it with every part of playing. Technique: focus on the four main rudiments for 2 months. Single, double, diddle and buzz roll. Just try each one out for ten minutes a day plus some exercises incorporating all four together. These are, after all, what you use most most when playing so to get these really together is immensely beneficial.
Anyways, I hope it works out. Have a look at that book I mentioned a while back. You'll love it.

Hey jazzin', wanted to thank you again. I've cut lessons down to twice a month and have asked my drum teacher to stick to a single topic for that month. In my own practice, I've cut down the sheer volume and focused on less quantity...and my playing is definitely improving. So, thanks!

Also, is this the book you were referring to?

http://www.amazon.com/Effortless-Mas...3338503&sr=8-2

[Victor_se]

Originally Posted by zambizzi

I'll do singles, doubles, diddles, flams, drags, etc.

sorry my ignorance but

What the Hell is a Drag!

[zambizzi]

Think of it as a flam but the hand that would do the ghost note would do a quick 2-note buzz, instead.

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/rudiments/31drag.html