John Bonham

[Fox622003]

I have to agree in that he is overrated, or more precisely, given too much credit for stuff that really wasn't that important, and not given the proper credit for other things. As the previous poster said, Good Times, Bad Times and Fool in the Rain are great examples (And not only the shuffle there, when he goes to the ride bell, he plays a cool polyrhythm), they are truly original grooves, there are others, too. Compared to Paice for example, who doesn't really have many grooves as interesting. That said, I don't think his playing was that great, but he had some signature fills and stuff, came up with a few legendary beats, and his sound was quite unique.


Fox.

[Pollyanna]

Originally Posted by keep it simple

Yes, me! Although I was aware of, and listened to Zep, I really didn't take on much, if anything from Bonzo. I was much more into the drumming of Nigel Olsson, Danny Seraphine, Denis Elliott, Jeff Porcaro, Prairie Prince, Carl Palmer, etc, etc. That said, he certainly carved a style of his own and I'm sure my rock drumming would be better if I had taken influence from him.

Wow, so it is possible! Oh well., with influences like those, you can't (and didn't) go wrong. I was a big fan of those players too, apart from Dennis E but that was later on. At the start, it was all about the famous heavy drummers I mentioned earlier. With Dennis E I never got over the disappointment after buying Foreigner's debut album because the band included King Crimson's Ian McDonald. I was expecting curry and ended up with a hamburger :(

Originally Posted by jon e rotten

Four words: When the Levee Breaks

is it hard..no....is it awesome...yes

Beautifully put.

Originally Posted by Strangelove

You have to really listen to the subtleties of his style to appreciate how talented he was. Just try to play along to Good Times, Bad Times, or play that shuffle beat he does to Fool in the Rain before labeling him just an average Joe. Those sixteenth note triplets he could dribble off on the bass drum were also truly unique to him.

Agree, and he continued to develop too. When I first heard Achilles Last Stand and Bonzo played that massive Cobham-esque fill about halfway through my jaw just about hit the floor. His tightness in Nobody's Fault was mind-blowing too. You have to hand it to Zep - the whole band had fantastic timing.

Originally Posted by Fox622003

they are truly original grooves, there are others, too. Compared to Paice for example, who doesn't really have many grooves as interesting

True but, to be fair, Purple were a far less eclectic band so Ian P had less opportunity to be original. Ian did come up with some killer lines - Fireball, Burn and, especially, You Fool No One.

Another song with killer Bonzo beats was Gallows Pole.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Originally Posted by Strangelove

That said, I think he was way above and beyond the "in the pocket drummers" - guys like like Watts and Rudd. You have to really listen to the subtleties of his style to appreciate how talented he was. Just try to play along to Good Times, Bad Times, or play that shuffle beat he does to Fool in the Rain before labeling him just an average Joe. Those sixteenth note triplets he could dribble off on the bass drum were also truly unique to him.

Haha.......I just KNEW someone would express my thoughts on this just splendidly (and I actually shoulda guessed it would be you, doctor!!).

Da best drumma eva???.........No. The best ROCK drummer ever?......open for debate and personal opinion. One of the most influential?.....Indeedy he was. History speaks for him!!

[CareyCopelandCameron]

most influental?na...maybe....most overrated drummer of all the time?YES

[Django136]

John Bonham may be overrated but get it through your mind people, He is the BEST drummer to EVER step foot on this planet. For instance listen to Moby Dick, that'll give you a good taste of just how dang good that guy is. R.I.P John Henry Bonham

[Django136]

This guy is the best drummer that has ever stepped foot on this planet. His best solo and the BEST solo ever Moby Dick. Listen to it if you haven't yet. Its personally my favourite drum solo.http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/J...mmobidick.html. Also be sure to check out Carter Beuford's drum solo on Two Step, pretty nice solo too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOatIrazULw. John Bonham's drumming still goes on to many inspired drummers even though he is not with us today. Zeppelin could not replace someone as a drummer to do what Bonham did, its like impossible! Please leave any comments about this amazing and inspiring drummer, Mr. John Henry Bonham. Some people may say He's overrated, and he may be but performance is what matters! Remember that!

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Yeah, mate....I'm also a huge fan, BUT terms like 'best ever' are hard to swallow I've always found. My current list of "best ever's" runs to more than 100 drummers!!

By the way, there is also a long running thread on JHB.....check it out as this thread will get moved there.

[Eggman]

Anyone who's been named the greatest anything is going to be called overrated by somebody. Calling John Bonham or Ringo Starr or Neil Peart or whoever overrated is just something people say when they don't have any real argument to make about the person's drumming.

Not sure I'd call him the best drummer ever, but definitely among the best.

[toddy]

terms like 'greatest ever' bear no relevance to me.. there are great drummers, but its not a competition. i feel no need to put anyone on a pedestal.

wasn't there a thread up for him already? hmm. anyway yeah, he is a great drummer.
i use the present tense because he still has a huge influence over rock music today.

[MikeM]

Yeah, I don't get the "best ever" stuff, either. The guy was a great drummer, no doubt about it. Cool sounding drums: check. Nice strong groove: check. Hugely influential: double check.

But I'll tell you what I don't get: In all my years of drumming I never would have guessed that so many people would one day be using his likeness for their usernames and avatars (obviously wasn't thinking internet forums).

Seriously, I can recall off the top of my head two, maybe three, drummers on this forum using another drummers' likeness on usernames and avatars but probably a dozen who use Bonham's.

Is everyone too embarrassed to admit or remember that Neil Peart was such a huge influence? Because as I remember back on it, Neil Peart was consistently at the top of everyone's favorite drummer list (refer back to MD reader polls from that era). I'm tempted to wonder if it's because he didn't die right after Moving Pictures! Apologies if this is coming across as flippant, but I've been growing increasingly curious about the nature of Bonham's legendary status as it continues to grow.

It also makes me wonder if Bonham would still be so wildly popular if he were still alive and an old geezer trying to live off his glory years. Maybe his drumming might seem a little stale by now and lost some of its luster.

But I really am impressed with Bonham's staying power over the years, even if I don't totally understand it. As a kid growing up playing drums through the late '70s and '80s, Bonham never cracked my top 10 favorite drummers. Perhaps he's higher on my list now, but at this point I have so many favorites, it's not even funny. He's just one among many.

[gonzomaniac71]

I never thought Moby Dick was the best drum solo, I'd have to give that to Joe Morello for Castilian Drums back when he was part of the Dave Brubeck Quartet. But Bonham was hugely influential in rock drumming in general, anyone who came after Bonham was in some way influenced by Bonham...I think the only contemporary drummer that has a shot at rivaling him is Benny Greb.

[toddy]

young players should be expanding upon the stuff that bonham does. yes you should look backwards, but you should do it in such a way that it helps you move forward. my opinion.

[harryconway]

33 pages of thread here: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ht=john+bonham

[MikeM]

Originally Posted by Django136

John Bonham may be overrated but get it through your mind people, He is the BEST drummer to EVER step foot on this planet. For instance listen to Moby Dick, that'll give you a good taste of just how dang good that guy is. R.I.P John Henry Bonham

Wow, not leaving much room for another opinion or perspective on the matter, are you? This kind of thing is subjective, you know. Clearly, he's your favorite drummer.

[Strangelove]

Originally Posted by MikeM

Yeah, I don't get the "best ever" stuff, either. The guy was a great drummer, no doubt about it. Cool sounding drums: check. Nice strong groove: check. Hugely influential: double check.

But I'll tell you what I don't get: In all my years of drumming I never would have guessed that so many people would one day be using his likeness for their usernames and avatars (obviously wasn't thinking internet forums).

Seriously, I can recall off the top of my head two, maybe three, drummers on this forum using another drummers' likeness on usernames and avatars but probably a dozen who use Bonham's.

Is everyone too embarrassed to admit or remember that Neil Peart was such a huge influence? Because as I remember back on it, Neil Peart was consistently at the top of everyone's favorite drummer list (refer back to MD reader polls from that era). I'm tempted to wonder if it's because he didn't die right after Moving Pictures! Apologies if this is coming across as flippant, but I've been growing increasingly curious about the nature of Bonham's legendary status as it continues to grow.

It also makes me wonder if Bonham would still be so wildly popular if he were still alive and an old geezer trying to live off his glory years. Maybe his drumming might seem a little stale by now and lost some of its luster.

But I really am impressed with Bonham's staying power over the years, even if I don't totally understand it. As a kid growing up playing drums through the late '70s and '80s, Bonham never cracked my top 10 favorite drummers. Perhaps he's higher on my list now, but at this point I have so many favorites, it's not even funny. He's just one among many.

I think there is some kind of cult following developing for all things Zeppelin for some reason. My son is at a worship phase for Bonham right now too, and his guitarists have the same hots for Page and Jones. I don't even try to figure it out - maybe their generation's music sucks so bad that they are reaching out for my generation's mega-bands. Another worship of theirs is Pink Floyd and The Doors - neither band whose drummers were ever on my radar screens back in the day. I am not dissing Nick Mason, or John Densmore, but I think the fact that they played for such legendary mega rock bands gets them much more noteriety than they would have gotten anywhere else. Bonham was a cut above most rock drummers in those days, but so was Ginger Baker, Carl Palmer, Danny Seraphine, Neil Peart, and Bill Bruford. Which one was the absolute best? Ginger Baker will probably scarf that titlle up himself personally - or maybe he and Carmine Appice can duke it out for top dog, lol - who really cares? I personally think it was Neil Peart, but that is my opinion and I am only one of too many. Rush however, was not and probably never will get as popular as the Zep. Jimmy Page deserves most of the artistic credit for every place that band has been, though, and as much credit as Pagey loves to shower on Bonzo, I don't think John Paul Jones will ever dispute that fact. I wonder if Page doesn't have some inner hauntings for all that Allistair Crowley/Black Magic crap and the fact that Bonham died in his house. All I know is that back in the 1970's nobody worshipped Bonham the way they do now. Bill Ludwig didn't even pay him much attention. Still, he was a cut above most rock drummers.

[bonzolead]

Originally Posted by CareyCopelandCameron

most influental?na...maybe....most overrated drummer of all the time?YES

Carey,Copeland of Cameron which I do like all said they was influenced by Bonham I guess that just adds to his overrated factor LOL.

Bonzolead

[Ian Williams]

John Bonham is Moby Dick.
His feeling and technique were unique, love those Paiste Giant Beats cymbals that he played in the beginning and his bass drum triplets.

I would say D.I.P = Drum In Peace ~ Dear Bonham.

[BigShow36]

Its impossible to quantify how good "X" drummer is compared to "Y." Attempting to do so is simply going to cause undue animosity. That said, there are drummers who obviously stand out for whatever reason from their peers, just like bands as an entity sometimes do.

John Bonham is obviously one of those drummers. Is he as technically proficient as some modern drummers or some drummers back in his day? Probably not. But drums aren't an instrument that rely soley on technique. Feel, groove, and taste are all arguably more important that any technical prowess.

Bonzo is a rock drumming legend who has insipred hundreds of thousands of drummers. His influence cannot be overstated. He is inextricably part of one of the largest bands of all time, much like Ringo to the Beatles, and is one of the few drummers who defines the instrument.

I know that people can sometimes get caught up in looking for technical frills in drummers, but holy-****, listen to that groove.

[harryconway]

Originally Posted by Django136

John Bonham may be overrated but get it through your mind people, He is the BEST drummer to EVER step foot on this planet. For instance listen to Moby Dick, that'll give you a good taste of just how dang good that guy is. R.I.P John Henry Bonham

To ever step foot on this planet! Really. Seems there was this cat. Tony Williams. Born in 1945. Played with Miles Davis, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock and Ron Carter in 1962. Tony was 17 years old at the time.

First Zepp. album was in 1969, which would make Bonham 21 (born in 1948). Sure, I enjoy listenning to and playing Zepp/Bonham stuff. I can't even begin to play some of the stuff Tony Williams threw down. So.....BEST drummer to EVER step foot on this planet......sorry, I'm not buying what your selling.

[Strangelove]

Originally Posted by Ian Williams

love those Paiste Giant Beats cymbals that he played in the beginning and his bass drum triplets.

Would it be disrespectful to admit that I love his cymbals more than his playing? The shimmer of those white label Giant Beats is what got me interested in Paistes to begin with. Immigrant Song is a classic Giant Beat 18" Multi crash sound and Stairway - lord, that beautiful silvery ping and wash of that 24" Ride..............................you guys that worship Tony's ride have no idea what Bonzo's ride does for us rockers, lol.

[Pkaneps]

Originally Posted by jon e rotten

Four words: When the Levee Breaks

is it hard..no....is it awesome...yes

Amen.


I no longer make lists of any 'Best ______ ever'. It's too difficult to compare across genres. To watch and to listen to, John Bonham is my favorite drummer. Overrated or not, he's my biggest influence and the reason I even wanted to play drums.

Of course there are better drummers, but there are none that I'd rather listen to.

[Drums101]

Originally Posted by Django136

. His best solo and the BEST solo ever Moby Dick.

I pretty sure that's the most ludicrous statement I have ever heard.

I actually didn't like Led Zep when they first came out. They only grew on me because growing up in Brooklyn in the late 60's early 70's my cousin played the damn album every single morning while we got ready for school...."How many more tiii-iiimes......beat meeee...the wayyy you pleeee-ase!" :-) (How many more times did I want to throw that record out into the street!)...UGH!

I was so into Hendrix and Mitchell that Zep just wasn't even close to being in the same league. Mitchell is THE one that made me want to start playing drums in the first place, (later in '71 I got to record in Jimi's Electric Lady Studios with my NYC original rock band...what a trip!...alas Jimi had already stepped on out across his rainbow bridge)...when I heard Mitch's drumming on "FIRE" that was it for me...I was hooked....hook, line, and sinker....and today I still rate my TOP favorite drummers as Rich, Mitchell, Paice, and Cobham. Compared to these three? Bonham doesn't even come close, can't hold a candle to 'em. To be fair to him, he did fit the music and he's a household name, just like a thousand other guys, but the best drummer ever? The best soloist ever? Methinks not.

Guys back in the 30's and 40's were doing triplets and cross-overs in their sleep. JB had nice 16th foot work, but that was the only technique I saw that was the slightest bit different or stood him out from any of the other contemporaries of the time. He certainly had no 'godly knowledge' of the rudiments fer' cryin' out loud. And let me tell you, those early cats knew their rudiments upside down, sideways, and any other way you can think of.

The bottom line is this. His engineer did a hell of a recording job and THAT'S who deserves the credit for JB's 'BIG' sound. A good sound engineer is worth his weight in gold, an excellent one is priceless....and most of you know you can take THAT to the bank. ESPECIALLY when it comes to drum recording and live stage mix.

Paige probably had a lot to do with a LOT of what Bonzo could get away with recording-wise, and conversely, not get away with. Like I could imagine that JB tried to wrest his acrylics into the studio one day and Jimmy stopped him cold with "Not on me' watch. mate! 'Yer not bringing those bloody plastic tree planters in this studio...you use the bloomin' Maple's!

If any of you have ever watched their 1973 performances at Madison Square Garden, ("The Song Remains The Same" released in 1976) you KNOW they made a shambles out of that concert, horrible, horrible, abysmally horrific! All the songs were mish-mashed, half the band didn't know what the hell was going on, Bonzo's vistalites sounded crappy...as vistalites are wont to do......and I thought to myself...."THIS? This is the best Rock n' Roll band in the world? This is absolutely the worst thing I have ever heard in my life..."...and I had to turn the video off. When I read that they had gotten swindled out of $203,000.00 I thought "Somebody's not happy!" LOL " Shyster promoters got some of their money back probably...."

Bonham purveyed the idea that bigger is better, hence the "iconic" 14 X 26 Luddy. Big deal. Hell, most of the early cats cut their teeth on 14 X 28's....grew up on 'em.....like Chick Webb in the 20's and 30's. Little guy, suffered with tuberculosis of the spine from childhood, short stature, distorted spine, lived with it all his life, drummed with it all his life, led his band while suffering from it, and finally died a young man of 34!

"In 1931 Buddy Rich cited Webb's powerful technique and virtuoso performances as heavily influential on his own drumming, and even referred to Webb as "the daddy of them all".

"Art Blakey and Duke Ellington both credit Webb with influencing their music. Krupa credited Webb with raising drummer awareness and paving the way for drummer-led bands, which Krupa would later employ. His thundering solos created a complexity and an energy that paved the way for Buddy Rich (who studied Webb intensely) and Louie Bellson..."

Don't just take my word on it, read the history for yourself on the Wik link I posted down below.

Talk about an Unsung Hero....Go figure!

Now my generation of drummers, guys like Paice, Powell, Shrieve...all of Zappa's drummers...they had their own thing going on that trumped JHB pretty effortlessly, and the truly greats like drummers/bandleaders/players like Webb, Bellson, Krupa, Rich, Williams and a veritable host of others et al? THEY were the true mentors.

I do love my '70's Slingerland deep cob snare and 1930 Slingerland 16 X 32 bass drum though! JB just used a measly 26" lol

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...2f70957efc.jpg


Now when you think on it, the 30's drummers learned from the 20's drummers, the 40's drummers learned from the 30's drummers, and neck bone's connected to the shoulder bone, ...and so on and so forth, so that by the time the 60's and 70's rolled around, we (my generation) had learned from ALL those guys, then on into the 70's 80's and now here in 2010, what a plethora of knowledge this current generation of drummers has garnered...and how about in the next 50 years? It's only been 100+ years since the first drum sets were cobbled together after evolving from drum corps, marching drum techniques (Traditional grip like I play to the now-vaunted matched grip), the evolution of marching rudiments to drum kit exploitation, the vision and construction of first true drum kits and on and on and on et exhaustem infinitum....so no wonder there are so many excellent drummers out there, from every nation and every tribe!

We are the elite, we are a fraternity like no other. The guitarists can have their amps on 11, the bassists can boast more bottom (No pun intended...well maybe a wee bit), and the keyboardists can have their ivories tickled...but who ALLOWS them to play? Who mesmerizes them, and amazes them, and boosts them to their highest potential, ladies and gentlemen?

WE DO!

'Nuff said...






















"Ladies and Gentlemen! The inimitable Mr. CHICK WEBB!!!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_Webb



Edited for Bonzo typo

[bonzolead]

Originally Posted by Destroyone

I actually didn't like Led Zep when they first came out. They only grew on me because growing up in Brooklyn in the late 60's early 70's my cousin played the damn album every single morning while we got ready for school...."How many more tiii-iiimes......beat meeee...the wayyy you pleeee-ase!" :-) (How many more times did I want to throw that record out into the street!)...UGH!

I was so into Hendrix and Mitchell that Zep just wasn't even close to being in the same league. Mitchell is THE one that made me want to start playing drums in the first place, (later in '71 I got to record in Jimi's Electric Lady Studios with my NYC original rock band...what a trip!...alas Jimi had already stepped on out across his rainbow bridge)...when I heard Mitch's drumming on "FIRE" that was it for me...I was hooked....hook, line, and sinker....and today I still rate my TOP favorite drummers as Rich, Mitchell, Paice, and Cobham. Compared to these three? Bonham doesn't even come close, can't hold a candle to 'em. To be fair to him, he did fit the music and he's a household name, just like a thousand other guys, but the best drummer ever? The best soloist ever? Methinks not.

Guys back in the 30's and 40's were doing triplets and cross-overs in their sleep. JB had nice 16th foot work, but that was the only technique I saw that was the slightest bit different or stood him out from any of the other contemporaries of the time. He certainly had no 'godly knowledge' of the rudiments fer' cryin' out loud. And let me tell you, those early cats knew their rudiments upside down, sideways, and any other way you can think of.

The bottom line is this. His engineer did a hell of a recording job and THAT'S who deserves the credit for JB's 'BIG' sound. A good sound engineer is worth his weight in gold, an excellent one is priceless....and most of you know you can take THAT to the bank. ESPECIALLY when it comes to drum recording and live stage mix.

Paige probably had a lot to do with a LOT of what Bozo could get away with recording-wise, and conversely, not get away with. Like I could imagine that JB tried to wrest his acrylics into the studio one day and Jimmy stopped him cold with "Not on me' watch. mate! 'Yer not bringing those bloody plastic tree planters in this studio...you use the bloomin' Maple's!

If any of you have ever watched their 1973 performances at Madison Square Garden, ("The Song Remains The Same" released in 1976) you KNOW they made a shambles out of that concert, horrible, horrible, abysmally horrific! All the songs were mish-mashed, half the band didn't know what the hell was going on, Bozo's vistalites sounded crappy...as vistalites are wont to do......and I thought to myself...."THIS? This is the best Rock n' Roll band in the world? This is absolutely the worst thing I have ever heard in my life..."...and I had to turn the video off. When I read that they had gotten swindled out of $203,000.00 I thought "Somebody's not happy!" LOL " Shyster promoters got some of their money back probably...."

Bonham purveyed the idea that bigger is better, hence the "iconic" 14 X 26 Luddy. Big deal. Hell, most of the early cats cut their teeth on 14 X 28's....grew up on 'em.....like Chick Webb in the 20's and 30's. Little guy, suffered with tuberculosis of the spine from childhood, short stature, distorted spine, lived with it all his life, drummed with it all his life, led his band while suffering from it, and finally died a young man of 34!

"In 1931 Buddy Rich cited Webb's powerful technique and virtuoso performances as heavily influential on his own drumming, and even referred to Webb as "the daddy of them all".

"Art Blakey and Duke Ellington both credit Webb with influencing their music. Krupa credited Webb with raising drummer awareness and paving the way for drummer-led bands, which Krupa would later employ. His thundering solos created a complexity and an energy that paved the way for Buddy Rich (who studied Webb intensely) and Louie Bellson..."

Don't just take my word on it, read the history for yourself on the Wik link I posted down below.

Talk about an Unsung Hero....Go figure!

Now my generation of drummers, guys like Paice, Powell, Shrieve...all of Zappa's drummers...they had their own thing going on that trumped JHB pretty effortlessly, and the truly greats like drummers/bandleaders/players like Webb, Bellson, Krupa, Rich, Williams and a veritable host of others et al? THEY were the true mentors. I don't know who Bozo studied, I don't know if he ever even discussed it, but knowing what I know and what I've read about his pathetic idiotic antics like taking dumps in women's purses and shoes and the like, I have very little respect for him as a man, and having this narcissistic attitude, I'm really not in the least bit surprised that he didn't give credit to those who mentored him. As a drummer he rates very low on my scale of top 100 drummers.

I do love my '70's Slingerland deep cob snare and 1930 Slingerland 16 X 32 bass drum though! JB just used a measly 26" Hah!



Now when you think on it, the 30's drummers learned from the 20's drummers, the 40's drummers learned from the 30's drummers, and neck bone's connected to the shoulder bone, ...and so on and so forth, so that by the time the 60's and 70's rolled around, we (my generation) had learned from ALL those guys, then on into the 70's 80's and now here in 2010, what a plethora of knowledge this current generation of drummers has garnered...and how about in the next 50 years? It's only been 100+ years since the first drum sets were cobbled together after evolving from drum corps, marching drum techniques (Traditional grip like I play to the now-vaunted matched grip), the evolution of marching rudiments to drum kit exploitation, the vision and construction of first true drum kits and on and on and on et exhaustem infinitum....so no wonder there are so many excellent drummers out there, from every nation and every tribe!

We are the elite, we are a fraternity like no other. The guitarists can have their amps on 11, the bassists can boast more bottom (No pun intended...well maybe a wee bit), and the keyboardists can have their ivories tickled...but who ALLOWS them to play? Who mesmerizes them, and amazes them, and boosts them to their highest potential, ladies and gentlemen?

WE DO!

'Nuff said...






















"Ladies and Gentlemen! The inimitable Mr. CHICK WEBB!!!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_Webb

None of the drummers you mentioned had the pure power Bonham had on a drumkit NUFF SAID, Look at the little solo bit at the end of "Dazed & Confused" from the crappy "The Song Remains The Same" & you'll understand.

Oh here's a little drum education for you, he was influenced by Krupa & Rich his 1up 2 down set up should of gave you a little clue I guess you were busy disagreeing with all the Bonham fans out there, He is Legend 33 pages,1304 replies & 104,953 views prove that by itself.

Nothing taken away from the drummers you mentioned they're Great and deserve mentioning I try too learn something from every drummer I've saw live or heard period no matter how bad or great they were & that's every drummer.

You shouldn't. be so simple-minded or should I say cymbal-minded LOL


Bonzolead

[Pollyanna]

Destroyone, I don't agree with some of your evaluations but that was an entertaining read :)

Originally Posted by Destroyone

A good sound engineer is worth his weight in gold, an excellent one is priceless

Couldn't agree more. However, no matter who's calling the shots or twiddling the knobs you have to give credit to the humble tub thumper who's doing the actual part. I think you undersold JB there. He really did play with a pleasing amount of oomph and groove, and it wasn't all someone else's vision.

Originally Posted by Destroyone

I still rate my TOP favorite drummers as Rich, Mitchell, Paice, and Cobham. Compared to these three? Bonham doesn't even come close

His major appeal to me is his feel. For a big hitter JB had lovely touch. He passes the acid test of a drummer - did he make the songs feel good? Yes he did! [sic]. Most of his tracks are a pleasure to listen to - either within the band sound or just focusing on the drums. If there's a rock drummer who's playing could be described as "sexy" it would be JB on those first two albums.

He was usually tidier than Mitch and funkier than Ian Paice, although those guys were more nimble. Different qualities, all enjoyable. Ian, Mitch, JB and Aynsley Dunbar were my first drum idols in the 70s. I don't feel JB can be compared with Billy C - different genres. Actually, I'm not sure anyone can be compared with Billy C in his with Mahavishnu period - that was white magic.

Originally Posted by Pollyanna

Destroyone, I don't agree with some of your evaluations but that was an entertaining read :)



Couldn't agree more. However, no matter who's calling the shots or twiddling the knobs you have to give credit to the humble tub thumper who's doing the actual part. I think you undersold JB there. He really did play with a pleasing amount of oomph and groove, and it wasn't all someone else's vision.



His major appeal to me is his feel. For a big hitter JB had lovely touch. He passes the acid test of a drummer - did he make the songs feel good? Yes he did! [sic]. Most of his tracks are a pleasure to listen to - either within the band sound or just focusing on the drums. If there's a rock drummer who's playing could be described as "sexy" it would be JB on those first two albums.

He was usually tidier than Mitch and funkier than Ian Paice, although those guys were more nimble. Different qualities, all enjoyable. Ian, Mitch, JB and Aynsley Dunbar were my first drum idols in the 70s. I don't feel JB can be compared with Billy C - different genres. Actually, I'm not sure anyone can be compared with Billy C in his with Mahavishnu period - that was white magic.

Yes, I quite agree. Dunbar is right up there at the top of my list. I saw Cobham with Mahavishnu live in Central Park in 70 or 71 and they blew me away. Billy made me just sit down and be very very still. Like a sponge still....I agree with no comparisons with Billy, and I'm not comparing him to JB, as you said, there is no one quite like Mr C.

And I'm glad you were entertained by the read. Somewhere around here I have a copy of "A Thunder Of Drums" and I think I'll re-read it on the plane. I want to check out the rest of this forum's content when I have a little more time after my wife and I return from from vacation.

This looks like an articulate educational discussion board that I can learn more than a few things about, I'm sure of it. Oh, and lest I forget my manners...

R.I.P. JB You are truly a legendary mentor for millions.

[Strangelove]

Originally Posted by Pollyanna

He was usually tidier than Mitch and funkier than Ian Paice, although those guys were more nimble. Different qualities, all enjoyable. Ian, Mitch, JB and Aynsley Dunbar were my first drum idols in the 70s. I don't feel JB can be compared with Billy C - different genres. Actually, I'm not sure anyone can be compared with Billy C in his with Mahavishnu period - that was white magic.

I have always felt the same. Mitch was always very busy, but sloppy and often off beat, at least in live performances (Woodstock comes to mind), particularly in his fills. Not that JB couldn't wander on his timing (everybody knows about his alcohol consumption in live performances), but Mitch Mitchell just never impressed me that much because of those imperfections. I actually like Hendrix better under Band of Gypsies because of the solid groove that Miles laid down. It was something Mitch was just incapable of.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Originally Posted by Destroyone

The bottom line is this. His engineer did a hell of a recording job and THAT'S who deserves the credit for JB's 'BIG' sound. A good sound engineer is worth his weight in gold, an excellent one is priceless....and most of you know you can take THAT to the bank. ESPECIALLY when it comes to drum recording and live stage mix.

I don't dispute the value of a good engineer by any measure. But it was indeed Page who can take the credit for any Zepp sounds captured on tape. No doubt about that.

He even made a point of displaying this by using a different engineer on every album. That was not 'by circumstance' but 'by design'. Don't forget JP was a seasoned session guitarist and arranger before he formed Zeppelin. He was no stranger to the inside of a recording studio by any means.

[jjmason777]

Hey everybody, scroll back down, and check out Chick's DRUM RACK ON WHEELS! I'm surprised nobody noted that before. It even looks like his bass drum is attached to it. Way ahead of it's time for the 30's.

[JoeA]

Originally Posted by Pkaneps

Amen.


I no longer make lists of any 'Best ______ ever'. It's too difficult to compare across genres. To watch and to listen to, John Bonham is my favorite drummer. Overrated or not, he's my biggest influence and the reason I even wanted to play drums.

Of course there are better drummers, but there are none that I'd rather listen to.

Couldnt have said it any better man

[Found My Wings]

I have read every post in this thread. It has taken me a few days I will say!
It has done nothing but make me really appreciate the man. As well as the people here.

The knowledge you guys have on this man (and many others that I will dive into) is incredible! You share it so openly too, tips and tricks to get your kit ready special exercises, I love it!

What a great place!

John Bonham you are certainly not forgotten.

[Funky Crêpe]

Does anyone else think that the lick....well musical phrase at 3:31 onwards...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed5YvFkcR7g

resembles elvin's at 5:00 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHulrp03qnk

it's just kind of funny how so many of bonham's phrases can be related to the jazz greats, truely exceptonal!

[thelewmonster]

Easily one of the worlds most influencial drummers to this day, here is a blog entry i wrote on the shuffle he plays in Fool in the Rain, let me know what you think

http://rock-drumming.wonderhowto.com...r-all-0114496/

[Ian Williams]

A quote from John Bonham / Moby Dick:

"When I listen to drummers I like to be able to say "Oh! I haven't heard that before." Being yourself is so much better than sounding like anyone else. Ginger Baker's thing is that he is himself. So it's no good trying to do what he does."

[Deathtoll]

I love what Gavin Harrison said when he was talking about unique drummers, "I don't like specific sounds of drum recording as for the drummer himself, for example, John Bonham sounds the way he does because of the way he plays, if someone where to play his kit in a recording no one would be able to recognize it because its not John himself playing it."

[Glow Girl]

John Bonham was brilliant. He had such a power and a presence. I don't think anyone can play like Bonham. Some people say he's overrated. Fine. But there will never be anyone who can play like Bonham. He was unique.

Oh, and happy birthday, Bonzo.

[scorch whammin]

Great posts in this thread....Bonzo certainly hasn't been forgotten....RIP and happy birthday Bonzo!

[Ian Williams]

Not at all! you are being sincere. There is something "unsual" on those Giant Beats...that sound...that feel. I appreciate your knowledge shared.

Originally Posted by Strangelove

Would it be disrespectful to admit that I love his cymbals more than his playing? The shimmer of those white label Giant Beats is what got me interested in Paistes to begin with. Immigrant Song is a classic Giant Beat 18" Multi crash sound and Stairway - lord, that beautiful silvery ping and wash of that 24" Ride..............................you guys that worship Tony's ride have no idea what Bonzo's ride does for us rockers, lol.

[Found My Wings]

Happy Birthday John you are missed by many.

I purchased online the John Bonham book A Thunder of Drums and it had been lost in the mail system for a while now and lo and behold if the mailman din't come in TODAY with the book, of all days!

That has to be a sign of something!!!

[thebard]

A story about the man himself :

Many years ago, around 1970 ish, a fellow drummer friend of mine decided to do a marathon drum playing session for charity. There was only him and his helpers. It was set up in a room at Stourbridge Cricket Club ( West Midlands UK ) and was expected to last a few days. He used his kit and borrowed mine as well so as to have plenty of variety.

One of our close friends was Martin Lickert who at the time was chauffeur to Ringo Star. Martin arranged to bring John Bonham to visit us during the event to give support.

He duly came and stayed a couple of hours, firstly talking drums then sat behind our improvised double kit and while my friend just played the ride to keep his marathon going, John treated us to his hands only section of Moby Dick, answered questions and showed us anything we wanted to know.

I stood right behind his right shoulder while he played my kit talking to him as he played. Later we sat and had a pint, just one !

He talked drummer to drummer, a real nice, down to earth man, and I was very privileged that day, although I didn’t really know it at the time. All I have left of that kit is a cymbal and somewhere a press cutting of the event.

People knock him sometimes and say he wasn’t a nice person. I met him and he was just one of the lads, a genuine guy who was quite willing to come and support us mortals, to play and talk drums.