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  #1  
Old 02-28-2007, 02:39 AM
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Default weight balance in sticks

I'm curious why so many sticks today have the most weight towards the tip of the stick instead of in the back. The pair of old Vic Firth 5as I have is about evenly weighted all around with a bit more in the back. The newer pairs of Promark and Innovative Percussion I've tried all have more weight towards the tip. To me this makes it harder to play as you can't get as much rebound with the sticks as there is no counter weight here. Does anyone else have thoughts as to why there aren't more differently weighted sticks? Life is so bad when you don't have a local music store to go try these things in person. So I order these sticks based off size and style and are surprised at how different they are from what I expected. I guess maybe I should just stick to Vic Firth 5As since I know what to expect. I'm interested in trying Regal Tip though, but not if they have the weird weigted tip sticks. I've never seen Regal Tips, Vaters, or Promark Hickory (I have had Oak ones though). Does anyone have any experience with any of these? I'm not talking about big ol' rock sticks, but 5A or smaller.
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Old 02-28-2007, 02:45 AM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

Vater is awesome.


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  #3  
Old 03-01-2007, 10:16 AM
osamasgoat5467 osamasgoat5467 is offline
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't shifting the weight of the stick forward (shorter taper) done to add power and weight up front so the stick can do more work to get a fuller sound, letting you think more about technique and feel than hitting the drum hard enough?
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

OK, here is what EVERYONE needs to know about stick weights...

Sticks are wood. Wood was a living object and grows (just like you and me).
If a stick has a thicker neck and larger tip it will "generally" feel like it has more weight at the tip end. BUT, that's not always the case. We can not see the lines of grain inside a drumstick. It may be denser wood in spots we can't see.

here's a trick to find well balanced sticks. Check the lines on the bottom of a stick (butt end). The more lines on the bottom, the lighter the stick, The fewer lines the denser the wood and the heavier it may be.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonni View Post

here's a trick to find well balanced sticks. Check the lines on the bottom of a stick (butt end). The more lines on the bottom, the lighter the stick, The fewer lines the denser the wood and the heavier it may be.
sorry - but I must disagree. Annular growth rings that are close together indicate a tree that grew more slowly and should yield more dense wood than a faster growing tree of the same species.

Few lines (fast growth) = less density.
More lines (slow growth) = higher density.

I've found the Vic Firth Weckl Signature sticks to have nice balance - they're almost identical to the Gadd sigs, but are longer and feel more back-weighted to me because of the length.

Last edited by cnw60; 03-02-2007 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 03-05-2007, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

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Originally Posted by cnw60 View Post
sorry - but I must disagree. Annular growth rings that are close together indicate a tree that grew more slowly and should yield more dense wood than a faster growing tree of the same species.

Few lines (fast growth) = less density.
More lines (slow growth) = higher density.

I've found the Vic Firth Weckl Signature sticks to have nice balance - they're almost identical to the Gadd sigs, but are longer and feel more back-weighted to me because of the length.
Yes, but I think you missed the point. You can get both the Gadd and Weckl sticks in light, med and heavy weights...

As far as the growth rings, I said it works most of the time, pick up a pair of the same model sticks, one with a dozzen lines on the butt and one with 3 lines and tell me what is heavier.
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Old 03-05-2007, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonni View Post
Yes, but I think you missed the point. You can get both the Gadd and Weckl sticks in light, med and heavy weights...

As far as the growth rings, I said it works most of the time, pick up a pair of the same model sticks, one with a dozzen lines on the butt and one with 3 lines and tell me what is heavier.
Fair enough - next time I'm in the store, I'll check it out with some different sticks.

I just know from experience that 2x4's with more lines are usually heavier than those with fewer.
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonni View Post
Yes, but I think you missed the point. You can get both the Gadd and Weckl sticks in light, med and heavy weights...

As far as the growth rings, I said it works most of the time, pick up a pair of the same model sticks, one with a dozzen lines on the butt and one with 3 lines and tell me what is heavier.
So for example the sticks I just picked up, one has four lines the other has 6, does that mean they are "miss matched"?
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

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Originally Posted by Legacyrik View Post
So for example the sticks I just picked up, one has four lines the other has 6, does that mean they are "miss matched"?
In the very strictest sense - probably yes - BUT, in reality it may be impossible to find two sticks that are really, truly, perfectly matched. You have to trust your ears. In the end - the only thing that matters is whether the two sticks sound the same when they strike the drum (assuming they're played with exactly the same force, same grip pressure, same rebound, and striking exactly the same spot on the drum head). I find that a practice pad does the best job of revealing pitch variation between sticks (or technique inconsistencies between the hands... but that may be getting a little off-topic...).

having said all of that, I also think that unless you're playing snare drum in an orchestra or participating in a WFD competition, miniscule variations in weight are not really that big of a deal, just think about all the times you may be playing a stick with one hand while the other hand is playing a shaker, or a mallet or brush, and when you drop a stick and the first thing you grab out of the stick bag doesn't match the one you dropped - it's not like your hands start freaking out and getting spastic because of it - so if you can handle that - does it really matter if one stick weighs 3 milligrams more than the other????
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Old 03-21-2007, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnw60 View Post
In the very strictest sense - probably yes - BUT, in reality it may be impossible to find two sticks that are really, truly, perfectly matched. You have to trust your ears. In the end - the only thing that matters is whether the two sticks sound the same when they strike the drum (assuming they're played with exactly the same force, same grip pressure, same rebound, and striking exactly the same spot on the drum head). I find that a practice pad does the best job of revealing pitch variation between sticks (or technique inconsistencies between the hands... but that may be getting a little off-topic...).

having said all of that, I also think that unless you're playing snare drum in an orchestra or participating in a WFD competition, miniscule variations in weight are not really that big of a deal, just think about all the times you may be playing a stick with one hand while the other hand is playing a shaker, or a mallet or brush, and when you drop a stick and the first thing you grab out of the stick bag doesn't match the one you dropped - it's not like your hands start freaking out and getting spastic because of it - so if you can handle that - does it really matter if one stick weighs 3 milligrams more than the other????
I have had sticks I have bought that when I picked them up just didn't feel right. Just recently I had a pair that made me check the right stick every time I picked them up. It felt lighter(I'm sure nothing to do with the fact I'm right handed:) )... I'll have to check that out when I get home, although I think I may have broke that one while I was watching the Dom "High Moller" video, lol.
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  #11  
Old 03-21-2007, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacyrik View Post
I have had sticks I have bought that when I picked them up just didn't feel right. Just recently I had a pair that made me check the right stick every time I picked them up. It felt lighter(I'm sure nothing to do with the fact I'm right handed:) )... I'll have to check that out when I get home, although I think I may have broke that one while I was watching the Dom "High Moller" video, lol.
how do you know which one is the 'right' stick??
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  #12  
Old 03-22-2007, 01:46 AM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

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Originally Posted by cnw60 View Post
how do you know which one is the 'right' stick??
hehe... good point. I do just sit my sticks down on the snare when I'm done.... :)
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  #13  
Old 03-23-2007, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

UPDATE TO NEW STICK PURCHASE:

Remember I had said I bought new sticks with big difference in "butt ring count"? :) I noticed last night, doing drills on the pad, that the right stick was making a higher sound. Of course I figured it was my still sucking technique so I focused but couldn't get them the same. So just to check I switched the sticks and the left now sounded higher! Sweet, I'm not sucking as much as I thought! But my sticks suck.

Oh and the stick with the fewer lines was making the higher pitch. Guess I'll be trying to get the same line count from here on out.

Thanks for the tip!
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Old 03-23-2007, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacyrik View Post
So for example the sticks I just picked up, one has four lines the other has 6, does that mean they are "miss matched"?
No, because if you stick them on a gram scale they may still come out to be the same weight. Maybe one stick has dencer wood in the middle of the stick or at the tip. Vs. the other stick having dencer wood at the butt end. But stick them on a scale and they turn out to be the same.

Most pairs of drumsticks will be about a gram or two off from one another. I stickthe lighter one in my right hand and if feels like they balance out a bit.

As far as the whole pitch paring thing. Again, a lot of companies do it, but who cares if you play drumset? Break a stick, grab another that isn't matched.... And unless you hit with the exact same force with both hands and do a lot of single stroke rolls, no one will notice, and it doesn't matter.

If you really want to find the pitch of a stick, open your mouth, and holding the stick with your thumb and index finger right, at the fulcrum, hit the shaft (just below the shoulder) on the side of your head. You will hear a "tump" noise. It will be high or low in pitch. It's a pin in the ass and hurts a little, but as long as your hearing is good it will work better than a machine.
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Old 03-23-2007, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: weight balance in sticks

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonni View Post
No, because if you stick them on a gram scale they may still come out to be the same weight. Maybe one stick has dencer wood in the middle of the stick or at the tip. Vs. the other stick having dencer wood at the butt end. But stick them on a scale and they turn out to be the same.

Most pairs of drumsticks will be about a gram or two off from one another. I stickthe lighter one in my right hand and if feels like they balance out a bit.

As far as the whole pitch paring thing. Again, a lot of companies do it, but who cares if you play drumset? Break a stick, grab another that isn't matched.... And unless you hit with the exact same force with both hands and do a lot of single stroke rolls, no one will notice, and it doesn't matter.

If you really want to find the pitch of a stick, open your mouth, and holding the stick with your thumb and index finger right, at the fulcrum, hit the shaft (just below the shoulder) on the side of your head. You will hear a "tump" noise. It will be high or low in pitch. It's a pin in the ass and hurts a little, but as long as your hearing is good it will work better than a machine.

Agreed, probably not noticable, unless of course you are doing drill.. Hopefully that is frequently though;)

Is this kind of trick to get the newbie to hit himself with a drumstick:) Just kidding, thanks for the tips, I appreciate it.
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