Virgil Donati

[Dr_Funky]

Easily one of my favorite drummers, and he's Australian too!

The only way to match Virgil Donati's technique is to wander the desert for 30 years and take up yoga.

[Mezzair]

I've been following Virgil for over a year or so now, I've checked out his solo stuff, purchased his DVD and his play along book, which are all fantastic. Despite is amazing skills, I still cannot stop watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8zbqhIORJE

I can't believe how awesome and simple that is. It's amazing that Virgil can do all this complicated stuff, but when it comes down to pure playing, he's awesome at the simple stuff.

I think some people tend to miss that out and try and progress on to advanced stuff with out mastering the simple concepts.

[goughy]

My fav virgil clip is from years ago, I think it was the Australian Aria Awards. Melissa Etheridge performed 'Like the Way I do' with artists Jack Jones (guitar) and Virgil Donati from Aussie band Southern Sons, and Gary Gary Beers from INXS on bass. It was just standout pure rock and I luv luv luv luv luv it! I have it on a video cassette somewhere with no way to play it.

This is where I first learnt of Virgil D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwW3nFmdAs8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNtdTTaphpM

I never saw them live in Aus, but they were pretty big in their day. I remember talking to one of the music shop owners in town and he was telling me a heap of drummers went down to a show and came home disappointed because it didn't turn into the 'virgil donati show' and he just played for the music. I thought that was pretty funny :)

[Drum-Head]

Originally Posted by Mezzair

I've been following Virgil for over a year or so now, I've checked out his solo stuff, purchased his DVD and his play along book, which are all fantastic. Despite is amazing skills, I still cannot stop watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8zbqhIORJE

I can't believe how awesome and simple that is. It's amazing that Virgil can do all this complicated stuff, but when it comes down to pure playing, he's awesome at the simple stuff.

I think some people tend to miss that out and try and progress on to advanced stuff with out mastering the simple concepts.

Although that is some awesome groovery he displays in that vid with Soul Sirkus (I recommend the album with Virgil on it if you wan to hear him play some nice "normal" Rock music), I would not call that simple. He is integrating some complicated rhythmic tricks in that 4/4 groove.

[Mezzair]

Originally Posted by Drum-Head

Although that is some awesome groovery he displays in that vid with Soul Sirkus (I recommend the album with Virgil on it if you wan to hear him play some nice "normal" Rock music), I would not call that simple. He is integrating some complicated rhythmic tricks in that 4/4 groove.

Maybe I over estimated the 'simple' part of that :) It is however refreshing for someone to think outside of the box when it comes to these things.

[Matt-a-tat-tat]

Originally Posted by Citizen Insane

I can't say I like Virgil donati, I find his drumming very mechanical and boring, and constant doublebass in solo's gets to me after awhile. I tried really hard to get into him, but he just isn't my type of drummer.

I agree with the double bass drum part. Drum solos usually bore me to tears but when they're musical: check out Steve Smith's solo in the Drummer World grooves. Now that's a solo. Virgil's sticking is WAY more interesting than the double bass stuff. I don't know, I kinda dislike most double bass stuff and double pedal stuff because it's usually just RLRLRLRLRLRLR as fast as possible. I don't care for Ray Herrera too much but that guy can play some very even and fast triplet patterns and what not. Anyway, I like Virgil's playing but it does appear to be sort of mechanical and sometimes kind of on the verge of sloppy.

[Drum-Head]

Originally Posted by Matt-a-tat-tat

I like Virgil's playing but it does appear to be sort of mechanical and sometimes kind of on the verge of sloppy.

Mechanical yet sloppy? Isn't that a bit contradicting? And moreover the words "sloppy" and "Virgil Donati" don't belong in the same phrase. Like him or not that is entirely up to one's personal tastes but if there is one think you can't say about Virgil it's that he's sloppy.

[Matt-a-tat-tat]

Originally Posted by Drum-Head

Mechanical yet sloppy? Isn't that a bit contradicting? And moreover the words "sloppy" and "Virgil Donati" don't belong in the same phrase. Like him or not that is entirely up to one's personal tastes but if there is one think you can't say about Virgil it's that he's sloppy.

I said SOMETIMES KIND OF ON THE VERGE of being sloppy. that's a far cry from: Virgil Donati's always sloppy. I think a machine can be sloppy. would you trust a robot in a car factory to change a baby's diaper? a mecanical device can sometimes be built NOT to display tender nuances and so forth. I like Virgil's drumming a lot. but nobody's beyond criticism.

[Mezzair]

Could someone explain the phrase (is to) 'Mechanical'? I presume it's when someone is relying to much on rudiments?

[Matt-a-tat-tat]

You know like a machine. Peart gets called a robot or too mechanical all the time because he never plays behind the beat and what not and lacks subtlety (which I disagree with). perhaps saying Virgil is too mechanical isn't quite right. It's not so much about rudiments I guess but more about playing very technical things all the time and very precisely like a machine, not a human? ah, what do i know, I'm at work and trying not to get caught messing around on here.

[Drum-Head]

Originally Posted by Matt-a-tat-tat

I said SOMETIMES KIND OF ON THE VERGE of being sloppy. that's a far cry from: Virgil Donati's always sloppy. I think a machine can be sloppy. would you trust a robot in a car factory to change a baby's diaper? a mecanical device can sometimes be built NOT to display tender nuances and so forth. I like Virgil's drumming a lot. but nobody's beyond criticism.

I never said Virgil was beyond criticism. I know that for a lot of people his playing comes off as stale... That is their feeling towards his drumming and that perfectly fine. But aside that subjectivity there is a certain objectivity when talking about the drums and music. My point is simply that Virgil is one of the most solid drummers around. His whole philosophy/approach is based upon the perfection execution of rhythms and he is flawless in that domain. That is what made Virgil's popularity in the first place."Semetimes kind of the verge" is an expression that I do not really understand, and I do not understand the analogy with a robot changing a diaper. Where does that relate with the execution of rhythms?

I hope you're not taking this the wrong way. I'm not yelling or anything. So I hope I'm not coming off as so. It's just that I have been following Virgil for many years and really, he is nowhere near sloppy, not even on the verge of it.

[Matt-a-tat-tat]

Originally Posted by Drum-Head

I never said Virgil was beyond criticism. I know that for a lot of people his playing comes off as stale... That is their feeling towards his drumming and that perfectly fine. But aside that subjectivity there is a certain objectivity when talking about the drums and music. My point is simply that Virgil is one of the most solid drummers around. His whole philosophy/approach is based upon the perfection execution of rhythms and he is flawless in that domain. That is what made Virgil's popularity in the first place."Semetimes kind of the verge" is an expression that I do not really understand, and I do not understand the analogy with a robot changing a diaper. Where does that relate with the execution of rhythms?

I hope you're not taking this the wrong way. I'm not yelling or anything. So I hope I'm not coming off as so. It's just that I have been following Virgil for many years and really, he is nowhere near sloppy, not even on the verge of it.

No worries mate. The diaper changing robot is in response to the claim that a mechanical system cannot be sloppy. Whereas a car building robot is precise in the welds or whatever is required of it to build a gigantic car or truck it lacks the subtlety required to change a baby's diaper. You said you didn't understand mechanical and sloppy, that that was contradiction. Just a non-drumming related side. Anyway I get what you mean about Virgil. He's good, really good. If I could play half that good I'd be satisfied. As far as his being on the verge of sloppiness claim, I've heard that mentioned a couple times. And I really do sense that in some of the things I've seen him do, not the totality of his playing. As a matter of fact, it wasn't until someone else said he seemed on the verge of sloppiness or being out of control that I noticed this.

[Drum-Head]

Originally Posted by Matt-a-tat-tat

No worries mate. The diaper changing robot is in response to the claim that a mechanical system cannot be sloppy. Whereas a car building robot is precise in the welds or whatever is required of it to build a gigantic car or truck it lacks the subtlety required to change a baby's diaper. You said you didn't understand mechanical and sloppy, that that was contradiction. Just a non-drumming related side. Anyway I get what you mean about Virgil. He's good, really good. If I could play half that good I'd be satisfied. As far as his being on the verge of sloppiness claim, I've heard that mentioned a couple times. And I really do sense that in some of the things I've seen him do, not the totality of his playing. As a matter of fact, it wasn't until someone else said he seemed on the verge of sloppiness or being out of control that I noticed this.

Well I don't understand your diaper analogy because it relates to a robot built to assemble cars with precision, doing a completely different task that it is not made to do at all. It's as if you're telling me that a very solid, precise drummer was sloppy fighting with a Katana. That's how I understood it. That being said I still have not witnessed Virgil getting - what I would consider as - sloppy... Maybe someday? That would make my day to say he messed something up lol!

[cheezruff]

Virgil is a cutting edge drummer, a visionary, a great writer, and can easily fit in to many musical situations and styles. I think he's one of the most futuristic musicians on the scene today.

[m1ck]

He's over-rated.... very over-rated.......

[Bernhard]

Originally Posted by m1ck

He's over-rated.... very over-rated.......

phantastic statement.

Bernhard

[Paiste 2002]

Hopefully m1ck was kidding.... otherwise that is instantly in the top 10 dumbest statements ever posted on DrummerWorld.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Originally Posted by m1ck

He's over-rated.... very over-rated.......

Yeah right, possibly the most advanced player on the planet is over-rated.

[aydee]

Who & where is this Rating Committee, and where can I write em?

[m1ck]

Originally Posted by Bernhard

phantastic statement.

Bernhard

Bernhard at al,

I copied-and-pasted those exact words from someone else in another thread, just to see how he would respond to them here. I'm sorry, it was a trollish thing to do. I shouldn't post when I've been drinking.

I had raised the issue in the Portnoy thread about people who cry "over rated," basically asking where they get off. I saw the same member in this thread gushing over this particular drummer, and I wanted to see how he would react to his own words. I was bad.

For the record, Virgil is obviously a phenomenal drummer - a marvel to watch. I do not think he is "over rated" and frankly I would never say such a thing about any drummer, because I think that attitude reeks of immature arrogance. "My favorite drummer is better than your favorite drummer."

Perhaps it was reckless of me to try to make my point the way I did - maybe even sneaky. I'll behave myself in the future. Sorry, I didn't mean to cause any bad feelings.

[Bernhard]

Originally Posted by m1ck

Bernhard at al,

I copied-and-pasted those exact words from someone else in another thread, just to see how he would respond to them here. I'm sorry, it was a trollish thing to do. I shouldn't post when I've been drinking.

I had raised the issue in the Portnoy thread about people who cry "over rated," basically asking where they get off. I saw the same member in this thread gushing over this particular drummer, and I wanted to see how he would react to his own words. I was bad.

For the record, Virgil is obviously a phenomenal drummer - a marvel to watch. I do not think he is "over rated" and frankly I would never say such a thing about any drummer, because I think that attitude reeks of immature arrogance. "My favorite drummer is better than your favorite drummer."

Perhaps it was reckless of me to try to make my point the way I did - maybe even sneaky. I'll behave myself in the future. Sorry, I didn't mean to cause any bad feelings.

Hi M1ck: For me it's all good - Thanks for writing this and clarifying.

Bernhard

[m1ck]

Back onto the subject of Virgil Donati:

His technical proficiency is amazing, but when I watch him I wonder why he uses a traditional grip. It looks physically awkward for the style that he plays.

Perhaps this just goes to show that any particular grip is entirely irrelevant.

Any thoughts?

[crdirtRider856]

[quote=m1ck;461358]Bernhard at al,

I. I shouldn't post when I've been drinking.QUOTE]

Been there and "NO" Bad dog!! What do we say?" "I m sorry master." Yeah, the day after usually makes you think-"Why did I do that?" I hate alcohol, but love it just the same. I just do not like not being in control of myself, therefore, I gave it up. Hope your all good Mick. Really!

[m1ck]

Ish alright, man. I love you and reshpect you. (hic)

[crdirtRider856]

LMAO!!! I am a bit serious though....Although I have noticed- Virgil sweats his ass off alot. Could it be?

[DixonDrums]

Originally Posted by cheezruff

Virgil is a cutting edge drummer, a visionary, a great writer, and can easily fit in to many musical situations and styles. I think he's one of the most futuristic musicians on the scene today.

On the DVD of Steve Vai's "Live at the Astoria", Steve and his band joke about Virgil practicing all of the time (even after shows) but its that serious dedication that makes him soo deadly. He plays every now and then at The Baked Potato here in LA with the usual suspects (Tony McAlpine, Rufus Philpot, Steve Weingart etc) and its definitely something to behold!! I guess we're a bit lucky there's more than a few venues in the Studio City area that bring the chops our way.

[Morgenthaler]

Originally Posted by m1ck

I wonder why he uses a traditional grip.
Any thoughts?

Virgil grew up with a bunch of heroes playing trad. grip. Gadd, Buddy, Elvin Jones, to name a few. He chose to stick with that, even through hard rock.

Today he states (ands has done so several times) that objectively speaking, matched grip is
easier maintained, and recommendable in any way. He just sticks to trad. because that's the way he grew up playing, and he still likes it.

Best regards
Jeppe Morgenthaler
/virgildonati.com

[aydee]

Here are some pics I took of the man last month ( sorry phone cam), enjoy:

[Swiss Matthias]

I just wanted to pop in and state that I'm a big big fan of Virgil and his playing. I believe I know most of his stuff, and I think his playing - (concerning technique and "his language") is just a whole world in itself.
I perfectly understand that there are people who just don't like his playing. But some of the stuff said about him or his playing makes me quite sad. I think you MAY somewhat bash a drummer who claims to be the best, or at least thinks of himself as a great great drummer, especially if he isn't:D. But never does Virgil say anything just near that - on the contrary, "After all those years I feel I've just scratched the surface" is my favourite quotes of his.

[cantstandyourfunk]

Originally Posted by finnhiggins

Question: How old are you? I ask because back when I was maybe eighteen, nineteen or so I used to think like this too. Drumming was still new, and I was exploring the world of virtuoso playing for the first time, etc etc. So each new amazing drummer I saw was pulling out these blazing chops, and I couldn't even imagine how you'd get to be able to play like that etc etc. Blew me away.

Flash forward a few years. Now when I see a solo like that it's a bit more like "double kick rudiments... check.... fast singles... check... oh look... a polyrhythm....". You see? After you see enough of that stuff it turns into a checklist and really stops being in any way exciting.

The way I see it, music is like a language. You try to express something through what you play, and if you're any good then the audience feels it. Now, imagine you're learning a new language - say you're not a native English speaker. Initially, if you see a book or article written by somebody and it uses lots of long words and complex sentences... you're impressed. You think... "Wow, this guy really knows all the grammar rules and he's got a huge vocabulary". Because all of that stuff looks so daunting and far away it makes you grant an automatic degree of respect and authority to what's being said. But once you get a better grasp of the language and reading becomes easier to you, you start to realise that simplicity is maybe a better way to get the message across. Look at George Orwell - the language is not that complicated, but it's amazingly good writing. Equally, there's many lousy writers like me - lots of long words, huge sentences, but actually not saying a whole lot for the amount they write. I can type real fast, but that's because it takes me ages to say something. I suspect George Orwell could have done this post in about three short sentences and said as much.

Imagine somebody making a speech. Are you more impressed by the guy who can talk so fast that you get a headache trying to keep up, or is the guy who speaks slowly, precisely and clearly for the same amount of time and gets the same amount said doing the better job as an orator? Sure, having precise ability to execute the physical movements to get the words out is important. But who cares if the content is just gibberish, being delivered with virtuosic speed and power?

So for me, I'm not automatically impressed by chops anymore. I work on them, but the more I work on them the more I realise that getting better on that front is just a matter of putting in more work. Once your hand technique is good enough you can make a whole lot of improvements while you're half asleep and not really paying attention - you just keep running the drills. I don't feel as proud of my technical achievements as I do of my musical ones, on the rare occasion that something cool turns up. For every fill I've done with big tom rolls, I'm usually more impressed on playback with the time I just did the same fill with one hi-hat accent and a syncopation in the bass drum. So my perception of soloing and virtuosic playing has changed accordingly as I've matured on the instrument. I'm hardly a good musician yet, but if I want to get there then the path from where I am now is probably not more technique, it's more understanding of structure, time and tone and how to build something communicative with that. In comparison to that, chops is really pretty easy to work on.

That's why there's no Olympic gold medal in music. WFD is a sport; not "music".
........
.......
.......
................

The Grammies, you say????? Ah, that's a popular choice award (or so they'd have us believe), but drummers don't run in it.

[Swiss Matthias]

Well, good post from you, finnhiggins, and I pretty much agree. (Just saw it now from the quote) But I don't think it has too much to do with Virgil Donati. Yeah he's got blistering chops and technique, and he is a polyrhythmic/ -metric monster, BUT he certainly does make music! He has no problems playing a steady rock beat in 4/4, and he does play the right thing at the right time. He is kind of like a jazz drummer in rock and fusion IMO. He may be popular onlythrough his drum clinics and alien solos to many, but there is much more to him!
Plus his groove is easily recognizable to me. I remember someone writing something like "Virgil Donati minus all his chops is a normal and boring drummer, unrecognizable like thousands of players". In that sense. Which I disagree strongly.

Originally Posted by Swiss Matthias

Well, good post from you, finnhiggins, and I pretty much agree. (Just saw it now from the quote) But I don't think it has too much to do with Virgil Donati. Yeah he's got blistering chops and technique, and he is a polyrhythmic/ -metric monster, BUT he certainly does make music!

Matthias: This does not really have anything to do with this thread, but sadly, Finn Higgins passed away earlier this year. He probably was one of the most respected forum members due to his thought out and intelligent posts. You should definetely check out Finns post history, there is a ton of wisdom and knowledge to find.

What you said about Virgils groove abilitys - thats something that at least I don't really see. But that might be personal taste though.

[Swiss Matthias]

Oh, I didn't know, that's sad!! How old was he?

Well, it depends on what you mean with "groove". I meant, he has no problem keeping simple time, and playing easy and understandable stuff whilst being musical anyway.
But the "grooving" thing: I would never say Virgil doesn't groove or has no groove, but I perfectly understand some people don't dig his style. I myself have other favourite drummers who I love (among other things) because of their groove, like Gary Novak, Bill Stewart or Keith Carlock. Virgil really has that "machine-like" vibe to him actually, and his style, his "language" is quite a narrow path. There's so much one can play, a big huge world, and he does only a tiny little bit of it.
And maybe his time is almost too perfect sometimes...?
That being said, I'm still a fan of his playing.

[Morgenthaler]

Normally any official video would be posted on the virgildonati.com channel on YouTube for your viewing pleasure, but since this is a rather lenghty piece of footage, and I'd hate to cut more songs in half - than I have to, AND we haven't produced it ourselves, I just cut it into 3 pieces and uploaded it from my own video.google account.

Tina Arena clip 1:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...801788682473656

Tina Arena clip 2:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...802728905995369

Tina Arena clip 3:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...345735647359274

Enjoy.
__________________
Jeppe Morgenthaler
Virgildonati.com Moderator

[Swiss Matthias]

I'd like to quote the man himself here, think it fits quite well:

Modern Drummer (June 99): You spend hours every day practicing - don't you want to put it on display?
Virgil Donati: You know what? Not at all. I'm sure there are many people out there who have seen me play at clinics and thought, "Oh, he's a tech head." But I can guarantee you that there are people who have seen me on pop gigs who had no idea I can play the other thing. I can honestly say that I do not desire to play any more than the music requires.

And: "Technique is innocent. It doesn't know any better. It's how we use it that counts. That really comes down to the maturity, the understanding, and the ego of the individual."

Yeah!!

[Swiss Matthias]

Oh, and another one:

"That's an interesting point, that maybe I can't play outside of drum clinics. The thing is, I know I can. I'm not ashamed of saying that because I really didn't start doing many clinics until I moved here. Most of my career has been about playing with other musicians, getting out there on the road, in clubs, and in the studios. So I rest easy on that fact."
Virgil Donati

His clinics are jaw dropping. The power, speed and chops he displays make you want to go home and practice until your fingers cramp. He is operating on the highest plane of dextarity and skill.

[Green and Mean]

Virgil Donati is a Hero for me - his dedication is something what blows my mind.

[trysthedrummer]

A great inspiration to me, one I look upon. I know in myself I will never reach that level as I started when I was 12 (compared to him at about 3) but it gives me more determination everyday to practice. This goes for Gavin Harrison too, 2 of my favourite drummers, and very both different.

What got me into Donati was his extroadinary footwork, it's absolutely crazy what he can do overpla patterns with his hands on top.

This is one of my favourite bits I've found, doing inverted doubles with a great groove over it at 0:47

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I44OaOWYmQs

[Doug Masters]

Virgil is one of those guys who I could watch all day but can't listen to in the car. I just don't dig the whole prog thing like Planet X. That being said, his work on Soul Sirkus is great rock drumming.

Say what you want about him...he inspires me to practice and get better. Isn't that what its all about?