John Bonham

[murphinelli]

That would be a cool trio. They'd probably be playing jazz today...Many of the old time rock drummers slide on into jazz. I think they always liked it, but were making more money in the rock arena. Bruford, Charlie Watts, Steve Smith, Simon Phillips, Bonzo? Well Stanton Moore is sort of a Bonzoish jazz dude 'eh?

Well Bonzo has a special place in my heart. I was a big fan ever since I was a kid. Used to have all my walls covered in zeppelin posters. I had a lifesize one of Robert Plant! Used to be in the Led Zeppelin fan club. This is before the Internet & computers. I used to have Zeppelin pen pals that I would write letters to (imagine that) in Australia and England. All girls of course.

[rendezvous_drummer]

gonnnaa get me on of those ching wings!!

[Mook]

It's called a Ching Ring by the way.

[NUTHA JASON]

yeah ching wings sound like something you can buy at a chinese take away.

j

[Goody602]

I got a ching-ring about a year ago when buying a bunch of add-ons for my kit. It's not a genuine ching-ring but it's the same instrument, essentially. The thing about it is, I really have to STOMP on the hi-hat to get a good jingle sound out of it, and I always keep my hi-hats open by at least 1 1/2 inches. To get the sound and volume Bonham gets on any live 'Moby Dick' solo gets tiring in about 2 minutes. Maybe his had more jingles on it or was manufactured a lot better, but regardless, it's not nearly as easy as I thought to get that consistent jingle sound for an extended period of time.

[murphinelli]

Originally Posted by Goody602

I got a ching-ring about a year ago when buying a bunch of add-ons for my kit. It's not a genuine ching-ring but it's the same instrument, essentially. The thing about it is, I really have to STOMP on the hi-hat to get a good jingle sound out of it, and I always keep my hi-hats open by at least 1 1/2 inches. To get the sound and volume Bonham gets on any live 'Moby Dick' solo gets tiring in about 2 minutes. Maybe his had more jingles on it or was manufactured a lot better, but regardless, it's not nearly as easy as I thought to get that consistent jingle sound for an extended period of time.

That was my original question on this ching-a-ling-a-ding. Just by looking at it (the pictures that Nutha posted)...The authentic hi-hat tamborine design looks like it will "ching" freely...whereas the ching-ding-thing looks like the poor mans version of the same...By the way it is designed to sit on the hit hat, it is stifled. And you've confirmed it for me...Thanks for the info.

Originally Posted by murphinelli

Jaco Pastorius. Bass player for Weather Report that died way too early. One of the most influential Bass players ever. If there is a Bass player forum there is a Jaco page that has fans as strong as Bonzo fans here.

'Continuum' and 'Portrait of Tracy' still send shivers down my spine literally every time I hear them. One day I will take up the bass.

[Goody602]

That was my original question on this ching-a-ling-a-ding. Just by looking at it (the pictures that Nutha posted)...The authentic hi-hat tamborine design looks like it will "ching" freely...whereas the ching-ding-thing looks like the poor mans version of the same...By the way it is designed to sit on the hit hat, it is stifled. And you've confirmed it for me...Thanks for the info.

Mine looks almost exactly like the first, smaller picture that Nutha put up that says "Bonzo's version." I'ts definitely not designed to sit right on the hi-hat. What I meant is that if you look at pictures of Bonham's it looks like it has more jingles than the modern version. Still though, it's not as easy to get a great sound out of it as I originally thought, you really have to stomp on it to hear it.

[murphinelli]

Originally Posted by Goody602

Mine looks almost exactly like the first, smaller picture that Nutha put up that says "Bonzo's version." I'ts definitely not designed to sit right on the hi-hat. What I meant is that if you look at pictures of Bonham's it looks like it has more jingles than the modern version. Still though, it's not as easy to get a great sound out of it as I originally thought, you really have to stomp on it to hear it.

Ahh. Misunderstood your first post. Well in the end, Bonham had a mic on his, correct? So, foot stomping was not necessary. Anyways, I'm gonna get one of the Bonham looking original ones myself at some point soon.

Rock on bro!

[themac5150]

Originally Posted by Goody602

Mine looks almost exactly like the first, smaller picture that Nutha put up that says "Bonzo's version." I'ts definitely not designed to sit right on the hi-hat. What I meant is that if you look at pictures of Bonham's it looks like it has more jingles than the modern version. Still though, it's not as easy to get a great sound out of it as I originally thought, you really have to stomp on it to hear it.

Do you put yours on just like the picture? I put mine on upside down in comparison to the pic, and it works great. Also, do you have the brass or nickel version, I read somewhere that the nickel version is more subdued than the brass. If you install it like I do and you have the brass, I don't know what to say, maybe it sounds better down range than it does sitting next to it....

[Goody602]

Do you put yours on just like the picture? I put mine on upside down in comparison to the pic, and it works great. Also, do you have the brass or nickel version, I read somewhere that the nickel version is more subdued than the brass. If you install it like I do and you have the brass, I don't know what to say, maybe it sounds better down range than it does sitting next to it....

Yeah, I think I have the nickel one, and I think I tried it upside down too and didn't notice too much of a difference. But now that you mention it I'm gonna try it again. Thanks for the tip.

[spoonracings2k]

zep's biggest hits in their earliest years were rips/re-workings of old songs. whole lotta love..... willie dixon. dazed and confused was also a re-worked song from page's yardbird days, i think the song was originally titled i'm confused" or something like that. he also had his whole violin bow routine in those days as well. as for bonzo's drug use..... according to richard cole's biography (zeppelin tour manager) EVERYONE in the band at least dabbled in cocaine..... but page was the only one who used heroin. bonzo's use was erratic, but steady, but as we all know alcohol was his main problem.

Originally Posted by spoonracings2k

zep's biggest hits in their earliest years were rips/re-workings of old songs. whole lotta love..... willie dixon. dazed and confused was also a re-worked song from page's yardbird days, i think the song was originally titled i'm confused" or something like that. he also had his whole violin bow routine in those days as well. as for bonzo's drug use..... according to richard cole's biography (zeppelin tour manager) EVERYONE in the band at least dabbled in cocaine..... but page was the only one who used heroin. bonzo's use was erratic, but steady, but as we all know alcohol was his main problem.

Hello spoon. Hey, wouldn't it be better to add facts about the "musical" influence of Bonzo, rather than what "substances" were influencing him? His "body of work" is what's important. Not what was working on his body. Thanks....Play On!

[rendezvous_drummer]

Originally Posted by Mook

It's called a Ching Ring by the way.

Right....i stand corrected.

[pdp 9091]

Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON

i own two bonham biographys and have read several zep ones plus numerous articles and interviews and there is no mention of heroine.

j

i read Stairway to Heaven (which was an awesome zep bio by the way) and richard cole - zeppelin tour manager and author of the book- never said bonzo was into herion. The herion was mostly himself (cole), page and plant. as a matter of fact they never even injected it....they snorted it. Bonzo was the big drinker. I mean come on. 40 somethin shots of vodka within a matter of hours. Hes not invincible. its sad that he passed away so early. U could only imagine ''what if"

[Beyer]

John Bonham is definitely one of the greatest there ever was and he should be recognized for his songs pretty much like the ones that previous replies have listed: Moby Dick, When the Levee Breaks...and so on. Absolutely untouchable when it comes to speed and style.

There are a number of educational DVD's out there that have drummers explaining other pro-drummers licks.

I'd like to see one made for Bonzo's playing.

[johnhavart]

BTW about Bonzo's playing on Bad times good times, do you know if :

_when he played the triplets on bass drum, did he keep eights notes steady on his hit-hat ? stead
_a live version exists ?

[Goody602]

Yeah he's pedaling 8ths on his hi-hat and also playing 8ths on a cowbell as the first note of the triplet with the stuttering bass drum notes in between.

There is no official live release of 'Good Times Bad Times.' From the bootleg sites that I've looked at, it does appear that they played if a very few times live in early '69 before they had any Zep II material to play, but those boots are extremely rare and probably not very good sound quality.

I know...I'd kill to hear a live version of Good Times from a young Zeppelin too. Bonzo would be out of his mind in that performance.

[johnhavart]

Originally Posted by Goody602

Yeah he's pedaling 8ths on his hi-hat and also playing 8ths on a cowbell as the first note of the triplet with the stuttering bass drum notes in between.

There is no official live release of 'Good Times Bad Times.' From the bootleg sites that I've looked at, it does appear that they played if a very few times live in early '69 before they had any Zep II material to play, but those boots are extremely rare and probably not very good sound quality.

Many thanks for your answer.

about Hi-hat, that's well what I hear !

I am very curious how Bonzo used to play it live in the specific circumstances you mentionned.

[spoonracings2k]

i read that they didnt really enjoy playing good times bad times so yeah, it would probably be very hard to find a bootleg, much less one of decent quality. if anyone does, post it

[johnhavart]

Originally Posted by spoonracings2k

i read that they didnt really enjoy playing good times bad times so yeah, it would probably be very hard to find a bootleg, much less one of decent quality. if anyone does, post it

Yes it would be great to find a live version !
PS: It took me a long time to be able to to play the triplets part with the bass drum but now I have to add the hit hat...It's true that it generates some "colours" with the cow bell.

I just placed an order for Mike Portnoy's tribute to Bonzo called "Hammer of the Gods" on DVD.

He plays a (prototype) amber acrylic tama mirage kit.

[CooManChu]

Originally Posted by johnhavart

Yes it would be great to find a live version !
PS: It took me a long time to be able to to play the triplets part with the bass drum but now I have to add the hit hat...It's true that it generates some "colours" with the cow bell.

According to Dr. MustardPie on the Presence site, there are two known live recordings of Good Times Bad Times - both audience sourced:

Good Times Bad Times
AUD 1970.09.04 Inglewood, LA Forum - In Communication Breakdown medley. Best source.
AUD 1971.09.23 Tokyo, Budokan Hall - In Whole Lotta Love medley.

I have the LA forum concert. This live version's tempo is a good measure brighter than on the original album and I think because of that and the fact that all that more embellished playing he does in the studio probably doesn't even come off in an arena, he opts for more streamlined, driving playing.

Check out some of the Zep sites (Presence Server, Traders Den) and you should be able to download the torrent. Look for the Zep title "On Blueberry Hill". That's a widely used name for the show since they played "On Blueberry Hill" that day. You'll probably find alot of other stuff that you'll want too. It's addicting. :)

If that's a hassle, I could burn a CD of the show and snail mail it to you (if you don't mind PayPal-ing me for the postage and disc(s) - not to be cheap, but it adds up).

I'm working on playing the studio version too - nowhere near up to tempo yet, but it's progressing. I took the tabs that were out there on the net and added the little things I hear on the recording and I think I have a pretty close paper representation of what he's playing on the track. So far, I've only done the intro and the first verse, though.

The main thing I added in my transcription was his bell pattern variations. He's not just pinging 8ths on the bell - he plays a much more alive, breathing bell. Just because I like Art so much, I see Bonham's verse groove almost like an Art Blakey type thing with some additional bass drum action. In my opinion, it's also not very far at all from Bernard Purdie's 4 bar drum break in Aretha Franklin's "Rock Steady" if you break it down. I practice the two together (Good Times verse groove and Rock Steady drum break) and sometimes I get tongue tied and go into a piece of one while playing the other just because they feel so closely related to me - like cousins or something.

Coo

[NUTHA JASON]

GOOD TIMES BAD TIMES PRIMER.

i've heard some versions of this...often missing various elements. the hihat must be constant 8ths but the cowbell has 16ths in the beats leading up to the tom figure in each measure. if you listen to the second attachment i lowered the other instruments in the mix to make the C-bell stand out and i slowed it right down in the end to show how the bell weaves in and out with the bass drum just before the hitom and lowtom figure.
the first attachment is a little sketchy without the bass and guitar to give it feeling but i got those triplets in there mostly right. in this version the cowbell 16ths are over powered by the bassdrum unfortunately but i swear they are there...hence the second version.

(please forgive the recording it was direct from roland to laptop)

[johnhavart]

Thanks Nutha, this is very useful !

[CooManChu]

I agree with Jason about the bell weaving in with the bass. The audio example is a nice touch too.

Here's a visual representation of what I hear. I think it pretty much agrees with what Jason put together above:

[CooManChu]

Hi again,

Here's an MP3 from the LA show mentioned above. The band cuts into Good Times from Communication Breakdown about half way through the track.

Due to the filesize upload limit, I couldn't include the whole track. I just included the Good Times part of the medley.

Coo

[Goody602]

Well I'll be damned, I always thought Good Times was just straight eights on the cowbell but upon listening to it even louder that usual I can hear the extra cowbell notes before the tom hits.

Many thanks to CooManChu and Nutha for posting that audio, great stuff. I think it's always cool when you find out there's a little extra wrinkle to something you thought you had figured out cold. I've been trying to get that Blueberry Hill boot because I've heard it's one of the better quality ones in circulation, but I always have problems downloading it. One of these days...

[ILikeMacs]

Bonham was the king man. Who on earth would play the drums that loud with bare hands with such a feel and not care that his hands were busted up.

what he played was simple and for the song, it worked, end of story. he inspired so many people to play, he can truly be called once of the greats

[NUTHA JASON]

hey coo, thanks for the clip. drums are pretty low there but boy does JPjones stand out. he is such a monster bassist.

j

[CooManChu]

Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON

hey coo, thanks for the clip. drums are pretty low there but boy does JPjones stand out. he is such a monster bassist.

j

:) anytime - JP rocks - definitely.

Some of these boots I have are really high quality - almost studio. This one isn't too bad, but the drums are a little low like you said. I think I have a couple where all you can hear is drums - that's OK by me.

I just starting getting into the recordings of these shows this year and it got kinda out of control for a while. I've tamed down now and am looking for higher quality sound instead of grabbing everything I can (which I'm still sort of doing, but at little more reasonable pace so that my wife can use the DSL connection from time to time).

[johnhavart]

Originally Posted by CooManChu

Hi again,

Here's an MP3 from the LA show mentioned above.

Coo

Quite interesting and historical ! But one of Bonzo's trademark seems to have vanished. Where are the bass drum triplets here ?

Never mind ! when you listen to Zeppelin discography, you realise the genius of Bonham as a drummer influenced by jazz, blues and even soul.

[NUTHA JASON]

i agree.at the moment i'm trying to learn jazz. totally new to me because i have dedicated myself to pop, funk and rock drums. so to really lock the ostinato in place i take a drum magazine, put it on my snare, put on 'how many more times' from zep1 and play my right hand ride and feet while flipping the pages and reading articles with my left. when the track gets to the breakdown part i just hit the repeat button and do it all again for about 20 minutes a day. john had a great swing.

ps: RHYTHM magazine interviews jason bonham this month about his dad. very cool article.

[johnhavart]

Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON

i take a drum magazine, put it on my snare, put on 'how many more times' from zep1 and play my right hand ride and feet while flipping the pages and reading articles with my left.

Funny cause I do exactly the same with this song !

[pcmckay]

Originally Posted by johnhavart

Quite interesting and historical ! But one of Bonzo's trademark seems to have vanished. Where are the bass drum triplets here ?

Never mind ! when you listen to Zeppelin discography, you realise the genius of Bonham as a drummer influenced by jazz, blues and even soul.

As John Paul Jones once said in an interview something to the effect that he was always more impressed with the little things that Bonzo would do rather than the monster triplets and the big thunderous drum fills.

[anthony]

Zeppelin was not hated by the record buying public, but they were not liked much by the critics/writers cause Peter Grant (the brains behind the operation) never allowed Zeppelin to do many interviews if any at all and that is what made them successful, besides the fact that you had 4 great musicians who wrote great tunes.

Peter Grant was a genius at keeping Zeppelin under wraps. As long as Zeppelin kept on cranking out one great album after another, the public kept buying them and the critics kept getting more pissed cause they couldn't get their hands on Zeppelin.

www.anthonyliberto.com

[drummer wannabe]

Hey guys, I found some pics of his black diamond pearl rig:
http://www.led-zeppelin.org/referenc...?m=bonzo-early

As the site mentions, did he ever use a Slingerland at the very beginning of Led Zeppelin?

[Goody602]

Wow, 1000th post on Bonham.

Well that sure looks like a Slingerland logo to me in that first picture even though it's small and out of focus. The location on the head and the lettering give it away.

[handito]

Hi

First off I would like to say that I do not know if this is the right forum to put this thread in but since it is John Bonham related I thought it should be here in the drummers forum.

Anyway, I am to write a huge asignment for school on the way John Bonham influenced the music of Led Zeppelin. I will do this by analyzing several bars of different Led Zeppelin songs on sheet music. Now here is what I like to ask you guys about. It would be great for me if some of you could give me some examples of drummers that have inspired JB in his playing, for instance, if you can pin point a drummer or even better a track or beat that JB use as inspiration if you could spot a bit of Gene Krupa in his playing on Dazed and Confused etc. Also if you can point out some ways that he has influenced the drumming scene with his beats and style. I know that Beastie Boys has used some of his beats but if you could give me more examples I would truly apreciate it

Thanks