Is it ok if I don't the hand cross thing?

[hendecahedron]

Hello, newbie onboard. Well not that new, I've been here before, but I forgot my old username. Anyway, I just got my very first kit, and started to practice. Thing I noticed is that most, if not all of the drummers I've seen hit the hi-hats with their right, while hitting the snare with their left. I feel more comfortable doing it the opposite way. Is that wrong?

Also, any advice you may have for an aspiring metal drummer are very welcome. Thanks!

[Velimor]

Nothing wrong at all with that. A number of great drummers do it that way. The important thing is that its comfortable for you. If anything, it'll help get your left hand stronger and more balanced with your right.

What kind of metal are you into?

Open handed playing. Nothing wrong with that at all, in fact a lot of people positively encourage it.

[hendecahedron]

Originally Posted by Velimor

Nothing wrong at all with that. A number of great drummers do it that way. The important thing is that its comfortable for you. If anything, it'll help get your left hand stronger and more balanced with your right.

What kind of metal are you into?

All kinds!! Heavy, thrash, death, black, a little doom, power, you name it!! I'm focusing more on death/black metal drumming, you know, those killer blast beats, even though I only have one bass drum at the moment, I'll get my hands on a double pedal soon, so it's cool.

So that's what's called, open hand playing huh? cool, I'll keep on it then! since it feels really natural for me to do it that way.

So, what are you into, Velimor? care to spare some tips?

[Illicom]

Yeah, open-hand isn't any worse than crossed.

When I first started, I played open, until one of my drummer friends told me I was doing it wrong, and to play crossed. Now I wish I had ignored him.

[kung_f00]

Just realize that with open-handed playing, you'd probably be more comfortable with the ride on your left rather than your right.

[PreppieNerd]

Something you might want to check out/ try since you only have one bass:
Derrick pope's heel-toe video (I don't have the link handy)
Try some alternating low tom/bass beats and other creative ways to replicate a double bass feel groove. Like playing the bass on all the eight not upbeats.

[groovemaster_flex]

Naw, I'm actually trying to play open-handed, and am even contemplating switching to a lefty setup so I can get more work in with my left hand.

Oh, and advice on metal drumming.
PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE.
Dont just use the same double-bass beat for every song.
A lot of the metal bands in my area use the same F*(&ING beat for every song.
And it bothers me so much.
Be creative with your grooves. Even try using a small kit instead of those HUGE kits most other metal drummers use.
It'll set you apart from the other drummers, create your own unique sound. And I'll dig it :)
And metal isn't all about flailing around on the toms with crazy single strokes *cough*Lars Ulrich*cough*
I've yet to see a truly decent metal drummer :)

Sorry guys, I'm a little biased :) As I used to play in a metal band, but I left cause all the guitarist wanted was crazy double bass beats. Which I dont dig. Obviously :)

[maddrummr]

its most definitally ok if you dont do the hand cross thing.

Metal is blah for me so sorry i got nothing

[bighaibigdrums]

If you dont cross your arms you will die.
Also if your toms arent completely flat you will tear a hole in the fabric of space causing the universe as we know it to end.

[Velimor]

Originally Posted by hendecahedron

All kinds!! Heavy, thrash, death, black, a little doom, power, you name it!! I'm focusing more on death/black metal drumming, you know, those killer blast beats, even though I only have one bass drum at the moment, I'll get my hands on a double pedal soon, so it's cool.

So that's what's called, open hand playing huh? cool, I'll keep on it then! since it feels really natural for me to do it that way.

So, what are you into, Velimor? care to spare some tips?

It looks like I'm into the same things as you. Black metal is my favorite, but I listen to a pretty good variety of metal (as well as other genres). The new cd from Folkearth is dominating my music listening time at the moment. Really good folk black metal.

As for tips, I'd say just go slow at first and don't try to play too technical. A simple, solid beat will sound a lot better than a poorly played attempt at a fast/technical beat. You gotta be able to walk before you can run. Oh, and make sure you're hitting your cymbals with a sort of glancing motion rather than plowing through them so they don't crack. I'm sure someone on here can explain it more if you want. Oh, and assuming you have stock heads, you should change them once you get the money. With nice heads, even a beginner kit will sound good.

Originally Posted by groovemaster_flex

I've yet to see a truly decent metal drummer :)

You haven't seen me. ;)

[Drummer_Jay]

Playing opeaned handed is the best thing you can really do as a drummer...its more pro looking and and it making everything that much easyer when u get it down!!!

just keep practicing and it will come to you!

[brockalicious]

Originally Posted by hendecahedron

Thing I noticed is that most, if not all of the drummers I've seen hit the hi-hats with their right, while hitting the snare with their left. I feel more comfortable doing it the opposite way. Is that wrong?

up until a month ago, i was a left handed purist (i crossed my right hand to the hi-hats, left on the snare). now i play a right handed kit, but i play open handed, and i find nothing wrong with it now. i find it builds speed in both arms instead of just my left now. so i would say theres absolutely nothing wrong being open handed

[Johnny from the block]

Originally Posted by Illicom

Yeah, open-hand isn't any worse than crossed.

When I first started, I played open, until one of my drummer friends told me I was doing it wrong, and to play crossed. Now I wish I had ignored him.

same here... a friend of mine, and even my teacher told me I was playing the wrong way... now I wondered if I would have been playing better if I played open handed anyway...meh, forever lost i guess ..

[PsYcHoTiC.DrUmMeR]

Hmm i have been wondering, for right cross-handed drummers, wouldnt it be more beneficial to have the hi hats on the right hand side played on the right hand. That way right-handed drummer could play open handed too.

[jonescrusher]

Originally Posted by Johnny from the block

same here... a friend of mine, and even my teacher told me I was playing the wrong way... now I wondered if I would have been playing better if I played open handed anyway...meh, forever lost i guess ..

Well nothing is set in stone. Why can't you add open-handedness to your range of techniques? Sticking religiously to one way or the other is only going to be restrictive. Being able to mix it up will give you more options.

[joeysnare]

ive been open handed since i started playing,and i love how comfortable it is,and having a hi hat and ride on the right and left also seems to open your playing up even more,i cant recommend open handed playing enough.yay metal

[hendecahedron]

Cool, so it's settled. Open playing it is! I might try cross handed sometime along the road, but for now I'm gonna stick to what it feels right. Thanks for your input dudes!

P.S. I'll try that Folkheart cd.

[Jaden]

when i started playing I too felt open was normal.
I was brand new and in awe when someone offered to give me my FIRST EVER lessons.

(hindsight, this happened to be just some below average drummer full of himself)

So, i get to the kit and play. And he pretty much goes, "what the hell are you doing?"

"oh, it just feels comfortable, I dunno (insecure, etc...)
"Well its wrong" learn the other way and get back to me.

Luckily I ignored him and just moved on.

Open hand rocks, and it has many advantages as previously mentioned, including (in my personal experience) a lot of awe/respect/interest from other musicians and drummers who watch you play.

[Tutin]

Originally Posted by bighaibigdrums

If you dont cross your arms you will die.
Also if your toms arent completely flat you will tear a hole in the fabric of space causing the universe as we know it to end.

DON'T DO IT!!!11

"LOL!!!1"

Yeah it's fine, hah.

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by Jaden

when i started playing I too felt open was normal.
I was brand new and in awe when someone offered to give me my FIRST EVER lessons.

(hindsight, this happened to be just some below average drummer full of himself)

So, i get to the kit and play. And he pretty much goes, "what the hell are you doing?"

"oh, it just feels comfortable, I dunno (insecure, etc...)
"Well its wrong" learn the other way and get back to me.

Luckily I ignored him and just moved on.

Open hand rocks, and it has many advantages as previously mentioned, including (in my personal experience) a lot of awe/respect/interest from other musicians and drummers who watch you play.

Good for you ignoring someone who insisted you play the "right" way. There is a thread about pro drummers who use "bad technique" and I'd add to that anyone who plays open. Some drumming schools teach that crossed is the only "correct" way.

I have played 24 years and I have always played open, with hihat and ride on the left. Even crossed drummers play open every chance they get. I have never, ever seen a crossed drummer put their ride cymbal on the left. They always put it on the right, so they can enjoy the natural, free feeling that comes with playing open. As open players, we enjoy that 100 percent of the time.

It is natural to do things open handed and no one ever crosses their arms to do anything - type, eat, drive, use tools or play virtually any other instrument. I personally believe playing open reduces the stresses that contribute to injury. Since the snare is the heart of the drum set, I like having my dominant right hand playing snare. To me, people who play crossed are really the ones playing left-handed but for some odd reason, people who play open are the ones considered "lefties."

People sometimes confuse open playing with ambidextrous playing. I am no more ambidextrous than a crossed player and I very rarely play ride or hats with my right hand. Ambidexterity is an entirely separate skill than merely playing open.

[Illicom]

The reason to put the ride on the left is that if you're already playing clicks on the hi-hat, it's easier to use the same hand for the ride--it's hard to switch hands for that. Kind of like how someone playing crossed would have a hard time playing either the ride or the hats with the left hand. You just aren't used to it, and its more confusing to switch in the middle of the song.

[Mongrel]

As an 'open' player I recommend you get a second ride when you can afford it, so that you have one on your left and one on your right. Put your main ride on the side you go to most often (for me that would be on my right...) and the secondary ride on the opposite side.

I started doing this before I knew anything about being 'correct' and unless I'm playing a very small setup I always use two rides. It's especially interesting when you use two very contrasting rides and play alternating patterns on the bells...

[dea]

I guess I play half-ars open then. My hi-hat is in front, and just off ( I mean very little )center to the right of my snare. Everything is close and tight. My ride remains on the right, but just to the left of my hi-hat. I am not ambi, but my left is not confined in anyway. It can be where it wants when it pleases and without having to dig it out from underneath my right hand. My left hand is usually bouncing around on a tambo, cowbell, block, or whatever when its not slamming down on my snare. I use this approach similiar to ghost note techniques only I'm hitting something other than the snare. Of course, I also perform standard ghosts on my snare, but psuedo-ghosting using the tambo, cowbell, etc. is just too cool.

[bart60]

something i've wondered for a while, if you were a right handed player(which i am) and you want to be able to play open-handed, would an option be to place you hi hat and ride on your right? almost like left handed crossed set but with the ride above your hihat? it should work, but you'd have to move some stuff around. what are your opinions on that?

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by bart60

something i've wondered for a while, if you were a right handed player(which i am) and you want to be able to play open-handed, would an option be to place you hi hat and ride on your right? almost like left handed crossed set but with the ride above your hihat? it should work, but you'd have to move some stuff around. what are your opinions on that?

Yes, that is the most logical way to play open for a person playing left-handed snare. There are many, many advantages to having the hats and ride close together (mine are just a few inches apart). You could use a cable system, so your left foot would still control the hats.

There are some issues, however. Where would you put the hihats? Usually people have a floor tom in or around the place where the hat would go. Also, your hats would be somewhat far from the snare. Your right leg would be between them. It would be a little harder for the right hand to hit the snare because of the added distance. Also, starting tom rolls might be harder and you'd have to deal with the hat being somewhere between your floor tom and rack toms. I have never seen anyone actually do this but I'd like to hear about it.

[zambizzi]

I don't see what's wrong w/ playing BOTH open and closed? Carter Beauford does it...and that dude can PLAY.

Personally, I started by playing the kit entirely left-handed (snare & hats on right, toms to the left...left on hats, right on snare) and switched to a right-handed setup once I started lessons. This gave me an enormous advantage on my left-side and to this day...both are equally as fast and skilled.

Aren't we, as drummers, seeking the utmost in coordination, independence, interdependence, etc.? Play both and break free of any physical constraints. I practice both ways (though not open-handed quite as much) and I love it.

[bart60]

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

Yes, that is the most logical way to play open for a person playing left-handed snare. There are many, many advantages to having the hats and ride close together (mine are just a few inches apart). You could use a cable system, so your left foot would still control the hats.

There are some issues, however. Where would you put the hihats? Usually people have a floor tom in or around the place where the hat would go. Also, your hats would be somewhat far from the snare. Your right leg would be between them. It would be a little harder for the right hand to hit the snare because of the added distance. Also, starting tom rolls might be harder and you'd have to deal with the hat being somewhere between your floor tom and rack toms. I have never seen anyone actually do this but I'd like to hear about it.

That's true, but it would be a lesson for your left foot since it would be doing the right foots job and vice versa. How do you have your kit setup? Or rather, does it work?

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by zambizzi

I don't see what's wrong w/ playing BOTH open and closed? Carter Beauford does it...and that dude can PLAY.

Personally, I started by playing the kit entirely left-handed (snare & hats on right, toms to the left...left on hats, right on snare) and switched to a right-handed setup once I started lessons. This gave me an enormous advantage on my left-side and to this day...both are equally as fast and skilled.

Aren't we, as drummers, seeking the utmost in coordination, independence, interdependence, etc.? Play both and break free of any physical constraints. I practice both ways (though not open-handed quite as much) and I love it.

What you're talking about is ambidexterity, which always comes up in a discussion of open playing style.

Ambidexterity is great. By pursuing it, you will become a better drummer and superior to someone who just plays closed or open only, no doubt about it. But I am lucky to get one hour a day to practice. Given that, I have to choose what I want to learn and what will give me the kind of results I want for the amount of time I have available. So I play open, right-handed snare. pretty much exclusively. If I had a few more hours a week, I would probably pursue ambidexterity. Ambidexterity is terrific, but if I have to choose between playing right-hand snare open or left-hand snare closed, I choose right-hand snare open.

[dea]

My kit is setup similiar to Carter in that my hi-hat is placed out in front of my snare. The major difference is that my hat is off center to the right a teen-weey bit. I play my hi-hat and ride with my right hand like normal, but there is absolutely nothing in the way of my left hand to whatever it wants on the left side - where I house toms and special fx.

[amba]

I totally agree with the ambidextrous theory...that's why I am pursuing it...
Best of luck...
amba
www.ambadextro.com

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

What you're talking about is ambidexterity, which always comes up in a discussion of open playing style.

Ambidexterity is great. By pursuing it, you will become a better drummer and superior to someone who just plays closed or open only, no doubt about it. But I am lucky to get one hour a day to practice. Given that, I have to choose what I want to learn and what will give me the kind of results I want for the amount of time I have available. So I play open, right-handed snare. pretty much exclusively. If I had a few more hours a week, I would probably pursue ambidexterity. Ambidexterity is terrific, but if I have to choose between playing right-hand snare open or left-hand snare closed, I choose right-hand snare open.

[MattRitter]

The past few years, I've been playing ambidextrously. However, I don't mean that I sometimes play cross-handed. I mean that I play the hi-hat with my left hand and the ride cymbal with my right. That way, each hand gets equal attention, and I never have to feel constricted because my arms are crossed. I've been loving this approach, and I recommend it to anyone interested in giving it a try. I teach all of my students this way as well. Most of them hardly ever practice (you teachers out there know what I'm talking about) but they still become comfortable with this ambidextrous approach pretty quickly. It's not as hard as it sounds.

By playing this way, you still become good at leading with your right hand...so if you ever WANT to cross over, you can do it. After a few months, though, you'll probably never want to cross your arms ever again! Remember, it's not necessary to lead with our "dominant" hand. This is proven by all of the left handed drummers out there who lead righty...which is MOST left-handed drummers. Think of it this way- about 10% of the population is lefty, but there are only a few drummers who set up the kit in reverse like Rod Morgenstein or Phil Collins. Most left-handed drummers play righty. Many years ago, I worked in a drumming school. At that time, 4 of our most popular teachers were left-handed...but you would never know it since they played righty. My point is this- if left handed drummers can play right-hand-lead, then right handed drummers can play left-hand-lead. It's not as hard as it sounds. Give it a try. Lead on the hi-hat with your left, and keep up your right hand chops by leading on the ride with your right.

Matt Ritter
www.UnBuryingTheBeater.com

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by MattRitter

The past few years, I've been playing ambidextrously. However, I don't mean that I sometimes play cross-handed. I mean that I play the hi-hat with my left hand and the ride cymbal with my right. That way, each hand gets equal attention, and I never have to feel constricted because my arms are crossed. I've been loving this approach, and I recommend it to anyone interested in giving it a try. I teach all of my students this way as well. Most of them hardly ever practice (you teachers out there know what I'm talking about) but they still become comfortable with this ambidextrous approach pretty quickly. It's not as hard as it sounds.

By playing this way, you still become good at leading with your right hand...so if you ever WANT to cross over, you can do it. After a few months, though, you'll probably never want to cross your arms ever again! Remember, it's not necessary to lead with our "dominant" hand. This is proven by all of the left handed drummers out there who lead righty...which is MOST left-handed drummers. Think of it this way- about 10% of the population is lefty, but there are only a few drummers who set up the kit in reverse like Rod Morgenstein or Phil Collins. Most left-handed drummers play righty. Many years ago, I worked in a drumming school. At that time, 4 of our most popular teachers were left-handed...but you would never know it since they played righty. My point is this- if left handed drummers can play right-hand-lead, then right handed drummers can play left-hand-lead. It's not as hard as it sounds. Give it a try. Lead on the hi-hat with your left, and keep up your right hand chops by leading on the ride with your right.

Matt Ritter
www.UnBuryingTheBeater.com

For a while, I tried playing left hand hats and right hand ride, but it was tough. There's a reason why virtually all drummers use the same hand for hats and ride, regardless of how they play. It's because the patterns played on the hats are usually very similar to the patterns on the ride and vice-versa.

I saw no point in cross-training my hands and I figured I could enjoy all the benefits of playing open by simply putting my ride cymbal on the left, very close to my hats. There are also lots of advantages to having the hat and ride close to each other, in that the left hand can lay down cool ride/hat/snare patterns and the right hand can do cool tom.snare/crash patterns. Playing two-handed 16th notes on the ride is also possible.

Again, ambidexterity will give you many great skills. Given the time I have to devote to music, however, I play open with right hand snare. Unless someone really wants to play ambidextrously, I'd advise them to stick to one hand or the other.

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by bart60

That's true, but it would be a lesson for your left foot since it would be doing the right foots job and vice versa. How do you have your kit setup? Or rather, does it work?

Let me clarify what I meant. For a person to play open but play right hand hats and ride, they would play left foot hats, right foot bass, left hand snare, right hand hats/ride. That way they wouldn't have to change anything.

I don't play like that. I play left hand ride/hats, right hand snare, left foot hats, right foot bass. See my setup in the link below.

[dea]

[quote=Deathmetalconga;327313]Let me clarify what I meant. For a person to play open but play right hand hats and ride, they would play left foot hats, right foot bass, left hand snare, right hand hats/ride. That way they wouldn't have to change anything.

Hehehe... This is exactly how I play. With my hat in front, and just to the right of my snare. My ride is almost butting up against my hat just to its right. Everything is tight so I can reach anything with any hand without any restrictions. It gives a nice 50/50 feel to my kit. My left hand is bouncing around continously on the tambos, blocks, and cowbells as its waiting to slam down on the backbeat. My left hand never stops. For me this is a natural application of jazz comping as applied to pop/rock. My left hand essentially is playing a melodic line on some fx(s) in between the backbeat. If done correctly - and I have not mastered this yet - it can drive the beat forward like a freight train.

[Vixus]

That's an interesting layout... so you have your snare in centre, all cymbals to the right and all the drums to the left?

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by dea

Hehehe... This is exactly how I play. With my hat in front, and just to the right of my snare. My ride is almost butting up against my hat just to its right. Everything is tight so I can reach anything with any hand without any restrictions. It gives a nice 50/50 feel to my kit. My left hand is bouncing around continously on the tambos, blocks, and cowbells as its waiting to slam down on the backbeat. My left hand never stops. For me this is a natural application of jazz comping as applied to pop/rock. My left hand essentially is playing a melodic line on some fx(s) in between the backbeat. If done correctly - and I have not mastered this yet - it can drive the beat forward like a freight train.

Your setup sounds a lot like a mirror image of mine, except I have my hihat at about 9 o'clock relative to the snare and your hats sound like they're about at 1 o'clock. Is your floor tom to your left or right?

I agree, not crossing your hands allows the snare hand to move around the set very freely to hit percussion, toms, etc., while the ride hand keeps the beat going on hats or ride.

I would like to see your set - photos?

[Raymond Bloom]

The only reason why I would like to try playing open-handed is to gain some coordination, but to play like that all the time?

Some arguments come in mind:

1) your right hand does more strokes while playing, whether on hi-hats or ride cymbal. If you're right handed it's just logical to use the dominant hand for this purpose

2) yes, snare drum is the heart of a drum set, but since you play more strokes with your right hand and if you're right-handed, why put all that hard work on your left?

3) I don't find anything uncomfortable when playing with my left hand on hi-hats! Just some smart positioning of your snare drum and hi-hats and everything should be comfortable!

4) playing fills etc could be a little uncomfortable, because of the left hand lead


If you want to play open-handed - do it! It's not for me though, especially since I play traditional grip


good luck!
Ray

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by Raymond Bloom

The only reason why I would like to try playing open-handed is to gain some coordination, but to play like that all the time?

Some arguments come in mind:

1) your right hand does more strokes while playing, whether on hi-hats or ride cymbal. If you're right handed it's just logical to use the dominant hand for this purpose

2) yes, snare drum is the heart of a drum set, but since you play more strokes with your right hand and if you're right-handed, why put all that hard work on your left?

3) I don't find anything uncomfortable when playing with my left hand on hi-hats! Just some smart positioning of your snare drum and hi-hats and everything should be comfortable!

4) playing fills etc could be a little uncomfortable, because of the left hand lead


If you want to play open-handed - do it! It's not for me though, especially since I play traditional grip

good luck!
Ray

It's not necessarily logical to use the dominant hand for a task just because it requires more strokes. In fact, using the non-dominant hand for the more demanding task will strengthen the non-dominant hand. I am right handed and I like having my dominant hand on snare, where the additional dexterity helps with ghost notes. My left hand is as strong as my right and it's never, ever had a problem keeping up while playing hats and ride.

You're right about playing fills with left hand on hats and ride. It is trickier sometimes. On the other hand. my right hand is free to wander around the set while my left holds down the hats and ride. I often play traditional grip with my snare (right) hand, so playing open has no bearing on grip type.

It is normal that people who play crossed find ways to avoid discomfort. If people had to type, drive, play piano, eat and use tools with crossed hands, they'd find a way to do it comfortably. Likely you play open every chance you get by putting your ride cymbal on the right. I'll bet you don't put your ride cymbal next to your hihat on your left, because it feels better playing ride open on the right. I agree, I just play that way 100 percent of the time.

[Johnny from the block]

Originally Posted by jonescrusher

Well nothing is set in stone. Why can't you add open-handedness to your range of techniques? Sticking religiously to one way or the other is only going to be restrictive. Being able to mix it up will give you more options.

Fact. And I experimented with it a few times already, but I easily stop because obviously I can play less then normally open handed so I get sick of it pretty fast, but you're probably right about widening techniques. Will do! thanks