Should I re-learn my foot technique?

[T-1000]

If you can play heel up double bass using ankle technique at 230bpm for 30 minutes, but can't keep it consistant at 110bpm - would you have to re-learn your technique - or just practice at slower tempo's?

[h3r3tic]

Originally Posted by T-1000

If you can play heel up double bass using ankle technique at 230bpm for 30 minutes, but can't keep it consistant at 110bpm - would you have to re-learn your technique - or just practice at slower tempo's?

Try doubles... or why not take a peek on the double bass thread?
useful stuff. or check out derrick pope and tim waterson´s videos

[jazzsnob]

Practice heel down, more control that way.

[Drummer30]

I agree with Jazzsnob. I'm not sure if you've heard of Triviums Travis Smith, but he plays some wicked complicated but not necessarily fast beats on the bass and says, right in an interview with MD, that he has adopted heel down because it helps him to play more consistently and accurately. But don't lose the heel up since having both techniques is great.

I'm guessing it's because you only learned the technique at high speeds, rather than learn it slowly and properly and work it up to the speed you are currently at.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Originally Posted by T-1000

If you can play heel up double bass using ankle technique at 230bpm for 30 minutes, but can't keep it consistant at 110bpm - would you have to re-learn your technique - or just practice at slower tempo's?

Bro, if you can really play at 230 BPM for 30 minutes you need to compete in the WFD because you're faster than Virgil Donati.

Practice slowly.

[Drum-Head]

You need to concentrate on precision and consistence starting at very slow tempos. Go all the way back down to 50bpm and work your way up.

Another interesting way to work out is to alternate one bar of 16th notes with one bar of 16th note triplets with and without back beat and riding. Again; focusing on consistence and precision.

It is essential, in my opinion, to master *insert anything here* slow before having speed. I'd go far as saying that if one can not do it slowly, then the chances are that person does not master the given exercise.

Good luck!

[Mendelson the Drummer]

Originally Posted by T-1000

If you can play heel up double bass using ankle technique at 230bpm for 30 minutes, but can't keep it consistant at 110bpm - would you have to re-learn your technique - or just practice at slower tempo's?

I hate to break this to you man but even though you can technically stay on beat at higher speeds, you must be sloppy. Now you can't actually HEAR yourself being sloppy at 230 bpm, but man I'll tell you what:

-Record yourself playing NOW
-Do whatever it takes to play double bass PROPERLY at way slower tempos man, f*** 110 you start at 50 bpm THEN work your way up, I dare you, you will be so much tigther.
-Record yourself at 230 bpm when you can play 50-230 bpm ACCURATELY for 30 minutes, listen to the tapes, your practice will tell it all.

You keep on going with choppy sloppy speed and your gonna be replace by a computer, sad but true.

Good luck.

[jazzin']

Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda

Bro, if you can really play at 230 BPM for 30 minutes you need to compete in the WFD because you're faster than Virgil Donati.

Practice slowly.

Man, I agree. Not only that but if you can play at 230 for 30 minutes, half an hour, how you don't have the control at slower tempos is utterly beyond me. I might be able to understand it if you could only play that quick for short bursts but to have that kind of endurance is really quite incredible! Amazing actually!

Why don't you practice sprint-type exercises. Metronome at 100bpm play for a minute then double it up to 200 then after another minute back to half time. Should give you the control you're after. Although I'm surprised you wouldn't have done this type of thing alot? If you haven't.

[T-1000]

Originally Posted by jazzin'

Man, I agree. Not only that but if you can play at 230 for 30 minutes, half an hour, how you don't have the control at slower tempos is utterly beyond me. I might be able to understand it if you could only play that quick for short bursts but to have that kind of endurance is really quite incredible! Amazing actually!

Why don't you practice sprint-type exercises. Metronome at 100bpm play for a minute then double it up to 200 then after another minute back to half time. Should give you the control you're after. Although I'm surprised you wouldn't have done this type of thing alot? If you haven't.

Haha, sorry, I didn't make it clear; I was speaking hypothetically - I can't play 230 for sh*t. I'm quite possibly the slowest double basser in the world - I can't hold 182bpm for much longer than 30 mins - but, I DO practice to a metronome - so it is consistant.

I have trouble playing mid-tempo double bass (can do really slow alright) - so I'm not sure whether to completely re-learn my foot technique or not - as it is I've started to practice 5-10 mins of mid tempo left foot heel up (the right foot is fine) to try and correct it, but, again, am not sure if this midtempo inadequacy is indicating that I should start from scratch.

[Drum-Head]

Originally Posted by T-1000

Haha, sorry, I didn't make it clear; I was speaking hypothetically - I can't play 230 for sh*t. I'm quite possibly the slowest double basser in the world - I can't hold 182bpm for much longer than 30 mins - but, I DO practice to a metronome - so it is consistant.

I have trouble playing mid-tempo double bass (can do really slow alright) - so I'm not sure whether to completely re-learn my foot technique or not - as it is I've started to practice 5-10 mins of mid tempo left foot heel up (the right foot is fine) to try and correct it, but, again, am not sure if this midtempo inadequacy is indicating that I should start from scratch.

Even being able to play 16th notes at 182bpm, the problem remains the same. It is not normal to be able to play at high speeds and not be able to play "mid-tempo" 16ths. Also, playing to a metronome does not guarantee consistence and precision.

It not easy to tell just with words, but seems to me that you might be just spazing out or something of the likes to get such speeds (although holding it for 30min that way seems impossible.) In my opinion, you need to go back to the slow tempos and work your way up.

[Will Hendrix]

There is no real technique to your feet, as I progressed I just found myself using more flatfoot nat higher speeds, trying to change your technique will only result in failure.

And yes, mid tempos in general are quite difficult, the thing is, up to around 180-190 bpm, the movements are pretty much all in the legs, as it goes faster then that, it's more of a flatfoot technique. The reason why mid tempos (usually from around 140-170) are so difficult is because most people try to get alot of power at these tempos, which are pretty hard to achieve using only legs.

[sshu]

FWIW - I learned heel down for many years. I think heel down is better suited for precision playing whereas I can get more power heel up. But I have not found that heel down practice helps me play heel up (although maybe others have found that it helps them buld muscles). To me they are different techniques, and I have to practice each technique separately.

Steve

[cnw60]

Originally Posted by T-1000

Haha, sorry, I didn't make it clear; I was speaking hypothetically - I can't play 230 for sh*t. I'm quite possibly the slowest double basser in the world - I can't hold 182bpm for much longer than 30 mins - but, I DO practice to a metronome - so it is consistant.

I have trouble playing mid-tempo double bass (can do really slow alright) - so I'm not sure whether to completely re-learn my foot technique or not - as it is I've started to practice 5-10 mins of mid tempo left foot heel up (the right foot is fine) to try and correct it, but, again, am not sure if this midtempo inadequacy is indicating that I should start from scratch.

this is kind of like what happens when practicing rudiments open to close to open. There's always an awkward point in the middle of the range where you're not really playing fast enough for the sticks (or feet) to be flowing freely, but it's also NOT QUITE slow enough for each stroke to be a distinct individual stroke - it's actually the transition point between 'open' and 'closed'. Anyway - it sounds like that's similar to where you're at with your feet, when you're playing slow, distinct beats - everything's cool, and when you're playing fast enough to let things flow - that's cool too, BUT - somewhere in the middle - not cool.

So maybe you should practice playing open to closed with your feet - changing the speed very gradually so you can find the critical tempo that gives you the most trouble. Then just practice all around that tempo, moving slowly a little bit faster and a little bit slower... other than that I can't really comment on your technique other than to second the rest of the earlier recommendations to work heel down.

[SEVNT7]

Look up my post in the double bass thread....do that ex. 60 x's, (60 bpm- 120 bpm) And get back to me.....T

[jazzin']

Originally Posted by T-1000

Haha, sorry, I didn't make it clear; I was speaking hypothetically - I can't play 230 for sh*t. I'm quite possibly the slowest double basser in the world - I can't hold 182bpm for much longer than 30 mins - but, I DO practice to a metronome - so it is consistant.

I have trouble playing mid-tempo double bass (can do really slow alright) - so I'm not sure whether to completely re-learn my foot technique or not - as it is I've started to practice 5-10 mins of mid tempo left foot heel up (the right foot is fine) to try and correct it, but, again, am not sure if this midtempo inadequacy is indicating that I should start from scratch.

Oh ok cool. Wow I thought to myself 'That's got to be the weirdest thing I heard in a while'.
182 bpm isn't exactly slow! You might be comparing yourself to guys who do 200 + but they really are few and far between that do it well...I think. Anyways, I can't suggest anything in terms of practice with double bass 'cause I don't play it. The old adage 'perfect practice makes you perfect' should be changed to 'perfect practice makes you damn fast' for drummers.

Actually an exercise I used to do which was just for general foot control and coordination which I found really helpful (still do it as warmup) was to practice: As per usual start real slow.
*Single strokes with hands (16th note) - 16th note single strokes with feet underneath. I start out with left foot following right hand.
-then move on to double strokes with the feet, still playing single strokes with hands.
-paradiddles with feet, single hands.
*Double stroke hands and follow exactly the same procedure with the feet then...
*Paradiddle with hands, same procedure with feet.
Give it a try if you can be bothered. It's kinda fun. Oh, and whenever you start right hand with right foot, as in it follows the exact same pattern as hands, I swap it around so left foot leads or in case of doubles - right hand follows left foot and same as in paradiddles. Helps to break up the habit of feet following hands.