Considering stopping lessons for a while...

[zambizzi]

This is something I've been pouring over in my mind for a few months now, I thought it'd be good to get some feedback from the good folks on the DW forums. I realize this topic isn't unique but everyone's experience IS, so I'll elaborate on mine.

I've been taking lessons from a local pro for about 9 mo. now...actually it would be 8, since we skipped a month around the beginning of the year. Anyhow, I was raised around the drums having a dad who made a living professionally from playing since he was 16. I didn't take many lessons as a kid and never had a drum kit to practice on...just a pad. However, internally, I've always been a drummer. I was always practicing in my mind...have always listened to music and always paid the most attention the drumming...tapping on my legs, pots and pans, pillows, the steering wheel, whatever. Drumming has always been in my heart.

When I turned 28 I finally bought a drum kit, just for fun. I rarely played but as time went on...I was more attracted to it as more rhythms and patters would come out of me. Finally, last fall I started my lessons and have not missed a single day of practice since...usually practicing 2 to 3 hrs. every night...and 4 to 5 on weekend days.

I've learned quite a bit and lessons were really exciting for the first 5 months or so. I've learned the basics (of course) such as rudiments, stick control. Also, how to read charts fairly fluently (good sight-reading), counting, coordination, independence, timing, and several different styles of music including jazz (i.e. swing, bop, etc.), blues, rock, hip-hop, African, Afro-Cuban, and other Latin styles. I've gotten fairly good at practicing well, not just sitting down and throwing chops around like I would in the beginning of my lessons.

I'm extremely dedicated and I've gotten to the point where I think I might be teaching myself a lot more than I'm getting from my recent lessons. Now, I'm not knocking my drum teacher. He's a great drummer and I really look up to him. He's also a great guy and we've become good friends, I still look forward to lessons every week because they're fun and enjoyable. However, I'm not sure that I'm getting as much out of them as I once was and I'm not sure he's keeping up w/ my level of progress. He is a much better drummer than I am but we seem to be moving at a very slow pace...and there are the occasional lessons that feel flat-out worthless to me. That isn't to say that I can't learn from everything he shows me...but rather it isn't anything that I haven't dabbled in or am not aware of already through my own practicing (I'll provide examples if this ruffles any feathers out there :) I've mentioned to him several times that I could probably handle a bigger "work-load" for the amount of time I'm practicing every week...but for whatever reason, the pace remains very slow. I understand that it's good to take time and really internalize a concept...and I do - I'm still practicing material he gave me in my first few lessons - this this day!

So, that being said - would it be advisable to take, say 6 months, and just go through a period of self-study? There are a few books & DVDs that I have that I'd like to spend time working on and practicing that are more in the direction that I feel I'd like to go right now. I thought I'd do this for a while and then get back with him (or another teacher if he's not available) and have myself re-assessed at that point.

What are some thoughts and opinions on this? What are others' experiences?

[IDDrummer]

There comes a point where you don't need a "teacher" so much as a "coach." It sounds like you may be at that point. You can take time off from lessons or you can look for a coach, your choice. Your coach could even be your current teacher, if he were willing to adapt to that role.

The thing you want to be careful of is this - you don't want to pick up and ingrain any bad habits while you aren't with a teacher or coach.

I might arrange to have check-ups, as you mentioned, every month or so. Just go in, show what you've been working on, and ask for tips and feedback.

Everybody's path is different. You have to decide for yourself, but your idea seems reasonable to me.

[Muckster]

Have you talked to this guy about how your lessons are going?

You might be ready to move on to another teacher or self study for awhile. You might think about long distance instruction every couple of months as well. Nothing wrong with self-study but it's nice to have a coach check out your technique from time to time.

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by Muckster

Have you talked to this guy about how your lessons are going?

You might be ready to move on to another teacher or self study for awhile. You might think about long distance instruction every couple of months as well. Nothing wrong with self-study but it's nice to have a coach check out your technique from time to time.

We talk about it quite a bit...nearly every lesson. I remind him all the time about what I'm doing outside of lessons and what I've learned but the pace remains slow, most of the time.

I like the suggestion about less-frequent instruction...and this just might be the way I go. I've also thought about other teachers and have talked to a couple...but the choices are pretty limited in this area, as far as I can see.

However, another perspective might be just what I need! Perhaps I can pay for a lesson or two w/ someone else just to get a fresh look at where I'm going w/ my drumming.

Thanks!

[jangus]

Getting a couple lessons with a different teacher is always refreshing. Maybe you should take less lessons, say once a month. I think 6 months is too long of a time to go without some guidance as it always helps to have someone else review your technique and playing.

Amen. Once a teacher has taken you through the rudiments and gives you a solid technical foundation, I believe the rest is up to you. I can learn a lot more by just listening and watching someone than reading notes on a page. I can read just enough to figure out something, but find reading music to be useless in a situation such as mine. However, I do respect and appreciate the more academic members of this form that can take a question and intellectually break it down and explain it in a way that I usually don't entirely understand, but I know they know what their talking about. Thirty years ago I would have had hell with books like Advanced Techniques, etc. since there obviously wasn't a CD provided with the music. At this point in my playing it just doesn't make since for me to pay someone $30 a week for something I can do at the house on my own, although like I stated previously I do believe lessons are imperative for the beginner to keep the bad habits from forming and for developing a solid foundation to build on.

Originally Posted by IDDrummer

There comes a point where you don't need a "teacher" so much as a "coach." It sounds like you may be at that point. You can take time off from lessons or you can look for a coach, your choice. Your coach could even be your current teacher, if he were willing to adapt to that role.

The thing you want to be careful of is this - you don't want to pick up and ingrain any bad habits while you aren't with a teacher or coach.

I might arrange to have check-ups, as you mentioned, every month or so. Just go in, show what you've been working on, and ask for tips and feedback.

Everybody's path is different. You have to decide for yourself, but your idea seems reasonable to me.

[ledzepjb]

You should take some time off lessons and take your own path for a while to see what''your''style is and to find things out alone.

[Thrash Drummer]

I completely agree. After my lessons started to become "pointless", I quit and started playing what appealed most to me. It's been about a year without lessons now and I've progressed MUCH more than I would have under the instruction of a teacher. Just go to concerts, get dvds or watch stuff on youtube, it all helps.
Find your style.

[Vinnysimmo]

"I still look forward to lessons every week because they're fun and enjoyable."

Thts the point, surely?

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by Vinnysimmo

"I still look forward to lessons every week because they're fun and enjoyable."

Thts the point, surely?

No, the point is; I'm there to learn. There are plenty of other things I can do that are fun and enjoyable that won't cost me that much money, per-hour.

The idea of taking lessons, in my mind, is to gain skill in something as quickly as possible, faster than I would on my own. Yes, it should be fun but that is not the top priority.

[crazyhorse]

I recently started taking lessons again... not because I wanted to get better necesarily but more to broaden my experience. I've had the same instructor for about 10 years off and on and John always manages to find something that'll drive me insane trying to play it. It's stuff that I probably wouldn't do on my own so it's worth it to me.

[fijjibo]

Originally Posted by crazyhorse

I recently started taking lessons again... not because I wanted to get better necesarily but more to broaden my experience. I've had the same instructor for about 10 years off and on and John always manages to find something that'll drive me insane trying to play it. It's stuff that I probably wouldn't do on my own so it's worth it to me.

Thats what lessons were for me.

Now Im going to study with a professional drummer who can help me learn Bob Armstrong technique.

[Jon Cable]

I had 3 weeks lessons when I was 11yo and apart from that I've self learned, I aint Buddy but there is so much info on the net I don't feel that we need a teacher apart from needing feedback, mebbeee Im wrong cos Im a crap drummer but Im having fun.....

[That Guy]

There is always the possiblity that you are a great student and have progressed extremely well and your teacher has taken you as far as he can basically. You might have become more proficient as a student than he is as a teacher, and he is now just collecting funds. Remember there is a financial agenda on his part, not saying that he doesn't care about your progress. Who knows?

I like the idea of checking out another perspective. Even though your choices are limited, that limited choice might be just what you need and are looking for.

Your post is very informative and detailed. Very well thoughout. I can only suggest that you DO NOT stop taking lessons. Cutting back on them wont hurt, but DO NOT stop. It appears that you are in a very crucial stage of learning. Your at the point in your learning where you know what you want and which direction you want to go. And, what you want is based on a VERY INFORMED and KNOWLEDABLE nature of your playing. Alot of drummers make a bad decision at this stage. They drop thier lessons and begin to develop bad habits right at the point where they are about to cross a fundamental stage... (Perfecting Your Playin Abilities).

Sure, its monotonous... but its what you need. Maybe check out some other instructors/coaches. It can't hurt. Whatever you do.. don't stop taking lessons.

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by That Guy

There is always the possiblity that you are a great student and have progressed extremely well and your teacher has taken you as far as he can basically. You might have become more proficient as a student than he is as a teacher, and he is now just collecting funds. Remember there is a financial agenda on his part, not saying that he doesn't care about your progress. Who knows?

I like the idea of checking out another perspective. Even though your choices are limited, that limited choice might be just what you need and are looking for.

Your post is very informative and detailed. Very well thoughout. I can only suggest that you DO NOT stop taking lessons. Cutting back on them wont hurt, but DO NOT stop. It appears that you are in a very crucial stage of learning. Your at the point in your learning where you know what you want and which direction you want to go. And, what you want is based on a VERY INFORMED and KNOWLEDABLE nature of your playing. Alot of drummers make a bad decision at this stage. They drop thier lessons and begin to develop bad habits right at the point where they are about to cross a fundamental stage... (Perfecting Your Playin Abilities).

Sure, its monotonous... but its what you need. Maybe check out some other instructors/coaches. It can't hurt. Whatever you do.. don't stop taking lessons.

Great reply, thank you.

If it appeared to be well thought out, that's because it was. I really don't *want* to stop taking lessons, honestly. I think what I might not have articulated so well is exactly what you've said - my current drum teacher may have taken me as far as he can as a teacher. That's the thing; I think, as a drummer, he's literally got volumes to learn from...but it's not coming through in the teaching at quite the pace that I'm advancing myself, on my own. Hopefully that isn't babble...it's 2am and I've had more wine than I usually would! :D At this point these lessons aren't giving me that "whooo yeah" boost every week that they once were...which is sort of a bummer.

I think what you've said (and other have too) - is that a few, less frequent lessons from another teacher might be a healthy direction for now. I doubt there will be a time in my life, going forward, where i'm not studying under *someone* at least on the "coach" level.

Thanks That Guy - and everyone else, of course!

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by zambizzi

Great reply, thank you.

If it appeared to be well thought out, that's because it was. I really don't *want* to stop taking lessons, honestly. I think what I might not have articulated so well is exactly what you've said - my current drum teacher may have taken me as far as he can as a teacher. That's the thing; I think, as a drummer, he's literally got volumes to learn from...but it's not coming through in the teaching at quite the pace that I'm advancing myself, on my own. Hopefully that isn't babble...it's 2am and I've had more wine than I usually would! :D At this point these lessons aren't giving me that "whooo yeah" boost every week that they once were...which is sort of a bummer.

I think what you've said (and other have too) - is that a few, less frequent lessons from another teacher might be a healthy direction for now. I doubt there will be a time in my life, going forward, where i'm not studying under *someone* at least on the "coach" level.

Thanks That Guy - and everyone else, of course!

Your welcome! I figured thats what you were trying to get across in your thread. I would like to think that I just helped to simplify it. I had quite a few beers when I wrote my response too. I was also wondering if it would come across as senseless babble.. lol.

[ledzepjb]

Change teachers, get a better one that someone you know has already had. The new teacher may find flaws in your technique that your current one couldnt find. Look at it as '' somebody that is double checking your technique''.

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by ledzepjb

Change teachers, get a better one that someone you know has already had. The new teacher may find flaws in your technique that your current one couldnt find. Look at it as '' somebody that is double checking your technique''.

That's pretty sound advice...but there really aren't many to choose from here. Most drummers who offer lessons around here prefer beginners - probably due to the relative weakness of the music scene here. I think there are a lot of good drummers here...just not a lot of teachers to choose from.

I think beginners are more equitable to drum teachers in a business sense. They require less effort and can be more easily managed in larger numbers. That's fine, I can understand that...it's just an observation.

[dairyairman]

Originally Posted by zambizzi

Finally, last fall I started my lessons and have not missed a single day of practice since...usually practicing 2 to 3 hrs. every night...and 4 to 5 on weekend days.

I've learned quite a bit and lessons were really exciting for the first 5 months or so. I've learned the basics (of course) such as rudiments, stick control. Also, how to read charts fairly fluently (good sight-reading), counting, coordination, independence, timing, and several different styles of music including jazz (i.e. swing, bop, etc.), blues, rock, hip-hop, African, Afro-Cuban, and other Latin styles. I've gotten fairly good at practicing well, not just sitting down and throwing chops around like I would in the beginning of my lessons.

i noticed some things here. for one, it looks like you didn't really get going with drums until you got a teacher. it also looks like you're progressed very fast and far in a short period since you've been taking lessons. and finally it looks like you've learned a lot of diverse things from your teacher that you probably wouldn't have looked at otherwise. i'd say you have much to thank him for, and you should stay with him if you can. one thing a teacher can do for you is keep you motivated and working on new things. if you drop your teacher, you might end up getting lazy and possibly slipping back into the mode you were in before you started taking lessons. maybe you can work something out where you're pretty much doing what you want and setting your own pace but he's helping you along with whatever you're doing. i take lessons myself, and that's kind of the relationship i have with my teacher.

[zambizzi]

Originally Posted by dairyairman

i noticed some things here. for one, it looks like you didn't really get going with drums until you got a teacher.

You're mostly right...the interest was always there and growing and I likely would have played more and more...however I wanted to learn serious technique, how to read, etc. I wanted to "blast off" instead of lurching along on my own.

Originally Posted by dairyairman

it also looks like you're progressed very fast and far in a short period since you've been taking lessons. and finally it looks like you've learned a lot of diverse things from your teacher that you probably wouldn't have looked at otherwise. i'd say you have much to thank him for, and you should stay with him if you can.

True, it might have taken me years to get to some of the stuff we've done. I do have a lot to be thankful for...don't want to sound unappreciative in any way.

Originally Posted by dairyairman

one thing a teacher can do for you is keep you motivated and working on new things. if you drop your teacher, you might end up getting lazy and possibly slipping back into the mode you were in before you started taking lessons.

Not possible.

Originally Posted by dairyairman

maybe you can work something out where you're pretty much doing what you want and setting your own pace but he's helping you along with whatever you're doing. i take lessons myself, and that's kind of the relationship i have with my teacher.

I've thought about that and I'm not entirely sure it fits his teaching style. His approach goes in the other direction. Obviously, it wouldn't hurt to approach him w/ this idea, good one, thanks!