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  #601  
Old 04-20-2006, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON
brilliant. when i get home i'm going to listen and read.

i wish more posts in the drummers sections were about transcripts and methods and tuning and not so much about how much a drummer is the best or fastest. well done coomanchu.
j
Hey thanks - anything you can suggest will be cool. Yeah, I agree about that fastest thing. It really gets out of control sometimes. I really don't even think the players we idolize worry too much about it themselves.

Me too on the other topic: I'm hoping to see alot more methods and transcripts because it's really cool to see what other people play and what other people think other people play. Plus I know I have mistakes all over in my few transcriptions, so if people can tear them apart, we'll all learn something.
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  #602  
Old 04-21-2006, 08:16 AM
stagecustom stagecustom is offline
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Default Re: John Bonham

here is a site i found it has 23 drum outtakes of Bonham

http://www.saladrecords.com/bonhamfiles.htm




....you guys are very welcome haha
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  #603  
Old 04-21-2006, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
Originally Posted by stagecustom
here is a site i found it has 23 drum outtakes of Bonham

http://www.saladrecords.com/bonhamfiles.htm




....you guys are very welcome haha

me and bonham91 posted this site a month ago...its a great site tho
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  #604  
Old 04-21-2006, 10:38 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

in black dog, where is the first beat in the singing?
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  #605  
Old 04-21-2006, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

bonham battles to find his entry during recording of black dog...if you listen very carefully he clicks a stick just before each entry during plant's singing to give JPJ and JP a count in...(typical zep it is a count in of only one but it still is a clue).

j

Ps i learned it by sheer will and hearing it hundreds of times.
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  #606  
Old 04-21-2006, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

That song is a nightmare but I heard a little story that they did all that on purpose to prevent people from covering it. Each and every time I always get that break wrong, and I never quite finish on the right beat. In the end I usually end up hitting the 'next track' button and playing along to Rock And Roll baby!
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  #607  
Old 04-21-2006, 12:18 PM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat
That song is a nightmare but I heard a little story that they did all that on purpose to prevent people from covering it. Each and every time I always get that break wrong, and I never quite finish on the right beat. In the end I usually end up hitting the 'next track' button and playing along to Rock And Roll baby!
If you go to Drumtech they'll make you play it in Live Performance week 10.. :)
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  #608  
Old 04-21-2006, 12:23 PM
Mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: John Bonham

IF I go to DrumTech. Actually Finn... that's not a bad idea. Pity I'm not a good enough player. Heh. Week ten? What's week thirty?
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  #609  
Old 04-22-2006, 09:57 PM
A thunder of Coxy A thunder of Coxy is offline
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Default Re: John Bonham

Can you send us some info on DrumTech plz Finn? Prices, entry requirements, what you get taught etc? Would be greatly appreciated.Cheers
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  #610  
Old 04-23-2006, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON
bonham battles to find his entry during recording of black dog...if you listen very carefully he clicks a stick just before each entry during plant's singing to give JPJ and JP a count in...(typical zep it is a count in of only one but it still is a clue).

j

Ps i learned it by sheer will and hearing it hundreds of times.


o man....i hate playing to this song....when im not sitting behind the drumset and at my desk at the computer and im listening to it im jamming on the table with my hands to it and seem to get it fine but behind the drum set i just cant....kinda weird
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  #611  
Old 04-23-2006, 02:04 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

and garunteed....everyone who reads this part of the thread will turn on black dog and listen to it just like im doing now
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  #612  
Old 04-23-2006, 03:50 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Drumming seems alot easier until you get behind the kit. I can play anything when im not around a kit. When i actually get behind a kit well thats a different story.
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  #613  
Old 04-23-2006, 04:03 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonham990
Drumming seems alot easier until you get behind the kit. I can play anything when im not around a kit. When i actually get behind a kit well thats a different story.
ya but i mostly mean the timing of the drums in black dog...its really tricky
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  #614  
Old 04-23-2006, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

When I'm playing listening to Black Dog, I can play it, I need those cues. Sit me behind a kit and say "play Black Dog" and I can't do it, haha. Maybe if the guitarist in my band could manage it, or if they wanted to play it, which they won't.

The start of Rock and Roll is damn hard though. Fool in the Rain I can do. That's a fun song.

For learning certain parts of songs, I use a cheap MP3 player. It has a rate (speed) option, AND it you can go to a certain song, set A-B, press a button at the start of the bit you want to learn, then press again at the end. Just repeats the section over and over. For playing to songs I use a CD player (with headphones & power adapter) though, the MP3 player will eat up the batteries otherwise.
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  #615  
Old 04-23-2006, 09:00 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Very cool drum outtakes stagecustom. I really enjoyed listening to them. If only I could get a drum sound like that in the studio! Bonzo's drum sound is so incredible, it's amazing that with all of this digital technology out there today people are still trying to get that drum sound from almost thirty years ago.
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  #616  
Old 04-24-2006, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip
For learning certain parts of songs, I use a cheap MP3 player. It has a rate (speed) option, AND it you can go to a certain song, set A-B, press a button at the start of the bit you want to learn, then press again at the end. Just repeats the section over and over. For playing to songs I use a CD player (with headphones & power adapter) though, the MP3 player will eat up the batteries otherwise.
Does anyone like to use Transcribe? I use it and I think it's great. You can slow things down, speed them up, select sections of a tune to auto repeat. You can export any speed mods or selections to a separate file then burn that to a CD or keep as an MP3 (helpul if you want to play a tune at 90% tempo). It's a very solid application written by a British guitar player, Andy Robinson. It's shareware, but well worth the measly registration price. It runs on Linux, Mac, and Windows. I think it's the best tool out there for transcritions by ear: http://www.seventhstring.com/

Black Dog - I actually have not looked too closely at that one, but I will. I read in Thunder of Drums that Jones said Bohnam had trouble with that tune. What was trouble for Bonham? The band had to play it twice before he got it?

I've never caught those stick clicks - I gotta hear than now! :)
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  #617  
Old 04-24-2006, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
Black Dog - I actually have not looked too closely at that one, but I will. I read in Thunder of Drums that Jones said Bohnam had trouble with that tune. What was trouble for Bonham? The band had to play it twice before he got it?
the trouble is that plant sings each stanza in free time blues style and then the band has to come in, all together and all at the same speed. if you listen very carefully you will notice the rest between plan'ts last word and the entry grows gradually shorter...

Hey, hey, mama, said the way you move
Gonna make you sweat, gonna make you groove
.... (longest gap and then in come the drums and guitars)

Ah, ah, child, way you shake that thing
Gonna make you burn, gonna make you sting...
(medium gap)

Hey, hey, baby, when you walk that way
Watch your honey drip, can't keep away
.... (almost no gap)

and buried in the last words each time you will hear a stick click.
j
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  #618  
Old 04-24-2006, 09:39 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

The hardest part is where the guitar kinda goes off on a tangent, leaving the drums to play at the same tempo. It's a fun, challenging song.
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  #619  
Old 04-25-2006, 02:20 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON
the trouble is that plant sings each stanza in free time blues style and then the band has to come in, all together and all at the same speed. if you listen very carefully you will notice the rest between plan'ts last word and the entry grows gradually shorter...

Hey, hey, mama, said the way you move
Gonna make you sweat, gonna make you groove
.... (longest gap and then in come the drums and guitars)

Ah, ah, child, way you shake that thing
Gonna make you burn, gonna make you sting...
(medium gap)

Hey, hey, baby, when you walk that way
Watch your honey drip, can't keep away
.... (almost no gap)

and buried in the last words each time you will hear a stick click.
j
Gotcha - yep, I do hear the click. Wild.

Do you think that anyone would have had come into the session with a chart of at least the form for this tune or do you think it just evolved? It seems like it would be a real bear to talk someone down on this tune without a piece of paper to at least serve as a road map.
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  #620  
Old 04-25-2006, 02:47 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

i just recorded a video of me playing this song...ill get it up on youtube tomorrow. A couple parts i messed up with...mostly those hard timing parts.
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  #621  
Old 04-25-2006, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham Fans

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSTRKRFT
Does anyone know what size this mounted tom is pictured here?



Please answer quick, I need to know! Thanks. (Please make sure you're 100% positive)
You will note the Roger's Swivo holder? This is the 12x15. There was also a 12x14, you can see this drum as mounted on a snare stand, in various pics.
Appice's bass drums were 15x26s, not 14x26s, which were a requested size, so, if Bonham received an identical kit to appice, his bass drums would have been 15x26 on one of the maple configurations.
The green sparkle was 10x14
The amber was 10x14
The stainless was 12x15, until the latter dates when he went back to a 10x14 stainless tom.


At the time of his death, Bonham had a 14x24 bass drum on order from ludwig.

Last edited by ClockworkOrange; 04-25-2006 at 03:35 AM.
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  #622  
Old 04-25-2006, 03:33 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
Originally Posted by theduke86
. Likewise, given very hard study for an endured period of time, you can learn to play exactly like John Bohnam.

No. Sorry. He is as UNIQUE as Buddy or Elvin. Oh yes, and if you know of such a person, there are three geezers in England that would pay the chap a million pounds to go out on tour with them........
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  #623  
Old 04-25-2006, 05:56 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockworkOrange
No. Sorry. He is as UNIQUE as Buddy or Elvin. Oh yes, and if you know of such a person, there are three geezers in England that would pay the chap a million pounds to go out on tour with them........
Hey man, I gotta say I like your posts a lot, but you should reread the thread closer. John Bohnam is every bit as unique as either Elvin or Buddy. I never claimed otherwise.
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  #624  
Old 04-25-2006, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Coomanchu
Quote:
Do you think that anyone would have had come into the session with a chart of at least the form for this tune or do you think it just evolved? It seems like it would be a real bear to talk someone down on this tune without a piece of paper to at least serve as a road map.
you know, in all my reading on the great man i have never found any mention of whether he read or wrote charts or manuscript (that i can recall).

i think each member in the band were creative giants. john paul jones is a genius of course, jimi was already a legend from his yardbird days and plant had oodles of blues influence. i think each song was created differently.

i can imagine that for black dog jimi played the riff, bonzo put some drums to it and plant suggested doing the free singing between. jonesy probably arranged the rest of the structure with a lot of arguments with plant.

i can guess that good times bad times was inspired by bonham doing that weird beat and the rest fell into place.

songs like thank-you and the rain song might have been jones started

songs like since i've been loving you and dazed and confused are actually highly original covers of blues standards.

j
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  #625  
Old 04-25-2006, 01:30 PM
A thunder of Coxy A thunder of Coxy is offline
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Default Re: John Bonham

Infact Jonesy came up with the riff for "Black Dog" I learnt this from "led-zeppelin.com" with the studio outakes. Very kool stuff on that page.
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  #626  
Old 04-25-2006, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: John Bonham

The best version to use to actually hear what Bonham is doing on 'Black Dog' is the one from the BBC sessions. You can clearly hear the bass drum doubles, and as mentioned by Jay, the last hihat click to make the other guys aware of the 'entry'...Bonham softpedalled the other beats on hat. The bass drum doubles puts into perspective where Bonham is 'reading' the beat on the song.
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  #627  
Old 04-25-2006, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: John Bonham Fans

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockworkOrange
You will note the Roger's Swivo holder? This is the 12x15. There was also a 12x14, you can see this drum as mounted on a snare stand, in various pics.
Appice's bass drums were 15x26s, not 14x26s, which were a requested size, so, if Bonham received an identical kit to appice, his bass drums would have been 15x26 on one of the maple configurations.
The green sparkle was 10x14
The amber was 10x14
The stainless was 12x15, until the latter dates when he went back to a 10x14 stainless tom.


At the time of his death, Bonham had a 14x24 bass drum on order from ludwig.

we already settled this...its not a 15 inch tom....i posted proof from a ludwig manager himself:

Ludwig, Finish-Thermo-Gloss Natural Maple
14"x26" x2 Bass Drums-model #-926L
Cymbal Mounts-model #-1372C
Bass drum spurs were 2 sets of Ludwig Disappearing spurs-model #-1303C on each drum.
12"x14" Tom-Custom Order**
16"x16" Floor Tom-model # 950L
16"x18" Floor Tom-model # 952L (this was added later on)
6.5"x14" Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum-model # 402

He also used a pair of conga drums.

**For years I thought his tom was a 12"x15" but Todd Trent from Ludwig told me it was 12"x14" not a 12"x15" (Thanks Todd!)



http://www.griptoad.com/JBKITS.html
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  #628  
Old 04-25-2006, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: John Bonham Fans

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdp 9091
we already settled this...its not a 15 inch tom....i posted proof from a ludwig manager himself:

Ludwig, Finish-Thermo-Gloss Natural Maple
14"x26" x2 Bass Drums-model #-926L
Cymbal Mounts-model #-1372C
Bass drum spurs were 2 sets of Ludwig Disappearing spurs-model #-1303C on each drum.
12"x14" Tom-Custom Order**
16"x16" Floor Tom-model # 950L
16"x18" Floor Tom-model # 952L (this was added later on)
6.5"x14" Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum-model # 402

He also used a pair of conga drums.

**For years I thought his tom was a 12"x15" but Todd Trent from Ludwig told me it was 12"x14" not a 12"x15" (Thanks Todd!)



http://www.griptoad.com/JBKITS.html
I'm sorry, but, you're wrong. If the tom being referred to is the one with the swivo holder in the pic, it is from the kit that is at the bottom of page 36, in A Thunder of Drums. It's 'mate'
the 10x14 is pictured there with the two bass drums, NOTE the Swivo holders on the bass drums?
The above pic from ANOTHER maple kit has the 12x14 tom. It is placed on a snare drum stand. Also, with this pic, please note the double ludwig spurs on the bass drum. These were put on as the drum's depth is 15", the same as Appice's.

Last edited by ClockworkOrange; 04-25-2006 at 09:22 PM.
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  #629  
Old 04-25-2006, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Does anyone know how Bonham did 'Heartbreaker' on the studio cut it sound like the hats are doubling kind shuffle like. Just curious.


Mike
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  #630  
Old 04-25-2006, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: John Bonham

this is the most common tab i found for heartbreaker.

BPM = 95
.................................................. ....|----repeat 6x---|
C..|----------------|----------------|x---------------|----------------|
HH |----------------|----------------|--x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|
S..|----------------|-----------ooo--|----o-------o---|----o-------o---|
Bd |----------------|----------------|o--o----o--o-o--|o--o----o--o-o--|
Hf |----------------|--------------x-|----------------|----------------|

...|1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |

i think this is what john played but then they did one of two things ...
either they laid another track of hihat or they added an echo. the reason i believe this is the case is because i have just listened very carefully to the track and i don't think the 'shuffled' hihat part have the same timbre...ie they are either another hi hat or they are the same hihat put through different effects... it could be a shaker even. funnily enough i've always played this song with two hands on the hihat and played the snare with my right...
something like this:


HH(L)|-x---x---x---x--|
HH(R)|x-x---x-x-x---x-|
S(R).|----o-------o---|
Bd...|o--o----o--o-o--|

.....|1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |

j
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  #631  
Old 04-26-2006, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

I don't hear the shuffle at all on the two live recordings I have (one from How the West Was Won, one from BBC Sessions), but both of those are a little quicker than Zeppelin II and you can definitely hear it there. So, I agree: it could be just an effect they added or it could be the shaker that he had mounted on the top of his hi-hat too. You hear nothing like the shuffle or ghost notes when he moves over to his ride cymbal on the Zeppelin II recording even though the rest of the groove is pretty much the same.

The timbre does sound different to me too - especially immediately after the back beat - maybe that's the shaker and it's a little more prominent there because he's hitting the hi-hat a little harder on the back beat for effect.

Probably not my final answer, but I'm going to say shaker mounted on the hi-hat. Whatever it is, it's a very nice, subtle effect that actually adds quite a nice texture to the groove.

Could it possibly not be a shaker or a studio effect?
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  #632  
Old 04-26-2006, 05:21 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

In reference to Heartbreaker I myself always played two hands on the hi-hat also. I think there is overdubbed percussion on that track. There is that famous photo in the studio of of Jones, Plant, and Bonham playing various percussion instruments, I don't think it's a far reach that maybe they overdubbed something there. But I agree about the live recordings of this tune he is not playing two hands on the hi-hat, it's pretty straight forward. I like the live versions better, it is a faster tempo then the studio track. When I play this song out I usually play the BBC recordings version.
I have a question in reference to "Ramble On" since we are talking about Led Zeppelin II. Does anyone know what that subtle tapping noise is throughout the song? What is Bonham playing on or is it electronically produced? To me it almost sounds like a towell on top of maybe a floor tom, or sometimes it sounds like he is tapping on a phonebook (ha ha.)
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  #633  
Old 04-26-2006, 05:35 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

I wish Bonham was still alive because if he was i think he would be the best drummer there is
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  #634  
Old 04-26-2006, 07:42 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
I have a question in reference to "Ramble On" since we are talking about Led Zeppelin II. Does anyone know what that subtle tapping noise is throughout the song? What is Bonham playing on or is it electronically produced? To me it almost sounds like a towell on top of maybe a floor tom, or sometimes it sounds like he is tapping on a phonebook (ha ha.)
lol. i wouldn't be surprised if it was actually jimi doing that on the wood of his accoustic guitar. or john might be hand hitting a drum case. it is the ironic opposite to his drumsound philosophy of wide open ringing drums.

j
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  #635  
Old 04-26-2006, 08:31 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

About all this black dog talk...doesnt he just come in on an up-beat? Try it out.
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  #636  
Old 04-26-2006, 08:58 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

My 15x12 rack tom with a 26x14 kick.
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  #637  
Old 04-26-2006, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham Fans

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSTRKRFT
Does anyone know what size this mounted tom is pictured here?



Please answer quick, I need to know! Thanks. (Please make sure you're 100% positive)
I think it's a 15x12.
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  #638  
Old 04-26-2006, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryconway
My 15x12 rack tom with a 26x14 kick.
That's some good kick drum! Nice Harry, where do you get all this great gear?
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  #639  
Old 04-26-2006, 11:10 AM
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harryconway harryconway is offline
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Location: Pasadena, California, U.S.A.
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Default Re: John Bonham

Thanx MFB. Mostly I eBay.
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  #640  
Old 04-26-2006, 12:25 PM
ClockworkOrange
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Default Re: John Bonham

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmckay
I have a question in reference to "Ramble On" since we are talking about Led Zeppelin II. Does anyone know what that subtle tapping noise is throughout the song? What is Bonham playing on or is it electronically produced? To me it almost sounds like a towell on top of maybe a floor tom, or sometimes it sounds like he is tapping on a phonebook (ha ha.)
That's the sound of a drumstick on vinyl...or to be precise the sound of drumsticks on the top of his drumthrone seat.
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