John Bonham

[pcmckay]

If John Bonham were alive today I think he would be embarassed of all of this worship of him that is going on. Everything that I have read about him he appeared to be a very laid back and a humble man . He would never claim to be the greatest drummer of all time, he was absolutely amazed by Buddy Rich and Billy Cobham just to name a few. Was he a technical wizard? No. But the style that he created was incredible and only he could play like that. He was for the most part self taught, never studied but had a natural ability that was complete genius. He was my biggest influence and the reason why I became a drummer. Do I think he was the greatest of all time? Of course not, but his playing moved me and spoke to me. Considering his background of not being a trained musician and cutting out a piece of music history for himself is a great testiment of the mans talent, and skill. John Bonham along with Bill Ward of Black Sabbath and Ian Paice were pioneers of what we now consider to be hard rock/Heavy Metal drumming. Are there drummers in this style of music that have surpassed the three drummers previously mentioned? Yes, and there will be others. But they would not be where they are today without the guys like Bonham who paved the way.

[harryconway]

Originally Posted by rendezvous_drummer

that there is a cigarette in his mouth

RD, priceless quote. Bravo.

Well I've owned 3 drumsets with a 14x12 hanging tom, and that looks to be the same proportions. It definitely ISN'T a 14x10.

Perhaps it is a 15, but you guys definitely have no credibility claiming so assuredly that it is for sure a 15. Just because you think of Bonham and his big sound doesn't mean the drum is a big 15 like you want it to be.

I watched the Zeppelin DVD with that kit, and it appears to be the same size as his snare, which I'm going to guess is NOT 15". But hey, what do I know?

Has anyone tried asking the Ochletree guy on here?

[harryconway]

Well certainly I'm not claiming anything for certain, other than this debate has been going on for about 20 years. I know in the DVD Bonham's wearing a tank top. And Paul was barefoot crossing the street so he must be dead.

[pcmckay]

Originally Posted by Stu_Strib

Well I've owned 3 drumsets with a 14x12 hanging tom, and that looks to be the same proportions. It definitely ISN'T a 14x10.

Perhaps it is a 15, but you guys definitely have no credibility claiming so assuredly that it is for sure a 15. Just because you think of Bonham and his big sound doesn't mean the drum is a big 15 like you want it to be.

I watched the Zeppelin DVD with that kit, and it appears to be the same size as his snare, which I'm going to guess is NOT 15". But hey, what do I know?

Has anyone tried asking the Ochletree guy on here?

It's a 12" x 14" tom. I am pretty certain he did not use a 15" tom until the stainless steel kit.

[pdp 9091]

Originally Posted by pcmckay

It's a 12" x 14" tom. I am pretty certain he did not use a 15" tom until the stainless steel kit.

yes exactly people....thats what ive been trying to say....i gave u guys proof before from a guy from the ludwig company...just look back at page 13.

[CooManChu]

Originally Posted by pcmckay

If John Bonham were alive today I think he would be embarassed of all of this worship of him that is going on.

Maybe some the worship bothered him when he was alive too? I don't know, but things did seem to eat away at him off the bandstand.

one of the most overrated drummers on earth.

[NUTHA JASON]

worst post ever.

i think there are a long line of drummers in front of john for that title. what a weird claim to make.

j

[NUTHA JASON]

firesticks sent me this PM and then dropped off the map:

first i was told that this site is built around 16 year olds
and it sure shows it. 2 i'm a pro drummer and i dont owe
you or anybody on this site any explanations PERIOD! This
site isn't for mature musicians/drummers. i simply stated my opinion: Alex Van Halen is without any doubt a better drummer than John Bonham.

smells worse than under a billy goat's bridge.

j

[pdp 9091]

Originally Posted by firesticks

one of the most overrated drummers on earth.

this is trolling if i ever saw it

a) no info to back up his opinion

b) leaves after hes shut down by nutha

[low-tech]

definately not overrated, he always played what zepplin songs needed, not using a band as a platform to show off. he changed the drumset for sure. people wanted bigger,double kit sets,gongs you name it after seeing him.

i think his influence is like hendrix, its so sublime that some people dont notice it. when you walk into the guitar center drumroom and hear someone play splits<tom,tom,bass,bass. real fast> or do a simple but loud triplet roll around the toms its like, you know bodham didnt invents these things but just stamped them into every drummers unconsious. thats the way i feel.

his playing was the impetus for metal drumming. his emphisis for a louder, more aggressive style and playing basic but incredibly solid beats and fills<for the most part, there are however moments where he rips during song> can be heard in lombardo and ulrich and alot of early thrash drummers and still carrys on to the more extreme drummers

[ewanlaing]

bonham isn't one of the MOST overrated drummers, but i do think he is a bit overratted by certain people. too many people spurt out claims like "bonham is god" and "there has never been or never will be a better rock drummer" and thats an overratted claim to make about any drummer.
but on the list of overratted drummers, bonham wouldn't make it to the top 100,000.

[intooder]

Originally Posted by low-tech

definately not overrated, he always played what zepplin songs needed, not using a band as a platform to show off. he changed the drumset for sure. people wanted bigger,double kit sets,gongs you name it after seeing him.

i think his influence is like hendrix, its so sublime that some people dont notice it. when you walk into the guitar center drumroom and hear someone play splits<tom,tom,bass,bass. real fast> or do a simple but loud triplet roll around the toms its like, you know bodham didnt invents these things but just stamped them into every drummers unconsious. thats the way i feel.

his playing was the impetus for metal drumming. his emphisis for a louder, more aggressive style and playing basic but incredibly solid beats and fills<for the most part, there are however moments where he rips during song> can be heard in lombardo and ulrich and alot of early thrash drummers and still carrys on to the more extreme drummers

Very well put. I totally agree on the analogy with hendrix, as well.

Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON

firesticks sent me this PM and then dropped off the map:



smells worse than under a billy goat's bridge.

j

How hilarious. He's saying this website is built around 16 year olds and proves his immaturity by not being able to explain his opinion. I love people like this, they make my life worth living.

[ewanlaing]

i think theres too many peolpe here anyway that just say "yeah, well you're just a teenager. harumph!" when they can't think up a valid defence.
i was watching the zeepelin dvd again. thats a high tomtom he plays on. i don't think i could manage it that high.

[mattsmith]

Originally Posted by ewanlaing

i think theres too many peolpe here anyway that just say "yeah, well you're just a teenager. harumph!" when they can't think up a valid defence.
i was watching the zeepelin dvd again. thats a high tomtom he plays on. i don't think i could manage it that high.

I think its because there are a number of people our age who seem more like imbeciles than most. They're the ones who are into all this ridiculous fan boy stuff and act like they are experts on every subject, even to the point of standing down obviously more experienced people. I think one of the reasons a genius like elvin4ever left forums was because he got tired of arguing with people who should have been listening to him instead.

Now does this mean there aren't some ridiculous older people on this forum? You bet there are. But as in life they get a pass and we don't. I accepted this a long time ago and just keep going. If you know your stuff about a certain matter they have to listen to you sooner or later.

[harryconway]

That "firesticks" cat was somethin' special, that's for sure. Tried his best at rousting my ire on an Alex Van Halen thing. And it's so funny, 'cause I'm from Pasadena and only a few years younger than the Van Halen's, seen them so many times for free in the early 70's and if there's anything I know about, it's about Van Halen. I was buyin' rock albums the same time they were, and a month later they were doin' covers off that album. So I think I might know what influences Alex had. A buddy of mine was the cat who turned then on to the song "Ice Cream Man". Yeah, that "firesticks" dude, wow.

[NUTHA JASON]

ewanlaingi think theres too many peolpe here anyway that just say "yeah, well you're just a teenager. harumph!" when they can't think up a valid defence.

and in fact i really like the way teens think. they aren't always the stereotypical teenager. many teens are open minded, fresh eared, serious people who lack the crippling ego of the adult who has seen it all and will not change.



Quote from a PM:
Originally Posted by firesticks
hey man from one drummer to the next i find that alex van halen has a much better grove than bonham also his timing was and is dam near perfect, listen to the songs and you will here more than one stye of playing in his music everything from metal,jazz blues and swing, i have found that bonham mostly stays in a comfort zone of one style. there is a drum solo on van halens cd balance, listen to it. if you would put it on the site. i'm not bashing bonham i'm just stating as an all around drummer alex vh is by far the superior drummer.
great country you live in i was in london 4 years a go for 2 months.


you are entitled to your opinions. but as admin of this site i have seen plenty of hero worshippers come and go. i love alex's drumming and bonzo's. bonham plays very differnet grooves across a broad spectrum of styles. he is very versatile ... i think your knowledge, based on your earlier posts, of his playing is very limited. i think it is wrong to rank and compare drummers in the way that you do. bonham died, alex is still alive...its a bit of a disadvantage. bonham influences more drummers today than alex does.
calm down on the alex is the superior drummer stuff and accept that bonham is as great as most people say he was.

j

[pdp 9091]

Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON

Originally Posted by firesticks
hey man from one drummer to the next i find that alex van halen has a much better grove than bonham also his timing was and is dam near perfect, listen to the songs and you will here more than one stye of playing in his music everything from metal,jazz blues and swing, i have found that bonham mostly stays in a comfort zone of one style.

bonham only has one style....how is that possible...ask him this.,...

do any of the following grooves in these songs sonund similar at all
-achilles last stand
-fool in the rain
-i cant quit you baby
-the rover
-going to califronia

----------------------------------------------------------------

-achilles last stand - metal/hard rock groove
-fool in the rain- shuffle groove
- i cant quit you baby - blues groove
-the rover - solid groove
-going to california - no groove

Originally Posted by pdp 9091

bonham only has one style....how is that possible...ask him this.,...

do any of the following grooves in these songs sonund similar at all
-achilles last stand
-fool in the rain
-i cant quit you baby
-the rover
-going to califronia

----------------------------------------------------------------

-achilles last stand - metal/hard rock groove
-fool in the rain- shuffle groove
- i cant quit you baby - blues groove
-the rover - solid groove
-going to california - no groove

This proves that we drummers should play more than spend time on the internet chatting about things!

[pdp 9091]

Originally Posted by fixmejesus

This proves that we drummers should play more than spend time on the internet chatting about things!

how do u say that....im just proving a point.....

isnt that what this site is for...chatting and discussing

[ewanlaing]

i like it when people have suggested listening posts. it's educational.
how often did bonham use his gong? are there any good examples on the led zepplin dvd? looks like it would be difficult to incorportate tastefully.

Originally Posted by pdp 9091

how do u say that....im just proving a point.....

isnt that what this site is for...chatting and discussing

Heck, I agree with you, I'm just saying we drummers a better a drumming than agreeing with each other.

[pdp 9091]

Originally Posted by ewanlaing

i like it when people have suggested listening posts. it's educational.
how often did bonham use his gong? are there any good examples on the led zepplin dvd? looks like it would be difficult to incorportate tastefully.

in the song remains the same he lit his mallet on fire and the gong stand on fire at the end....but on the dvd he crashed it at the end of kashmir

[harryconway]

Another great example of Bonham's influence. I don't recall anyone before him lighting their kits (or pieces of) on fire. Sure, maybe somebody did. But didn't get nearly the exposure John did. But I saw Alex V.H. light his cymbals on fire many years later.

[low-tech]

aaahh. the who where kind of the pioneers of gear destruction,speaker blowing feedback endings

i think kieth moon even detonated his bass drum on a tv show, he even took out the guitarist while doing it

[bonham990]

hmm... o ok what i've noticed on here is alot of people trying to say : Bonham is overated, Bonham isnt that good blah blah blah. Let's face the fact Bonham has influenced more drummers then anyone else, maybe even Buddy Rich. Artists that played in the same time period even say he was the greatest rock drummer ever. Billy Idol said " Rock 'n' Roll died when John Bonham died". Alex Van Halen would never be able to match John Bonham, he's just not powerfull enough, his drumming just didnt have the umph! that Johns had. I have some Alex Van halen solos and John Bonham solo's. John was much more creative the Alex. Alex was a great drummer but face it he was very repititive in alot of Van Halens songs. After reading John's biography "A thunder of drums" John never used the same beat twice he liked to be as original as possible. So to get to the facts John Bonham was the greatest Rock 'n' Roll drummer ever to play and always will be, no one will ever be able to match his loud, powerfull right foot triplets. Sure people can play them but not with the same amount of power. And his creative nature is just outstanding. Listen to Led Zeppelin's songs they all have there own personality.

[harryconway]

Originally Posted by low-tech

aaahh. the who where kind of the pioneers of gear destruction,speaker blowing feedback endings

i think kieth moon even detonated his bass drum on a tv show, he even took out the guitarist while doing it

Gear distruction is one thing. Pyrotechnics something else, unless the fire happens to consume your gear, which usually happens unplanned.

Originally Posted by bonham990

hmm... o ok what i've noticed on here is alot of people trying to say : Bonham is overated, Bonham isnt that good blah blah blah. Let's face the fact Bonham has influenced more drummers then anyone else, maybe even Buddy Rich. Artists that played in the same time period even say he was the greatest rock drummer ever. Billy Idol said " Rock 'n' Roll died when John Bonham died". Alex Van Halen would never be able to match John Bonham, he's just not powerfull enough, his drumming just didnt have the umph! that Johns had. I have some Alex Van halen solos and John Bonham solo's. John was much more creative the Alex. Alex was a great drummer but face it he was very repititive in alot of Van Halens songs. After reading John's biography "A thunder of drums" John never used the same beat twice he liked to be as original as possible. So to get to the facts John Bonham was the greatest Rock 'n' Roll drummer ever to play and always will be, no one will ever be able to match his loud, powerfull right foot triplets. Sure people can play them but not with the same amount of power. And his creative nature is just outstanding. Listen to Led Zeppelin's songs they all have there own personality.

The fact that most of the rock beats and grooves heard today, not to mention some r&b and rap, are direct ripoffs of Bonham proves the above post. We really do not hear much of Buddys stuff in these genres.

[harryconway]

Originally Posted by bonham990

hmm... o ok what i've noticed on here is alot of people trying to say : Bonham is overated, Bonham isnt that good blah blah blah. Let's face the fact Bonham has influenced more drummers then anyone else, maybe even Buddy Rich. Artists that played in the same time period even say he was the greatest rock drummer ever. After reading John's biography "A thunder of drums" John never used the same beat twice he liked to be as original as possible.

Very good point. Rock back then was not about note-per-note perfection. Sure, you had to play the song so that at least the audience recognized it, but concert crowds(fans) weren't so AR as people are now.

[pdp 9091]

Originally Posted by bonham990

So to get to the facts......no one will ever be able to match his loud, powerfull right foot triplets. Sure people can play them but not with the same amount of power.

uhh have u ever heard jojo mayer......his kick skills surpasses bonhams by far.....bonham is great at kick triplets but definatly people have matched it and surpassed it.

just watch this mayer video and ull see what i mean

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/jojomayerbasss.html

with the roll between hands and feet.....
what bonham does with 2 hands....hes does with 1 hand in this video

[Thirteen]

just wanted to chime in here.

Bonzo rules!

Powerful player.

Great use of dynamics.

[pcmckay]

Originally Posted by pdp 9091

uhh have u ever heard jojo mayer......his kick skills surpasses bonhams by far.....bonham is great at kick triplets but definatly people have matched it and surpassed it.

just watch this mayer video and ull see what i mean

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/jojomayerbasss.html

with the roll between hands and feet.....
what bonham does with 2 hands....hes does with 1 hand in this video

Yes, Jojo Mayer is an amazing drummer. But what I think you are over looking here is that Bonham's foot was just as fast if not faster, without using the foot slide or heel toe technique that Jojo uses. Bonham used the toe technique or the ball of his foot on a Ludwig Speed King, not one of these state of the art pedals today. Most of the pedals out there today the technology is so good that you can't help but get doubles and tripletts with almost little or no effort.

[pdp 9091]

Originally Posted by pcmckay

Yes, Jojo Mayer is an amazing drummer. But what I think you are over looking here is that Bonham's foot was just as fast if not faster, without using the foot slide or heel toe technique that Jojo uses. Bonham used the toe technique or the ball of his foot on a Ludwig Speed King, not one of these state of the art pedals today. Most of the pedals out there today the technology is so good that you can't help but get doubles and tripletts with almost little or no effort.

ya i really didnt think of that at first but still...bonham had great foot speed but i think that there are a few drummers that are a little faster.

[pcmckay]

Originally Posted by pdp 9091

ya i really didnt think of that at first but still...bonham had great foot speed but i think that there are a few drummers that are a little faster.

I agree there are a lot of drummers out there today that in my opinon are doing mind boggling things with double and single bass drums, Jojo fits in that category. I don't mean to undermine Jojo, he is probably one of my favorite drummers out today. But this is the problem with trying to compare drummers of different decades. Considering the equipment that Bonham had it is incredible what he could do, nothing compared to the technology of today. Imagine what Bonham could have done with an Axis pedal! It's kind of like Jimi Hendrix, guitar technology today is unreal compared to the late 60's. Imagine what Jimi could do playing on a rig that we have today.

[NUTHA JASON]

which is exactly why you cannot compare jojo to john. thirty years ago he was legendary on a bass drum...given his progress and that he had lived until today one can only imagine what he could have done. he was great in his time and jojo is great in his time now.

Originally Posted by bonham990
So to get to the facts......no one will ever be able to match his loud, powerfull right foot triplets. Sure people can play them but not with the same amount of power.

it is precisely this sort of unrealistic sentimentality that causes problems. i know with certainty that there are thousands of people on the planet right now who are better in every way than john bonham at single pedal technique. if anything i think this is a positive reflection of the effect he had.

j

ps: because we all should: see further ... stand on the shoulders of giants.

[finnhiggins]

Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON

which is exactly why you cannot compare jojo to john. thirty years ago he was legendary on a bass drum...given his progress and that he had lived until today one can only imagine what he could have done. he was great in his time and jojo is great in his time now.

I'd also suggest that while Bonham's right food was great by standards at the time for rock drummers there were also a number of jazz guys around at the time who had some absolutely blazing right foot chops going. I've mentioned him repeatedly, but how many of you young Bonhamites are actually familiar with Tony Williams?

What we can celebrate is that Bonham took Rock and Roll to another level. He took elements like those in Jazz and R&B artist you all keep talking about and integrated them into Rock and then into Heavy Metal and sparked the Gothic Rock movement. This is something the other bands and drummers at the time were lacking in.

Sure there might have been other artists as fast as Bonham with the feet, but thats not the point. Heck, tap dancers are faster with the feet supporting their weight standing up!

We elect 1 Miss USA, Universe every year even though there are still others who are just as beautiful on this planet, let alone the other planets out there.

I think it is safe to say that Bonham had the fastest right foot out there even though there might be a guy or gal or whatever from the fifth planet of cygnus that was slightly faster at the time.

This whole debate about the speed of Johns right foot reminds me of chidren arguing about who has the strongest dad or the biggest house or something like that.

Common Bonhamides, get a break - its completely irrelevant, isn't it? Who cares, if Johns foot was faster or slower than anybody elses foot? He played good times bad times and he sounded great.

I'm sure, that thousands of drummers can play that song, but the one on the record and in the band was John. Who gives a sh*t about how fast you can move your hands or feet, if you cannot turn it into music? John could, and thats what he was all about for me.

Same goes for any drummer I know. I don't care a bit about tech, if a drummer cannot use it musically. Thats why I'm a fan of Tony, Vinnie, Steve, JoJo or John - they have/had great technique and are/were able to turn it into great music. And besides: Tech is NOT only about speed. Its about sound, groove and control. Speed is a nice sideeffect of good technique.

Just my two cents on this.