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  #1  
Old 08-20-2014, 03:06 AM
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Default NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/n

Related to gig discussions I've read here in the past.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...perry-20140819

I am stunned rigid. It's like what I understand the UK pub scene is like, just writ large.

Thoughts?

P.S. Coldplay should be charged. [shudder] Ew. I mean...Coldplay. Ew. ;-)
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Old 08-20-2014, 03:21 AM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

The NFL - one of the world's biggest money-making conglomerates. Freakin' bastards.

I'm actually getting a bit tired of pro football. The players make too much money; the owners are stingy tyrants; and the league is run by a bunch of good ol' boys that pad each other's pockets.

Now they want to charge an artist a fee? Pay to play, baby!!

Every band in the world - professional, semi-professional, collegiate, High School, etc. should boycott the Stupor Bowl
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Old 08-20-2014, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

Sure, why not? For some artists the Superbowl is big advertising.
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Old 08-20-2014, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

What, the NFL now thinks they are a club on the Sunset Strip?

Pay to play, buy-ins and such are nothing new.
But, huh, no.
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:21 AM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

A big NO. Ridiculous, ....money, money, money.

Personally, I never found the Superbowl appearances of any band all that great from a musical stand point.
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

And that's why Weird Al will not be playing the Super Bowl!
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Old 08-20-2014, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

Seriously. Pay-to-play is insane.

(Except for Coldplay. I can't believe nobody is agreeing with me about Coldplay.)
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Old 08-20-2014, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

I dont know. I mean the NFL is a corporation and the goal of any corporation is to make money. Somebody went to the NFL and said, "hey lets charge the acts for the halftime show." The NFL then went to the management of the artists and got a "Chilly Reception" as the article states. Cant blame a company for trying to make more money, its kind of what they do. Other people are throwing millions of dollars at the NFL for a 30 second commercial. I guarantee the people who market the Super Bowl see the bands at halftime as getting a 10 minute commerical on the NFL's dime.

Ultimately its up to the artists to draw the line. My guess is the artists management will tell the NFL to pack sand and things will go on as they always have.
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Old 08-20-2014, 02:43 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

Quote:
Originally Posted by STXBob View Post
Related to gig discussions I've read here in the past.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...perry-20140819

I am stunned rigid. It's like what I understand the UK pub scene is like, just writ large.

Thoughts?

P.S. Coldplay should be charged. [shudder] Ew. I mean...Coldplay. Ew. ;-)
The English pub scene is in the main nothing like that. There are a few places that have dubious practices like this in the larger cities but not that many.

I've played in pubs for 25yrs or so and have never had to pay to play and always been paid more or less what we felt the band was worth. Currently roughly $100 equivalent per night each for 2 45 min sets of classic rock in a 4 piece band is fine by me.

Worth saying that in the UK if you play covers you're more likely to be paid sensibly than if you play originals (where you might only get a share of ticket sales).

As far as the NFL goes that's a difficult call, bands would need to work out whether they'll gain more in record play, sales etc etc than it costs to do.
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Old 08-20-2014, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

Brilliant, charge the half time entertainment for the honor of playing.? I know, lets charge the teams and the players for being allowed to use the pitch, well they are also part of the entertainment.

Pay to play in British pubs? Not where I live.
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Old 08-20-2014, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

yep as above, we don't pay to play in the pubs where I am either.

and yep you get more pay and more regular work in a covers band, no one in the uk wants to hear original stuff in a pub on a saturday night
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2014, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

I am strongly in favor of Coldplay having to pay to play the Super Bowl.
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Old 08-20-2014, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

Really, why stop at the musicians? The announcers career is no doubt fortified by working the SuperBowl, they should pay to work too. And the football players. Their career is going to be fortified by playing in a Super Bowl. Then there's the viewers. Make the SuperBowl pay per view. That's where the real money is. What about the footballs? And the Jerseys? And the shoes? What about the helmets? All these people are getting free ads too, are they being asked to pay?

Greed and cheapness disgust me.

Musicians aren't advertising, they are entertaining. You pay to advertise, you get paid to entertain. Is playing music in the SuperBowl an advertisement? If so then playing football in the SuperBowl is an advertisement for each player too, as is the announcing.

Just for once, I'd like to see greed met with a baseball bat to the teeth, just because. Maybe they'd think before going there again.

Earning a buck is one thing, but taking it out of others pocket is greed and I most certainly blame the NFL for even going there.

Musicians are so easy to walk over and I believe we are at fault at the root of everything for laying down.

Money and music...the former poisons the latter to a varying degree. That's why I am happy that I don't depend on my gigs to survive. I think it would sour me eventually.

Color me disgusted.
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

From what I understand (and I may be wrong) being required to pay to play is hardly a new concept. At least in NYC and some other large cities.

As for the NFL? Greed of the highest order.

Oh well.... One more reason why I hate them and all other sports.
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

I'm getting really tired of professional sports in general. This is just another glaring example of why I shouldn't waste my time watching this crap.
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
I'm getting really tired of professional sports in general. This is just another glaring example of why I shouldn't waste my time watching this crap.
Me as well. Complete turn off, and most of the talk is of contracts. Ho hum...did Kobe earn 10 or 15 million this time? Watching junior and college sports can be just as entertaining.

But selling seats at a sports event now is not about common person - corporations and big businesses buy the expensive boxes and seats. The attitude is "who cares if blue-collar Jimmy and his son can afford a game". Sadly, lots of middle and low income people will spend their last dime for loyalty to a team, and that gets manipulated by the almighty owners.
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Me as well. Complete turn off, and most of the talk is of contracts. Ho hum...did Kobe earn 10 or 15 million this time? Watching junior and college sports can be just as entertaining.

But selling seats at a sports event now is not about common person - corporations and big businesses buy the expensive boxes and seats. The attitude is "who cares if blue-collar Jimmy and his son can afford a game". Sadly, lots of middle and low income people will spend their last dime for loyalty to a team, and that gets manipulated by the almighty owners.
If you want to talk about greed, you probably should speak of College sports as a better option. College football is far more greedy than the NFL.

As for pay to play, find a venue that pays you and not the other way around. If that means you dont get as much publicity, at least you will have a proper business attitude for when you begin to get a following. If you let people roll you from the start you will never get them to stop rolling you and you will always lose.
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  #18  
Old 08-20-2014, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

I apologize for possibly misrepresenting the UK pub scene. My memory tells me there were some reports recently on DW of not pay-to-play, but musicians being expected to perform gratis (for the "exposure" and/or so they can make money from CD and merchandise sales), and that such a situation was becoming more and more prevalent.
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:07 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

The people that find this ridiculous have no concept of business.

The super bowl is a business and the act is a business.

The super bowl is a bigger draw than ANY performer out there so, who benefits from the half time show?

Major brands pay millions of dollars for a 30 second spot. How much is a 15 minute spot at half time worth?

If an act has new material coming out, they need to get it exposed as much as possible. They could throw $2M on a multi media advertising campaign or they could pay $2M to play at the SB half time show.

Of course I'm just pulling those numbers out of my ass. There are highly paid people that do the math on these things. If the company promoting the music sales think they can increase sales by $10M by investing $2M, it's a good decision.
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Old 08-21-2014, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

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Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
The people that find this ridiculous have no concept of business.
I find that comical. I've been a small business owner, consultant, and contractor for the better part of two decades. But do go on. ;-)

Quote:
The super bowl is a business and the act is a business.
With you so far.

Quote:
The super bowl is a bigger draw than ANY performer out there so, who benefits from the half time show?
Ultimately, the NFL. That's where all the bucks stop.

Quote:
Major brands pay millions of dollars for a 30 second spot. How much is a 15 minute spot at half time worth?
The NFL doesn't sell ad time. The network airing the Super Bowl - or simulcasting it overseas, etc. - sells the air time. So while what you're saying is true, it's strictly speaking irrelevant.

Quote:
If an act has new material coming out, they need to get it exposed as much as possible. They could throw $2M on a multi media advertising campaign or they could pay $2M to play at the SB half time show.
Or they could get paid to add to the spectacle, just as everyone else involved, from the beer vendor to the starting quarterback to the line judge, gets paid.

Professionals get paid to practice their profession, like any other professional involved in making an event into a salable commodity.

Quote:
Of course I'm just pulling those numbers out of my ass. There are highly paid people that do the math on these things. If the company promoting the music sales think they can increase sales by $10M by investing $2M, it's a good decision.
Which, to turn your initial shot about knowing little about business, shows how little you know about the music business. ;-P The record company isn't paying for the tour, the live shows, none of that. Yes, the tour supports the new album (much of the time), but that's not the record company's lookout.

However, what I'm bitching about, at its core, is that the halftime act is a crucial supporter of the whole shebang, just as much as the players, the officials, the stadium staff, all of that. Might as well start charging the teams who take part. Or the referees. Or, or, or...

Pay to play sets a dangerous precedent for musicians everywhere. That's the point.
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Old 08-21-2014, 12:36 AM
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Wow... that's a flat out insulting offer from the NFL. Just because an artist or group has made it big doesn't mean they should have to pay to play at a venue. If it's not acceptable at a local bar then why should it be acceptable in a stadium?

Why don't they ask their players to pay to be on the football teams? Because you know that would go over well.
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:26 AM
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STXBob, while I share your attitude toward Coldplay, and I agree that when somebody is making money out of a performance, some portion of that money should flow to the performer, what New Tricks has to say is correct.

If you were running the NFL, you'd explore every avenue open to you to increase revenue. Looked at the other way, you'd be silly to ignore a potential source of revenue.

And while the NFL does not charge for airtime, they do charge broadcasters for the right to broadcast, and the broadcasters in turn recoup their expense from advertisers in turn.

Bonus question: Who do the advertisers recoup the money from?

The NFL trying to make money is only a moral question if you want to debate the morality of capitalism. That may be a discussion worth having, but handwringing over a specific example, not so much.
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:29 AM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

Wait a sec ... pay to play? Ha! That's easy since I can't remember the last time an act actually PLAYED at that event.

Maybe this is the NFL's way of discouraging an act from wanting to plug anything in?
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Old 08-21-2014, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by STXBob View Post
Pay to play sets a dangerous precedent for musicians everywhere. That's the point.

It's hardly a precedent. It's big business 101 and has been going on forever. It's basically product placement. It's done from the grocery stores to every big event in the nation.

Quote:
The NFL doesn't sell ad time. The network airing the Super Bowl - or simulcasting it overseas, etc. - sells the air time. So while what you're saying is true, it's strictly speaking irrelevant.
Potato, patato. The time = money. BIG money

Quote:
Or they could get paid to add to the spectacle, just as everyone else involved, from the beer vendor to the starting quarterback to the line judge, gets paid.

You don't think that the vendors at these events pay HUGE money to sell their wares? The employee will be getting an hourly wage but Pizza hut (or whoever) is paying big money to be there.

I find it funny that people are so appalled by this. In the end, musicians are just another group trying to sell their product..


Quote:
Which, to turn your initial shot about knowing little about business, shows how little you know about the music business. ;-P The record company isn't paying for the tour, the live shows, none of that. Yes, the tour supports the new album (much of the time), but that's not the record company's lookout.
Again with the potato/tatto. I don't know squat about the "record" business other than it's full of thieves and cut throats :) but I do know the basic of business. The pay to play is a pretty simple concept at this level of an event. A lot of people personalize this but, a major act is a major business. If they think their advertising budget would be well spent by playing at the super bowl, they will pay it.

And, I'm not sure when the first (concert) opening act who paid to play was, but it was a long dang time ago.

.
Quote:
The NFL trying to make money is only a moral question if you want to debate the morality of capitalism
Exactly. And, in that debate, the performers should be working for free. :)



Quote:
Just because an artist or group has made it big doesn't mean they should have to pay to play at a venue

uhhhhh....they don't have to. They would choose to, if they thought it was a sound financial decision.

Last edited by New Tricks; 08-21-2014 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 08-21-2014, 03:11 AM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

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Originally Posted by JustJames View Post
STXBob, while I share your attitude toward Coldplay, and I agree that when somebody is making money out of a performance, some portion of that money should flow to the performer, what New Tricks has to say is correct.

If you were running the NFL, you'd explore every avenue open to you to increase revenue. Looked at the other way, you'd be silly to ignore a potential source of revenue.

And while the NFL does not charge for airtime, they do charge broadcasters for the right to broadcast, and the broadcasters in turn recoup their expense from advertisers in turn.

Bonus question: Who do the advertisers recoup the money from?

The NFL trying to make money is only a moral question if you want to debate the morality of capitalism. That may be a discussion worth having, but handwringing over a specific example, not so much.
Oh, I'm not denying that there's a great deal of money involved. Neither do I deny that the NFL is run like a business.

I'm happy to have a debate on the morality of capitalism if you really want one. To my mind, anyone who could excuse a supposed non-profit's massive profiteering, monopolism, and outright racketeering should exchange their clearly dysfunctional morals for some which actually work.

The NFL, which rakes in some 9.5 BILLION dollars annually, is officially a non-profit organization. The NFL earns more than the YMCA, Red Cross, Salvation Army, and Catholic Charities combined. Commissioner Roger Goodell in 2011 reaped a salary of $30 million. But it's a 501(c)6, because in 1966 it bought enough legislators to rewrite the tax code to its benefit when the NFL combined with the AFL.

The NFL is one of the greatest profit-generating commercial advertising, entertainment and media enterprises ever created. Oh, sure, they show a technical loss every year, but then $9.5 billion can buy very, very clever tax accountants.

The NFL charges the networks an arm and a leg for the privilege of broadcasting the game. Then the networks charge advertisers an arm and a leg for the airtime. Then the advertisers charge more for their products, so we end up paying the tab. But guess what? Because the NFL is a 501(c)6, we pick up the tab in the first place. The lost tax revenue amounts to us paying the NFL to charge the networks to charge the advertisers to charge us. Just another example of the fat cats double-dipping at our expense.

Goodell is a plutocrat through and through. That's why they don't have a problem exploiting their "human resources." Plutocrats don't want to pay their workers. They want to make money off the backs of the workers, to profit from their labor, but don't want to pay them what they're worth, or indeed anything at all. This halftime performance horsepuckey goes out the other side of that. This is like my grandfather paying Standard Steel to go shovel borings in the machine room. It's insane.

But let's leave that aside. Let's instead explore why the NFL should pay halftime entertainers. As I've said over and over, the artists are professionals. Nobody has yet even bothered to explain why a professional doing his job shouldn't be paid. Further, they are providing a customer a thing of value. The performance is a commodity. If they have to pay someone to accept their commodity, it reverses the value of that commodity. It becomes valueless. That's dangerous as hell for artists and performers, and it trickles all the way down to you and me.

Let's take the venue's argument to its logical conclusion: "If you pay to play (or play for free), you'll get lots of exposure, and you'll hit it big." If you're playing the Super Bowl, you've already hit it big! It's not like you're a popular nightclub which label talent scouts sometimes visit. You're the f***ing SUPER BOWL. You're not just providing a venue which gets me exposure. You're making MILLIONS off this one gig. That's the only explanation I've seen so far why the performers shouldn't get paid, and that dog clearly don't hunt. Shell out, Goodell.

As you might expect, I think the issue is worth hand-wringing. A trend toward pay-to-play - even free playing "for the exposure" - works against people like you and me. If it takes hold, how many professional musicians will it ruin? I think my time, effort, knowledge, skill, and investment in equipment is worth something.

/rant

Rise up, comrades! Let the blood of the plutocrats and bourgeoisie run in rivers down the gutters of Gorkiy Park! Let the proletariat rise!

If only I could find a picture of Lenin holding a pair of drumsticks... ;-D
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Old 08-21-2014, 03:28 AM
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Here's a question for you Bob.


In your business, generally speaking, if you had something you could sell, would you pay somebody to take it?

I don't pay someone to haul away my scrap copper. I take it to the recycle yard and come home with a wad of cash.
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Old 08-21-2014, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
Here's a question for you Bob.


In your business, generally speaking, if you had something you could sell, would you pay somebody to take it?

I don't pay someone to haul away my scrap copper. I take it to the recycle yard and come home with a wad of cash.
I can see where you're going with this, and it's not the trap you think it is. ;-)

If I have something of value to sell, I will not pay someone else to take it. That's the same whether it's the product of my business (www.reconstructinghistory.com), my other 40-hour-a-week job (www.fortchristianbrewpub.com), or my music.

My music is a commodity. It's a thing of value. I categorically refuse to devalue it to the point I pay someone else to take it. The only thing you or I pay someone else to take away is rubbish. Neither your nor my music is rubbish. Neither is the music played by the proposed Super Bowl halftime acts, with the obvious exception of Coldplay.

That's why this is so blindingly simple to me. Let's recap.

First, the performance is a thing of value. The performance enhances the venue, attracts more attendees, makes the venue more money. Yes, the venue can also enhance the performer's career, but that is not in evidence in this case, as I have shown up-thread.

Second, if my work, the product of my labor, makes you more money, you for goddamn sure owe me some of it. That's true whether it's digging coal or playing halftime at the Super Bowl.

Third, demanding I pay you to accept my art is saying my art is garbage, a thing of no worth to you. To which I reply, "If that's what you think, you can suck it." Okay, I'd rather punch someone with that attitude about my art in the gob, but I'll refrain because I don't like having a rap sheet for assault.

You, Mr Tricks, are acting like the venue/event is the only thing of value being traded here. It's not. The act is also a commodity, a commodity which enhances the event and makes the NFL more money.

For the life of me, I cannot fathom why any of you aren't outraged by this. I'm stunned that some of you are actually defending the practice.
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Old 08-21-2014, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

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Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
The people that find this ridiculous have no concept of business.

The super bowl is a business and the act is a business.
.
Just because something is called a business doesn't give it a license to ignore morality.
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Old 08-21-2014, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

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Just because something is called a business doesn't give it a license to ignore morality.
And that, Larry, is why you shall never be a very rich man.

Years ago a friend had a name for groups that would travel great distances to play in lousy venues for no money in order to "get exposure". He used to call them "fish bands". It was an appropriately derisive term although I must admit that I used to feel a bit sorry for them, being economically abused and all.


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Originally Posted by STXBob View Post
...

Second, if my work, the product of my labor, makes you more money, you for goddamn sure owe me some of it. That's true whether it's digging coal or playing halftime at the Super Bowl.
...
For the life of me, I cannot fathom why any of you aren't outraged by this. I'm stunned that some of you are actually defending the practice.
Thank you for bringing this small bit of sanity into my day. To me, this NFL thing is just another example of the growing corporate/plutocratic mindset in our country. Personally, I think the NFL (like virtually every other big-time sport) is nothing but a social leech that has wormed its way into the public's mind and convinced people that it's something that it's not. I find the NFL's product to be mind-numbingly boring and trite, and I suggest to all viewers (and taxpayers) that they'd be far better off walking away from the TV or stadium and instead play Frisbee with their kids or dog.
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Old 08-21-2014, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

A multibillion dollar industry with monopoly status and a tax free existence, who lies in a bed of cash with cable operators enjoying tolerated monopoly and tax free clauses built into their territorial agreements....and plays their games inside $700 million dollar palaces built by strong-arming local tax treasuries into prioritizing a sports team over schools and infrastructure...tells musicians that they should pony up some (again ultimately tax free) cash for the privilege of appearing on their broadcast for 10 minutes while people at home urinate and refill their beer fridges.

The logic being that people will then flock to itunes and pay money (to another largely tax free corporation) and said musicians will wallow in the largesse created by the investment they made. You made the trip out here and put in a month of work in rehearsal, but you, like the guy at home, are merely a consumer of this product.

Those fruit hang real low Mr Goodell. And we wonder why cities and states hover at bankruptcy.
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Old 08-21-2014, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Just because something is called a business doesn't give it a license to ignore morality.
True. The correct term for what you describe is "corporation". It's the best of all worlds. Everyone working there can do whatever they want, and not face personal responsibility!
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Old 08-21-2014, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

I find it quite amusing that an Artist performs for 15 mins during half time and the ball is only in play for an average 12 mins, yet they still want the artist to work for free and pay the players millions.
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Old 08-21-2014, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

I can see it now: a band member comes up to you and says, "hey man, my band is playing this show, would you to buy a ticket? They're $550 a seat"

;)
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Old 08-21-2014, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

I like this thread, it's very educational. I am no businessman, and had no idea the NFL was tax-free. What a scam.

Unfortunately, I fear some hard-up sucker is going to pay the NFL for the opportunity to play half-time. Some entertainers have maybe devalued themselves that much.
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Old 08-21-2014, 10:51 PM
Winegums Winegums is offline
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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
I like this thread, it's very educational. I am no businessman, and had no idea the NFL was tax-free. What a scam.

Unfortunately, I fear some hard-up sucker is going to pay the NFL for the opportunity to play half-time. Some entertainers have maybe devalued themselves that much.
Then we'll all be buried under the pay to play model of performing...

I wouldn't put it past local bars to start doing it.
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:11 PM
FrontierGibberish FrontierGibberish is offline
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

I have not finished reading all of the posts here so apologies if I repeat what others have said, though I kinda doubt anyone says this...

Ok so assume you have to pay to play at the Super Bowl. This could actually turn into a cool deal for non-big time bands - stay with me here. What if U2 for example sponsored a "Play with U2 at the Super Bowl" contest. U2 would invite bands to send in demos and whichever band U2 picked would be featured at the Super Bowl - with U2. U2 would get the publicity from the contest plus the publicity from playing at the Super Bowl. Yeah I know too dreamy.

Do the acts at the Super Bowl get paid now? For some reason I seem to think that I heard they did not. I imagine someone here will know for sure.

Last thing - there is some REALLY bad logic in this thread folks. We all need to study our fallacies a little. You can't fight big business ya know....

Ok who got that last one?
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Old Yesterday, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by FrontierGibberish View Post
I have not finished reading all of the posts here so apologies if I repeat what others have said, though I kinda doubt anyone says this...

Ok so assume you have to pay to play at the Super Bowl. This could actually turn into a cool deal for non-big time bands - stay with me here. What if U2 for example sponsored a "Play with U2 at the Super Bowl" contest. U2 would invite bands to send in demos and whichever band U2 picked would be featured at the Super Bowl - with U2. U2 would get the publicity from the contest plus the publicity from playing at the Super Bowl. Yeah I know too dreamy

While that sounds like a perfect opportunity for a band with "f-you" dollars and some semblance of the rebellion of their past years to buck the system, the reality is the NFL will still hold a solid veto fist over any all all decisions regarding the halftime performance. There's no way a contest like that would ever result in a band that isn't a safe, familiar, and frankly, boring offering to make it to that stage.

They've been so paranoid about a repeat occurrence of Janet Jackson boobgate that they went post-911 brain on the companies they contract to produce the halftime shows. I wouldnt be surprised if everyone that steps on the field between halves is subject to an outfit spotcheck to look for seams and stitches that might accidentally burst. :)



It will continue to be the same old same old same old. A rotating calendar of bands 30 years past their prime, and dull hit-making performers that demographic number crunchers say will retain female attention long enough during the lull in testosterone to blast them with the ads targeted to them.
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Old Yesterday, 02:54 AM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Just because something is called a business doesn't give it a license to ignore morality.
When did it become immoral to sell something of value?

Acts will pay to play at the super bowl. Vendors will pay to hawk their goods. Big companies will pay to put their name the stadium. It's a big money machine.

New acts will pay to open for headliners.

A lot of people are talking like the NFL is demanding money. No one has to pay. The choice is theirs.


Quote:
Second, if my work, the product of my labor, makes you more money, you for goddamn sure owe me some of it. That's true whether it's digging coal or playing halftime at the Super Bowl.
No act will increase revenue. It's the super bowl. The act could be anyone (obviously) and people will still tune in.

Quote:
Third, demanding I pay you to accept my art is saying my art is garbage, a thing of no worth to you. To which I reply, "If that's what you think, you can suck it." Okay, I'd rather punch someone with that attitude about my art in the gob, but I'll refrain because I don't like having a rap sheet for assault.
They are not saying your art is garbage. They are saying. "if you want the opportunity to show your product to 100 zillion people in one of the largest events in the world, it will cost you money".


Quote:
You, Mr Tricks, are acting like the venue/event is the only thing of value being traded here. It's not. The act is also a commodity, a commodity which enhances the event and makes the NFL more money.
The act is nowhere near the value of the event. If it was, they couldn't ask to get paid. The gig is nothing more than advertising.

Quote:
For the life of me, I cannot fathom why any of you aren't outraged by this. I'm stunned that some of you are actually defending the practice.
It is what it is. I didn't make the rules. :) If my business has something of value, I am going to sell it. The air time during the SB is for sale.


Yesterday I posed a hypothetical question about paying to play but got no response. My only point is that paying to play can be nothing more sinister than advertising.. If you think you can net $10M from a $2M investment, you should do it. Hell, if you could net $3M from a $2M investment, it's still a good days pay.


I think you are taking it WAY to personally. It's just a business deal.

Last edited by New Tricks; Yesterday at 03:13 AM.
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  #39  
Old Yesterday, 04:30 AM
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

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Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
When did it become immoral to sell something of value?
Sometimes it is*. In contrast, it is always unethical to demand to gain from someone else's labor without appropriate compensation.

Look, this action from the NFL doesn't surprise me in the least. From the abuse of collegiate athletics as their zero cost farm team system to holding cities hostage with tax break ransom demands, they've proven themselves to be a reprehensible organization. People should just walk away from big time sports but unfortunately they seem as dependent as heroin addicts.


*I can think of several instances of "something of value" that should not be sold. We might start with humans.
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Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM
mpthomson mpthomson is offline
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Default Re: NFL Asks Musicians for Money to Play Super Bowl Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne

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Originally Posted by STXBob View Post
I apologize for possibly misrepresenting the UK pub scene. My memory tells me there were some reports recently on DW of not pay-to-play, but musicians being expected to perform gratis (for the "exposure" and/or so they can make money from CD and merchandise sales), and that such a situation was becoming more and more prevalent.
Almost certainly true for some original bands, but not for the average to good weekend warriors bringing dubious Foo Fighters covers to the masses (including myself in that)!
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