John Bonham

[wod8o5]

Is it just me or did Jason have a SON named Jazz?

[Safetyhelmetkid]

Originally Posted by wod8o5

Is it just me or did Jason have a SON named Jazz?

she was definitely a girl...besides, jazz is a little feminine, no?

[wod8o5]

Jason Bonham is the Son of legendary Led Zeppelin drummer, John Bonham. Jason first began playing drums at the age of 4. His first solo album, “The Disregard of Timekeeping,” appeared in 1989 and the single "Wait for You" was a major success. Bonham drummed for Paul Rodgers on the Grammy winning “Muddy Water Blues: A Tribute to Muddy Waters” project. A year later, with Slash and Paul Rodgers, he appeared at Woodstock II in 1994, followed by a stint with “Motherload” on their “Peace 4 Me” album. At the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Jason represented his father when Led Zeppelin was inducted during 1996. Bonham soon put together another solo project which culminated in the “In The Name of the Father: The ZepSet,” featuring the songs of Led Zeppelin. Proceeds from the album went to charity. The album followed up with “When You See the Sun.” Bonham drummed for Healing Sixes in 2000 and appeared in the film Rock Star, starring Mark Wahlberg. Following an album and tour with Debbie Bonham, younger sister of John Bonham, Jason was invited to drum for hard rock group, UFO. Bonham married Jan Charteris In May, 1990 and had a son named Jazz Bonham.

[gmrakich]

Originally Posted by MunsieMan

In my opion one of the greatest drummers of all time, Fool In The Rain, When The Levee Breaks, Poor Tom all great grooves. Moby Dick...out of this world and Good Times Bad Times with all the triplets and his lightning fast foot. And D'yer Maker the very first Zeppelin song i could play. One thing i loved about John Bonham is that all his drums seem to fit in the song. Any other comments on John Bonham


p.s. My first post :)

I would of loved to see JB's interpretation of RUSH songs. His drum sound was as much a signature of LZ as Plant's voice. I wonder what Distant Early Warnung would sound like with the JB touch. Both NP and JB are influenced by great jazz drumming, but they each went to opposite ends of the spectrum with their own developed style. Are there any Bonham clones out there that could put a Bonham type feel to a RUSH song. If so, I think it would be awesome.

What would Neil do with Matchbox by the Beatles??

[dawg]

i don't think they could trade spots because bonham ( to me anyway) played a little behind the beat where neil is more metronomic. that and the double bass aspect which i'm sure bonham could learn,if he didn't already know,would sound different.i think it boils down to a diffence of time feel.

Neil WAS a perfect time keeper, he learned how to play drums around the Test for Echo years when his instructor told him how most of drumming was done "in the air" in circles and the drum hit was at the end of a circular stroke. This was to trick him into changing his timing up a bit so he wouldn't sound so robotic.

Bonham fooled around with the time by being a bit later than expected giving you a latent sexy feel (kind of like sex), waiting in anticipation for the beat made the music exotic and alluring.

I don't think you could really have each other play the others stuff in the same stylee and patton, nor would you want to introduce someone like Stewart Copeland in that experiment either.

The results would be dissapointing in my opinion.

Guys, help me out please....

I've searched on this forum and I'm looking to see if there is an actual transcript of Bonzo's intro to Rock & Roll??

Can anyone help? Thanks...

I need it to resolve an "issue" with our 'sit-in' bass player....thanks

[CooManChu]

Hi fussion - here's is my interpretation of it. There are a few different opinions on this (as you know), but I think this is super close to - maybe exactly - what he plays.

Playing it as it is written below at the proper volume, up to tempo, and with the proper expression and such, it comes as close to the original as anything I've heard. If you play it as below and record it, play it back and compare it to the recording on Zeppelin IV, I think you'll be very happy with the comparison.



In addition to the notes being pretty correct, I also would say as this is written, it is (imo) how the intro is counted by Bonham and the band. Very simply, it's a four bar intro (in 4/4 time), that comes in on the upbeat of 3 in the first measure - nothing more, nothing less.

What's the "issue" with the bass player (just curious)?

In case the JPG is a little messy to read/print off, here it is as a PDF:

Sorry to sound like a putz, ....but.....what is ....."comes in on the upbeat of 3?"

[CooManChu]

Originally Posted by fusssion

Sorry to sound like a putz, ....but.....what is ....."comes in on the upbeat of 3?"

If you count 8th notes in time as "1-and 2-and 3-and 4-and", the downbeats are the numbers (when you say "1", "2", "3", "4"); the upbeats are when you say "and".

Alot of people count this way. Then they might count 16th notes in time as "1-e-and-uh 2-e-and-uh" etc.

It that example above, the intro phrase starts on the upbeat of 3 (or the "and" of 3). The first accented downbeat is on "1" of the second mesure of the phrase. Of course, when you're playing, you're not counting "1-e-and-uh, 2-and 3-and, 4-e-and-uh" necessarily, but while you're working something out, it might help to know where it falls with respect to time, placement in the phrase (which measure), etc. If for no other reason, it gives you some info to talk about if you need to relay info to the band (especially if the "you'll just hear it" method of communication isn't working).

More info than you wanted:

Like if I were playing this and the bass playing didn't hit with me right on "1" when I finished the intro - because this intro phrase is deceptive (it tricks your ear a little at first), I might hand him/her the phrase written out so he/she could check it out while I play it and get comfortable with it. If the bassists can accept a verbal rundown with no paper (which would be excellent), then I might just say something like "OK, I got a four bar intro. I'm going to count off and be coming in on the upbeat (or and) of 3 before bar 2 of the phrase. If your ear is tricking you on when to come in, just count 4 bars of time with me while I'm playing and come in."

I'd probably count the tune off until the bass player and the band were comfortable. It could be short, just 1-2-3 and then you're in on the upbeat.

This is off topic a little, but for me, I wish everyone could communicate a little better sometimes. It's hard to pick up things from people when they can't articulate what they mean - especially if your a drummer and they're talking about time or rhythm or something. As drummers, I think most of the time, we have pretty specific language about what things mean and when someone (like maybe a bass player) asks me to play a triplet before a break and what they actually mean is three quarter notes in a row, it's kinda a bummer - especially if you're playing a gig and haven't rehearsed.

Being able to talk a tune down in musical terms so everyone can understand what's going on before the tune starts isn't a trivial skill (imo), but one to hone - it just makes things alot easier.

Originally Posted by CooManChu

If you count 8th notes in time as "1-and 2-and 3-and 4-and", the downbeats are the numbers (when you say "1", "2", "3", "4"); the upbeats are when you say "and".

Alot of people count this way. Then they might count 16th notes in time as "1-e-and-uh 2-e-and-uh" etc.

It that example above, the intro phrase starts on the upbeat of 3 (or the "and" of 3).

Ok,...so the first snare hit is AND 3 and 4 .....or is it.....AND 4 and 1 ....

neither one counts right for me...I just can't count that?! I cant' hear it! I CAN PLAY IT....but I can't count it.....story of my freakin' life!

[CooManChu]

Originally Posted by fusssion

Ok,...so the first snare hit is AND 3 and 4 .....or is it.....AND 4 and 1 ....

neither one counts right for me...I just can't count that?! I cant' hear it! I CAN PLAY IT....but I can't count it.....story of my freakin' life!

I'd just count (in time): "1 2 3". Then you're in immediately.

Example: You could say, in time: 1 2 3, but think: 1-and 2-and- 3-play - the "play" is where you start playing - the "and of 3". Does that help?

[CooManChu]

Hi again fusssion - if that explanation above doesn't clear up the counting, maybe the below jpg of the first two bars will:

[ledzepjb]

Originally Posted by Big_Drummer

i respect bonham but i didnt like moby dick solo i didtn like anything.

I respect your opinion, but watch what you say. That solo, live or studio, is one of the best ever played and recorded in the history of drumming.

Originally Posted by CooManChu

Hi again fusssion - if that explanation above doesn't clear up the counting, maybe the below jpg of the first two bars will:

I've tried counting this every which way and I can't end on the right time when the band comes in.......I'll look at the above and go again.

btw, I found out that my bass player was NOT listening to the original recording (he was listening to a freinds band do the tune) ....so that's why he was off !!! Jeeeezzz....go figure eh?? He's on the right track now....NO PUN! :)

[NUTHA JASON]

how's this?

rock 'n roll intro...

[CooManChu]

Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON

how's this?

rock 'n roll intro...

Very cool - That's pretty much what I come up with too. Only thing I hear differently is that I don't think Bonham articulates every 8th on the HH during that intro. I can hear the HH breathing a little here and there (basically by listening real close with headphones on). I think I can here where stick articulations on the HH are not present in the phrase.

I know that sounds totally weird that someone would even be that picky about it, but that's one of the small spices I think he uses to get the particular character in the line that he does. At least when I play the entire phrase with locked hands (both hands articulating all the 8ths), it doesn't sound quite right. When I add space as I think I'm hearing in the recording, it sounds extremely close to the original.

It's not really any harder to play it locked hands or leave a little space here or there, so probably whatever way someone prefers is the best anyway.

BTW, I'm totally not trying to start any arguments or anything - just explaining why I'm coming up with a little different interpretation that Nutha.

[NUTHA JASON]

no i'm with you on this one. bonzo was a fan of sloppy when needed...he was a fan of the moon.

besides, when you are playing 15'' sound edge hihats, partly open, then the white sound is enormous and so the 'tap' strokes would sustain into each other. its certainly easier to lock the hands on this one.

j

Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON

how's this?

rock 'n roll intro...

OK!! For me, this one is easier to read, ...no offense Chu....however,...I don't hear 4 ghost notes before the accents,...I'm only hearing 3....but....that's it no doubt...

Thanks Jason

[CooManChu]

Originally Posted by fusssion

OK!! For me, this one is easier to read, ...no offense Chu....however,...I don't hear 4 ghost notes before the accents,...I'm only hearing 3....but....that's it no doubt...

Thanks Jason

Cool - glad you got one way or another.

[Thunderfoot]

Bonham was a genius, his tuning technique his creative choice of what to play and what not to play and above all his natural 'swing'. No one comes close in all 3 areas of drum mastery. Ian Paice, Ginger Baker and Stuart Copeland are amazing, but Bonzo is out of this world. The outtake tracks of Bonham's playing in the 1978 sessions are absolutely authentic. Are there any other 'bootlegs' where the authenticity is dubious...?
Let me know....a drummer from Sussex, UK

[Tubs player]

John is a legend in my book, and the triplets that he does are fun to do too

[Rockfang]

Feel free to delete this post. I had a question, but found the answer. Sorry.

[drummer wannabe]

If Bonzo was still alive he'd be 59 years old today. RIP.

[stasz]

Man I just drummed along to Achilles' Last Stand on my iPod... that song is intense. I forgot to pace myself and I was getting worn out around the third 5/4 section. Some pretty sick fills on that track.

[caprisun3484]

Originally Posted by Thunderfoot

Bonham was a genius, his tuning technique his creative choice of what to play and what not to play and above all his natural 'swing'. No one comes close in all 3 areas of drum mastery. Ian Paice, Ginger Baker and Stuart Copeland are amazing, but Bonzo is out of this world. The outtake tracks of Bonham's playing in the 1978 sessions are absolutely authentic. Are there any other 'bootlegs' where the authenticity is dubious...?
Let me know....a drummer from Sussex, UK

what Bootleg you speaking about

[mikei]

I was recently watching Mike Portnoy's In Constant Motion DVD (which is really good) and he has a segment where he plays in numerous tribute bands.

His tribute band plays Moby Dick. Immediately after Mike's performance, I watch the Zep version on DVD.

While Mike does a good job of imitating Bonzo to a point, Bonzo was just in a completely different class. I was really shocked by this.

It was clear that Mike doesn't nearly have the groove, speed or chops that Bonzo had. His triplets were played much, much slower.

I am not writing this to bash Mike, as I am a huge fan of his and own all of DT DVDs and CDs. But, it is surprising to see just HOW good Bonzo was, even judging by today's standards.

[Goody602]

I think anytime someone plays a tribute to one of the greats, as good as it may be, it will always bring you back to the original. You can't play Bonham better than Bonham, just like you can't play Buddy better than Buddy, Hendrix, Jaco, Coltrane, etc. etc. Imitators couldn't exist without the originals.

Now I haven't seen the Portnoy DVD, and I have no trouble believing the comment about groove as I find Portnoy's playing to be rather stiff and lacking in feel, but the triplet speed? Really? Even with the double bass drums? I've seen Portnoy go pretty fast on those things. Or was he attempting to play it the real way with just one? That I could believe, because he seems to do plenty of things with two feet that could easily be done with one.

[mikei]

Originally Posted by Goody602

I think anytime someone plays a tribute to one of the greats, as good as it may be, it will always bring you back to the original. You can't play Bonham better than Bonham, just like you can't play Buddy better than Buddy, Hendrix, Jaco, Coltrane, etc. etc. Imitators couldn't exist without the originals.

Now I haven't seen the Portnoy DVD, and I have no trouble believing the comment about groove as I find Portnoy's playing to be rather stiff and lacking in feel, but the triplet speed? Really? Even with the double bass drums? I've seen Portnoy go pretty fast on those things. Or was he attempting to play it the real way with just one? That I could believe, because he seems to do plenty of things with two feet that could easily be done with one.

I am referring to the rack tom, floor tom, bass drum triplet.

He played with a single kick.

Again it was really, really good. Bonham was just faster, cleaner, better with more groove.

I love Mike. One of my top 5 drummers.

I just didn't really realize just how good Bonham was I guess.

[NUTHA JASON]

here's a great vid lesson of jack bennett teaching fool in the rain.

http://www.icanplaydrums.com/bigdrum_jan1_2006.htm

check out some of his other lessons too

j

[JJJ]

Hope you all had a chance to pick up the new Traps magazine with Bonham on the cover. I'm always impressed with his ergonomics of the set and tell my students to study how little motion he put into playing. Everything from pretty much wrist movements and slight arm motion. All drums set up above waist level, good positioning of snare and toms, there's still so much to learn from him. What a great sound with minimal effort. He even sat rather low for the day. Check out the mag or go to the website.

www.trapsmagazine.com

[CooManChu]

Hi - this isn't really directly Bonham related, but this forum is a friendly spot and I thought someone here might have some info I'm looking for.

I've always liked the Zeppelin II inner gatefold and thought it would make an excellent poster to put up in a person's practice space. Does anyone happen to know if one is available anywhere or ever was?

I've thought about scanning the album and piecing it together, enlarging it, and taking it to Kinko's to be color-laser-printed, but I don't think it will look as cool and crisp as a professionally done job.

Thanks.

PS: Attached is a small digital image I found of the gatefold.

[bonzolead]

Originally Posted by JJJ

Hope you all had a chance to pick up the new Traps magazine with Bonham on the cover. I'm always impressed with his ergonomics of the set and tell my students to study how little motion he put into playing. Everything from pretty much wrist movements and slight arm motion. All drums set up above waist level, good positioning of snare and toms, there's still so much to learn from him. What a great sound with minimal effort. He even sat rather low for the day. Check out the mag or go to the website.

www.trapsmagazine.com

Don't. tell your students to look at the danish TV Led Zeppelin performances that's when Bonham first starting out and he looks like he's trying to go through the drum heads and the Fisher-Price(single-brased)cymbal stands are just rocking back & forth.but if you look at The Song Remains The Same you can tell he getting the volume & power without totally slamming the kit which reminds me I can't. wait until they re-release The Song Remains The Same in Nov.07 it's gonna have all the songs from Madison Square Garden
plus outakes and all the other goodies you would expect from a Zeppelin re-release.everybody get your Christmas list ready.

Keep Swatting,
Bonzolead

[maniac-drummer]

Originally Posted by bonzolead

Don't. tell your students to look at the danish TV Led Zeppelin performances that's when Bonham first starting out and he looks like he's trying to go through the drum heads and the Fisher-Price(single-brased)cymbal stands are just rocking back & forth.but if you look at The Song Remains The Same you can tell he getting the volume & power without totally slamming the kit which reminds me I can't. wait until they re-release The Song Remains The Same in Nov.07 it's gonna have all the songs from Madison Square Garden
plus outakes and all the other goodies you would expect from a Zeppelin re-release.everybody get your Christmas list ready.

Keep Swatting,
Bonzolead

i have to admit john was was a pretty good drummer. thats all i have to say!

pinky x

[Creothcean]

John Bonham is my drumming hero. He's so fast and so powerful, the power he gets on Moby Dick with his bare hands I can't even get by using sticks!

And Good Times Bad Times with the triplets and how he USES A SINGLE BASS PEDAL is insane, I don't think my right foot will ever be that fast. Plus the fact that he plays those triplets that fast, but also perfectly controlled, in time, and at the right volume, its incredible.


And munsieman, you do know that John Bonham hated playing D'yer Maker, right? It was his least favorite song to drum to.


only the good die young........

[morristyson]

Bonzo's signature "Levee" sound is still an influence. If you get a chance, listen to "Ball Peen Hammer" off of Joe Bonamassa's new album. It's played by Anton Fig I think. The crash is not quite the same, but the hat, snare, and kick are so similar, I thought they were samples from "Levee".

[drummer wannabe]

A little clarification here... I read somewhere on a website that in addition to the green sparkle kit he used in the 1972 Austrailia tour, there were two other green sparkle drumsets he used, i.e the one he used on LZ III was a different one, the one for LZ IV was another one, and Houses of the Holy and Physical Grafitti was a third one. Is that true? Or did he use just the ONE green sparkle kit, the one we all know and love? Here's the info I found:

Bonham used three different ludwig green sparkle set on Led Zeppelin III, IV, Houses of the Holy, and Physical Graffiti. You can see him playing one of them on the "Immigrant Song" on the Led Zeppelin DVD. Pat Bonham has one of the kits that is suppose to be at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.

And the site where it came from.
http://www.kellyindustries.com/drums/john_bonham.html

[Ludface]

heyy guys i got a question for and zeppelin fanatic. probably one of my favorite songs is good times bad times just for the intense drumming, but ive never found or heard a live version, did they play this live and are there any live recordings?? if so let me know

Thanks

[CooManChu]

Originally Posted by Ludface

heyy guys i got a question for and zeppelin fanatic. probably one of my favorite songs is good times bad times just for the intense drumming, but ive never found or heard a live version, did they play this live and are there any live recordings?? if so let me know

Thanks

According to Dr. MustardPie, there are a couple recordings of GTBT in circulation.

Sources for Rare Performances of LZ Songs:
Good Times Bad Times
AUD 1970.09.04 Inglewood, LA Forum - In Communication Breakdown medley. Best source.
AUD 1971.09.23 Tokyo, Budokan Hall - In Whole Lotta Love medley.

I have the LA forum recording someplace on a CD and will post it later as an attachment (if I can find it and if it is permitted in this forum).

From what I remember listening back to it months ago, the sound quality is not bad to crappy and the tempo is clipping along pretty well - faster than the studio version. Bonham is playing a pretty basic, sturdy, arena version of the studio groove (none of the triplet and 16th note bass drum embellishments).

Listening to old shows, I've noticed alot of the studio stuff is streamlined and simplified when it's played in a large arena (or at quicker tempos than the studio version). So, that kind of embellishment on Zep I's GTBT, played live even at a slower tempo, might have even been ditched by Bonham if he were playing a 3+ hour show at maximum volume and intensity in a large area.

Here's alot of VERY nice info about Zep concerts, recordings, rare performances and such:

http://www.royal-orleans.com/phpBB/v...ic.php?t=18827

I was getting into this stuff alot a while back, but it's very addicting. I had to stop completely because it was leaving no time to actually play drums. However, I collected a decent amount of good material beforehand and still enjoy peeking at it from time to time.

Some of the video stuff is really cool. Foreign performances, interviews - even a clip of Page playing in a skiffle band at 15 years old on a British talent program. He said he wanted to be a chemist or engineer or something like that when asked about his future.

Another interesting video clip has the pre-Zeppelin Yardbirds (with Page) playing Dazed and Confused - no Plant, no Bonham, no Jones. The singer doesn't quite make the grade at all when compared to Plant's treatment of the tune, but the drummer plays alot of the things we hear as Bonham-esque on this tune. I mean, when you hear that tune today played by Zep and the fills on it and such, you pretty much say, "Yep, that's Bonham. That's Bonham's tune." But when you consider the fact that a guy was already playing that tune before Bonham with very similar kicks and fills and such, I think you have to conclude that Bonham was either instructed or took it upon himself to play the tune close to the "original" drummer's take on it. Of course, he didn't play it exactly as the Yardbirds' drummer did, but still he played it with an informed knowledge of the other guy's playing at least. I find this fact kinda interesting and cool too...

[drum.lad]

if it werent for bonham none of us would be playing like we do today he changed everything and i love him for it